The 2nd Test; NZ v Ireland; 16/6/12; Christchurch; **mod warning post 1

totallegend

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New Zealand
Israel Dagg; Zac Guildford, Conrad Smith, Sonny Bill Williams, Julian Savea; Dan Carter, Aaron Smith; Tony Woodcock, Andrew Hore, Owen Franks, Brodie Retallick, Sam Whitelock, Adam Thomson, Richie McCaw (capt), Kieran Read.
Replacements: Hikawera Elliott, Ben Franks, Ali Williams, Sam Cane, Piri Weepu, Aaron Cruden, Ben Smith.

Ireland
Rob Kearney, Fergus McFadden, Brian O’Driscoll, Gordon D’Arcy, Andrew Trimble, Jonathan Sexton, Conor Murray, Cian Healy, Rory Best, Mike Ross, Dan Tuohy, Donnacha Ryan, Kevin McLoughlin, Sean O’Brien, Jamie Heaslip
Replacements: Sean Cronin, Declan Fitzpatrick, Donnacha O’Callaghan, Peter O’Mahony, Eoin Reddan, Ronan O’Gara, Simon Zebo.

Ireland enter this game still smarting from a 32 point defeat in Auckland last weekend. It would not be overstating the case to say that Ireland were outclassed and outgunned in almost every aspect of the game and the challenge for Declan Kidney and his coaching team is not only how to identify the players and tactics required, but also how to motivate the players and convince them that the Kiwis are there for the taking...

Ireland; Plus ca change, plus c’est la meme chose…

The Ireland team shows four changes from the Auckland match. The injury to Keith Earls meant a change in the centre was inevitable, however the selection of Gordon D’Arcy at 12 ahead of either Fergus McFadden or Darren Cave may leave Kidney open to charges of putting loyalty to players ahead of squad development or experimentation. Andrew Trimble takes the left wing spot from last week’s debutant, Simon Zebo. In the front row, Mike Ross returns from injury to displace Declan Fitzpatrick, who drops to the bench at the expense of Ronan Loughney and, perhaps surprisingly, Kevin McLaughlin (not named in the initial touring squad) replaces Peter O’Mahony in the blindside flanker role.

So what do these changes mean? The return of D’Arcy to restore the most experienced centre partnership in international rugby, combined with Trimble’s presence on the wing, certainly gives the backline a more settled look and perhaps a greater air of defensive solidity, but in the absence of Earls, have we lost a bit of our potential creative spark? Would a straight swap with Darren Cave have been a more dynamic, daring move? One suspects that the Ireland coaching staff saw how New Zealand were able to earn 40-50 metres with apparent impunity after Ireland turned over the ball, so perhaps a more rigid defensive structure and the close-in, “hard-yards” abilities of D’Arcy and Trimble were considered the right call. Rightly or wrongly, Fergus McFadden has to be in the spotlight after his opposite number scored a hat-trick last week, so the pressure will be on him to show that he can make the grade at this level and hopefully being in a more familiar set-up will facilitate that.

Up front, the return of Mike Ross was somewhat inevitable once he recovered from injury; however Declan Fitzpatrick gave a good account of himself last week in making the scrum one of the few areas in which Ireland achieved parity. Fitzpatrick is clearly short of match fitness and his inclusion on the bench ahead of Ronan Loughney could lead to a major problem if either Healy or Ross (both carrying knocks) has to leave the field early on. Dan Tuohy will be hoping to make a bigger impact on this match than he did last week; Tuohy has impressed all season with his physicality, however the step up to mixing it with the World Champions will have been a steep learning curve for him and he’ll need to show signs of being able to make the grade.


Ireland will be hoping Kevin McLaughlin can disrupt the NZ lineout

The inclusion of Kevin McLaughlin at #6, for only his third cap, crowns an excellent season for him in which he has finally made the Leinster jersey his own; his selection may be another nod to increased defensive solidity – McLaughlin is not as dynamic a ball carrier as O’Mahony but he is a teak-tough tackler and also provides an athletic defensive lineout option which perhaps the second-row of Ryan and Tuohy does not provide.

New Zealand; If it ain’t broke…

Not surprisingly, Steve Hansen has stuck with the same line-up, the only exception being the inclusion of Adam Thomson in the back row, replacing the injured Victor Vito, while Sam Cane, the 20-year old Chiefs flanker being tipped as successor to Richie McCaw, could make his debut from the bench.
The three debutants from last weekend, Julian Savea, Brodie Retallick and Aaron Smith all did more than enough to keep more experienced players out, a further indication of just how efficient the All Black conveyor belt is. Somewhat ominously, Hansen has promised to make more dramatic changes for the third test if the series is wrapped up in Christchurch.


Exciting Kiwi prospect Sam Cane

Given the lack of changes and the success of their game plan last week, don't expect to see anything radically different in the New Zealand approach to the match. Depressingly, coach Steve Hansen has been talking during the week about how his team will have improved over the week, and also that they will draw on the emotion of returning to Christchurch for the first time since the 2011 earthquake that devastated the city.

Mission Impossible; How can Ireland win (or at least keep it close)?

We’ve touched on how the Irish selection points to a more defensive-focussed approach this week, but Declan Kidney and his coaching team will surely be drilling one idea into the heads of each and every player; no turnovers. The ability of this New Zealand team to pounce on loose ball and immediately turn the situation to their advantage with counter-attacks was shown in perfect relief on Saturday. Israel Dagg provides a razor sharp cutting edge from full-back, Savea has pace and power that the Ireland backs will struggle to match and at the centre of it all, Dan Carter continues to reign supreme. Ireland cannot give the ball to these players and that means cutting out the aimless territorial kicking that was on show from numerous players last weekend, it means that players throwing an offload have to be sure that there is a support player arriving.

Much has been made of how effective the off-loading game has been for Leinster and perhaps the selection of the Heineken Cup-winning back row is an attempt to recreate that success on the international stage. Gert Smal was quoted this week as saying that Test Rugby is 10-15% more intense than Heineken Cup, but when it comes to playing New Zealand, the gap is much higher than that. Sean O’Brien was one of the few Irish players to come out of last weekend with his reputation enhanced and it will take another monumental game from him to secure enough ball for Ireland to be in with any chance.

Ireland will need these sort of passes to stick this week

So when Ireland do have the ball, what do they do with it? Last week saw us employ a very orthodox, structured attacking formation and while we showed real intent over the first 20-30 minutes, the New Zealand line was never in real danger and the new centre combination of Earls and O’Driscoll failed to spark. What Ireland did have going for them was a decent set-piece platform off their scrum and lineout and with the addition of Ross and McLaughlin, I would expect that to continue. Hopefully, Les Kiss will have recognised the potential here and has examined ways in which Ireland can profit from first-phase ball off set pieces. Without wanting to hark back to Leinster all the time, the tries by O’Driscoll and Healy against Cardiff and Clermont respectively showed how defences can be unlocked by quick movement and runners coming from deep and at pace. Again, it’s one thing to tear the Cardiff defence asunder and a whole different ball game to breach the All Blacks line, but Ireland could have been hammering away all night last Saturday and still wouldn’t have scored; they have to mix it up and try something different.

Whether Kidney has the heart for an attacking game plan was called into question by Tony Ward during the week; bringing on Ronan O’Gara as a tactical substitution for Jonathan Sexton did not seem like the actions of a coach trying to chase a game, rather one hoping that things don't get worse. Does Kidney have the bottle to risk a big defeat in trying for a win, or will we see a damage limitation exercise?

A disappointing season unlikely to end on a high note

Despite a couple of very encouraging results against Australia and France, this season will be defined by the failures against Wales and England. If Ireland were to pull off a victory this weekend, it would go a long way to erasing some bad memories and would give Declan Kidney a massive stick with which to beat his burgeoning number of critics. Whether they can do so depends almost entirely on whether this group of players can pick themselves up after a long, bruising season and whether they can forget the nightmare of last week.

If the Ireland coach thinks he’s got it right, he could make himself a lot of money; Ireland are currently 12-1 with Paddy Power (the handicap is 23 points). Odds like that for a two-horse race probably tell you all you need to know.

Prediction: Ireland to improve, but New Zealand also to improve – NZ by 25 points.


Photos are taken from stuff.co.nz and leinsterrugby.ie; everything else is my own work

thomond2006

^^^^

Klunk_NZ

ABs 23- could be worth a bet

I am pie

Klunk_NZ wrote: »

ABs 23- could be worth a bet

I imagine you'd get short odds on that.

mikedragon32

MOD warning from the outset: Looking for streams or providing them will result in infractions/bans.

Exar Khun

See you in ChCh?

Got tickets last min

JustinDee

totallegend wrote: »

Photos are taken from stuff.co.nz and leinsterrugby.ie; everything else is my own work

Just so you or Boards don't get into trouble...In this day and age, you'd be best served with correct crediting, mate.
The website images come from doesn't matter.

The rights holders are the agencies who took them: Getty Images (who are particularly strict with copyrights), INPHO and Sportsfile.

Fishooks12

mikedragon32 wrote: »

MOD warning from the outset: Looking for streams or providing them will result in infractions/bans.

Anyway we could pin that to the title Mike? I know well come 8am on Saturday there'll still be an influx of people looking for streams

mikedragon32

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Anyway we could pin that to the title Mike? I know well come 8am on Saturday there'll still be an influx of people looking for streams

Fair point!

I am pie

I am pie wrote: »

I imagine you'd get short odds on that.

Evens is pretty un-short imo (Stan James)

http://www.oddschecker.com/rugby-union/internationals/international-matches/new-zealand-v-ireland/handicaps

Mr.Applepie

totallegend wrote: »

Looks like the NZ have given up already!

Donal26

For the first time in a long while I'm pretty happy with an Ireland selection. I was convinced he'd bring in DOC for Tuohy which wouldn't have got us anywhere. O'Mahoney didn't do much last week and McLoughlins physicality might be what we need to play a tight defensive game.

I'm not usually a big fan of Murray but I don't know if Reddans quicker service would be a help or a hindrance based on our inability to keep the ball last week. Plus the New Zealanders love a small guy somewhere in the line to target.

I would love to see us play with line speed in defence that has been only seen interrmittently in the past year or two. I think we've closed the gap in terms of physicality but not in skill so try to turn it into a dog fight.

Both Trimble and McFadden are prone to poor defensive decesion making which will screw us but without T Bowe we were always going to struggle. No team world wide is close to NZ at the minute although there is still a possible frailty in the pack IMO.


The question of how exactly we are going to score tries? What would you give for Ferris to be there!

I reckon it'll be close till after half time and we'll lose by 25.

JustinDee

Mr.Applepie wrote: »

Looks like the NZ have given up already!

Shush, they're doing their dance.
If we're lucky, they'll do their newer version that was "borne of a new tredushun" in the mid-noughties (Mexted's words, not mine), Kapo O Pongo. Its great. They even tell us they're going to slit our throats.
Bless 'em.

mikedragon32

I always hum the tune to Macarena to myself during the Adihaka brought to you by Iveco.

JustinDee

mikedragon32 wrote: »

I always hum the tune to Macarena to myself during the Adihaka brought to you by Iveco.

I guess I like the Ka Mate haka before a test but there's only so much homesick drunk Kiwis out on the town doing it that I can take endlessly doing it.
Used to face it when I played rugby league against two NZ club sides in NSW leagues. Bit ho-hum to be honest. We had a loose forward who basically yelled that he was going to smash them throughout . . . and he did.

Kiwi_knock

I think this game will be quite close for a long time but NZ will pull away when the benches start emptying. NZ will win by 15 points.

trackguy

JustinDee wrote: »

I guess I like the Ka Mate haka before a test but there's only so much homesick drunk Kiwis out on the town doing it that I can take endlessly doing it.
Used to face it when I played rugby league against two NZ club sides in NSW leagues. Bit ho-hum to be honest. We had a loose forward who basically yelled that he was going to smash them throughout . . . and he did.

Haha this brightened up my day!

fitz

JustinDee wrote: »

I guess I like the Ka Mate haka before a test but there's only so much homesick drunk Kiwis out on the town doing it that I can take endlessly doing it.
Used to face it when I played rugby league against two NZ club sides in NSW leagues. Bit ho-hum to be honest. We had a loose forward who basically yelled that he was going to smash them throughout . . . and he did.

Have to say...the AB's haka lost a lot of it's lustre when I experienced a traditional Maori haka being performed, ladies and all. Electrifying. Made the AB's version look seriously weak.

hallelujajordan

I find it incomprehensible that he sticks with Murray . . I thought Murray had an awful game last weekend . . If we are going to compete with the ABs we need Sexton to control the game and to get the line moving . . he is so much better at that with Reddan at 9 . .

shuffol

fitz wrote: »

Have to say...the AB's haka lost a lot of it's lustre when I experienced a traditional Maori haka being performed, ladies and all. Electrifying. Made the AB's version look seriously weak.

Much prefer the older version myself
http://youtu.be/DdI0g3rENcQ

wonton

anyone now where I could listen to this match online on an android phone?

Tried radio sport.nz but couldnt get it to work on my phone for some reason, worked fine on my laptop though.

danthefan

I think we're going to lose by more than last weekend.

Fishooks12

danthefan wrote: »

I think we're going to lose by more than last weekend.

I don't think so. We've a much more defensively secure team out.

I can see us getting a shunt on their scrum too

Mr.Applepie

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I don't think so. We've a much more defensively secure team out.

I can see us getting a shunt on their scrum too

I've heard this from a few sources but I really doubt it. NZ are good scrummagers but they just don't care about it and don't use it as a weapon. My guess is breakeven as NZ will just get it out quick.

totallegend

wonton wrote: »

anyone now where I could listen to this match online on an android phone?

Tried radio sport.nz but couldnt get it to work on my phone for some reason, worked fine on my laptop though.

It's on rte digital afaik, check out their media player

Grimebox

Its funny how much people are calling for Kidney to build a squad yet are also calling for Reddan(32) to start ahead of Murray(23)

JRant

I'd be amazed if NZ don't put 50+ points on the scoreboard in ChCh.

totallegend

Grimebox wrote: »

Its funny how much people are calling for Kidney to build a squad yet are also calling for Reddan(32) to start ahead of Murray(23)

It's obviously pro-Leinster bias. Or maybe it's just because Murray is painfully slow at everything he does. I think if you took a straw poll of Leinster fans, most would accept that Reddan is short of international quality but he is still a better option than Murray.

If you're good enough, you're old enough. But the reverse is also true; if you're not good enough, it doesn't matter how young you are.

Or to put it another way; the same arguments were being had about O'Leary up to last year, that people who wanted him dropped were just anti-Munster. Does that still apply?

Grimebox

totallegend wrote: »

It's obviously pro-Leinster bias. Or maybe it's just because Murray is painfully slow at everything he does. I think if you took a straw poll of Leinster fans, most would accept that Reddan is short of international quality but he is still a better option than Murray.

If you're good enough, you're old enough. But the reverse is also true; if you're not good enough, it doesn't matter how young you are.

Or to put it another way; the same arguments were being had about O'Leary up to last year, that people who wanted him dropped were just anti-Munster. Does that still apply?

This Leinster-Munster stuff doesn't even enter my mind. Its utterly irrelevant to selection process and just fabricated on these boards imo

gally74

wonton wrote: »

anyone now where I could listen to this match online on an android phone?

Tried radio sport.nz but couldnt get it to work on my phone for some reason, worked fine on my laptop though.

Tunein radio

Teferi

Grimebox wrote: »

Its funny how much people are calling for Kidney to build a squad yet are also calling for Reddan(32) to start ahead of Murray(23)

Building a squad does not mean playing a person just because they happen to be the youngest person available.

You're also ignoring the reasoning behind why people want Reddan to start. Read back through the threads and find out.

shuffol

Grimebox wrote: »

Its funny how much people are calling for Kidney to build a squad yet are also calling for Reddan(32) to start ahead of Murray(23)

Both players will be in the squad, people are simply calling for the player in better form and playing with more confidence to be the one to start. Age shouldnt really come into it, should BOD be dropped for Cave?

redmca2

Totallegend asks
"So when Ireland do have the ball, what do they do with it? "

One thing I pray they (Murray actually) don't do is put up aimless box kicks. I can't recall us ever benefitting from these and kicking the ball back to the ABs is pure suicide.
Better in defense to give away lineouts than giving it to their back 3

desertcircus

Grimebox wrote: »

Its funny how much people are calling for Kidney to build a squad yet are also calling for Reddan(32) to start ahead of Murray(23)

It's funny how people don't seem to notice that our two best performances in the last couple of years (England 6n 2011, Australia WC 2011) were two of Reddan's only starts in those two years. Building a squad would involve bringing Murray on as a sub to get him acclimatised to the pace of the game, not hamstringing the entire gameplan for the sake of a bit more grunt in defence.

Yamanoto

Any chance the 50-something pub singer can sit this one out?

Ireland's Call's bad enough when delivered by a Pro.

Shoddy stuff.

fitz

shuffol wrote: »

fitz wrote: »

Have to say...the AB's haka lost a lot of it's lustre when I experienced a traditional Maori haka being performed, ladies and all. Electrifying. Made the AB's version look seriously weak.

Much prefer the older version myself
http://youtu.be/DdI0g3rENcQ

These are the guys I saw, though this seems to only be a section of the full hacks they did. The dude on the left was incredible. Even ten foot away, you felt like he could grab your head and pull it off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlXYaSQmIrE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

pynchy

Murray made a mess of all the potential last week...we just need the ball in sextons hands(or anything green with a lot of momentum) as fast as possible... Murray is not wanted for slow decision making and too many mistakes. I would choose marshall iver murray.

Swiwi

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I don't think so. We've a much more defensively secure team out.

I can see us getting a shunt on their scrum too

Fishooks, where does this idea come from? I would say your scrum got parity at scrumtime for most of last week's game. The game before that was England in the 6N, and even with my most Irish-tinted glasses I can only but say that England fairly destroyed your scrum that day. Probably the last time I can remember an Irish scrum dominating an opponents was Aussie in the RWC. That was a great performance, but Pocock was missing, and the Australian scrum is not exactly the international yardstick. I dont necessarily think NZ is the best team at scrumtime (England, SA and even Argentina are pretty decent here), but based on recent evidence, I would be pretty surprised if Ireland pushed NZ's scrum around in the weekend. Please give your reasoning.

dtpc191991

totallegend wrote: »

It's obviously pro-Leinster bias. Or maybe it's just because Murray is painfully slow at everything he does. I think if you took a straw poll of Leinster fans, most would accept that Reddan is short of international quality but he is still a better option than Murray.

If you're good enough, you're old enough. But the reverse is also true; if you're not good enough, it doesn't matter how young you are.

Or to put it another way; the same arguments were being had about O'Leary up to last year, that people who wanted him dropped were just anti-Munster. Does that still apply?

Isn't Reddan originally from Limerick which last time I checked was definitely in Munster?

Fishooks12

Swiwi wrote: »

Fishooks, where does this idea come from?

With Healy and Ross both fit we have a very good scrum. On his day Healy is an animal in tight. He's not totally consistent yet but that will come with age.

I would say your scrum got parity at scrumtime for most of last week's game

.

Not bad considering we had a TH making his debut

The game before that was England in the 6N, and even with my most Irish-tinted glasses I can only but say that England fairly destroyed your scrum that day.

They destroyed our scrum that day because Mike Ross was injured after 5 minutes. His replacement was a loosehead who was demolished because he was out of position

Probably the last time I can remember an Irish scrum dominating an opponents was Aussie in the RWC

It was a very good platform for every game in the six nations bar the last. Sadly we didn't have the game plan to make good use of it. I can't recall offhand but Healy destroyed a fresh Euan Murray off the bench during the 2nd half of the Scottish gaem

That was a great performance, but Pocock was missing, and the Australian scrum is not exactly the international yardstick.

I don't think Pocock has much impact at scrumtime. But I wasn't using that as a basis for thinking we might have an advantage come scrumtime. We all know how limited the Aussies are in that department

I dont necessarily think NZ is the best team at scrumtime (England, SA and even Argentina are pretty decent here), but based on recent evidence, I would be pretty surprised if Ireland pushed NZ's scrum around in the weekend. Please give your reasoning.

I never said we would "push the NZ scrum around". But I think Healy and Ross have shown enough at club and International level to suggest that we can gain more than parity with our number 1 anchor back in the side

Now all this might go out the window considering Healy and Ross seem to be lacking fitness at the moment due to injury

Tox56

Swiwi wrote: »

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I don't think so. We've a much more defensively secure team out.

I can see us getting a shunt on their scrum too

Fishooks, where does this idea come from? I would say your scrum got parity at scrumtime for most of last week's game. The game before that was England in the 6N, and even with my most Irish-tinted glasses I can only but say that England fairly destroyed your scrum that day. Probably the last time I can remember an Irish scrum dominating an opponents was Aussie in the RWC. That was a great performance, but Pocock was missing, and the Australian scrum is not exactly the international yardstick. I dont necessarily think NZ is the best team at scrumtime (England, SA and even Argentina are pretty decent here), but based on recent evidence, I would be pretty surprised if Ireland pushed NZ's scrum around in the weekend. Please give your reasoning.

Is there a particular reason you mentioned the parity last week, and the capitulation the game before, without mentioning the fact Ross was injured for virtually every minute of those two games. The same Ross who will be returning this week?

I also don't see what relevance Pocock's absence had on the Aussie scrum, but it is a poor scrum no doubt.

I don't personally think we will be pushing anyone around the park, but this week we will hopefully have someone who isn't making their test debut at tighthead.

Tox56

Well, I think that just about covers everything wrong with that post

Fishooks12

My one hope for the game is that we at least keep it competitive until the 60minute mark

duckysauce

Fishooks12 wrote: »

My one hope for the game is that we at least keep it competitive until the 60minute mark

and then we rip them a new one

molloyjh

Swiwi wrote: »

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I don't think so. We've a much more defensively secure team out.

I can see us getting a shunt on their scrum too

Fishooks, where does this idea come from? I would say your scrum got parity at scrumtime for most of last week's game. The game before that was England in the 6N, and even with my most Irish-tinted glasses I can only but say that England fairly destroyed your scrum that day. Probably the last time I can remember an Irish scrum dominating an opponents was Aussie in the RWC. That was a great performance, but Pocock was missing, and the Australian scrum is not exactly the international yardstick. I dont necessarily think NZ is the best team at scrumtime (England, SA and even Argentina are pretty decent here), but based on recent evidence, I would be pretty surprised if Ireland pushed NZ's scrum around in the weekend. Please give your reasoning.

Ireland vs England 2011 6 Nations. We took them apart up front. Like a good few positions in Ireland our first choice are pretty strong. Our back-up not so much. In the 2012 game against England we ended up with a loose-head at tight-head. That was never going to end well.

boredatwork82

shuffol wrote: »

Grimebox wrote: »

Its funny how much people are calling for Kidney to build a squad yet are also calling for Reddan(32) to start ahead of Murray(23)

Both players will be in the squad, people are simply calling for the player in better form and playing with more confidence to be the one to start. Age shouldnt really come into it, should BOD be dropped for Cave?

Yes, Bod should be dropped. He was atrocious last week.

gally74

If your for development, Murray McFadden, lough ye, McLaughlin, cave should play,

If you want to limit the score or win, it's Darcy, teddan, Ross, etc,

Kidney seems mixed up, cave deserved a start

Clearlier

boredatwork82 wrote: »

Yes, Bod should be dropped. He was atrocious last week.

If you really think that you should go and watch the match again. He definitely made a couple of mistakes but he had a good game overall.

bamboozle

Clearlier wrote: »

If you really think that you should go and watch the match again. He definitely made a couple of mistakes but he had a good game overall.

lets not forget DK had the brainwave of playing players out of position and hoping they'd settle in against the reigning world champions.

last weekend we should have had mcfadden as 12, BOD in natural 13 position guarding the 13 channel, Earls & trimble on wings.

Instead we put our 13 to 12, a 12 to 14 and an 11 to 13 (ok i'd accept Earls can play 13 but i consider him an out an out 11 and its a disservice to him playing him 13)

i'm all for blooding new players and building up a squad, however players have to earn the right to wear the jersey, Ross and SOB had to put in consistent top quality HC performances for ages before DK cast a glance in their direction. Yet we see others sailing into the squad.

Sabre0001

While I would like to see Reddan put on alongside Sexton and Murray sprung from the bench (again with Sexton rather than O'Gara), I think people need to stop referencing the Australia / England matches.

Why?

Because we played so much differently those days and not just because of one player or one position. Every single player drove people back in tackles, players wanted to compete on the ground, the choke tackle defence (against Australia in particular) was superb.

Going forward we had our back row players running onto the ball with pace. At the moment, it doesn't matter how quick the ball comes out as everyone is lined up very flat - that's why we haven't seen the big carries. It's this kind of fire that we need to find again, rather than once every so often. Maybe it's a gameplan approach, but it won't matter who we put where if we don't have that hunger.

monkeybutter

So do people reckon the score will be closer based on us having learnt from our mistakes and with possibly a few better defencive players on the pitch or do we reckon NZ have more in the tank? It's hard to see them playing a whole pile better than last week, but we could be worse. You'd have to reckon that if Ireland have to put in a massive effort this week, that they will get hockeyed in the third test, so we might as well empty the bench for that one.