Unlicenced Drivers

Davidth88

Interesting/alarming article in the Indo today

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/concern-at-number-of-solo-learner-drivers-in-fatal-crashes-3134082.html

Basically one out of every 15 deaths on the road in the last 4 years involved an unlicenced driver. How this compares with licenced drivers isn't stated.

My own experience is that the Gards just don't care about people having no licence . In one week 2 of my friends were involved in minor shunts , which the Garda attended ( one because the driver got violent , and one because the other driver tried to drive off ).
In both cases the drivers had no licence , and in each case were allowed to drive off after providing details.

Why do people think it's acceptable/normal to drive with no licence in Ireland ?

We see this in this forum with numerous threads opened by people saying they have no licence and want to drive to/from work etc

Is it still the case that people here fail a test and still drive home ?

L1011

I would imagine in your friends situations that neither driver had their licence with them, rather than having no licence. Major difference.

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

In both cases the drivers had no licence , and in each case were allowed to drive off after providing details.

You have ten days to produce your D/Lic at a garda station.

Davidth88

MYOB wrote: »

I would imagine in your friends situations that neither driver had their licence with them, rather than having no licence. Major difference.

No .

in both cases they were driving with a learners permit. ( ie unlicened )

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

You have ten days to produce your D/Lic at a garda station.

If you have one !

A learners permit is not a licence

In my mind these people were committing 2 offences

1) Driving while unaccompanied ( ie no licence )
2) Neither were displaying L plates

In one case their address was in a place where they must have driven down a motorway to get to where they were ( of course that's an assumption , but I would lay money )

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

If you have one !

A learners permit is not a licence

In my mind these people were committing 2 offences

1) Driving while unaccompanied ( ie no licence )
2) Neither were displaying L plates

In one case their address was in a place where they must have driven down a motorway to get to where they were ( of course that's an assumption , but I would lay money )

How do you know they were learner permits?
How do you know they were not summoned for the above offences?
Motorway? come on is there no other way they could have got to their destination?

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

How do you know they were learner permits?
How do you know they were not summoned for the above offences?
Motorway? come on is there no other way they could have got to their destination?

In both cases the person admitted this to the Garda

It's possible that they were summoned , but in both cases they were allowed to drive off , ie continue to offend. Why did the Garda permit this ? Why wasn't the car impounded until someone who was qualified to drive it turned up ?

As for the motorway , if a person is driving to work ( as this person was ) from Kildare Town and had shunt at Newlands. In all realism do you think they may have gone on the Motorway from Kildare to Naas ? They were not displaying an L plate either.

Conor_M1990

David out of interest did you drive around on your Provisional Driving Licenses on your own when you where learning ?? Geniune question not trying to be a smart arse. I reckon alot of people will come here giving off about learners when they themselves done it.

In an Ideal world it would be easy to say that all learners should have someone with them but in this country it is just not practial as so many people live in rural areas and Public transport in most towns well doesn't exist unless your on a main road going to Dublin. I don't think you should be picking on learners remember we where all there once

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

In both cases the person admitted this to the Garda

It's possible that they were summoned , but in both cases they were allowed to drive off , ie continue to offend. Why did the Garda permit this ? Why wasn't the car impounded until someone who was qualified to drive it turned up ?

As for the motorway , if a person is driving to work ( as this person was ) from Kildare Town and had shunt at Newlands. In all realism do you think they may have gone on the Motorway from Kildare to Naas ? They were not displaying an L plate either.

They were qualified.
Not everyone drives on the motorway.

Davidth88

Conor_M1990 wrote: »

David out of interest did you drive around on your Provisional Driving Licenses on your own when you where learning ?? Geniune question not trying to be a smart arse. I reckon alot of people will come here giving off about learners when they themselves done it.

In an Ideal world it would be easy to say that all learners should have someone with them but in this country it is just not practial as so many people live in rural areas and Public transport in most towns well doesn't exist unless your on a main road going to Dublin. I don't think you should be picking on learners remember we where all there once

Hi

Totally reasonable question

I am English , I learnt to drive in London.

Never drove without licence . In England you are uninsured if you do so .

When I first moved to Ireland I was flabergasted to see that people thought that driving without a licence was acceptable.

What's the answer then , not bother having to have a licence system ? After all it's a bit of a pain.

I am sure everyone can drive perfectly without any training after all .

I was always taught that driving is a privilege not a right.

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

They were qualified.
Not everyone drives on the motorway.

errrr how were they qualified ?

They had no licence , and had not passed a test .

Conor_M1990

Davidth88 wrote: »

Hi

Totally reasonable question

I am English , I learnt to drive in London.

Never drove without licence . In England you are uninsured if you do so .

When I first moved to Ireland I was flabergasted to see that people thought that driving without a licence was acceptable.

What's the answer then , not bother having to have a licence system ? After all it's a bit of a pain.

I am sure everyone can drive perfectly without any training after all .

I was always taught that driving is a privilege not a right.

Its a cultural thing here tbh. For a long time the driving license system was a mess long waiting lists to do your test (up to a year) and at one stage during the 1980s they actually handed out licenses believe it or not to clear the back list

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

errrr how were they qualified ?

They had no licence , and had not passed a test .

They are still insured.

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

They are still insured.

Maybe ( IMO they shouldn't be , but that's another thing ) . But they were not qualified / licenced to drive .

Therefore unless they had a licenced driver with them ( who has had their licence for two years ) they should not have been permitted to drive away.

Davidth88

Conor_M1990 wrote: »

Its a cultural thing here tbh. For a long time the driving license system was a mess long waiting lists to do your test (up to a year) and at one stage during the 1980s they actually handed out licenses believe it or not to clear the back list

Yep , I understand that .

But is it acceptable ? Should the Gards be so laid back about it ?

In England when I learnt , there was also a very long waiting list ( about 8 months ) , so believe me you made sure you passed if you could .

I passed first time thank god , I still remember my instructor driving me home after the test ( they have to drive you home because you are uninsured on their car once you have passed strangely ) .

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

Maybe ( IMO they shouldn't be , but that's another thing ) . But they were not qualified / licenced to drive .

Therefore unless they had a licenced driver with them ( who has had their licence for two years ) they should not have been permitted to drive away.

It's not easy to have a qualified driver with you at all times.

I did my driving test in the UK, there are plenty of problems with the system there as well. Plenty of unlicensed drivers driving around as well.

Davidth88

hondasam wrote: »

It's not easy to have a qualified driver with you at all times.

I did my driving test in the UK, there are plenty of problems with the system there as well. Plenty of unlicensed drivers driving around as well.

I know , there are problems , but I am sure if the Police stopped you / had reason to talk to you in the UK and you had no licence / provisional you would not be allowed to drive off.

hondasam

Davidth88 wrote: »

I know , there are problems , but I am sure if the Police stopped you / had reason to talk to you in the UK and you had no licence / provisional you would not be allowed to drive off.

You sure about that?

Bobsammy

hondasam wrote: »

It's not easy to have a qualified driver with you at all times.

I did my driving test in the UK, there are plenty of problems with the system there as well. Plenty of unlicensed drivers driving around as well.

But that doesn't explain how they were qualified? If they were in the car on their own and only have a learners permit then they shouldn't be driving it. I know it's hard to have a qualified driver but that's the law and the guards shouldn't really be condoning it by letting them drive away on their own - it just makes people think it's acceptable.

afatbollix

In the uk if the cops have any dout that some thing was not up with a licence or tax or insurance they ring the dvla and if anything comes back they will take the car there and then. They wouldn't let anyone drive off if the driver couldn't prove they have everything in order. None of the 10days thing like here.


Don't you watch any of the many cop shows that the uk produce!

hondasam

afatbollix wrote: »

In the uk if the cops have any dout that some thing was not up with a licence or tax or insurance they ring the dvla and if anything comes back they will take the car there and then. They wouldn't let anyone drive off if the driver couldn't prove they have everything in order. None of the 10days thing like here.

Have they not got seven days to produce in the UK?

Robxxx7

If the DVLA say that you do not have a valid full licence then your car is seized ... end of ..

All the computer systems are linked up now so that the police know if you have Tax, Licence , Insurance etc

djimi

Davidth88 wrote: »

Why do people think it's acceptable/normal to drive with no licence in Ireland ?

Is it still the case that people here fail a test and still drive home ?

In the case of people driving on learners permits its because the Gardai couldnt be bothered to enforce the laws regarding driving on a learners permit. If there were proper laws regarding learner drivers driving unaccompanied (ie they were fined heavily, lost their permit and had their cars impounded on the spot) and the Gardai actually enforced these laws then you would see a whole different attitude towards learning to drive in Ireland. As it stands the majority seem to think that all you have to do is pass a multiple choice exam and you have all the same rights as a fully licensed driver, and why wouldnt they; its not like much is done to dispel that myth...

they should not be allowed to drive off with no consequence if the guard knows they're on a permit

jhegarty

The fatalities involving unaccompanied drivers have accounted for one out of every 15 deaths on the roads since January 2009.

Official figures show there are almost 236,000 learner drivers, about 10pc of the total.

So 10% of the driver , 6.6 % of the deaths.

I think this is all the proof we need to ban everyone with a full license from the road.

AugustusMinimus

jhegarty wrote: »

So 10% of the driver , 6.6 % of the deaths.

I think this is all the proof we need to ban everyone with a full license from the road.

No. Thats 10% of drivers full stop.

What percentage of drivers are driving on a learners permit without an accompanying driver ?

hondasam

A crap driver could get lucky on the day of the test and pass, still a piece of paper makes them a good driver in the eyes of the law.
I know someone who passed even though they could not drive into the town passed first time and wrote of the car the next day.
I don't think a piece of paper makes you a good driver.

hondasam

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think a piece of paper makes you a good driver.

A full licence is only as good as the eejit who gives it out.:D

Colonel Sanders

I've banged this drum many times:

- learner drivers can't drive on motorway
- learner driver goes & passes driving test which doesn't involve driving on a motorway or in some cases even a dual carriage way
- ex learner driver (now a full licence holder) can now drive on motor way without any additional training

Explain that one. In my test I never went over 60km/h due to the route. Not quite sure how the test I sat therefore in any way proved I was a competent all round driver.....

hondasam

hondasam wrote: »

I don't think a piece of paper makes you a good driver.

No, but not having it means you're almost certainly not... yet

Mycroft H

On 2FM now.