Car tax and doing a runner

Immaculata

I'm heading off on the ferry in the last week of July to England and Europe, partly for a holiday and partly to look for work in England. I don't know when I'll be back - I hope to be away at least a couple of months and quite possibly until Christmas, when I'll definitely be back in Ireland. My car insurance runs out soon and obviously I'm renewing it. My car tax runs out at the end of July. It's over 600 euro so it would be great if I can avoid it without getting into difficulties with the law or my insurance company. Can I avoid taxing it for the duration of my trip? It is okay to leave taxing the car until I get back?

hondasam

You don't need to tax it because it will be off the road. When you get back you will get the form stamped at a garda station and you will not have to back tax it.

You bringing the car with you? I might have misunderstood your post.

maca1985

I take it that you mean you are bringing the car to England with you?
As far as I'm aware you don't need to tax it as it won't be on Irish roads during that time although I am not 100% certain on this.
One thing to double check is that your insurance covers you. Most policies cover you for 30 days outside of Ireland so may not cover you for such a large period of time over in the UK.

hondasam

maca1985 wrote: »

I take it that you mean you are bringing the car to England with you?
As far as I'm aware you don't need to tax it as it won't be on Irish roads during that time although I am not 100% certain on this.
One thing to double check is that your insurance covers you. Most policies cover you for 30 days outside of Ireland so may not cover you for such a large period of time over in the UK.

I would not bring my car to the UK with no tax on it.

maca1985

hondasam wrote: »

I would not bring my car to the UK with no tax on it.

From the bit of searching I have done, UK law seems to be that a foreign vehicle can drive on Uk roads for a max of 6mths without changing it over or taxing it on English roads. So if the car is only going to be there for a few months then there's no problem there.
Plus, it will be still in Irish tax when leaving Ireland so as long as you declare that it has been off Irish roads when you get back and tax it from the day you return, I think you're covered.

hondasam

maca1985 wrote: »

From the bit of searching I have done, UK law seems to be that a foreign vehicle can drive on Uk roads for a max of 6mths without changing it over or taxing it on English roads. So if the car is only going to be there for a few months then there's no problem there.
Plus, it will be still in Irish tax when leaving Ireland so as long as you declare that it has been off Irish roads when you get back and tax it from the day you return, I think you're covered.

I think it's supposed to be taxed in your own country, not sure about that.
How can you do this when it is not off the road? that would be a false declaration.

Immaculata

hondasam wrote: »

You don't need to tax it because it will be off the road. When you get back you will get the form stamped at a garda station and you will not have to back tax it.

You bringing the car with you? I might have misunderstood your post.

I am bringing the car with me, sorry I didn't say that originally. I'm bringing a tent too, to save money on hostels.

I will keep the ferry tickets etc and go to the Gardai station on my return. Thanks.

Immaculata

maca1985 wrote: »

I take it that you mean you are bringing the car to England with you?
As far as I'm aware you don't need to tax it as it won't be on Irish roads during that time although I am not 100% certain on this.
One thing to double check is that your insurance covers you. Most policies cover you for 30 days outside of Ireland so may not cover you for such a large period of time over in the UK.

Good point! I will check about the insurance. Thank you.

hondasam

Immaculata wrote: »

I am bringing the car with me, sorry I didn't say that originally. I'm bringing a tent too, to save money on hostels.

I will keep the ferry tickets etc and go to the Gardai station on my return. Thanks.

I'm not sure a guard will sign it when you say the car was on the road.

Immaculata

hondasam wrote: »

I would not bring my car to the UK with no tax on it.

Why?

It will have tax on it until the end of July and I'm leaving Ireland on or around the 28th.

maca1985

hondasam wrote: »

I'm not sure a guard will sign it when you say the car was on the road.

I can see your point but my interpretation would be that it's Irish road tax that we pay and that it has been off Irish Roads for the time when it's out of the country.

Yakuza

As I understand things, if being driven in the EU, a car has to be road legal for its home country (including having valid tax and insurance, NCT etc), otherwise it can be subject to the penalties of a non road-legal car in whatever country it's in.

hondasam

Immaculata wrote: »

Why?

It will have tax on it until the end of July and I'm leaving Ireland on or around the 28th.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=foreign%20cars%20tax%20uk&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CHkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.direct.gov.uk%2Fen%2FMotoring%2FBuyingAndSellingAVehicle%2FImportingAndExportingAVehicle%2FDG_10014623&ei=mknbT-rLFdON0wW8vuzCCg&usg=AFQjCNEFvgGq57YkeTpTCvjxpjPzDfKVJA

biko

I don't see an issue but then I'm not a lawyer.
If car isn't taxed here and also not present in country it'll be fine from our POV.

Make sure insurance covers the timespan - as said, because if you have a collision an Irish company will cover it. Just in case, you might want to read up on the T&C for the insurance, do they mention tax?
Once you return, declare off the road and start paying tax again.

Ok hondasam was right

During this time the vehicle can travel displaying the non-UK plates but only provided the vehicle is still fully registered and tax paid, in the country it came from (the driver’s home country).

slimjimmc

Immaculata wrote: »

Why?

It will have tax on it until the end of July and I'm leaving Ireland on or around the 28th.

Because there are numerous reports of the PSNI and GB police forces not looking kindly on untaxed foreign cars because they do not comply with the legal requirements of their home country. While you may be heading out fully taxed you intend coming back untaxed.

leeroybrown

Immaculata wrote: »

Why?

It will have tax on it until the end of July and I'm leaving Ireland on or around the 28th.

Driving without tax in the UK is not like here. If you're found to be driving without tax in the UK they'll impound the car on the side of the road and leave you to walk wherever you're going. The most likely place to run into a tax/insurance check is on a road leading to a ferry port. Pay the tax.

maca1985

hondasam wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=foreign%20cars%20tax%20uk&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CHkQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.direct.gov.uk%2Fen%2FMotoring%2FBuyingAndSellingAVehicle%2FImportingAndExportingAVehicle%2FDG_10014623&ei=mknbT-rLFdON0wW8vuzCCg&usg=AFQjCNEFvgGq57YkeTpTCvjxpjPzDfKVJA

I stand corrected. Hondasam is right. It has to be taxed in the country of origin. You learn something new every day

Green Diesel

People have been done for this up north.

http://www.derryjournal.com/news/local/rage-as-donegal-drivers-targeted-by-car-tax-clampers-1-2142615

hondasam

biko wrote: »

Ok hondasam was right

maca1985 wrote: »

I stand corrected. Hondasam is right. It has to be taxed in the country of origin. You learn something new every day

Ah thanks guys, ye have made my day.

I'm still not sure a guard will sign the declaration form.

Henry Ford III

Pay the tax. It's not optional.

CarrickMcJoe

Brother took car to England untaxed, was followed by cops at 5am, (he was on night shift). Eventually stopped him and said the reason they tailed him for so long was that their systems dont have info on Irish cars.

Checked insurance details, and had a crack with him about the job etc and let him on his way. Didn't even look at disc and hes still there 12 months later.

hondasam

CarrickMcJoe wrote: »

Brother took car to England untaxed, was followed by cops at 5am, (he was on night shift). Eventually stopped him and said the reason they tailed him for so long was that their systems dont have info on Irish cars.

Checked insurance details, and had a crack with him about the job etc and let him on his way. Didn't even look at disc and hes still there 12 months later.

Is he insuring it in the UK or Ireland? how did they check his insurance?

CarrickMcJoe

They asked him for it.

Its insured in Ireland.

Foreign reg coming from site in the early hours caught their eye.

hondasam

Where is he insuring it?

CarrickMcJoe

Here, he flies home every week as he does 12 hour shifts. Uses car to travel to and from work.

Seweryn

leeroybrown wrote: »

Driving without tax in the UK is not like here. If you're found to be driving without tax in the UK they'll impound the car on the side of the road and leave you to walk wherever you're going. The most likely place to run into a tax/insurance check is on a road leading to a ferry port. Pay the tax.

Do they assume that drivers in every country pay motor tax? What about visitors that come from countries where there is no road/motor tax and no one ever heard about "discs" on the windscreen?

leeroybrown

Seweryn wrote: »

Do they assume that drivers in every country pay motor tax? What about visitors that come from countries where there is no road/motor tax and no one ever heard about "discs" on the windscreen?

They may well be unaware of customs in some far flung countries but if someone from Ireland meets a Heddlu checkpoint outside Hollyhead they probably even know the tax disc expiry by colour code.

corktina

leeroybrown wrote: »

They may well be unaware of customs in some far flung countries but if someone from Ireland meets a Heddlu checkpoint outside Hollyhead they probably even know the tax disc expiry by colour code.

absolutley spot on. They'll have it off you in a second given the chance and you'll have to jump through hoops to get it back.

Jesus Shaves

corktina wrote: »

absolutley spot on. They'll have it off you in a second given the chance and you'll have to jump through hoops to get it back.

Yeah, I hear they light the hoops on fire too.

GoodisonPark

Have been stopped many times at a checkpoint on the A5 outside Holyhead by the North Wales Constabulary , always asked for licence and insurance cert and they check the tax disc. They are always very polite and courtious and explain that as my vehicle was not recognised on their system they needed to check my documentation.

mathepac

biko wrote: »

I don't see an issue but then I'm not a lawyer.
If car isn't taxed here and also not present in country it'll be fine from our POV.... Once you return, declare off the road and start paying tax again...

Maybe I'm reading this wrong and if I am I apologise in advance, but is a Moderater in Motors advocating an illegal course of action by a poster? Lying, signing a false declaration and fraud?

hondasam

mathepac wrote: »

Maybe I'm reading this wrong and if I am I apologise in advance, but is a Moderater in Motors advocating an illegal course of action by a poster? Lying, signing a false declaration and fraud?

Biko is not a moderator in the motoring forum.

ABajaninCork

UK police ARE pretty hot on chasing untaxed cars. I've noticed this in Wales (probably because of the ferry routes) as well as London. It's simply not worth the risk and might invalidate the insurance if anything were to happen.

Why not tax the car for six months OP? That way, you've got the tax, but haven't had to lash out E600...

General consensus is that you must Tax the car and talk to your insurance company about the extended stay in the UK/EU.
No point in taking unnecessary risks.

mathepac

Deleted User wrote: »

General consensus is that you must Tax the car and talk to your insurance company about the extended stay in the UK/EU.
...

These are legal requirements, opinion on boards.ie has no bearing on the matter

Deleted User wrote: »

...No point in taking unnecessary risks.

Plus there's lot to be said for complying with the road traffic law at home and in the EU/UK.

aphex™

My sister had her car crushed (into a cube) for having out of date Irish car tax in UK (i.e. no car tax at all).

She had parked it on the street in a residential area.

Our man in Havana

Insurance companies must provide the minimum 3rd party cover throughout the EU for the full duration of the policy. They cannot get out of this requirement.

CiniO

mathepac wrote: »

Maybe I'm reading this wrong and if I am I apologise in advance, but is a Moderater in Motors advocating an illegal course of action by a poster? Lying, signing a false declaration and fraud?

No lying or signing false declarations here.
Irish regulation require vehicles to be taxed if they are used on public roads in Ireland.
If you are signing declaration that car was not used in public place in some time period, that applies to public places in Ireland.

So in OP's case if his tax expires on end of July, and then he is returning to Ireland in December, there is nothing illegal for him to sign a declaration that car was not used in public place between August and November.

CiniO

In relation to Irish motortax in UK, indeed there is government website (link was already provided) stating that foreign cars must be fully registered and tax paid - whatever they mean by it.
But no one ever was able to find any UK legislation confirming this fact. I was looking myself once or twice and spend good bit of time doing this - still no joy finding anything.

So in general situation about motortax in UK is unclear.
I chanced it, and traveled all the way through UK without tax. I wasn't stopped anywhere and didn't have any bother because of this.
UK was only way out to the continent where I've been driving without Irish motortax for months, were stopped by police in different countries, and never ever asked about it, as there are no regulation requiring it.

I would love though to see UK legislation clarifying this matter in UK.

PS. What's funny here, I found Irish legislation requiring foreign vehicles to be taxed in home country when driving in Ireland. So theoretically Irish Garda could impound UK vehicle if found driving on Irish roads untaxed.

mathepac

mathepac wrote: »

Deleted User wrote: »

General consensus is that you must Tax the car and talk to your insurance company about the extended stay in the UK/EU.
...

These are legal requirements, opinion on boards.ie has no bearing on the matter

So you can provide links to the relevant legislation then?

mathepac

CiniO wrote: »

...
I chanced it, and traveled all the way through UK without tax. I wasn't stopped anywhere and didn't have any bother because of this.
UK was only way out to the continent where I've been driving without Irish motortax for months, were stopped by police in different countries, ...

As I've said a few times before, lack of detection and/or lack of enforcement does not mean the activity defaults to legal.

CiniO wrote: »

No lying or signing false declarations here.
Irish regulation require vehicles to be taxed if they are used on public roads in Ireland. ...

So you think it's legal for an Irish owned/registered car to drive in the UK with no Irish motor-tax paid?

Advocating §other posters to lie, sign false declarations and commit fraud should not be encouraged on boards.ie

Deleted User wrote: »

So you can provide links to the relevant legislation then?

Read previous post(s) in the thread - vehicle crushed.

CiniO

mathepac wrote: »

As I've said a few times before, lack of detection and/or lack of enforcement does not mean the activity defaults to legal.

I never said it was legal in UK. I just don't know as I can't find appropriate legislation.
I'm sure though, that on the Continent there isn't a requirement for valid motortax on foreign vehicles, as traffic of foreign vehicles is governed by Convention of road traffic from Vienna from 1968, which doesn't mention anything about vehicle taxation.

So you think it's legal for an Irish owned/registered car to drive in the UK with no Irish motor-tax paid?

It's legal according to Irish law, and I quoted appropriate legislation in some other thread about it some time ago.
I don't know if it's legal according to UK law though.

Advocating §other posters to lie, sign false declarations and commit fraud should not be encouraged on boards.ie

And it isn't.
As I said above. By making a declaration on RF100a form about nonuse period, you declare about car usage on public placed in Ireland. Whether car was parked in the garage, or used in foreign country in the mean time, is no relevant in here.

Read previous post(s) in the thread - vehicle crushed.

That's really hard to believe that car got crushed, just because it was parked without displaying valid Irish tax.
I personally can't believe that was the only reason.

hondasam

CiniO wrote: »

And it isn't.
As I said above. By making a declaration on RF100a form about nonuse period, you declare about car usage on public placed in Ireland. Whether car was parked in the garage, or used in foreign country in the mean time, is no relevant in here.

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=non%20use%20of%20car%20ireland&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CHkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.environ.ie%2Fen%2FLocalGovernment%2FMotorTax%2FPublicationsDocuments%2FFileDownLoad%2C489%2Cen.pdf&ei=8KDbT7rVJcWJhQfKp8ChCg&usg=AFQjCNEnX3KcL2jwcaehWKAgcXS8MT4UAQ

It only says a public place it does not say Ireland.

Our man in Havana

hondasam wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=non%20use%20of%20car%20ireland&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CHkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.environ.ie%2Fen%2FLocalGovernment%2FMotorTax%2FPublicationsDocuments%2FFileDownLoad%2C489%2Cen.pdf&ei=8KDbT7rVJcWJhQfKp8ChCg&usg=AFQjCNEnX3KcL2jwcaehWKAgcXS8MT4UAQ

It only says a public place it does not say Ireland.

The Irish government has no jurisdiction over anywhere abroad.

fullstop

Immaculata wrote: »

Why?

It will have tax on it until the end of July and I'm leaving Ireland on or around the 28th.

Neighbour of mine was clamped less than a mile from the border in an Asda carpark (Irish reg car) for not displaying valid tax. £150. By all means go for it, but you can't guarantee you'll get away with it and if you're involved in an accident the **** could hit the fan.

CiniO

hondasam wrote: »

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=non%20use%20of%20car%20ireland&source=web&cd=3&ved=0CHkQFjAC&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.environ.ie%2Fen%2FLocalGovernment%2FMotorTax%2FPublicationsDocuments%2FFileDownLoad%2C489%2Cen.pdf&ei=8KDbT7rVJcWJhQfKp8ChCg&usg=AFQjCNEnX3KcL2jwcaehWKAgcXS8MT4UAQ

It only says a public place it does not say Ireland.

But "public place" is defined in Law.

Road Traffic Act 1961

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

As Our man in Havana already mentioned, it's Irish law, and it refers to Ireland.
If you are making a declaration stating that vehicle was not used in public place, then it refers to public place in Ireland.

PS. Funny, not really relevant to the subject, but related thing here is, that Irish Law only requires vehicles to be taxed if used on "public roads". However if you want to not backpay tax for non-use period, you have to declare that vehicles was not used in "public place".
Those two terms differ.

“public place” means any street, road or other place to which the public have access with vehicles whether as of right or by permission and whether subject to or free of charge;

“public road” means a road the responsibility for the maintenance of which lies on a road authority;

So in short, if vehicle was not used on public roads, but was used on public places (i know it's unlikely but possible), then owner was not legally required to have it taxed, but even though if he wants to tax it again after period of no-tax, he can't as he has to delcare it was not used on public place, which would be not true, and therefore false declaration.

To make everything right, RF100a form should read something like "I declare vehicle was not used on public roads"... not as currently "on public place"·...

Lemming

Source

DVLA wrote:

Visitors coming to the UK that don’t intend living here can usually use a vehicle displaying foreign (non-UK) number plates for up to six months in a 12 month period. This can be one single or several shorter visits, adding up to a six month period. During this time the vehicle can travel displaying the non-UK plates but only provided the vehicle is still fully registered and tax paid, in the country it came from (the driver’s home country).

Bold Emphasis is mine.


End of stupid thread with even more stupid suggestions of driving a car untaxed. OP, do so at your own risk but as already mentioned, UK police do not p*ss about. There's none of this allowing you to drive off home like a little rascal. You will say goodbye to your car, a wedge of money, and a lot of your time if/when caught, and speaking from experience; foreign reg cars stick out a mile over here.

Henry Ford III

If an Irish reg'd car is being driven abroad, it must have up to date tax and insurance.

How anyone could believe or advocate otherwise is ludicrous.

Lemming

Henry Ford III wrote: »

If an Irish reg'd car is being driven abroad, it must have up to date tax and insurance.

How anyone could believe or advocate otherwise is ludicrous.

Not to mention I'm fairly certain the T&C for insurance companies will also have a footnote about a car being road-legal to qualify for cover.

Our man in Havana

Again rubbish.

CiniO

Lemming wrote: »

Not to mention I'm fairly certain the T&C for insurance companies will also have a footnote about a car being road-legal to qualify for cover.

Nothing like that in Allianz or Aviva.
I've been with both, and checked that.