Getting a job without contacts. Is it possible in Ireland?

cricketfan

First time posting although I've been around here a few years.

It's been two years now since I came back to Ireland and my attempts to get work in my sector of expertise has proved hopeless. I occasionally hear that someone else has moved into a position because they have been given the nod through a friend or relative even though the organisation is supposed to have a fair and equal policy of recruitment. Now, I knew this was the norm in the past but I thought we had grown up a bit as a nation.

Now, is this just plain old begrudgery or do other posters agree there is still is a culture of only getting a foot on the ladder through connections. For the rest of ye, off out of the country or the dole.

Are they any posters who will come on here and say yes, their uncle/brother/best friend's father was the reason they got a job in the first place? And they wouldn't have got the job without those connections?

sallywin

cricketfan, you're right that it goes on a lot, but remember also that some people go out of their way to network or make contacts from scratch and persist enough to land the job in the area they want so why not do it that way.

I firmly believe that if you want something bad enough you'll find a way.

cricketfan

sallywin, I have networked everywhere I can possibly think of in relation to my skills and experiences although you've got to step back a little or some will just see you as a pest.

Fair enough re your last sentence, but may I ask, are you in work at the moment?

Gurgle

OP, its hard to comment without knowing your area of expertise.

There are plenty of businesses that work that way, semi-states are famous for it as the management don't have any incentive to get the best people and make the best profits. It's very common in desirable / easy / well paid unskilled positions, where all that's needed is a warm body.

But its certainly not true as a general rule for qualified professionals.

cricketfan

Gurgle, I'm trying to secure something in the wider not for profit sector

Raekwon

I still think the old saying "It's not what you know, it's who you know" is still very much prevalent today in Ireland in some cases.

I've lost count of the amount of incompetent people that I've encountered in the Irish work place that were only there because of a connection that they had in the company.

Large international multinationals are different as they will always hire the very best people regardless of their connections or lack there of.

Gurgle

cricketfan wrote: »

the wider not for profit sector

I'm afraid I haven't a clue what that means... I guess it doesn't mean sectors where people are hired with a view to getting the most & best work per paycheck.

spacecookie555

cricketfan wrote: »

First time posting although I've been around here a few years.

It's been two years now since I came back to Ireland and my attempts to get work in my sector of expertise has proved hopeless. I occasionally hear that someone else has moved into a position because they have been given the nod through a friend or relative even though the organisation is supposed to have a fair and equal policy of recruitment. Now, I knew this was the norm in the past but I thought we had grown up a bit as a nation.

Now, is this just plain old begrudgery or do other posters agree there is still is a culture of only getting a foot on the ladder through connections. For the rest of ye, off out of the country or the dole.

Are they any posters who will come on here and say yes, their uncle/brother/best friend's father was the reason they got a job in the first place? And they wouldn't have got the job without those connections?

Ireland is still all about who you know when it comes to getting a good job or promotion in most areas, Gurgle had it spot on with government departments especially even the likes of a job in a shop is easier to get if the owner knows you or someone willing to refer you whos a friend of the owner.
I worked in a shop while I was in school and one of the main reasons I got the job was because my auntie knew him well. Its a very old fashioned way of doing things imo but I think it will linger around like a bad smell for another couple of generations at least.

cricketfan

By 'not for profit' yes I mean the social sector rather than private enterprise.

I think you've also hit the nail on the head, the multinationals go for the best, the indigenous economy and certainly, to my eyes anyway, the social sector tend to appoint people they know, although that is a bit of a generalisation. I think that is what I am up against.

It also helps if you've worked locally as well. Even though the Irish social sector wouldn't be as well developed as say let's say in the UK, I see very little enthusiasm from interviewers to what you may have achieved outside of the state. Just my observations.

There is a very grey area between networking and lobbying as well. The goodness in me seems to hope that there is some genuine individuals/interviewers/organisations out there that will see how much of a benefit I could be to them. I've got to keep that thought constant although with each rejection, the cynic comes back to haunt me.

I am soldering on and am determined to secure something despite having obstacles put in front of me.

cricketfan

Gurgle wrote: »

I'm afraid I haven't a clue what that means... I guess it doesn't mean sectors where people are hired with a view to getting the most & best work per paycheck.

Fair comment but there's many there who do work hard enough. Like in other countries there is here a social and commercial sector divide, a lack of appreciation by both sides of the other.

I work in the not for profit sector and it dose not happen in my organization.

A few things you need to take in to account the recruitment embargo is impacting on the not for profit sector.
You need to volunteer and from that you might get some relief work and from the relief work you might get a temporary contact.

The not for profit sector is very developed here but maybe because Ireland is a small country with a small population its is not like the UK for example

allibastor

Oh God is it ever.
I went for a promotion recently in my company, I had aced, now i mean aced all the testing that was required. i had performed in the top 1% i was told in what was expected of the candidates. i had the basic experience of what was needed and was well able from an aptitude side to do the job. still got turned down for some who did not do nearly as wel as me in testing, had more experience to be fair. found out after a few weeks the woman who got the job had working with the hiring manager a few years back in a different company.

i have seen it with other jobs i never went for,but i would have had some involvement in. It always goes to the guy who is known around the company, or in one case a guy who had played rugby with one of the lads.

and it was a semi-state, but i have seen it happen in many private companies. nepotism is alive and well

Gurgle

cricketfan wrote: »

Fair comment but there's many there who do work hard enough.

Couldn't agree more, there is even a case to say Nepotism can be a better strategy for recruitment.
If you hire someone you know personally, you know he is a hard worker and smart enough to handle the situations involved in the job.
When you hire a stranger based on qualifications, (apparent) experience and interview skills, you're still taking a chance on whether they're any actual use to the organization.

cricketfan

mariaalice wrote: »

I work in the not for profit sector and it dose not happen in my organization.

A few things you need to take in to account the recruitment embargo is impacting on the not for profit sector.
You need to volunteer and from that you might get some relief work and from the relief work you might get a temporary contact.

The not for profit sector is very developed here but maybe because Ireland is a small country with a small population its is not like the UK for example

Well I've worked in both countries. From my experience the general not for profit sector here is 20 years behind the UK. I can see that in recruitment practice and in the professionalism across both.

I love hearing crap such as 'you might get relief work' 'you might get a temporary contract'. You would think I was being offered a begging bowl but only after the 'existing employed' had taken their share.

What I want is a job and to be at least given the respect of a fair and transparent interview process.

MrTsSnickers

I'm in the same sector Cricket Fan. It's so frustrating, I've gone to college (volunteered all through college because I didn't want to leave with a blank cv), completed internships, am currently volunteering, when I send out applications, not a friggin' thing. Also, I think that the JobBridge Scheme is taking many, if not all, of the entry level positions so that you can't even get a start. I've no issue with volunteer work or internships but when you've done all of those things and still nothing it's just rubbish. Also, I've begun to see on job descriptions that only paid employment experience will be considered. In sum, Cricket Fan, it's terrible here for the not for profit sector, an so many people of this entire generation of graduates can't get started in the sector - unless they're going to work for free.

sallywin

cricketfan wrote: »

sallywin, I have networked everywhere I can possibly think of in relation to my skills and experiences although you've got to step back a little or some will just see you as a pest.

Fair enough re your last sentence, but may I ask, are you in work at the moment?

I am indeed, and pretty much always have been in work apart from study periods. I changed career a while back and have had a really good part time job in this new area, (no contacts!) and I am now taking the next step to branch out sideways and gain more experience in the field and so I'm prepared to take on a poorly paid placement which I can use to get great practical experience and then keep my part-time job going at the same time. Lots of work, lots of sacrifices, financial and other, and pure passion and persistence. I'm also not in an area that is 9-5 sitting in an office. It's about how much you want to achieve in life.

Also a good attitude is important, if you come across at all as arrogant, or cynical, etc. then people don't want to be around you. I'm not saying that is the case with you, I'm just mentioning that attitude comes across at interviews and it will make or break you.

Look at what you could do better to come across your best, keep networking, and make sure you can add serious value to the organization. Stand out.

Mike87

All but one of my jobs were landed because I knew the person doing the hiring and firing.

I can never understand why theres so much begrudgery about it. Me knowing the person hiring/firing evens out for the fact that you've got a college degree backing you and I dont.

Gurgle

Mike87 wrote: »

Me knowing the person hiring/firing evens out for the fact that you've got a college degree backing you and I dont.

Please tell me there was sarcasm going on here.

Mike87

Gurgle wrote: »

Please tell me there was sarcasm going on here.

What..??

Mr. Loverman

I have had 10 previous jobs. 1 was through someone I know.

cricketfan

sallywin wrote: »

I am indeed, and pretty much always have been in work apart from study periods. I changed career a while back and have had a really good part time job in this new area, (no contacts!) and I am now taking the next step to branch out sideways and gain more experience in the field and so I'm prepared to take on a poorly paid placement which I can use to get great practical experience and then keep my part-time job going at the same time. Lots of work, lots of sacrifices, financial and other, and pure passion and persistence. I'm also not in an area that is 9-5 sitting in an office. It's about how much you want to achieve in life.

Also a good attitude is important, if you come across at all as arrogant, or cynical, etc. then people don't want to be around you. I'm not saying that is the case with you, I'm just mentioning that attitude comes across at interviews and it will make or break you.

Look at what you could do better to come across your best, keep networking, and make sure you can add serious value to the organization. Stand out.

Believe me I'm keeping the cynical thoughts well under check at interview. I agree we've got to put just the positive steps out there when you're sitting across from the table with 3/4 people who have the role to make such a change in your life for the next 2/5/10 years or more.

My trouble is - I'm at an interview trying to appear keen and enthusiastic, interested in the role (and that's genuine), then I look across the table and I am mostly seeing bored faces who if anything look like they don't want to even be in the room. After one such experience just after the interview finished I was escorted back to the lift. Once I got in there, on my own, I broke down. I just felt deep down this was some sort of set up and this crowd were just going through the motions. Equal opportunities, my arse.

Mr. Loverman

cricketfan wrote: »

Believe me I'm keeping the cynical thoughts well under check at interview. I agree we've got to put just the positive steps out there when you're sitting across from the table with 3/4 people who have the role to make such a change in your life for the next 2/5/10 years or more.

My trouble is - I'm at an interview trying to appear keen and enthusiastic, interested in the role (and that's genuine), then I look across the table and I am mostly seeing bored faces who if anything look like they don't want to even be in the room. After one such experience just after the interview finished I was escorted back to the lift. Once I got in there, on my own, I broke down. I just felt deep down this was some sort of set up and this crowd were just going through the motions. Equal opportunities, my arse.

The problem isn't always the other person... It's possible you do bad interviews. :)

Would you consider paying for an interview coaching course? Could be worth the money.

cricketfan

Mike87 wrote: »

All but one of my jobs were landed because I knew the person doing the hiring and firing.

I can never understand why theres so much begrudgery about it. Me knowing the person hiring/firing evens out for the fact that you've got a college degree backing you and I dont.

If it's not sarcasm and you genuinely believe that, then what hope is there for the rest of us. Does fairness mean anything. Answer. No.

There are many nice things about this country but this type of thing is not one of them. Are you also saying that not having a degree is a hindrance to getting a job in whatever you do?

sallywin

cricketfan wrote: »

Believe me I'm keeping the cynical thoughts well under check at interview. I agree we've got to put just the positive steps out there when you're sitting across from the table with 3/4 people who have the role to make such a change in your life for the next 2/5/10 years or more.

My trouble is - I'm at an interview trying to appear keen and enthusiastic, interested in the role (and that's genuine), then I look across the table and I am mostly seeing bored faces who if anything look like they don't want to even be in the room. After one such experience just after the interview finished I was escorted back to the lift. Once I got in there, on my own, I broke down. I just felt deep down this was some sort of set up and this crowd were just going through the motions. Equal opportunities, my arse.

See here cricketfan:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=62583

Some great tips for the interview. It's hard for us to say anything more as we don't know what jobs you are going for nor do we know what quals, exp, you have and all that, but if you can could you do a few hours voluntary work in a place that would stand to you experience wise and get you a new contact and reference? Not sure if you have already done that though.

Other than that, you do seem tenacious, so why not start brainstorming about what you really want to achieve in life, visualise the success, and get a plan B going as well. something to do before you get the great job for example, such as the voluntary work, or would you ever want to create your own business and add value to the country that way? You seem like that would suit you!

sallywin

cricketfan wrote: »

If it's not sarcasm and you genuinely believe that, then what hope is there for the rest of us. Does fairness mean anything. Answer. No.

There are many nice things about this country but this type of thing is not one of them. Are you also saying that not having a degree is a hindrance to getting a job in whatever you do?

Cricketfan: avoid conflict! Esp on an internet forum it won't get you anywhere. Focus on anything positive, that's all you have to do.

Eoin

Gurgle wrote: »

Couldn't agree more, there is even a case to say Nepotism can be a better strategy for recruitment.
If you hire someone you know personally, you know he is a hard worker and smart enough to handle the situations involved in the job.
When you hire a stranger based on qualifications, (apparent) experience and interview skills, you're still taking a chance on whether they're any actual use to the organization.

I think there should be a distinction made between hiring / promoting someone you know is good, and handing out jobs to friends & family because they're your friends and family, not because they're good. The latter is how I define nepotism, the former is just common sense.

No matter how many rounds of interviews you might do, there's still a chance that the person you hire is a weirdo / very proficient bullsh1t artist / nervous wreck / whatever. If you know someone that would be a good match for the job, you'd be an idiot not to take that into account.

Mike87

cricketfan wrote: »

If it's not sarcasm and you genuinely believe that, then what hope is there for the rest of us. Does fairness mean anything. Answer. No.

There are many nice things about this country but this type of thing is not one of them. Are you also saying that not having a degree is a hindrance to getting a job in whatever you do?

You seem to be missing the point.

I wouldnt have had much of a fair chance of getting my current job if I wasnt fishing buddies with man doing the hiring and firing. Somebody else with a degree would probably have my job and Id be unemployed right now. I dont see much fairness in that. Just because somebody is college qualified doesnt automatically mean they deserve a job more then I do.

MrTsSnickers

Mike87 wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point.

I wouldnt have had much of a fair chance of getting my current job if I wasnt fishing buddies with man doing the hiring and firing. Somebody else with a degree would probably have my job and Id be unemployed right now. I dont see much fairness in that. Just because somebody is college qualified doesnt automatically mean they deserve a job more then I do.

Just because you fish with that guy doesn't mean you deserve a job more than someone with a degree and appropriate experience.

christmas2012

nepotism is everywhere in ireland and it still works when youre looking for a job,i think in ireland its impossible to get a job without knowing someone who knows someone or being buddys with the guy whos doing the hiring and firing as above..

Eoin

christmas2012 wrote: »

nepotism is everywhere in ireland and it still works when youre looking for a job,i think in ireland its impossible to get a job without knowing someone who knows someone or being buddys with the guy whos doing the hiring and firing as above..

It might exist, but it's not everywhere and it's not impossible to get a job without knowing someone. That's a gross generalisation.

Volunteering gets you know in an organization so when a job comes up you are known. Being the right fit for an organization is very important in the not for profit sector which leads employers to be very careful about who they employ. Almost all of the people I work with got there job because of a work placement from college or from volunteering. Organizations that are funded by the government/HSC cant offer permanent contractors at the moment and a temporary contract is a job after all.

You can request feed back from an interview and you should ask for that.

caff

christmas2012 wrote: »

nepotism is everywhere in ireland and it still works when youre looking for a job,i think in ireland its impossible to get a job without knowing someone who knows someone or being buddys with the guy whos doing the hiring and firing as above..

I got my current job without knowing anyone, out of people I know I can only think of one who got a job because they knew someone who did the hiring and firing.

Gurgle

Mike87 wrote: »

You seem to be missing the point.... Just because somebody is college qualified doesnt automatically mean they deserve a job more then I do.

Well, actually...that's exactly what 'qualified' means.

You imply that you're working in a job where there should be a qualified professional. This being the case, Mr Fishing Buddy should lose his job for being recklessly irresponsible.

<The following is fictitious. I know nothing about you or your job>
Derron Brown impression:
This isn't the case. You work in.... IT, doing... network admin and support. Your fishing buddy is the owner & manager of a small company where a qualified IT professional would be wasted anyway.... how am I doing?

Gurgle

I have never had a job where 'knowing someone' got me in. I did get a recommendation for my current job from a former colleague who got here first, but that just got my CV straight to management without the curse of recruitment agencies.

cricketfan

Gurgle, well I guess that has to go down as getting some help. I'm seeing both sides of the coin here.

I would think though most people who got a start somewhere probably won't want to advertise it too much.

Before I opened this thread yesterday I have asked as many people as I know to tell me if they've experienced it. OK, it's not scientific but it came out about 50/50.

We're a small country and you do tend to bump into the same people time and time again particularly if you stay broadly in the one professional sector and I think people are comfortable with someone they know rather than taking a chance on an outsider.

Unfortunately for me at the moment in life it is like I just cannot get membership of an exclusive club.

Mr. Loverman

cricketfan wrote: »

Unfortunately for me at the moment in life it is like I just cannot get membership of an exclusive club.

I'm sorry, but this is not the reason you cannot get a job. I know you want to believe it's the reason, and nothing I say will change your mind, but you are holding yourself back by believing this fallacy.

Write a good cover letter, write a good CV, get some interview training, and in general try to be more optimistic; things will eventually work out for you.

Mike87

MrTsSnickers wrote: »

Just because you fish with that guy doesn't mean you deserve a job more than someone with a degree and appropriate experience.

I didnt say I deserve it more. We deserve it every bit as much. Im just saying I dont see why some people look down there noses at somebody when they realise that the person got their job because the knew someone. I just think its very begrudging.

Gurgle... close but no cigar I have a network position in a bank. Before that I was teaching. Both of those jobs came from fishing buddies, no fancy college degree needed

Sappa

It happens with every society not just Ireland.
A Polish supervisor in my wifes friends hotel,gets most of the job openings filled by his relatives in Poland,as soon as a job opens up he flys them in and they start that week.
When the Irish go to America,they use there contacts,it's how Ireland works and it's how every other nation works.

misterdeeds

Yes my last 3 jobs were from phone calls and had no experience whatsoever I spoke to complete strangers on all 3 occasions and got all 3 jobs , starting a new job soon and it is in the same industury as my first job all thanks to a phone call

As the saying goes its who you know not what you know

ps: This still goes on in Ireland to this day

spacecookie555

Mike87 wrote: »

I didnt say I deserve it more. We deserve it every bit as much. Im just saying I dont see why some people look down there noses at somebody when they realise that the person got their job because the knew someone. I just think its very begrudging.

Gurgle... close but no cigar I have a network position in a bank. Before that I was teaching. Both of those jobs came from fishing buddies, no fancy college degree needed

One of the explanations as to why the banks failed right there!! You get qualified for a reason so you're certified that you have the education and intelligence to be able to do the job, and what could you possibly teach without an education??? Knitting??? :eek:

Mr. Loverman

spacecookie555 wrote: »

One of the explanations as to why the banks failed right there!! You get qualified for a reason so you're certified that you have the education and intelligence to be able to do the job, and what could you possibly teach without an education??? Knitting??? :eek:

I'm pretty sure a bank's IT department aren't responsible for handing out mortgages...

Gurgle

Mike87 wrote: »

I have a network position in a bank. Before that I was teaching. Both of those jobs came from fishing buddies, no fancy college degree needed

Banks, I can't say I'm surprised. But then I wouldn't be surprised to hear the entire back-office has been operated entirely by Labrador puppies for the last 20 years.

Is that teaching in the sense of a class of kids in a state funded school?
Please give more details, I know some nice people who would be interested to hear of this.

Minevah

Everyone in my office either previously worked for the company and came back or else their relative works in a different department!

Me,I'm the odd one out....didn't know a soul in the company when I started! So it is possible...

Mike87

Gurgle wrote: »

Is that teaching in the sense of a class of kids in a state funded school?
Please give more details, I know some nice people who would be interested to hear of this.

Nope. Delivering IT courses for a private company.

Let me get this straight Spacecookie, are you really trying to say that a person couldnt possibly be educated unless they have a college degree? :rolleyes:

spacecookie555

Mike87 wrote: »

Nope. Delivering IT courses for a private company.

Let me get this straight Spacecookie, are you really trying to say that a person couldnt possibly be educated unless they have a college degree? :rolleyes:

Not at all and theres no need to generalise, my father hasnt got a college degree but has about 30years experience in building but someone who studied it and got a degree in it but has about 5years experience would get the job first, in that case imo thats just ridiculous but in the case where you will be teaching people or working in a position that requires a lot of skills that in fairness you wouldn't pick up through normal life then yes you should get an education. The reason why Ireland is starting to cop on is because people are getting more educated and we won't keep growing unless it continues.
The way you refered to a degree above is quite sad imo "a fancy college degree" whats so fancy about the fact that you wanted to better your job skills so you could have a chance of getting into a higher paid job someday?? I have no problem with someone who hasnt got a degree but can actually do their job very well but im sick of walking into places where sometimes even the receptionists are incapable of using a computer because they never learned and some sadly never will because they have the same attitude that they don't need a "fancy" education.
Knowledge is power and theres nothing "fancy" about trying to get more.

Mike87

spacecookie555 wrote: »

Not at all and theres no need to generalise, my father hasnt got a college degree but has about 30years experience in building but someone who studied it and got a degree in it but has about 5years experience would get the job first, in that case imo thats just ridiculous but in the case where you will be teaching people or working in a position that requires a lot of skills that in fairness you wouldn't pick up through normal life then yes you should get an education. The reason why Ireland is starting to cop on is because people are getting more educated and we won't keep growing unless it continues.
The way you refered to a degree above is quite sad imo "a fancy college degree" whats so fancy about the fact that you wanted to better your job skills so you could have a chance of getting into a higher paid job someday?? I have no problem with someone who hasnt got a degree but can actually do their job very well but im sick of walking into places where sometimes even the receptionists are incapable of using a computer because they never learned and some sadly never will because they have the same attitude that they don't need a "fancy" education.
Knowledge is power and theres nothing "fancy" about trying to get more.

It would be a huge waste for me to go back to college. It would be like asking your father to go to college to get a degree in building even though he has 30+ years of hands on experience.

THe problem is, when you apply for a job the first thing they ask is "whats your degree in.... oh you dont have a degree, sorry, we arent accepting applications from ehhh....your sort". WHich boggles the mind since anyone fresh from college (without a few years experience) wouldnt last 2 minutes in my job (specifically network security).

So yeh, I still stand by my original statement. I think me knowing the person doing the hiring/firing makes up for the fact that you have a college degree and I dont.

And I dont see why everyone is getting so uppety with me. Do yous begrudge me my job that much? Would you rather if I give up work and went on the dole?

Mr. Loverman

Well the things a college degree prove are:

a) you can commit to things
b) you can see things through
c) you can get with the programme
d) you probably aren't a complete moron

But a degree doesn't guarantee d).

I've worked with some brilliant people who had a degree, and some brilliant people who didn't have a degree.

Mike87

Mr. Loverman wrote: »

Well the things a college degree prove are:

a) you can commit to things
b) you can see things through
c) you can get with the programme
d) you probably aren't a complete moron

But a degree doesn't guarantee d).

I've worked with some brilliant people who had a degree, and some brilliant people who didn't have a degree.

Not sure if that was directed at me.

1) A degree is handy for begining your career and thats about it.
2) A degree (in IT anyway) is just the beginning. You dont get a degree and say "right thats my education finished"
3) When I apply for senior networking roles and I get told "no degree- no interview" its like been told "if you werent at playschool then no interview"
4) Irish people have an absolute fixation on college degrees and it really pisses me off.
5) I have worked abroad in other countries and I could always say "no I dont have a degree, but I do have these other specialised qualifications along with 10 years experience" and that would be fine. Doesnt work in Ireland.
6) If you havent got a degree, and finding it hard to get a job take up fishing. Its the new golf.

spacecookie555

Mike87 wrote: »

It would be a huge waste for me to go back to college. It would be like asking your father to go to college to get a degree in building even though he has 30+ years of hands on experience.

THe problem is, when you apply for a job the first thing they ask is "whats your degree in.... oh you dont have a degree, sorry, we arent accepting applications from ehhh....your sort". WHich boggles the mind since anyone fresh from college (without a few years experience) wouldnt last 2 minutes in my job (specifically network security).

So yeh, I still stand by my original statement. I think me knowing the person doing the hiring/firing makes up for the fact that you have a college degree and I dont.

And I dont see why everyone is getting so uppety with me. Do yous begrudge me my job that much? Would you rather if I give up work and went on the dole?

I agree with you that its not necessary in every job, some are just silly but others are unbelievably necessary not so long ago healthcare assistants were working without qualifications, they had no official training, most got the job because of a friend or reference.
This meant that they did not know proper procedure, legally they werent allowed do half the jobs they were doing such as putting people into hoists, bathing them etc... so you had people who were looking after the vulnerable, old, sick, disabled, etc... who werent even trained to do so. How would you feel about someone caring for you or a relative of yours when sick who wasn't even qualified, scary or what?

It has only come in recently that they HAVE to get their Fetac level 5 now in Health Service Skills even if they are working as a healthcare assistant for the last 40years to qualify for the job anymore and rightly so. There were so many cases of neglect, abuse etc.. going on in nursing homes that was recently uncovered and a lot of people that were abusing or neglecting were found to not be qualified or even in some cases not be garda vetted, at least now if you have to get qualified first you will mostly have people who actually want to care for people, you wont have as many who just want a job to pay the bills. Qualifications for a job also tends to weed out those who really have no interest in the job and just see it as a means to an end so will not put the proper effort in or actually bother to even do things right. In this case thank God Ireland got obsessed with qualifications and degrees.

Gurgle

Mike87 wrote: »

Nope. Delivering IT courses for a private company.

Ah, fair enough.
I wouldn't see that as a graduate job tbh, the technical skills are very much secondary to the ability to explain stuff well.

Personality > Qualification

Gurgle

Mike87 wrote: »

It would be a huge waste for me to go back to college...

I think me knowing the person doing the hiring/firing makes up for the fact that you have a college degree and I dont.

It has worked for you so far, but do you have an reliable queue of people who a) can offer you your next job, and b) put fishing buddies above qualified staff?

Enough to get you from here (whatever age) to 68?

Mike87 wrote: »

I dont see why everyone is getting so uppety with me. Do yous begrudge me my job that much? Would you rather if I give up work and went on the dole?

Not at all, fair play to you. This skill at making friends (and presumably some kind of ability to do the jobs) is the lynchpin that's keeping you employed.