Unlicenced Drivers

Davidth88

Interesting/alarming article in the Indo today

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/concern-at-number-of-solo-learner-drivers-in-fatal-crashes-3134082.html

Basically one out of every 15 deaths on the road in the last 4 years involved an unlicenced driver. How this compares with licenced drivers isn't stated.

My own experience is that the Gards just don't care about people having no licence . In one week 2 of my friends were involved in minor shunts , which the Garda attended ( one because the driver got violent , and one because the other driver tried to drive off ).
In both cases the drivers had no licence , and in each case were allowed to drive off after providing details.

Why do people think it's acceptable/normal to drive with no licence in Ireland ?

We see this in this forum with numerous threads opened by people saying they have no licence and want to drive to/from work etc

Is it still the case that people here fail a test and still drive home ?

L1011

I would imagine in your friends situations that neither driver had their licence with them, rather than having no licence. Major difference.

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

In both cases the drivers had no licence , and in each case were allowed to drive off after providing details.

You have ten days to produce your D/Lic at a garda station.

Davidth88

MYOB wrote: »

I would imagine in your friends situations that neither driver had their licence with them, rather than having no licence. Major difference.

No .

in both cases they were driving with a learners permit. ( ie unlicened )

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

You have ten days to produce your D/Lic at a garda station.

If you have one !

A learners permit is not a licence

In my mind these people were committing 2 offences

1) Driving while unaccompanied ( ie no licence )
2) Neither were displaying L plates

In one case their address was in a place where they must have driven down a motorway to get to where they were ( of course that's an assumption , but I would lay money )

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

If you have one !

A learners permit is not a licence

In my mind these people were committing 2 offences

1) Driving while unaccompanied ( ie no licence )
2) Neither were displaying L plates

In one case their address was in a place where they must have driven down a motorway to get to where they were ( of course that's an assumption , but I would lay money )

How do you know they were learner permits?
How do you know they were not summoned for the above offences?
Motorway? come on is there no other way they could have got to their destination?

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

How do you know they were learner permits?
How do you know they were not summoned for the above offences?
Motorway? come on is there no other way they could have got to their destination?

In both cases the person admitted this to the Garda

It's possible that they were summoned , but in both cases they were allowed to drive off , ie continue to offend. Why did the Garda permit this ? Why wasn't the car impounded until someone who was qualified to drive it turned up ?

As for the motorway , if a person is driving to work ( as this person was ) from Kildare Town and had shunt at Newlands. In all realism do you think they may have gone on the Motorway from Kildare to Naas ? They were not displaying an L plate either.

Conor_M1990

David out of interest did you drive around on your Provisional Driving Licenses on your own when you where learning ?? Geniune question not trying to be a smart arse. I reckon alot of people will come here giving off about learners when they themselves done it.

In an Ideal world it would be easy to say that all learners should have someone with them but in this country it is just not practial as so many people live in rural areas and Public transport in most towns well doesn't exist unless your on a main road going to Dublin. I don't think you should be picking on learners remember we where all there once

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

In both cases the person admitted this to the Garda

It's possible that they were summoned , but in both cases they were allowed to drive off , ie continue to offend. Why did the Garda permit this ? Why wasn't the car impounded until someone who was qualified to drive it turned up ?

As for the motorway , if a person is driving to work ( as this person was ) from Kildare Town and had shunt at Newlands. In all realism do you think they may have gone on the Motorway from Kildare to Naas ? They were not displaying an L plate either.

They were qualified.
Not everyone drives on the motorway.

Davidth88

Conor_M1990 wrote: »

David out of interest did you drive around on your Provisional Driving Licenses on your own when you where learning ?? Geniune question not trying to be a smart arse. I reckon alot of people will come here giving off about learners when they themselves done it.

In an Ideal world it would be easy to say that all learners should have someone with them but in this country it is just not practial as so many people live in rural areas and Public transport in most towns well doesn't exist unless your on a main road going to Dublin. I don't think you should be picking on learners remember we where all there once

Hi

Totally reasonable question

I am English , I learnt to drive in London.

Never drove without licence . In England you are uninsured if you do so .

When I first moved to Ireland I was flabergasted to see that people thought that driving without a licence was acceptable.

What's the answer then , not bother having to have a licence system ? After all it's a bit of a pain.

I am sure everyone can drive perfectly without any training after all .

I was always taught that driving is a privilege not a right.

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

They were qualified.
Not everyone drives on the motorway.

errrr how were they qualified ?

They had no licence , and had not passed a test .

Conor_M1990

Davidth88 wrote: »

Hi

Totally reasonable question

I am English , I learnt to drive in London.

Never drove without licence . In England you are uninsured if you do so .

When I first moved to Ireland I was flabergasted to see that people thought that driving without a licence was acceptable.

What's the answer then , not bother having to have a licence system ? After all it's a bit of a pain.

I am sure everyone can drive perfectly without any training after all .

I was always taught that driving is a privilege not a right.

Its a cultural thing here tbh. For a long time the driving license system was a mess long waiting lists to do your test (up to a year) and at one stage during the 1980s they actually handed out licenses believe it or not to clear the back list

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

errrr how were they qualified ?

They had no licence , and had not passed a test .

They are still insured.

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

They are still insured.

Maybe ( IMO they shouldn't be , but that's another thing ) . But they were not qualified / licenced to drive .

Therefore unless they had a licenced driver with them ( who has had their licence for two years ) they should not have been permitted to drive away.

Davidth88

Conor_M1990 wrote: »

Its a cultural thing here tbh. For a long time the driving license system was a mess long waiting lists to do your test (up to a year) and at one stage during the 1980s they actually handed out licenses believe it or not to clear the back list

Yep , I understand that .

But is it acceptable ? Should the Gards be so laid back about it ?

In England when I learnt , there was also a very long waiting list ( about 8 months ) , so believe me you made sure you passed if you could .

I passed first time thank god , I still remember my instructor driving me home after the test ( they have to drive you home because you are uninsured on their car once you have passed strangely ) .

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

Maybe ( IMO they shouldn't be , but that's another thing ) . But they were not qualified / licenced to drive .

Therefore unless they had a licenced driver with them ( who has had their licence for two years ) they should not have been permitted to drive away.

It's not easy to have a qualified driver with you at all times.

I did my driving test in the UK, there are plenty of problems with the system there as well. Plenty of unlicensed drivers driving around as well.

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

It's not easy to have a qualified driver with you at all times.

I did my driving test in the UK, there are plenty of problems with the system there as well. Plenty of unlicensed drivers driving around as well.

I know , there are problems , but I am sure if the Police stopped you / had reason to talk to you in the UK and you had no licence / provisional you would not be allowed to drive off.

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

I know , there are problems , but I am sure if the Police stopped you / had reason to talk to you in the UK and you had no licence / provisional you would not be allowed to drive off.

You sure about that?

Bobsammy

hondasam wrote: »

It's not easy to have a qualified driver with you at all times.

I did my driving test in the UK, there are plenty of problems with the system there as well. Plenty of unlicensed drivers driving around as well.

But that doesn't explain how they were qualified? If they were in the car on their own and only have a learners permit then they shouldn't be driving it. I know it's hard to have a qualified driver but that's the law and the guards shouldn't really be condoning it by letting them drive away on their own - it just makes people think it's acceptable.

afatbollix

In the uk if the cops have any dout that some thing was not up with a licence or tax or insurance they ring the dvla and if anything comes back they will take the car there and then. They wouldn't let anyone drive off if the driver couldn't prove they have everything in order. None of the 10days thing like here.


Don't you watch any of the many cop shows that the uk produce!

hondasam

afatbollix wrote: »

In the uk if the cops have any dout that some thing was not up with a licence or tax or insurance they ring the dvla and if anything comes back they will take the car there and then. They wouldn't let anyone drive off if the driver couldn't prove they have everything in order. None of the 10days thing like here.

Have they not got seven days to produce in the UK?

Robxxx7

If the DVLA say that you do not have a valid full licence then your car is seized ... end of ..

All the computer systems are linked up now so that the police know if you have Tax, Licence , Insurance etc

djimi

Davidth88 wrote: »

Why do people think it's acceptable/normal to drive with no licence in Ireland ?

Is it still the case that people here fail a test and still drive home ?

In the case of people driving on learners permits its because the Gardai couldnt be bothered to enforce the laws regarding driving on a learners permit. If there were proper laws regarding learner drivers driving unaccompanied (ie they were fined heavily, lost their permit and had their cars impounded on the spot) and the Gardai actually enforced these laws then you would see a whole different attitude towards learning to drive in Ireland. As it stands the majority seem to think that all you have to do is pass a multiple choice exam and you have all the same rights as a fully licensed driver, and why wouldnt they; its not like much is done to dispel that myth...

they should not be allowed to drive off with no consequence if the guard knows they're on a permit

jhegarty

The fatalities involving unaccompanied drivers have accounted for one out of every 15 deaths on the roads since January 2009.

Official figures show there are almost 236,000 learner drivers, about 10pc of the total.

So 10% of the driver , 6.6 % of the deaths.

I think this is all the proof we need to ban everyone with a full license from the road.

AugustusMinimus

jhegarty wrote: »

So 10% of the driver , 6.6 % of the deaths.

I think this is all the proof we need to ban everyone with a full license from the road.

No. Thats 10% of drivers full stop.

What percentage of drivers are driving on a learners permit without an accompanying driver ?

hondasam

A crap driver could get lucky on the day of the test and pass, still a piece of paper makes them a good driver in the eyes of the law.
I know someone who passed even though they could not drive into the town passed first time and wrote of the car the next day.
I don't think a piece of paper makes you a good driver.

hondasam

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think a piece of paper makes you a good driver.

A full licence is only as good as the eejit who gives it out.:D

Colonel Sanders

I've banged this drum many times:

- learner drivers can't drive on motorway
- learner driver goes & passes driving test which doesn't involve driving on a motorway or in some cases even a dual carriage way
- ex learner driver (now a full licence holder) can now drive on motor way without any additional training

Explain that one. In my test I never went over 60km/h due to the route. Not quite sure how the test I sat therefore in any way proved I was a competent all round driver.....

hondasam

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think a piece of paper makes you a good driver.

No, but not having it means you're almost certainly not... yet

Mycroft H

On 2FM now.

Mycroft H

Jesus the one on the radio now is well stupid.

"Those things like checking your mirrors during the test you don't have to do in every day driving..."

djimi

hondasam wrote: »

A crap driver could get lucky on the day of the test and pass, still a piece of paper makes them a good driver in the eyes of the law.
I know someone who passed even though they could not drive into the town passed first time and wrote of the car the next day.
I don't think a piece of paper makes you a good driver.

I think its far more likely that an incapable driver will fail than pass, and considering how many people I know who are perfectly capable of driving and were failed two and three times over the past number of years on ridiculous things Id say the chances of a bad driver getting lucky and passing first time are pretty slim.

The current system we have isnt great; it doesnt take into account motorway driving, it doesnt have a probation period after you pass your test, and in reality you dont need to have a very high standard of driving to actually pass the test, but all moaning aside its all we have to work with at the moment. Having a full license doesnt make you a good driver, but not having one means that it must be assumed that you are either a) not a good driver, or b) not ready to be on the road unaccompanied, and as such the law should be taking this into account and the penalties for breaking learner driver laws should be harsh. Otherwise whats the point in having a licensing system in teh first place? May as well just give everyone a full license if they pass a multiple choice exam if a learners permit gives a driver the same rights and legal status as a full license.

dr.fuzzenstein

The current system is a joke.
Yes, the fact that there is a certain number of compulsory lessons is a good thing, but really this should go all the way.
This is how this should work:
Either you have passed a test and you are qualified to drive or you haven't and you are not.
This whole idea of giving out permits that allow you to drive, but not really, only confuses the issue, fitting in nicely with the "ah sure, t'will be grand" attitude that has plagued this country until recently.
It is simply trying to find a compromise between an Irish system (be grand, ah t'will work out somehow, no worries) and a European system (You either have a licence or you don't, it's that simple).
It clearly gets abused and the standard of driving in this country seems to indicate that getting lessons from your aunt Mary or your cat is not working.
So, get rid of the learner's permit, have proper driving schools and include motorway and night driving into the curriculum.

Davidth88

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

So, get rid of the learner's permit, have proper driving schools and include motorway and night driving into the curriculum.

Not exactly practical or possible

After all how would you include this if you lived in Kerry/Donegal/Mayo or suchlike

The law is pretty clear right now , you should not drive unless you have a fully licenced person next to you , and that person should have a full licence for at least 2 years.

And you have to display L plates.

You see very few cars with L plates nowadays , yet 10% of drivers are on a learners permit.... draw your own conclusions.

The law is clear , it's just not enforced at all , because of this it's not respected.

I agree with the people who say that a piece of paper doesn't make you a good driver.

I have had my licence now for for 30 years , I was doing 30-40k miles a year at one point , but I would consider myself an average driver , I am still learning .

kirving

I don't understand how having a fully licensed driver in the car equates to such a percieved change in the driving ability of learner permit holders. Alone, they are deemed to be "unlicensed", a danger to other road users, etc, etc, and that they should be locked up.

Stick another person in the car, and it's A-OK in lots of peoples minds. That transformation doesn't happen, so we can do one of two things.

Only allow those who haven't passed their test on the road with an instructor in a dual control car, or recognise that the person in the left seat doesn't herald the immediate transformation from an irresponsible maniac to a safe driver, and allow learners to drive alone.

Learner should be either let drive alone, or not. Another person in the car makes little difference.

munchkin_utd

Davidth88 wrote: »

Not exactly practical or possible

After all how would you include this if you lived in Kerry/Donegal/Mayo or suchlike

they would have to make the effort and go somewhere that has a motorway, maybe organising those lessons with a school local to the motorway!

I love how people can find 80odd euro per tank of petrol, 100s for motor tax, 1000s for insurance and 10k+ for a car but somehow driving a few mile down the road or paying for a lesson is an insurmountable cost and inconvience.

djimi

Kevin Irving wrote: »

I don't understand how having a fully licensed driver in the car equates to such a percieved change in the driving ability of learner permit holders. Alone, they are deemed to be "unlicensed", a danger to other road users, etc, etc, and that they should be locked up.

Stick another person in the car, and it's A-OK in lots of peoples minds. That transformation doesn't happen, so we can do one of two things.

Only allow those who haven't passed their test on the road with an instructor in a dual control car, or recognise that the person in the left seat doesn't herald the immediate transformation from an irresponsible maniac to a safe driver, and allow learners to drive alone.

Learner should be either let drive alone, or not. Another person in the car makes little difference.

Having a licensed driver (my father) with my helped a lot when I was learning, especially early on. Even just having them there to watch for situations which you are not experienced enough to see or to help when you get into trouble makes a big difference.

Of course, its not a perfect system by any means, and it relies on the licensed driver actually being responsible and up to the task, but its better than nothing, and certainly better than allowing someone who has just passed a multiple choice exam to jump behind the wheel of a car on their own.

kirving

djimi wrote: »

I think its far more likely that an incapable driver will fail than pass, and considering how many people I know who are perfectly capable of driving and were failed two and three times over the past number of years on ridiculous things Id say the chances of a bad driver getting lucky and passing first time are pretty slim.

Having a full license doesnt make you a good driver, but not having one means that it must be assumed that you are either a) not a good driver, or b) not ready to be on the road unaccompanied, and as such the law should be taking this into account and the penalties for breaking learner driver laws should be harsh.

Why must it be assumed that a driver on their own isn't safe? Another person in the car isn't qualified to make that assesment, nor do they make much of a difference.

I agree with you about the luck element in passing the test, it certainly exists. Failing people on ridiculous things makes a mockery of the test, and people lose faith in it very quickly.

I don't think anyone should be let drive on their own after a stupid multiple choice exam. I think there should be a far more extensive test in all weather conditions and road types.

Until then though, I think that that high horse brigade(I'm as tired of that phrase as everyone eles) should realise that lone drivers aren't really any more dangerous than an accompanied learner.

Davidth88

munchkin_utd wrote: »

they would have to make the effort and go somewhere that has a motorway, maybe organising those lessons with a school local to the motorway!

I love how people can find 80odd euro per tank of petrol, 100s for motor tax, 1000s for insurance and 10k+ for a car but somehow driving a few mile down the road or paying for a lesson is an insurmountable cost and inconvience.

errr , a few miles ?

If you live in Waterville in Kerry your nearest motorway is over 130 km away

Maybe a motorway simulator or suchlike.

Really roadcraft/basic driving could be included into secondary school I would have thought , maybe in the Transition Year where they are fluteing around for a year.


As for the licenced driver next you , they are technically in charge of the car I think . So if they are drunk for example they can get banned.

ABajaninCork

hondasam wrote: »

It's not easy to have a qualified driver with you at all times.

I did my driving test in the UK, there are plenty of problems with the system there as well. Plenty of unlicensed drivers driving around as well.

Where did you find them??

I'm from London and took my test there. NOBODY I know ever drove unaccompanied! We wouldn't dare, and frankly, it's stupid and risky to do so. Everybody there knows good and well the Old Bill will take the car from them where they stand.

The system here is a joke as everyone knows. There's a girl I know who's failed her test several times. I've seen her drive, and TBH I would be terrified to get in the car with her. She drives around alone. When I asked if she wasn't worried about being stopped by the Gards, I was told 'I don't worry about it. I won't be done as my brother's a Gard!' :eek:

I don't buy the excuse of the poor public transport either. How did people cope living in the country before they got their permits? What makes people so special, they cannot obey the law?? If you know so well the public transport is crap, then you make damned sure you pass your test ASAP. Simple!!!

I really despair...

djimi

Kevin Irving wrote: »

Until then though, I think that that high horse brigade(I'm as tired of that phrase as everyone eles) should realise that lone drivers aren't really any more dangerous than an accompanied learner.

I would rephrase that to say that lone learner drivers arent any less dangerous than accompanied drivers. Which I dont necessarily agree with as the experience of an experienced driver could make a big difference to a learner. Lets not forget that in a lot of cases a driving instructor has no real control either; especially not if the learner is in their own car.

As I said its not a perfect system, but the only other solution is to get learners off the road altogher and into driving academys until they are at a suitable level that they can be let on the road. This solution would require a huge change in the system, and even assuming we were to consider such a change it would take time. In the meantime the current system is better than nothing, and at least ensures that learners are driving with some level of supervision, which is better than the alternative of letting them loose unsupervised.

munchkin_utd

Davidth88 wrote: »

errr , a few miles ?

If you live in Waterville in Kerry your nearest motorway is over 130 km away

Maybe a motorway simulator or suchlike.

fine.

then ban anyone who does the test without the motorway practical lessons off the motorway.
theres already a long list of restrictions like Automatic Use only etc, you could just add a "no motorway use" to the licence.
http://www.thrifty.ie/aboutdriverlicenses.php

Seeing as they are so geographically challenged in making the trip to do the lessons on a motorway they obviously wont ever need to use one anyhow.

dr.fuzzenstein

Davidth88 wrote: »

Not exactly practical or possible

.

I just hate the "Ireland is Different" excuse.
It works in all of Europe, not everywhere there is an urban center either.
When I did my lessons/test it was with a properly licenced driving school, first we had to pass a theory test, there was first aid, basic things about cars, such as checking the oil, etc..., a certain minimum of driving lessons, motorway driving, night driving, it was an all-round education.
Once you are qualified you are only on probation, if you fcuk up you could have to resit your test all over again.
But the most important thing to me was that everything was clear cut.
Situation 1: You have passed your test, you have your licence and you are OK to drive.
Situation 2: You didn't pass your test, you don't have a licence and you are not OK to drive.
I don't see what's impractical or impossible about it.
Or are you saying that it is beyond the Irish to accomplish something that the entire rest of the world does with ease?

djimi

ABajaninCork wrote: »

Everybody there knows good and well the Old Bill will take the car from them where they stand.

Which is how is should be over here also. Car impounded on the spot and a €1000 fine to get it back; its literally the only way we will sort out the problem of learner drivers in this country.

ABajaninCork wrote: »

I don't buy the excuse of the poor public transport either. How did people cope living in the country before they got their permits? What makes people so special, they cannot obey the law?? If you know so well the public transport is crap, then you make damned sure you pass your test ASAP. Simple!!!

I really hate this excuse. Who cares if its an inconvenience not to have a car? Should just be motivation to get your license quicker! People have gotten away with this for far too long.

Davidth88

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I just hate the "Ireland is Different" excuse.
It works in all of Europe, not everywhere there is an urban center either.
When I did my lessons/test it was with a properly licenced driving school, first we had to pass a theory test, there was first aid, basic things about cars, such as checking the oil, etc..., a certain minimum of driving lessons, motorway driving, night driving, it was an all-round education.
Once you are qualified you are only on probation, if you fcuk up you could have to resit your test all over again.
But the most important thing to me was that everything was clear cut.
Situation 1: You have passed your test, you have your licence and you are OK to drive.
Situation 2: You didn't pass your test, you don't have a licence and you are not OK to drive.
I don't see what's impractical or impossible about it.
Or are you saying that it is beyond the Irish to accomplish something that the entire rest of the world does with ease?

No actually I was saying that it's not really practical or possible for everyone in Ireland to have driving lessons on a motorway.
It would be nice . I think the restriction idea is quite a good one.

As far as I know motorway driving isn't on the UK test, although it's 30 odd years since I did mine.

Indeed L plates ( except HGV ) are not allowed on motorway .

djimi

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

I just hate the "Ireland is Different" excuse.
It works in all of Europe, not everywhere there is an urban center either.
When I did my lessons/test it was with a properly licenced driving school, first we had to pass a theory test, there was first aid, basic things about cars, such as checking the oil, etc..., a certain minimum of driving lessons, motorway driving, night driving, it was an all-round education.
Once you are qualified you are only on probation, if you fcuk up you could have to resit your test all over again.
But the most important thing to me was that everything was clear cut.
Situation 1: You have passed your test, you have your licence and you are OK to drive.
Situation 2: You didn't pass your test, you don't have a licence and you are not OK to drive.
I don't see what's impractical or impossible about it.
Or are you saying that it is beyond the Irish to accomplish something that the entire rest of the world does with ease?

A system like that would be far too inconvenient for Ireland though. Imagine having to get a lift to work because you havent passed your driving test :eek:

Driving in Ireland is a god given right dont you know; once you turn 17 youre entitled to drive a car, and theres not a law or Garda in the land that can do anything about it.

Robxxx7

Many people have hit the nail on the head here ....

We have slowly progressed from a system where you can just drive about without a licence without any fear of being stopped and prosecuted .. to a system where people have to go through a compulsory set of EDT lessons/sessions where people without a licence can still drive about without fear of being stopped and prosecuted ....

Time the Gardai did their job and enforce the law ..... it may prevent deaths on the road not only to unlicensed drivers but to others as well ...

Also time for people to cop on and take responsibility ... no its not ok to drive on your own .... no excuses !!

I never drove on my own, took lessons and passed my test ... short term pain for long term gain ....

TheDoc

Started my driving in September. Went for straight for a lesson pack from an insurance company with no experience. 15 lessons with an instructor who then grade you and you get various discounts based on your performance.

I received a top mark and got a 40% discount. However I was being limited with having to drive with my father who was rarely available for me to go practice. An adult and frank conversation with my parents and it was agreed I would be allowed drive on my own.

A short conversation with the insurer who reviewed the training logs from the instructor and I was granted insurance for being by myself in the car , on a provisional license. To re-iterate, I'm insured, whilst being on my own. Pretty unheard of going by the other companies I'd contacted.

I don't drive with my L plates up to avoid attention to myself, and I've been pulled in three times through checkpoints for tax etc. and not asked for my license.

I'm 24 years old and consider myself a cautious and safe driver. I've gone from no experience through a rigorous instruction/lesson scheme that equipped me with a really good understanding of safety and identifying danger. The mechanics of it all has been getting better as I've practiced.

The point I'm making is that taking it seriously, going for a proper set of instructions and lessons, will set you up well. I've noticed nothing but brash and dangerous driving on the roads. My most recent example was on the M1 heading North where there was merging lanes and a Jeep went flying by on the overtaking lane and flying by me crashed through cones into the lane where the construction workers were doing their work, and swing back out in front of me throwing cones in my direction.

The new steps taken to provide more education and more lessons for new drivers, while a short term pain is a long term gain. And while technically I am breaking the law driving on my own, as my insurance company is covering me I'm willing to take the risk. And the advice to leave the plates down came from friends of mine within the Guards, who gave me a frank talking and said if I'm responsible and mature about driving I'll never have any trouble, but if I'm a child and speeding and messing, well then I deserve what I get.

Indricotherium

TheDoc wrote: »

Started my driving in September. Went for straight for a lesson pack from an insurance company with no experience. 15 lessons with an instructor who then grade you and you get various discounts based on your performance.

I received a top mark and got a 40% discount. However I was being limited with having to drive with my father who was rarely available for me to go practice. An adult and frank conversation with my parents and it was agreed I would be allowed drive on my own.

A short conversation with the insurer who reviewed the training logs from the instructor and I was granted insurance for being by myself in the car , on a provisional license. To re-iterate, I'm insured, whilst being on my own. Pretty unheard of going by the other companies I'd contacted.

I don't drive with my L plates up to avoid attention to myself, and I've been pulled in three times through checkpoints for tax etc. and not asked for my license.

I'm 24 years old and consider myself a cautious and safe driver. I've gone from no experience through a rigorous instruction/lesson scheme that equipped me with a really good understanding of safety and identifying danger. The mechanics of it all has been getting better as I've practiced.

The point I'm making is that taking it seriously, going for a proper set of instructions and lessons, will set you up well. I've noticed nothing but brash and dangerous driving on the roads. My most recent example was on the M1 heading North where there was merging lanes and a Jeep went flying by on the overtaking lane and flying by me crashed through cones into the lane where the construction workers were doing their work, and swing back out in front of me throwing cones in my direction.

The new steps taken to provide more education and more lessons for new drivers, while a short term pain is a long term gain. And while technically I am breaking the law driving on my own, as my insurance company is covering me I'm willing to take the risk. And the advice to leave the plates down came from friends of mine within the Guards, who gave me a frank talking and said if I'm responsible and mature about driving I'll never have any trouble, but if I'm a child and speeding and messing, well then I deserve what I get.

If you're the cheese at driving as you say, why didn't you just go do your driving test instead sitting down and asking your parents at 24 years of age.

TheDoc

TheDoc wrote: »

I'm 24 years old and consider myself a cautious and safe driver.

So does everyone else.
If you're that great, go do the test and stop driving on motorways and unaccompanied on a permit