Buying a new Macbook for university

amymak

So I'm trying to decide between a Pro or one of the Airs for when I go to university in September.

I'm not really willing to go over €1300 in price.
I'll be using it for internet and word processing mainly, no gaming. (I don't know what type of software I'd be using as part of an engineering course though, does anyone know?)
Speed is probably the most important thing to me.

Macbook Pro 13" has the speed and storage (but I'd have to use the Serial ATA Drive) and it's got an optical drive.
Macbook Air 13" is the same price, lighter, slower and has flash storage. (I'd also have to buy a super drive for DVD's)
Macbook Air 11" is ultra small and I'd be able to afford to upgrade it to have either the 8GB, or to get i7.

What do you lot think?

Oh and also, should I get a sleeve, or should I get a Speck See-Thru case?

ronnie3585

I used a Macbook all through college and they're a fantastic machine.

Would you consider buying second hand from the Apple Refurb Store?

There are two nice models there at the moment - http://store.apple.com/ie/browse/home/specialdeals/mac/macbook_pro/13

I'm currently using a refurb 13" MBP and I have zero complaints. I got a high spec model which was about 10 months old with 20% off the retail price - and the machine gets a one year warranty from Apple.

When I was in college I used both a see through case and a neoprene sleeve, it's definitely saved the machine I was using then from dings and scratches.

Heard on the radio CompuB is opening up a new store in Dundrum. They are having a sale of 10% of all macs tomorrow. Might suit you.
http://compub.com/dundrum/

amymak

Well, I can't really afford both, so which of the two types would you see as being better?

I'll have a look at the refurbished ones, see if I can see one that I like. (Are they normally in really good condition?)

Sad Professor

I wouldn't recommend the 13-inch MBP. It's getting a bit long in the tooth. The screen isn't as good as the one in Air. Plus, it might be a little bulky for carrying around college. Apple are probably going to retire it soon enough.

Go for the Air. I have the 11-inch and think it's great. I don't even know it's in my bag. Main downside is the 16:9 screen and the reduced battery life. Decide which is more important to you.

amymak

Don't have an issue with the screen resolution or size. The reduced battery life is an issue though. Hmm, I was really leaning towards the 11". Now I'm not sure again.

Would go to Dundrum tomorrow, unfortunately I've got my physics exam on Monday and Applied Maths on Friday. Don't really have the time. Plus it would cost almost €50 for the train ride, and with everything else, it wouldn't wind up being much cheaper unfortunately.

Sad Professor

You can squeeze a bit more than 5 hours out of the 11-inch Air if you turn off WiFi and turn the brightness down to the lowest while taking lecture notes or whatever. I never had a problem with it myself.

caff

I would double check any software you might be using in your course works with a mac just in case ( might then add the cost of bootcamp and windows licence to the cost of your mac ) so drop an email to the course director or someone in 4th year of the course to find out.

amymak

Yeah, that's a good idea. I'll ask around.

macsauce

You're going to be using some modeling programs that require a good bit of RAM (my brother had to run 30 models in his final year and each one took about 8 - 10 hours) as well as cad and dynamics testing software. If 1300 is your limit i'd go for something like this:

http://www.jigsaw24.com/product-details/m457awa/apple-macbook-pro-13.3-dual-core-i5-2.4ghz-8gb-500gb-notebook-computer

I wouldn't be too concerned with the new line up of macs that are just out, i suspect you'll get better support from the university if you have an optical drive and the RAM isn't upgradable (neither is the battery replaceable). Jigsaw are excellent and they are open to negotiating on their list price.

yer man!

One of my friends went into engineering in first year and the college practically made all the students buy the lenovo thinkpad with cad and stuff already installed for €1300. Your course may pressure you to buy a specific laptop, just a point to consider.

conor.hogan.2

Any Mac is more than capable to run pretty much any Engineering/CS/SC software, even for no extra cost with Virtualbox.

amymak

I think I'm going to go with the Pro.
If I get it through campus.ie I can get it for €1160, so I'd be able to afford to get 8GB.
I'm going to go with the see-through case instead of the sleeve.

Bpmull

I'm also hoping to do engineering in september and I just bought a 13 inch MacBook pro the last of the old model got 10 percent of as currys had a deal a couple of weeks ago. I have no complaints with it it's a great laptop and looking forward to starting college in September with it. I think your making the right choice go for the MacBook pro if you don't mind the bit of extra weight size.

partyatmygaff

The Macbook Pro 13 lacks a dedicated graphics card, has fairly low screen resolution, only has a slow 5400RPM HDD and in short isn't the most ideal computer for running CAD software like Solidworks.

It will certainly run but considering the fact that you'll be taking a performance hit by running Windows in a virtual machine and will be progressing to more complex work as you go through your degree you'd want to get something with a bit more longevity.

Personally, staying in the Apple camp, i'd go for a 15" Macbook Pro. The money you save now will be spent later.

conor.hogan.2

You can always run it in Bootcamp if it does not work out in a VM. Plus isn't there CAD for macs now?

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

You can always run it in Bootcamp if it does not work out in a VM. Plus isn't there CAD for macs now?

Most mainstream CAD software only runs on Windows.

At that, the issue with the Macbook Pro 13 isn't with virtualisation. The issue is with the fact that it's completely unsuited to CAD. The low screen resolution and lack of dedicated graphics would make life hell on anything but the simplest and smallest of parts/assemblies. Sure, it may be suited for most of first year but there'll be hiccups and after that once things start becoming more complicated it'll probably become infuriating to use.

The better option in the long run is to get a decent MBP 15 or alternatively a high quality / high performance Windows laptop.

Ideally, you should be looking for a laptop that is/has:

• Powerful - Don't worry about RAM. RAM can almost always be upgraded. What you need to look out for is the CPU and GPU. Ideally, for CAD you'd want to aim for a minimum of a Sandy/Ivy Bridge quad core and a powerful GPU. In the Nvidia camp, i'd say a minimum of a GT540M but preferably a GT555M or better. In the ATI camp, i'd say a minimum of a 6750M or better.
• Good input/output devices - You'll be working a lot on this laptop and you need a good keyboard/touchpad and screen. For screen resolution, obviously the new Macbook w/ retina display comes out top but it may be a bit out of your price range. Being honest, a 1600x900 or 1920x1080 screen would be more than enough.
• Long battery life and reasonable weight
• Although not essential, a three year warranty would see you through most of your degree.

The Macbook Pro 15 meets almost all the requirements. That said, I think you could get a better laptop if you went for Windows laptop of the same price. The MPB 13 is a false economy. Integrated graphics not only isn't powerful enough for CAD/Solidworks, it's also prone to strange graphics artifacts unless you have a Xeon CPU (Which are almost impossible to find in laptops).

conor.hogan.2

AutoCad is for Macs afaik, anyway between Virtualization and Bootcamp there is zero difference between a mac and a "windows" laptop except the price and build quality.

OP go to a store if you can and test the 13" to see if it is big enough, I use it for everything and the screen is fine but others do have problems with it so it is worth checking out.

If it seems to small then either pay the extra for the 15" MBP or go with a "windows" laptop.

Dr.Sanchez

amymak wrote: »

I think I'm going to go with the Pro.
If I get it through campus.ie I can get it for €1160, so I'd be able to afford to get 8GB.
I'm going to go with the see-through case instead of the sleeve.

Did you go with the Pro in the end? Im in the same situation cept I've €2000 to blow so will probably get the base 13" and buy a 512GB SSD from Amazon...

Any recommendations people?

macsauce

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Most mainstream CAD software only runs on Windows.

At that, the issue with the Macbook Pro 13 isn't with virtualisation. The issue is with the fact that it's completely unsuited to CAD. The low screen resolution and lack of dedicated graphics would make life hell on anything but the simplest and smallest of parts/assemblies. Sure, it may be suited for most of first year but there'll be hiccups and after that once things start becoming more complicated it'll probably become infuriating to use.

The better option in the long run is to get a decent MBP 15 or alternatively a high quality / high performance Windows laptop.

Ideally, you should be looking for a laptop that is/has:

• Powerful - Don't worry about RAM. RAM can almost always be upgraded. What you need to look out for is the CPU and GPU. Ideally, for CAD you'd want to aim for a minimum of a Sandy/Ivy Bridge quad core and a powerful GPU. In the Nvidia camp, i'd say a minimum of a GT540M but preferably a GT555M or better. In the ATI camp, i'd say a minimum of a 6750M or better.
• Good input/output devices - You'll be working a lot on this laptop and you need a good keyboard/touchpad and screen. For screen resolution, obviously the new Macbook w/ retina display comes out top but it may be a bit out of your price range. Being honest, a 1600x900 or 1920x1080 screen would be more than enough.
• Long battery life and reasonable weight
• Although not essential, a three year warranty would see you through most of your degree.

The Macbook Pro 15 meets almost all the requirements. That said, I think you could get a better laptop if you went for Windows laptop of the same price. The MPB 13 is a false economy. Integrated graphics not only isn't powerful enough for CAD/Solidworks, it's also prone to strange graphics artifacts unless you have a Xeon CPU (Which are almost impossible to find in laptops).

Its sounds like you've been doing stuff on yours that most engineering undergrads wouldn't be needing but since i never actually studied engineering i am totally open to being corrected. All i can go on is the experience of my brother who did engineering in TCD and specialised in Mech (in third year i think) and got by just fine with a mid range VAIO. Im not sure a Quad core or a GPU is necessary and i dont think the OP would see the benefit of spending such a large some of money. Maybe if anyone has first hand experience of Eng?

amymak

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Most mainstream CAD software only runs on Windows.

At that, the issue with the Macbook Pro 13 isn't with virtualisation. The issue is with the fact that it's completely unsuited to CAD. The low screen resolution and lack of dedicated graphics would make life hell on anything but the simplest and smallest of parts/assemblies. Sure, it may be suited for most of first year but there'll be hiccups and after that once things start becoming more complicated it'll probably become infuriating to use.

The better option in the long run is to get a decent MBP 15 or alternatively a high quality / high performance Windows laptop.

Ideally, you should be looking for a laptop that is/has:

• Powerful - Don't worry about RAM. RAM can almost always be upgraded. What you need to look out for is the CPU and GPU. Ideally, for CAD you'd want to aim for a minimum of a Sandy/Ivy Bridge quad core and a powerful GPU. In the Nvidia camp, i'd say a minimum of a GT540M but preferably a GT555M or better. In the ATI camp, i'd say a minimum of a 6750M or better.
• Good input/output devices - You'll be working a lot on this laptop and you need a good keyboard/touchpad and screen. For screen resolution, obviously the new Macbook w/ retina display comes out top but it may be a bit out of your price range. Being honest, a 1600x900 or 1920x1080 screen would be more than enough.
• Long battery life and reasonable weight
• Although not essential, a three year warranty would see you through most of your degree.

The Macbook Pro 15 meets almost all the requirements. That said, I think you could get a better laptop if you went for Windows laptop of the same price. The MPB 13 is a false economy. Integrated graphics not only isn't powerful enough for CAD/Solidworks, it's also prone to strange graphics artifacts unless you have a Xeon CPU (Which are almost impossible to find in laptops).

Well that's kind of disappointing. I was really looking forward to getting a mac. However, if I'm going to have issues in the future, I suppose I'm better off going for a windows.
I can barely justify spending that much money on the 13", there's no way I can justify buying a 15". Plus I don't want to be going bigger than 13" for portability's sake.

conor.hogan.2

A Mac is as good if not better than a lot of "Windows" laptops even at running Windows.

If you can afford it, go for it.

OP there is lots of videos on youtube of it running fine in OSX and on Windows in virtual machines and bootcamp. The specs are also perfect according to autodesk themselves.

Stainless_Steel

I wouldn't be worried about the capability to run CAD software. I did my degree long before intel released sandy bridge and sure didn't I get by ok.

partyatmygaff

Stainless_Steel wrote: »

I wouldn't be worried about the capability to run CAD software. I did my degree long before intel released sandy bridge and sure didn't I get by ok.

A laptop that's "capable" of running CAD software is not the same as a laptop that can run CAD software fluently.

If you're buying a laptop for university and have a budget over €1000, it makes sense to invest your money in a laptop that does the job perfectly no matter how complex the task. Longevity is also another factor.

Your money is still in your wallet so you don't need to make any compromises.

conor.hogan.2

All the youtube videos show auto-cad running perfectly in OSX, virtualized and through bootcamp.

They do not show it barely running, they show it running fine and even switching between other apps fine too.

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

All the youtube videos show auto-cad running perfectly in OSX, virtualized and through bootcamp.

They do not show it barely running, they show it running fine and even switching between other apps fine too.

Have you even read my posts?

I'm not talking about OSX and Windows, i'm talking about hardware. The MBP 13 as a laptop is far from ideal for CAD/Solidworks. The MBP 15's hardware is ideal but is out of the OP's budget.

conor.hogan.2

The hardware used in the videos is MBP hardware, obviously, I thought that would go without mentioning but apparently not.

OP go with the 13" MBP if you can afford it, there is good deals on the refurb store too to check out. They are plenty capable enough to run cad. (just google it to see and not trust one person on a forum)

Colonel Panic

Unless that person is me...

areyawell

Dont buy a 11 inch or 13 inch Macbook for an engineering course. The screen is far too small. Ever see the size of the screens on a netbook? Contact the course leader and see what laptop would be suitbale for your budget. I'd recommend a 15 inch laptop i5 with 8gb of ram running Windows seven. Can get this for around 800. If your keen on a mac get at least at 15 inch. Anthing smaller will drive you cracked.

conor.hogan.2

Colonel Panic wrote: »

Unless that person is me...

Telling someone to google is better than telling them "it is not powerful enough". (despite autodesk and 1-2 people with first hand experience saying otherwise)

On a kind of separate point i wish apple sold 13-17-17 on all "lines" of their laptops for a small price increase instead of just selling 15" on the pricier line with more bells and whistles which likely wont be needed for most people.

K.O.Kiki

partyatmygaff wrote: »

The Macbook Pro 13 lacks a dedicated graphics card, has fairly low screen resolution, only has a slow 5400RPM HDD and in short isn't the most ideal computer for running CAD software like Solidworks.

It will certainly run but considering the fact that you'll be taking a performance hit by running Windows in a virtual machine and will be progressing to more complex work as you go through your degree you'd want to get something with a bit more longevity.

Personally, staying in the Apple camp, i'd go for a 15" Macbook Pro. The money you save now will be spent later.

ArsTechnica: 13" MBP vs 13" MBA (how did no-one link this yet?)

Also:

ArsTechnica wrote:

This round is tougher. The Air is equipped with a much higher resolution 1440×900 pixel display, giving users more screen real estate. The LED backlighting is bright, and the screen is sharp.

The Pro comes with a noticeably lower resolution screen, with just 1280×800 pixels. But in its favor, the screen does have a significantly wider color gamut and dynamic range. For general applications, this won't matter much, but for color-critical work (like photography, graphics, and video) it will be highly advantageous.

Given that some users will weigh the importance of color accuracy over screen real estate differently, we're going to call this round a draw. But the difference is something to keep in mind when making your own choice.

@OP
You can get a refurb 15" MBP for just over your original budget; I would suggest this as the route to go through.
And install Windows in BootCamp if you want to run serious applications.

amymak

Are you absolutely certain that 15" is necessary?

It's just that portability is a major issue.

I'll be lugging it from Sligo to Dublin and back every week. Plus I won't be living on campus so I'll be carrying it around with me everywhere.

Colonel Panic

Just get the 13" Air! But try to stretch to the 8GB model.

Bpmull

I bought the 13 inch pro for college in September as for the same reason as you portability. It is nice and compact. Sure it may not run cad as fast it should be ok I think even the 13 inch is capable of running cad. In our school we have 20 off the cheapest dell laptops money
Can buy 1 gb ram and they definately don't have a dedicated graphics card and they all run cad fine I have used them plenty of times. Dont buy a 15 inch for the sake of speed and then regret having to carry it everywhere if 13 inch MacBook pro suits you go for it. I have no regrets with mine.

K.O.Kiki

amymak wrote: »

Are you absolutely certain that 15" is necessary?

It's just that portability is a major issue.

I'll be lugging it from Sligo to Dublin and back every week. Plus I won't be living on campus so I'll be carrying it around with me everywhere.

Good point.

Might want to go for a MBA then.

conor.hogan.2

The 13" pro is a compromise of power and portability I used it all throughout 4 years of college and carried it all around college and 1.5-2 hour 2 bus commute with no problems.

The Air should run cad just fine too though. I do not think the 13" inch air is a good buy unless you find the pro too heavy.

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

The hardware used in the videos is MBP hardware, obviously, I thought that would go without mentioning but apparently not.

OP go with the 13" MBP if you can afford it, there is good deals on the refurb store too to check out. They are plenty capable enough to run cad. (just google it to see and not trust one person on a forum)

Again, forgive me but did you even bother reading what I wrote?

Pay close attention. I'm not saying what you seem to think i'm saying.

To repeat myself, the MBP 13 isn't suitable. The MBP 15 is suitable. The 13" is "capable" of running CAD but when you haven't spent a cent yet you shouldn't compromise for something that's just "capable" of running the software you need.

K.O.Kiki wrote: »

ArsTechnica: 13" MBP vs 13" MBA (how did no-one link this yet?)
Neither laptop is suitable. The screen is too small, the screen resolution is too low and most importantly both lack a dedicated GPU.

An MBP 15 is really the lowest laptop in Apple's range that's actually well-suited to CAD. Any less and you're running in to "just capable" territory.

Dr.Sanchez

partyatmygaff wrote: »

An MBP 15 is really the lowest laptop in Apple's range that's actually well-suited to CAD. Any less and you're running in to "just capable" territory.

It either CAN run it or it CAN'T. Simple as!!

conor.hogan.2

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Any less and you're running in to "just capable" territory.

I don't really trust you over other posters and several reviews. You can think the 15" is better but to say the 13" is "just capable" of running CAD is really really disingenuous.

OP if you think the 13" is too small after trying it in store to see then try to get a 15" on the refurb on Apples site.

Posters have even mentioned the Air, the MBP is more than capable.

AlmightyCushion

Dr.Sanchez wrote: »

It either CAN run it or it CAN'T. Simple as!!

There is a difference between being able to run it and being able to run it well. With something like CAD it also depends on what you are doing with it. A laptop capable of doing 2D and light 3D work could struggle on more complex 3D stuff. The 13" MacBook Pro can definitely run it but it would struggle when it comes to more complex stuff and this is where the dedicated card would shine.

@Anymak - I would recommend going with a laptop that has a fairly good dedicated card. At 3D work it will perform much better than the integrated graphics of the 13" MacBook Pro. The last thing you want to do is spend €1200 on a laptop that doesn't cut the mustard for you and start kicking yourself for getting the wrong thing.

conor.hogan.2

http://store.apple.com/ie/product/FC721B/A

for 20/90 euro more than the 13" if you want to play it safe OP.

partyatmygaff

Dr.Sanchez wrote: »

It either CAN run it or it CAN'T. Simple as!!

There's a big difference between "can run" and "can run it well".

amymak

How about this laptop?

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/cart.workflow:ShowCart

Would this be adequate? (Expand the configuration details)

partyatmygaff

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

I don't really trust you over other posters and several reviews. You can think the 15" is better but to say the 13" is "just capable" of running CAD is really really disingenuous.

OP if you think the 13" is too small after trying it in store to see then try to get a 15" on the refurb on Apples site.

Posters have even mentioned the Air, the MBP is more than capable.

Look, it's very simple. When it comes to CAD or gaming, the more powerful your GPU the better. A HD4000 *can* run most games and simple CAD parts/assemblies.

When you're investing over €1000 in a laptop for college, it makes sense to get a laptop with no compromises in performance.

partyatmygaff

amymak wrote: »

How about this laptop?

http://shop.lenovo.com/SEUILibrary/controller/e/web/LenovoPortal/en_US/cart.workflow:ShowCart

Would this be adequate? (Expand the configuration details)

We can't see what's stored in your cart, you'll have to copy it in to a post.

But if you want a Windows laptop, the closest to the MBP 15 in spec and quality is the Samsung Series 7 Chronos (with 6750m). It costs around €1000.

amymak

ThinkPad T430 - 1 Year Depot Topseller Warranty $1,664.00
Part number: 2342CTO
Edit configuration | Remove | Add to wishlist
Estimated ship date: 6/25/12**
+/- Configuration details
• Intel Core i7-3520M Processor (4M Cache, up to 3.60 GHz)
• Genuine Windows 7 Professional (64 bit)
• 14.0" HD+ (1600 x 900) LED Backlit AntiGlare Display, Mobile Broadband Ready
• NVIDIA NVS 5400M Graphics with Optimus Technology, 1GB DDR3 Memory
• 8 GB PC3-12800 DDR3 (2 DIMM)
• UltraNav without Fingerprint Reader
• 320GB Hard Disk Drive, 7200rpm
• DVD Recordable
• 9 Cell Li-Ion TWL 70++
• None
• ThinkPad 1x1 b/g/n
• Mobile Broadband upgradable
• 1 Year Depot/Express Warranty

So how is this one?

(Oh by the way, it's 14" and 4.7 pounds.)

Colonel Panic

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Look, it's very simple. When it comes to CAD or gaming, the more powerful your GPU the better. A HD4000 *can* run most games and simple CAD parts/assemblies.

When you're investing over €1000 in a laptop for college, it makes sense to get a laptop with no compromises in performance.

At the expense of portability? Dunno about that...

conor.hogan.2

portability, durability, longevity.

Plus I do not buy that the 13" would struggle to run CAD, and anyway you can get a refurb 15" for only slightly more money.

http://store.apple.com/ie/browse/home/specialdeals/mac

K.O.Kiki

amymak wrote: »

[...]

So how is this one?

(Oh by the way, it's 14" and 4.7 pounds.)

Well... it's not a Mac

Also, you appear to be on the USA site.
Don't order a laptop from a US site unless you like dealing with the tax-man!

conor.hogan.2

partyatmygaff wrote: »

But if you want a Windows laptop, the closest to the MBP 15 in spec and quality is the Samsung Series 7 Chronos (with 6750m). It costs around €1000.

Where did you buy it for 1000 euro?

AlmightyCushion

conor.hogan.2 wrote: »

partyatmygaff wrote: »

But if you want a Windows laptop, the closest to the MBP 15 in spec and quality is the Samsung Series 7 Chronos (with 6750m). It costs around €1000.

Where did you buy it for 1000 euro?

Well I got my series 7 for 1040 euro from Amazon. The vatback promotion should give me back about 200. So about 850 euro in total which is a bargain.