Are we losing our freedom?

Tzar Chasm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

You raised it, so perhaps you should back it up? Or acknowledge that we haven't lost any freedoms, and have gained the freedom to use the internet? And travel and work wherever we want within the expanded EU?

Well, we have the ability to travl as long as we have our papers in order, which isnt how it was supposed to be, Fredom of movement was supposed to be just that, but it isnt, its rather restrictive and you can now be blacklisted, you have a sort of limited freedom of speech on the internet so long as you dont say anything that upsets someone else or you will be blacklisted, you can now be followed by Camera through the centres of most major cities without your knowledge, your movements can be tracked and recorded almost anywhere in the country, We are no longer allowed to smoke in Bars, the speed limit has been lowered on many roads and Gatso vans sit in wait to rob you of money, you cant sit outside and have a beer in many areas, what we eat is being regulated heavily, I can no longer sell potatoes on the side of the road to suplement an income without first paying an excessive amount of money to some government thieves, cant take gravel from the beach, cant take seaweed from the beach, cant camp on the shore, cant sail out to my favourite little islands and spend the afternoon drinking and partying with my friends, cant ride a bicycle without some stupid helmet and reflective vest thingy, cant herd cattle along the road, cant operate a small joinery business from my shed without excessive Health and safety rigmarole, cant climb along the rocks, cant burn rubbish, cant use the lower bog as a landfill site, have to jump through hoops before I put my tractor on the road, cant keep an old jaloppy for just runnin up to the fields,cant photograph local underage sporting events, cant sail back from the pub after a good session

off the top of my head theres a few fredoms we've lost

but anyway thats a topic for a different thread

Monty Burnz

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Well, we have the ability to travl as long as we have our papers in order, which isnt how it was supposed to be, Fredom of movement was supposed to be just that, but it isnt, its rather restrictive and you can now be blacklisted,

Not true - Ireland opted out of the Schengen agreement in order to preserve the common travel area with Britain. Once you get to mainland Europe you can travel from Spain all the way to Bulgaria without once being asked for papers.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

you have a sort of limited freedom of speech on the internet so long as you dont say anything that upsets someone else or you will be blacklisted,

Like what? Can you cite examples of people who have been 'blacklisted'? What are the consequences of being blacklisted?

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

you can now be followed by Camera through the centres of most major cities without your knowledge,

Great - anyone who mugs or robs me has a better chance of being caught.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

your movements can be tracked and recorded almost anywhere in the country,

Really? How?

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

We are no longer allowed to smoke in Bars,

That increased my freedoms and those of most people. The freedom to socialise and work without air pollution - great!

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

the speed limit has been lowered on many roads and Gatso vans sit in wait to rob you of money,

Road deaths have halved.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

you cant sit outside and have a beer in many areas,

Areas where drinking causes problems for residents? Oh no!

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

what we eat is being regulated heavily,

Good.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

cant take gravel from the beach, cant take seaweed from the beach, cant camp on the shore,

Good - I value our environment.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

cant sail out to my favourite little islands and spend the afternoon drinking and partying with my friends,

I must have missed that law?

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

cant ride a bicycle without some stupid helmet and reflective vest thingy,

Strange, I always cycle without a helmet, never had a problem. One of us must be wrong.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

cant herd cattle along the road, cant operate a small joinery business from my shed without excessive Health and safety rigmarole, cant climb along the rocks, cant burn rubbish, cant use the lower bog as a landfill site, have to jump through hoops before I put my tractor on the road, cant keep an old jaloppy for just runnin up to the fields,cant photograph local underage sporting events, cant sail back from the pub after a good session

Lots of health and safety and environmental stuff there. I don't know who told you you couldn't drive an old car in your own land? When did it become illegal to climb on rocks?

The only thing I agree with you on is the photography stuff - and that's not a law either, is it?

Tzar Chasm

I'd be interested in having a debate with you and others on the topic of Lost freedoms as I think you are blindly wrong in your position, I might ask a Mod to split off the posts, or we could just copt and paste them into another thread, either way its a seperate discussion much like your Goading the OP about his religious preferences in the last few posts.

I am going to bed now, cos its a qurter past one and I have stuff to do inthe morning, but if we are to have that debate might I ask you to try and find an essay called
'in defence of Scoundrels'
its been a few years since I read it but it really does outline why you are so wrong in the position you espouse regarding the raft of new regulations that have been foisted upon us

Goodnight and God Bless

studiorat

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I'd be interested in having a debate with you and others on the topic of Lost freedoms as I think you are blindly wrong in your position, I might ask a Mod to split off the posts, or we could just copt and paste them into another thread, either way its a seperate discussion much like your Goading the OP about his religious preferences in the last few posts.

That sounds like a good discussion. But firstly you need to define freedom. Some of your previous post cited personal freedoms which could in fact infringe on someone else's liberty. For instance complaining about CCTV and at the same time complaining you can't take photographs at a kid's sports day could be contradictory. Perhaps the Coast Guard would like some freedom on his Saturday night instead of spending the night looking for you because you were pissed when you fell overboard.

There's two interesting concepts called positive and negative liberty. I heard of them first reading Isiah Berlin.

Have a look : http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/liberty-positive-negative/

Freedom is paradox, because it usually involves the removal of someone else's freedom. Have a look at the Afterhours thread on Junkies and see if people actually have any regard for freedom.

BTW The helmet on the bike thing is not true, though plenty of motorists want it in the law. So they are free to drive faster perhaps!

RoboClam

Made a new thread, so please continue the discussion of specific loss of freedom in Ireland here and not the North Korea thread.

Run_to_da_hills

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Once you get to mainland Europe you can travel from Spain all the way to Bulgaria without once being asked for papers.

Not true, on the continent you must carry ID on you at all times. You may not be asked for it at port of entry but you can be damn sure if you don't have ID on you on person you can be arrested as I had once learned the hard way in Barcelona when I left my passport behind at the apartment.

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not true, on the continent you must carry ID on you at all times. You may not be asked for it at port of entry but you can be damn sure if you don't have ID on you on person you can be arrested as I had once learned the hard way in Barcelona when I left my passport behind at the apartment.

I don't carry any ID with me. I've never been asked for it either.

Jonny7

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not true, on the continent you must carry ID on you at all times. You may not be asked for it at port of entry but you can be damn sure if you don't have ID on you on person you can be arrested as I had once learned the hard way in Barcelona when I left my passport behind at the apartment.

Stop being so alarmist. I've lived on the continent for years, crossed borders all the time (sometimes up to twice a week), think I've been asked for my passport twice in all that time.

Quatermain

Simply put, it's an awful lot more advantageous to stop people from doing dangerous or unsavoury things than it is to clean up the mess once they are inevitably brought to book. You are genuinely complaining about your lack of a right to endanger yourself, others, and the environment with reckless behaviour, which is a little baffling.

Run_to_da_hills

Monty Burnz wrote: »

I don't carry any ID with me. I've never been asked for it either.

Then if you are living in a country that requires it to be carried on you at all times you are breaking the law.

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Then if you are living in a country that requires it to be carried on you at all times you are breaking the law.

No I'm not. The police can only ask for my ID if they suspect me of a crime. If they do ask, and I refuse to show them ID, they can hold me for 12 hours to establish whether I am who I say I am.

What a crazy, draconian system... :rolleyes:

Run_to_da_hills

Monty Burnz wrote: »

No I'm not. The police can only ask for my ID if they suspect me of a crime. If they do ask, and I refuse to show them ID, they can hold me for 12 hours to establish whether I am who I say I am.

What a crazy, draconian system... :rolleyes:

That answer is totally irrelevant to my previous point.

If you live on continental Europe you must have ID on you at all times if you are in a public place and you must produce it to the authorities if requested whether you are suspected of criminal activity or not.

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Than that answer is totally irrelevant to my previous answer.

If you live on continental Europe you must have ID on you at all times if you are in a public place and you must produce it to the authorities when required whether you are suspected of criminal activity or not.

That is simply not true. I live on continental Europe.

paddyandy

Monty :Most of what you said is correct but i have been barred from three sites for being too succinct in my comments .Breaking News and Irish Central are two and i've learned that raves and rants are welcome But don't be too clear ....people including business interests simply don't like it .I did'nt break any rules .My comments went too deeply into wounds already open .

Monty Burnz

paddyandy wrote: »

Monty :Most of what you said is correct but i have been barred from three sites for being too succinct in my comments .Breaking News and Irish Central are two and i've learned that raves and rants are welcome But don't be too clear ....people including business interests simply don't like it .I did'nt break any rules .My comments went too deeply into wounds already open .

That's unfortunate, but remember that that has nothing to do with the state or the legal framework. Those people exercised a freedom to ban you from their sites. Should they have that freedom curtailed?

On the plus side, you are free to establish a site or blog of your own.

IngazZagni

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

That answer is totally irrelevant to my previous point.

If you live on continental Europe you must have ID on you at all times if you are in a public place and you must produce it to the authorities if requested whether you are suspected of criminal activity or not.

I live in continental Europe and I almost never carry around an ID with me. I'm such a rebel!!! :rolleyes: Law or not common sense should prevail on such an issue as this and if they (authorities) really need to know your identity which probably means you have been causing trouble then you probably deserve to be taken downtown for some questioning anyway.

LeinsterDub

Freedoms are created and destroyed all the time by changes in society and technology . In the past you where free to smoke where ever you liked but couldn't but contraception. I think we are fundamentally more free now than in the past.

Torakx

Dont know what you guys mean about not needing passports.
Whenever i have gotten a plane to Spain or Germany for example, ive always needed a passport.
Also got a traveling in europe leaflet in the door recently that informed me Ireland arent in the schengen agreeement.
I always thought we were ,but apparently not according to this leaflet.

Monty Burnz

Torakx wrote: »

Dont know what you guys mean about not needing passports.
Whenever i have gotten a plane to Spain or Germany for example, ive always needed a passport.
Also got a traveling in europe leaflet in the door recently that informed me Ireland arent in the schengen agreeement.
I always thought we were ,but apparently not according to this leaflet.

That is because - as I explained earlier - we opted out of the Schengen agreement.

Sonics2k

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Well, we have the ability to travl as long as we have our papers in order, which isnt how it was supposed to be, Fredom of movement was supposed to be just that, but it isnt, its rather restrictive and you can now be blacklisted

By papers in order, I'm assuming you mean a Passport and maybe a Visa if you're going inter-continental. I'd not really consider this a restriction of freedom, just a standard form of bureaucracy.
It's not as if just anyone would be blacklisted, it would take some form of criminal record (usually big stuff) or in very rare circumstances, some political stances.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

you have a sort of limited freedom of speech on the internet so long as you dont say anything that upsets someone else or you will be blacklisted

I'm not sure what you mean here?
I suppose you could be referring to some forums and sites banning users for breaches of their ToU, but these are privately owned sites. So it's not really limiting freedom. You could always set up your own forums and let people say whatever they wish?

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

you can now be followed by Camera through the centres of most major cities without your knowledge, your movements can be tracked and recorded almost anywhere in the country

Anywhere in the country? No, not at all. Around Dublin City, Cork City and other major cities, yes.
They're called security cameras, and they're used to detect people who may have robbed a store, mugged someone on the street or committed other crimes. You'd have to be insane to truly believe they track everyone's motions, and actually give a crap about people doing some shopping or going to work in the morning. Should you ever be unfortunate enough to be mugged around the city, you'll be happy that the cameras can pick up the face of your attacker. I know I was.
But again, they don't affect my freedoms at all, or yours.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

We are no longer allowed to smoke in Bars

Total health and safety.
I'm a smoker and agreed with the ban. Though I would of preferred if each bar was given a choice depending on ventilation in the building.
But again, you can still smoke if you want. Just step outside the door with the rest of us and have a grand time.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

the speed limit has been lowered on many roads and Gatso vans sit in wait to rob you of money

And with the lowering of the speed limit, road deaths have dropped quite nicely. And the vans will only give you a ticket if you break the speed limit. So they're hardly "robbing" you now, are they?

I can't actually be bothered to go over the rest, as not one of them infringes on personal freedoms, or restricted our freedom as a society.

paddyandy

There are new freedoms around like noise just about everywhere you go in dublin .Muzak in every store and on buses .Bicycles on pavements .Beggars with their legs stretched across pavements then there are the Boards advertising across the paths of pedestrians . Prices on shelves in shops that are difficult to see and wrongly positioned .
Freedom without laws is bondage .A truism always .

Run_to_da_hills

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

Brussels wants e-identities for EU citizens.

EU deal to share air travellers' data with US given the green light

EU security proposals are 'dangerously authoritarian'

EU to crack down on cross-border driving offences

EU funding 'Orwellian' artificial intelligence plan to monitor public for "abnormal behaviour" :

UK Farmers furious at EU's RFID microchip implant sheep scheme.

European Union police data sharing plans come into force in 2011.

EU demands Internet records to be stored for a year

EU’s war on terror authorizes spying on cell phones

And god only knows what these elite will try to push through after the next false flag bomb attack. :eek:

hooradiation

Well, if there's one thing totalitarian oppressive regimes are known for, it's letting everyone know what terrible things they're up to.

Kinda like how cartoon super villains will stop to divulge the entire of their plan to the plucky hero at the slightest provocation.

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

Brussels wants e-identities for EU citizens.

EU deal to share air travellers' data with US given the green light

EU security proposals are 'dangerously authoritarian'

EU to crack down on cross-border driving offences

EU funding 'Orwellian' artificial intelligence plan to monitor public for "abnormal behaviour" :

UK Farmers furious at EU's RFID microchip implant sheep scheme.

European Union police data sharing plans come into force in 2011.

EU demands Internet records to be stored for a year

EU’s war on terror authorizes spying on cell phones

And god only knows what these elite will try to push through after the next false flag bomb attack. :eek:

If you notice, this is all 'the EU WILL' and 'the EU IS GOING TO'. Nothing about what the EU has actually done.

Scare stories, in other words.

Run_to_da_hills

Monty Burnz wrote: »

If you notice, this is all 'the EU WILL' and 'the EU IS GOING TO'. Nothing about what the EU has actually done.

Scare stories, in other words.

I think if you even bothered reading through them you will find many of these have been discussed and put through passed several years ago.

BTW IU forgot to mention SOPA Atca and all those other internet privacy related directives.

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I think if you even bothered reading through them you will find many of these have been discussed and put through passed several years ago.

Yes, and as I recall THE SKY FELL IN!!

No, wait, nothing has changed.

Run_to_da_hills

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Yes, and as I recall THE SKY FELL IN!!

No, wait, nothing has changed.

Obviously.

They don't want to freak out their sheeple just yet.

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Obviously.

They don't want to freak out their sheeple just yet.

'They'?

I thought Obama, the Anti-Christ, would be sorting us all out in the next 4 years anyway? 'They' (whoever they are) would want to get a move on.

By the way, 'Sheeple' is a very discredited word these days.

Run_to_da_hills

Monty Burnz wrote: »

'They'?

I thought Obama, the Anti-Christ, would be sorting us all out in the next 4 years anyway? 'They' (whoever they are) would want to get a move on.

Quit trying to drag threads off topic like you always seem to have a habit of doing.

hooradiation

You do realise we can read the text you've used the strike through tag on, right?

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Quit trying to drag threads off topic like you always seem to have a habit of doing.

I don't understand how you can make claim 'A' in one thread, and argue vociferously for it, and then make claim 'B' in another thread that clearly undermines or contradicts claim 'A', and argue vociferously for that too.

Surely claims you yourself make about our future enslavement are relevant to other claims that you make on the same subject, and hence on topic?

humanji

Run_To_Da_Hills, stop backseat moderating, and striking out an insult doesn't mean you're getting away with saying it.

Joshua J

Another example of bizzaro world. Rights ain't given only taken away. The rights we have are only due to less restrictions under certain circumstances.

hooradiation

Joshua J wrote: »

Another example of bizzaro world. Rights ain't given only taken away. The rights we have are only due to less restrictions under certain circumstances.

Is this inherently a bad thing though?

We do place limits on peoples freedoms in order to have a working society - for example, murder is verboten. Everything after that is a matter of degrees, surely?

One could argue that we may have overstepped our bounds in certain areas, but conversely we've certainly loosened them in others. And on top of that isn't any society going to constantly readjust what is acceptable over time?

Isn't the idea of a universal standard of 'freedom' a bit of a fallacy in light of that?


(I realise this is slipping from CT to philosophy 101, but it's probably still on topic)

Joshua J

hooradiation wrote: »

Is this inherently a bad thing though?

We do place limits on peoples freedoms in order to have a working society - for example, murder is verboten. Everything after that is a matter of degrees, surely?

One could argue that we may have overstepped our bounds in certain areas, but conversely we've certainly loosened them in others. And on top of that isn't any society going to constantly readjust what is acceptable over time?

Isn't the idea of a universal standard of 'freedom' a bit of a fallacy in light of that?


(I realise this is slipping from CT to philosophy 101, but it's probably still on topic)

I agree mostly. The OP asked are we losing our freedom and I'm just pointing out that to lose something you had to have it in the first place. Society places restrictions from birth so few people on this planet are truly free. The law books grow by the year so how can more laws equal greater freedom?. It's a bit of a contradiction. Is it inherently a bad thing?. I don't know. Can anybody describe true freedom?.

In saying that if you want a functioning societal organism then certain things need to be restricted. Is society the be all and end all of existence though?. *roots out fountainhead*

/philosiphising lol

Monty Burnz

Joshua J wrote: »

I agree mostly. The OP asked are we losing our freedom and I'm just pointing out that to lose something you had to have it in the first place. Society places restrictions from birth so few people on this planet are truly free. The law books grow by the year so how can more laws equal greater freedom?

But many laws restrict the freedom of one group to grant them to others. The anti-smoking laws are a perfect example - smokers lost the right to smoke wherever they like, but everyone gained the right to a pollution-free workplace.

hooradiation

Joshua J wrote: »

The law books grow by the year so how can more laws equal greater freedom?.

Well, it would depend on the laws, rather than the volume. I mean would a law that made it illegal to discriminate on basis of gender 'weigh' the same as a law not allowing people to, say burn their rubbish in their back garden?

And I do realise that those aren't comparable, it's the point. Simple totting up the number of laws is no real measure of anything other than the number of laws on the books.

Joshua J wrote: »

It's a bit of a contradiction. Is it inherently a bad thing?. I don't know. Can anybody describe true freedom?.

You'd have better luck describing colour to a blind man, I think.

Joshua J wrote: »

In saying that if you want a functioning societal organism then certain things need to be restricted. Is society the be all and end all of existence though?. *roots out fountainhead*

/philosiphising lol

Well, we've constantly gravitated towards making them, Ms Rands terrible books notwithstanding, I guess it's our default state.
No man is an Island and all that.

The only real question is the size of those societies - I think we do tend to move towards larger groupings but that doesn't suit everyone.
Fucked if I know what the solution to that is, though.

studiorat

Joshua J wrote: »

In saying that if you want a functioning societal organism then certain things need to be restricted. Is society the be all and end all of existence though?. *roots out fountainhead*

/philosiphising lol

It depends on whether you think freedom is a societal entity or an individualistic entity. Should freedom or liberty apply primarily to the individual or to society?

And furthermore is freedom merely the absence of obstacles rather than autonomy and self-realization.

Joshua J

studiorat wrote: »

It depends on whether you think freedom is a societal entity or an individualistic entity. Should freedom or liberty apply primarily to the individual or to society?

Well I don't think freedom could be a societal entity cause by definition society is based on restriction. Freedom and liberty can only be granted by the individual to oneself. I think you're asking do the needs of the many outway the needs of the few (please corr. if wrong) then I would say if you want a happy functioing society then yes. If you want a happy individual the no.

P.s Hoora, Ms Rand couldn't even follow her own philosiphy dying a bitter old woman. She missed a very important aspect that sometimes what you want most can only be given by someone else and if they're not willing then it breaks down. Maybe the only way to be is to be happy with what you have. If you can do that then let me know how lol.

gibraltar

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Not true, on the continent you must carry ID on you at all times. You may not be asked for it at port of entry but you can be damn sure if you don't have ID on you on person you can be arrested as I had once learned the hard way in Barcelona when I left my passport behind at the apartment.

Been asked for ID in Spain and Italy, was a witness to something both times, had no passport or ID on my and was no problem at all, just gave my details and the police said goodbye and wished me well.

Run_to_da_hills

gibraltar wrote: »

Been asked for ID in Spain and Italy, was a witness to something both times, had no passport or ID on my and was no problem at all, just gave my details and the police said goodbye and wished me well.

My case was different, I was awaiting a train at Santes station Barcelona. Two detectives approached me and produced their shields asking me for ID of which I had left it at the apartment. They then searched and interrogated me in public, took down any details such as credit card numbers etc. After about an hour When they had finished I cancelled anything I had as I wouldn't trust them as far as I would throw them.

I knew of another guy that got a e200 fine and after getting involved a row outside a night club. He demanded a receipt from the cops . When he returned home he got someone to translate the receipt which turned out to be a fine for e200 for pi**ing in public, something he denies outright. More than likely this cash was pocketed.

This is one reason why I would be concerned about EU data sharing among police forces across the EU where there are known cases of corrupt police forces.

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

This is one reason why I would be concerned about EU data sharing among police forces across the EU where there are known cases of corrupt police forces.

So you are talking all of the negatives of EU membership (e.g. exposure to potentially dodgy cops in Spain) and ignoring all the benefits (e.g. the right to be in Spain at all).

studiorat

Joshua J wrote: »

Well I don't think freedom could be a societal entity cause by definition society is based on restriction. Freedom and liberty can only be granted by the individual to oneself.

But society is the human condition. There's always been society, humans don't exist outside it. I don't believe in a 'state of nature'. We enter into a social contract either tacitly or explicitly and should have the freedom to choose who governs that society.

Joshua J wrote: »

I think you're asking do the needs of the many outway the needs of the few (please corr. if wrong) then I would say if you want a happy functioing society then yes. If you want a happy individual the no.

You must be wrong, I never quote Star Trek. But I think it would fair to say that every act that benefits or adds to the liberty of the whole of the society also benefits the individual. The reverse is not always true.

studiorat

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

They then searched and interrogated me in public, took down any details such as credit card numbers etc.

You have credit cards?!?!? :eek::eek::eek:

Contributing to the cashless society!!!

TRAITOR!!!!!

Monty Burnz

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Yes, Things were far better off the old way with independent sovereign nations, for starters these countries had far more control over their finances and could control immigration.

The EU has totally destroyed Europe, the only real benefit we have in this country is the roll out of motorway (Which no doubt will soon be e_tagged per usage) and the back pockets of the elite that so far has benefited from it. BTW I had to produce my passport and fill out a declaration form entering Spain last year.

Totally disagree. The EU has brought unprecedented unity, wealth and peace to a continent that has been at war for thousands of years. Many of the new rights and environmental protections we enjoy today can be traced directly to the EU and its predecessors. Sure, it's not perfect, but it's much better than the second-world, backward, poverty-stricken, ignorant priest-ridden hell-hole this country was until the 70s.

I was in Spain 2 months ago, didn't even have to show a passport (I flew from within Schengen zone). You seem to be remarkably unlucky when you travel!

Run_to_da_hills

studiorat wrote: »

You have credit cards?!?!? :eek::eek::eek:

Contributing to the cashless society!!!

TRAITOR!!!!!

I have had them since 1989.

I also have an RFID Smart card in my wallet. :eek:

studiorat

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

I have had them since 1989.

I also have an RFID Smart card in my wallet. :eek:

A spy? Good man...
Secret's safe with me.

Tzar Chasm

Fvck, this has spiraled out of hands already, I had a look in at lunch and should have commented then.

First off, to those who claim they've never been IDchecked in europe, might I make the presumption that ye are clean cut, well dressed, don't ascosiate with known political activists and above all Have WHITE skin?

Just an observation, but I normally dress well and am conscious of my appearance in public, I was in kopenhagen some years ago , first few days were fine, but then I got talking to some people from kristania and decided to mooch out there for a look, needless to say I stood out like a sore thumb wearing a shirt and jacket, the rest of the trip was a markedly different experience
I was even stopped in the street on a trip to malmo,searched and quized about my intentions.

You are free to do as you are told, just try to step outside the lines.

I met a girl from frankfurt on another occasion in holland, one thing led to another an seeing as i was already on the continent we decided to head back to her place, I was the foreigner but because her mother was vietnamese she was the one singled out when we traveled through the airport, some of the cops were rather surprised that she spoke fluent german and i could barely give my name

Monty Burnz

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

First off, to those who claim they've never been IDchecked in europe, might I make the presumption that ye are clean cut, well dressed, don't ascosiate with known political activists and above all Have WHITE skin?

Well I don't think I look like a criminal, but I'm unlikely to win 'best dressed man' any time soon. I'm so white I'm practically blue. This doesn't help me blend in in Spain.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Just an observation, but I normally dress well and am conscious of my appearance in public, I was in kopenhagen some years ago , first few days were fine, but then I got talking to some people from kristania and decided to mooch out there for a look, needless to say I stood out like a sore thumb wearing a shirt and jacket, the rest of the trip was a markedly different experience
I was even stopped in the street on a trip to malmo,searched and quized about my intentions.

So you were too well dressed, and too white?

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

You are free to do as you are told, just try to step outside the lines.

I do as I like, but I respect the law and other people. I've never had a problem, and I've lived in several European countries for nearly a decade.

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I met a girl from frankfurt on another occasion in holland, one thing led to another an seeing as i was already on the continent we decided to head back to her place, I was the foreigner but because her mother was vietnamese she was the one singled out when we traveled through the airport, some of the cops were rather surprised that she spoke fluent german and i could barely give my name

Wow, you flew to a girl's place for a ride?

Tzar Chasm

Monty Burnz wrote: »

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

First off, to those who claim they've never been IDchecked in europe, might I make the presumption that ye are clean cut, well dressed, don't ascosiate with known political activists and above all Have WHITE skin?

Well I don't think I look like a criminal, but I'm unlikely to win 'best dressed man' any time soon. I'm so white I'm practically blue. This doesn't help me blend in in Spain.

Yes but the point i'm making is that you look european

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Just an observation, but I normally dress well and am conscious of my appearance in public, I was in kopenhagen some years ago , first few days were fine, but then I got talking to some people from kristania and decided to mooch out there for a look, needless to say I stood out like a sore thumb wearing a shirt and jacket, the rest of the trip was a markedly different experience
I was even stopped in the street on a trip to malmo,searched and quized about my intentions.

So you were too well dressed, and too white?

No I went somewhere different and was noticed, I didn't break any danish or swedish laws, but i asscosiated with people who were different

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

You are free to do as you are told, just try to step outside the lines.

I do as I like, but I respect the law and other people. I've never had a problem, and I've lived in several European countries for nearly a decade.

Really, sounds more like you do as your told

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

I met a girl from frankfurt on another occasion in holland, one thing led to another an seeing as i was already on the continent we decided to head back to her place, I was the foreigner but because her mother was vietnamese she was the one singled out when we traveled through the airport, some of the cops were rather surprised that she spoke fluent german and i could barely give my name

Wow, you flew to a girl's place for a ride?

I traveled to Continue riding her and frankfurt ain't far enough from amsterdam to get a sleeper carriage and

Monty Burnz

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Really, sounds more like you do as your told

I genuinely don't know what you mean by this though - I've never been 'told' to do anything by anyone but my parents. I don't harm anyone deliberately though, or drive recklessly, or sell drugs or anything like that - is that bad?