Your internet content will be recorded.

Capt'n Midnight

Since most of our ISP's are UK owned and most of our traffic to Europe goes via the UK this may be of interest. Many "Irish" ISP's can and do route internal Irish traffic through equipment based in the UK.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/06/14/web_super_snoop_law_ccdp_theresa_may/

Home Secretary Theresa May confirmed this morning that under existing UK laws her department receives half a million requests to intercept communications data in the country every year. Later today, the Home Office will unveil its plans to greatly increase the amount of internet communications information kept on file in the UK, which will grant the police, spooks and the taxman - among others - the power to access such comms information.

Those authorities will be able to monitor internet traffic of everyone in Blighty (or whose communications pass through) to see who's contacting whom and when - and all of this can be done without the need for a warrant, according to the upcoming draft bill that the Home Secretary will release later today.

However if the security services or other appropriate parties wish to monitor the actual content of email or other communication over the internet, a warrant from a judge would be required.

The burden of retaining such data will be handed to internet service providers, who will be forced to log every website visit, as well as any access made by its customers to email accounts, Facebook and difficult-to-tap tech like peer-to-peer communications such as Skype for a minimum of 12 months.

ISPs will, according to the Guardian, be handed a "blank cheque" from the Home Office, which has insisted that the cost to the taxpayer will be substantially less than the previous Labour government's abandoned £2bn Interception Modernisation Programme (IMP).

seamus

So they'll have to log the point-to-point information (i.e. who is accessing and the address that they're accessing), but actual content requires a legal warrant.

In reality this isn't that much different from telephony where service providers already log the details of your call, but if they want to monitor the content, they require a warrant.

biko

I don't need that to know what you guys are browsing for*



*from exhaustive research you see

Shryke

Tor.

kippy

Shryke wrote: »

Tor.

Why would you use that, wouldn't it be a very big sign saying "Investigate me further"
?

danniemcq

use a neighbours unprotected wifi

christmas2012

Will they bring that bill into ireland anytime soon do you think?

Best username ever

The mobile carriers here keep every text you send for 5 years I think

Biggins

kippy wrote: »

Why would you use that, wouldn't it be a very big sign saying "Investigate me further"
?

The server sees a different I.P. address, not the fact that you might be using tor.
There is a misunderstanding over the use of it.

There is a server in Dublin that the government maintains that now records all data flow for two years anyway.
it has been up and running storing this information for over a year and a half not at least.

Scioch

kippy wrote: »

Why would you use that, wouldn't it be a very big sign saying "Investigate me further"
?

Investigate who further ? :cool:

puffishoes

kippy wrote: »

Why would you use that, wouldn't it be a very big sign saying "Investigate me further"
?

If they decide to investigate every bit of encrypted traffic they could spend a very long time chasing OAP's to betfair.

I would imagine if they're not requested for specific users data they won't be looking at it. Have you any idea how much it costs to hire a security analyst to sit down 24/7 to watch traffic? have you any idea how many you would require to do this for the uk and ireland?

The ISP would be out of buisness tomorrow. ISP's don't really give two hoots what you're doing as long as you pay your bill. the same way meteor or vodafone don't care if your using their phone services to plot blowing up obama as long as you pay your bill.

Scioch

puffishoes wrote: »

If they decide to investigate every bit of encrypted traffic they could spend a very long time chasing OAP's to betfair.

I would imagine if they're not requested for specific users data they won't be looking at it. Have you any idea how much it costs to hire a security analyst to sit down 24/7 to watch traffic? have you any idea how many you would require to do this for the uk and ireland?

The ISP would be out of buisness tomorrow. ISP's don't really give two hoots what you're doing as long as you pay your bill. the same way meteor or vodafone don't care if your using their phone services to plot blowing up obama as long as you pay your bill.

Thought I read somewhere though that the Home Office would be footing the bill not ISP's.

puffishoes

Biggins wrote: »

The server sees a different I.P. address, not the fact that you might be using tor.
There is a misunderstanding over the use of it.

There is a server in Dublin that the government maintains that now records all data flow for five years anyway.
it has been up and running storing this information for over a year and a half not at least.

it does? what does it monitor? router's in inex? sounds a bit like BS to me. very costly and difficult to setup.

considering they can't link the SW with for example the death's and marriges offices etc etc the above would seem very unlikley and almost impossible

puffishoes

LordSmeg wrote: »

Thought I read somewhere though that the Home Office would be footing the bill not ISP's.

foot the bill of what?

a few million CSO's on anything from 60-100k?

The renting purchasing of buildings to house the CSO's?

Considering they won't hire a nurse, it's not likely.

Bad Panda

Best username ever wrote: »

The mobile carriers here keep every text you send for 5 years I think

Ha! That's a complete bull!!

That means they'd collectively be storing 500 billion texts! Go back to bed!

nelly17

Would they not need to set up Deep Packet Inspection devices independantly of whats allready set up as current ISP infristructure is not designed to monitor but just to pass traffic.

There would be a massive cost to this - And the storage of all this data on a massive scale.

Scioch

puffishoes wrote: »

foot the bill of what?

a few million CSO's on anything from 60-100k?

The renting purchasing of buildings to house the CSO's?

Considering they won't hire a nurse, it's not likely.

The cost of any investigation. The ISP's wont be shouldering the cost so they will comply with whatever the Home Office wants. Yeah they wont be monitoring everyone 24/7 but not because it will bankrupt the ISP's.

puffishoes

LordSmeg wrote: »

The cost of any investigation. The ISP's wont be shouldering the cost so they will comply with whatever the Home Office wants. Yeah they wont be monitoring everyone 24/7 but not because it will bankrupt the ISP's.

for individual investigation yes there's little or no cost. my point was about the monitoring. As I said if they won't pay that much for a nurse there not going to pay it for PFY to sit there. pointless exercise.

I was expecting to see rtdh as the OP

Doylers

Bad Panda wrote: »

Ha! That's a complete bull!!

That means they'd collectively be storing 500 billion texts! Go back to bed!

And thats just the texts I send, mind boggling

Biggins

puffishoes wrote: »

it does? what does it monitor? router's in inex? sounds a bit like BS to me. very costly and difficult to setup.

considering they can't link the SW with for example the death's and marriges offices etc etc the above would seem very unlikley and almost impossible

From 2008 (long article for those interested):

By the end of March 2008, the Irish Government will begin mass digital surveillance, noting when we log on and log off the internet, as well as every email we send and who we send it to. We have entered into a new democratic state where our entire digital footprint is recorded and stored for up to two years by our internet service providers (ISPs).

Source: http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/in-a-state-of-surveillance-1301589.html

Also boards.ie already touched upon this topic: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055536179

---

Short version: Its come about due to a EU directive some time ago.
Systems have been up and running monitoring for some time now.

Best username ever

Doylers wrote: »

And thats just the texts I send, mind boggling

They definitely keep texts of some kind, how do they pull out texts and email against someone during a court case?

puffishoes

Biggins wrote: »

From 2008 (long article for those interested):



Source: http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/in-a-state-of-surveillance-1301589.html

Also boards.ie already touched upon this topic: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055536179

---

Short version: Its come about due to a EU directive some time ago.
Systems have been up and running monitoring for some time now.

How do they monitor for example someone using packet exchange? who route everything through the UK?

Untill I see the hardware, it's horse.

puffishoes

Biggins wrote: »

From 2008 (long article for those interested):



Source: http://www.independent.ie/business/technology/in-a-state-of-surveillance-1301589.html

Also boards.ie already touched upon this topic: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055536179

---

Short version: Its come about due to a EU directive some time ago.
Systems have been up and running monitoring for some time now.

plus "login" and "off" the internet what does that even mean? obtain a dhcp lease? dial a modem? open a page? no wonder the country has trouble with understanding "always on"

login/logoff sigh..

oxo_

Use an encrypted high speed VPN, set it up on your router so all traffic passes through it.
People are entitled to their privacy and a minority pedo or criminal element shouldn't be used as a lazy excuse to thrust draconian snooping laws onto everyone else.

seamus

Best username ever wrote: »

They definitely keep texts of some kind, how do they pull out texts and email against someone during a court case?

Email and texts are usually taken from someone's device by the Gardai when they're investigating.

Your service provider doesn't log the content of your texts, as this would be in contravention of the data protection act. They only record the date and the recipient.

Biggins

puffishoes wrote: »

How do they monitor for example someone using packet exchange? who route everything through the UK?

Untill I see the hardware, it's horse.

Believe what you wish to.
There was an Irish article years ago which mentioned where the Irish server was then approximately (in Dublin but they weren't allowed say exactly) and provided a camera picture of it - and this was before the EU directive which now covers this topic.

In short, there is now an EU directive that insists that ISP's if not actual government, now maintain and record information relating to data packet flow for a period depending on the individual country.

Yesterday morning (14th December 2005) the European Parliament passed a Directive mandating member states to introduce surveillance of all European citizens in their daily lives.

The Directive mandates that EU member states, including Ireland, are to track the location of all mobile phones, all calls made from land lines and mobile phones, as well as all information on individuals’ internet and email usage. This will include keeping records of all web sites visited, the senders and recipients of all emails and the use of any other Internet Protocol (IP) based communication such as the increasingly popular Voice over IP (VoIP) phone providers such as Skype.

Ireland has already had surveillance of this kind for some years. The existing rules required details of telephone use and mobile phone location to be stored for three years. This was initially introduced in secret in 2002, and was placed on a statutory basis only this year, by way of a last-minute amendment to pending legislation. This amendment was introduced without prior warning or consultation, and rushed through with little debate.

However, this European law goes further. It extends monitoring to cover all internet use. It will require Internet service providers to record details of every email you send and every web page you visit. The Directive requires this information to be kept for a minimum of 6 months, but allows national governments to adopt longer periods if they wish. The Irish Government already requires your telephone records to be held for 3 years and seems set to apply the same to these new areas.

In addition, this law, since it was adopted in Europe, is immune from challenge under our Constitution. No Irish judge will be able to decide whether this law amounts to a breach of the constitutional right to privacy. Digital Rights Ireland is concerned that our Constitutional rights can be evaded so easily.

http://www.digitalrights.ie/2005/12/15/data-retention-directive-passed/

Protection against data retention
Suggestions - but cannot verify as to their effectiveness: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telecommunications_data_retention#Protection_against_data_retention

puffishoes

I understand you read the articles.

I just don't belive it..

You can't place a "server" somewhere and record _all_ the data from all ISP's

currently the way Ireland is it's physically impossible.

So _Irish_ ISP's may be asked to record the distrubtion of domestic IP's from their allocation and dates/times of that, which is very possible.

All this information says you had an IP from a given ISP at a given time. nothing else.

af_thefragile

So if my ISP is UK owned, why the heck can't I watch BBC iplayer??!!!!! :mad:

Biggins

puffishoes wrote: »

I understand you read the articles.

I just don't belive it..

You can't place a "server" somewhere and record _all_ the data from all ISP's

currently the way Ireland is it's physically impossible.

So _Irish_ ISP's may be asked to record the distrubtion of domestic IP's from their allocation and dates/times of that, which is very possible.

All this information says you had an IP from a given ISP at a given time. nothing else.

I did NOT say a server was recording all ISP's data - your totally misreading that.
In its infancy and the government was playing catch-up (whats new!) in regard to the internet and monitoring Irish use, they tried to maintain a central system in Dublin which tried to monitor Irish usage (when it was much less in the early years).
...With the passing of the later EU directive, this burden was somewhat eased and required service providers to do it for them - for which they could then access this information after following certain procedures.

puffishoes

Biggins wrote: »

I did NOT say a server was recording all ISP's data - your totally misreading that.
In its infancy and the government was playing catch-up (whats new!) in regard to the internet and monitoring Irish use, they tried to maintain a central system in Dublin which tried to monitor Irish usage (when it was much less in the early years).
...With the passing of the later EU directive, this burden was somewhat eased and required service providers to do it for them - for which they could then access this information after following certain procedures.

Right, so we don't currently record all data flow. which is what you stated at the start.

I'm glad we cleared that up