The Curiosity On Mars Thread.

Zubeneschamali

Space Enthusiasts Find Missing ’71 Soviet Lander Using Mars Orbiter Images

Chuck Stone

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Space Enthusiasts Find Missing ’71 Soviet Lander Using Mars Orbiter Images

The Mars 3 descent module separated from the orbiter and several hours later entered the Martian atmosphere, descending to the surface via a series of parachutes and retrorockets.

universetoday.com

Similar landing technology (?) to Curiosity only 40+ years ago!

Capt'n Midnight

Chuck Stone wrote: »

Similar landing technology (?) to Curiosity only 40+ years ago!

There are numerous examples of reinventing or reusing Russian kit. Usually after everything else has been tried because "not invented here"

Rough rule of thumb is that Russians have 1/10th the budget of NASA / ESA for similar projects. When you take that into account the failure rate becomes a story of wins against the odds.

Though Russia has a terrible record when it comes to Mars. I'd have liked to see one of the earlier landers hop around one of the moons

shedweller

Pics starting to come from Curiosity. This is from the navcam:


And this is the rear navcam:

TheUsual

Really good article on the BBC website about the next planned site for Curiosity to drill at.

"Scientists have mentioned the so-called Shaler outcrop but haven't yet spoken about it in great detail.
Shaler is a classic example of cross-stratification - a structure produced from thin, inclined layers of sediment."


http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22402849

emo72

the rear navcam pic. snow, dust or dandruff?

shedweller

emo72 wrote: »

the rear navcam pic. snow, dust or dandruff?

I saw that but didn't know what to make of it. I made a mistake too; it's the rear HAZCAM. One of four at the rear, over her numberplate!:) Reversing cameras, if you will...

It could be artifacts from the transmission that would have passed close to the sun and got distorted slightly. I certainly hope it's not ccd degradation!

Edit:

I checked a few more of the same image and they all have different patterns to the "static" on them. So it could just be transmission distortion from being passed so close to the sun. Or something else entirely??

shanered

Maybe I'm being a little simplistic, but could it be dust particles?
Even tiny quartz type ones?
Thought I'd have a guess...

emo72

shanered wrote: »

Maybe I'm being a little simplistic, but could it be dust particles?
Even tiny quartz type ones?
Thought I'd have a guess...

thats more realistic than dandruff tbf. if its dust it looks mighty invasive.

Mountainsandh

it looks like burnt pixels on a ccd to me... hopefully it is just a transmission problem.

edit : although... if you zoom in on the pic, it kinda really does look like dust/dry snow or something... Hard to tell. It looks like some of the "flakes" are... moving ? and that there could be a bit of accumulation on the machine and wheel tracks. Not very very clear or obvious though, just enough to be confusing.

shedweller

If it's dust then it's very white dust. Which could most likely mean snow or frost.
Things to find out:
1: snow vs latitude.
2: season where curiosity is now.

Mountainsandh, i certainly hope the ccd is not on the way out! It would be a very bad omen of things to come for curiosity. Mind you, given the resilience of Opportunity and its cameras (which were made by the same company) i think we just might be ok there. I hope...

shanered

Pictures are unfortuinetly black and white, would be nice to have colour to see what the white spots are!

shedweller

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/msl20130509.html

The team operating NASA's Curiosity Mars rover has selected a second target rock for drilling and sampling. The rover will set course to the drilling location in coming days. This second drilling target, called "Cumberland," lies about nine feet (2.75 meters) west of the rock where Curiosity's drill first touched Martian stone in February. Curiosity took the first rock sample ever collected on Mars from that rock, called "John Klein." The rover found evidence of an ancient environment favorable for microbial life. Both rocks are flat, with pale veins and a bumpy surface. They are embedded in a layer of rock on the floor of a shallow depression called "Yellowknife Bay."
This second drilling is intended to confirm results from the first drilling, which indicated the chemistry of the first powdered sample from John Klein was much less oxidizing than that of a soil sample the rover scooped up before it began drilling.

shanered

Is there any info on the minerals found whilst drilling?

shedweller

shanered wrote: »

Is there any info on the minerals found whilst drilling?

I think there was a graph showing the mineral content of the tailings. They want to do another to compare the two.

shedweller

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ft5gJbqdzfY

shanered

Hardly have a link for this chart?
Would be great to see.

shedweller

shanered wrote: »

Hardly have a link for this chart?
Would be great to see.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/msl20121030.html

http://www.spaceflight101.com/msl-chemin-science-reports.html

shedweller

New hole drilled in "Cumberland"

NASA's Mars rover Curiosity has used the drill on its robotic arm to collect a powdered sample from the interior of a rock called "Cumberland." Plans call for delivering portions of the sample in coming days to laboratory instruments inside the rover. This is only the second time that a sample has been collected from inside a rock on Mars. The first was Curiosity's drilling at a target called "John Klein" three months ago. Cumberland resembles John Klein and lies about nine feet (2.75 meters) farther west. Both are within a shallow depression called "Yellowknife Bay."
The hole that Curiosity drilled into Cumberland on May 19 is about 0.6 inch (1.6 centimeters) in diameter and about 2.6 inches (6.6 centimeters) deep.

http://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/msl/news/msl20130520.html

Here's a picture of MAHLI taking a picture.:)


And a nice view of the drill after the hole was drilled.


They never said anything about having collected the tailings so i can only assume this pic is to verify the condition of the collection scoop.
Angle it a bit down lads....:P


Productive few days for Curiosity eh?

shedweller

Upon reflection i see there are tailings in the scoop!
Shoulda went to specsavers...

Quote from the text accompanying the close up of the hole:

NASA's Mars rover Curiosity drilled into this rock target, "Cumberland," during the 279th Martian day, or sol, of the rover's work on Mars (May 19, 2013) and collected a powdered sample of material from the rock's interior. Analysis of the Cumberland sample using laboratory instruments inside Curiosity will check results from "John Klein," the first rock on Mars from which a sample was ever collected and analyzed

Analysis should take place "over the coming days"
http://mobile.nasa.gov/mcs/mobile/showDetailView.jsp?paramItem=mission_pages/msl/news/msl20130520

shedweller

Found this fantastic picture while looking for updates on Cumberland.
She's a beaut!:)
http://www.universetoday.com/102256/curiosity-drills-2nd-hole-into-ancient-mars-rocks-searching-for-the-ingredients-of-life/

shedweller

ChemCam analysis done on the tailings surrounding the hole.

shedweller

Is this the tailings waste chute?

The pic below says it is part of CHIMRA but i'm not able to explain what it does.



Thoughts?

Mountainsandh

Got an email telling me that Curiosity Cam was live on Ustream, at half seven pm this evening, missed it ! did you guys see it ? there is a link to something recorded an hour ago about new radiation readings I think, going to watch that now.

edit : audio conference starts at 6 minutes, after the soothing music.

shedweller

I heard there was a conference coming up but i have given up trying to see them. Between work, sleep, kids, etc i simply haven't a hope of catching them!:D
Here's a link to the ustream conference you mentioned:http://www.ustream.tv/nasajpl

Turns out it is recorded so i can now listen to it! Yay!

shedweller

This graph was shown on during the video:
Basically 6 months of space radiation is a little more than the annual allowance a nuclear worker has on earth. We're gonna need faster engines!
Interestingly, it was pointed out that this is only from the galactic cosmic rays (GCR) and didn't include any solar radiation. It was estimated that another 5% would come from the sun. I don't know if they mean average, second by second levels, or spikes from CME's.
I would have thought it would be the other way around with GCR levels being way smaller than solar radiation. I guess that means we have our work cut out for us if we want to leave our solar system, eh?

TheUsual

See you could work 40 years at a Nuclear Power plant and be fine, no DNA or cell damage.

It's the random damage to your DNA that we can't predict and can't fix yet.
High energy particles ejected from the Sun are the problem in Space. And I guess there is random background cosmic radiation also bouncing around the Universe.

In the near future maybe they can shield humans, but that's a long way off.
Same for living on Mars, people will want to walk about on the surface, that's why you go there.
And if you don't get your lethal dose of radiation on the way to Mars then you will get it on Mars.

No cure yet means no long term Space settlements.
The answer is robots for now but look at what Curiosity can do with drills, high def cameras and chemical analysis.
Pretty much what humans would do. Without the loss of life.

In the future maybe medicine exists to fix the damage or shielding exists which means living in a cell on another planet.

shedweller

TheUsual; yes we are going nowhere anytime soon unless we solve:
a: Faster propulsion
b: cancer
c: shielding

Faster propulsion and shielding is one (well...two) thing, solving cancer is going to result in a population explosion, with all its consequences. Do people want cancer cured? Well, yes and no, for now at least. Long term, a cancer cure is of course, essential and sought after. But we need to have less children and stabilise the global population first, then a cancer cure won't swamp us in people that are either living longer.

It's a tricky subject!

Anyway, back to nasa nerdology!:)
http://www.nasa.gov/home/hqnews/2013/may/HQ_13-165_MSL_Radiation_Findings.html

The findings, which are published in the May 31 edition of the journal Science, indicate radiation exposure for human explorers could exceed NASA's career limit for astronauts if current propulsion systems are used.

Two forms of radiation pose potential health risks to astronauts in deep space. One is galactic cosmic rays (GCRs), particles caused by supernova explosions and other high-energy events outside the solar system. The other is solar energetic particles (SEPs) associated with solar flares and coronal mass ejections from the sun.

Radiation exposure is measured in units of Sievert (Sv) or milliSievert (one one-thousandth Sv). Long-term population studies have shown exposure to radiation increases a person's lifetime cancer risk. Exposure to a dose of 1 Sv, accumulated over time, is associated with a 5 percent increase in risk for developing fatal cancer.

NASA has established a 3 percent increased risk of fatal cancer as an acceptable career limit for its astronauts currently operating in low-Earth orbit. The RAD data showed the Curiosity rover was exposed to an average of 1.8 milliSieverts of GCR per day on its journey to Mars. Only about 5 percent of the radiation dose was associated with solar particles because of a relatively quiet solar cycle and the shielding provided by the spacecraft.

Random idea: Build a transfer craft big enough and with enough shielding to keep the occupants safe but would spend the rest of its life either in orbit around earth or mars or in transit between the two. Refuel etc. at earth and send it on its way again. Yes it would cost but averaged over the 10 or so round trips it would do it would work out ok.
And my views on the cost of all this should be clear by now; it goes into the wages of people that pay taxes etc etc. The money doesn't go to mars or burn up on reentry. It stays in bank accounts and builds economies!

Mountainsandh

listened to the report to the end, but the really poor quality of the various lines really put me off.
Interesting stuff, I wonder can the shielding be done biologically, that is to say, something closer to vaccination than curing the cancer when it happens. Wouldn't it be massively ironic if astronauts ended up with a ... grey, or green skin colour ? :D:D
(watching too much old daft punk stuff, kids love it)

shedweller

Mountainsandh wrote: »

Interesting stuff, I wonder can the shielding be done biologically, that is to say, something closer to vaccination than curing the cancer when it happens. Wouldn't it be massively ironic if astronauts ended up with a ... grey, or green skin colour ? :D:D
(watching too much old daft punk stuff, kids love it)

Might be a good time for that meme with the raver having a sudden realisation!
"What if aliens are us, but from the future!!"