Quick question about maths paper 2..

Pepperr

My teacher told us that the whole 95% confidence interval/Margin of error topic was taken out of our course, does anyone know for sure if it is gone?

Stalin and rugby

Unless it was taken out over the weekend it's still there mate.

Pepperr

Eugh... Thanks for the reply

finality

95% confidence interval is not on the course. Margin of error IS.

BL1993

finality wrote: »

95% confidence interval is not on the course. Margin of error IS.

Wait, so Hypothesis testing isn't on it?!?!

cocopopsxx

Wait, I thought only 5% confidence interval was taken off and not 95%. I'm confused now.....

ChemHickey

cocopopsxx wrote: »

Wait, I thought only 5% confidence interval was taken off and not 95%. I'm confused now.....

5% is 95% as far as I know....

The confidence interval refers to a confidence level relating to the central limit theorem as far as I know...

leaveiton

Aw no, don't tell me hypothesis testing is gone, I liked that

ChemHickey

leaveiton wrote: »

Aw no, don't tell me hypothesis testing is gone, I liked that

Its still on afaik

DepoProvera

finality wrote: »

95% confidence interval is not on the course. Margin of error IS.

It is most certainly on the course.. It's the p^ - E < p< p^ + E bit.

And so is hypothesis testing and central limit theorem unless something has changed very recently and/or I'm a dope.

ChemHickey

DepoProvera wrote: »

It is most certainly on the course.. It's the p^ - E < p< p^ + E bit.

And so is hypothesis testing and central limit theorem unless something has changed very recently and/or I'm a dope.

No, there is a certain 95% confidence level which is amalgamated to the central limit theorem which is supposedly deffered material but my teacher said they could ask it through the empirical.

DepoProvera

I'm looking at my book right now and it's saying what I said? Unless there is another 95% confidence interval relating to central limit theorem? Edit: rereading your post I think this is why you're saying. Oops sorry!

And my teacher said central limit is on the course(apparently due to the fact that the formula is in the maths tables.. ?)but there's no way in hell it coming up so no use dwelling upon it I guess :P

finality

If you have the edco exam papers look at page 179 - (a)-(c) material has been deferred for 3 years. It relates to 95% confidence interval and hypothesis testing. Both are not on our course.

leaveiton

finality wrote: »

If you have the edco exam papers look at page 179 - (a)-(c) material has been deferred for 3 years. It relates to 95% confidence interval and hypothesis testing. Both are not on our course.

But questions like 2 (b) on page 109 of those papers are still on, right?

DepoProvera

http://www.projectmaths.com/index.php/2012/05/project-maths-statistics-some-clarifications/

Edit: hmmmpf this doesn't say whether or not it's for pilot schools or not.

finality

leaveiton wrote: »

But questions like 2 (b) on page 109 of those papers are still on, right?

Yeah You just don't have to construct a 95% confidence interval or explain it... or conduct a hypothesis test.

TheBody

finality wrote: »

If you have the edco exam papers look at page 179 - (a)-(c) material has been deferred for 3 years. It relates to 95% confidence interval and hypothesis testing. Both are not on our course.

I noticed that too so I queried this with the NCCA (the people who write the syllabus). They said that it is on the syllabus.

finality

http://www.examinations.ie/schools/S_77_11_Arrangements_for_Phase1_of_Project_Maths_2012.pdf

In section 4 here it says part c of q9 on the 2010 SEC paper is not relevant - that was a hypothesis test. But it's looking like you do need to be able to explain the 95% confidence interval.

BL1993

finality wrote: »

http://www.examinations.ie/schools/S_77_11_Arrangements_for_Phase1_of_Project_Maths_2012.pdf

In section 4 here it says part c of q9 on the 2010 SEC paper is not relevant - that was a hypothesis test. But it's looking like you do need to be able to explain the 95% confidence interval.

It's not on our course. That is a confidence interval for a mean. We just do normal confidence intervals.

TheBody

I managed to find the e-mail I got from the NCCA.

The syllabus requires students following the Higher Level Leaving Cert. course to understand the concept of hypothesis test and the hypothesis test that is required is based on the margin of error. The approximate margin of error assumes a 95% confidence level.
A formal hypothesis test is not required for those sitting Leaving Cert HL in 2012. The use of a formal hypothesis test is part of the deferred material . What is deferred in this section relates to more sophisticated treatment of hypothesis testing, confidence intervals, two-tailed z-tests (at HL).

leaveiton

finality wrote: »

Yeah You just don't have to construct a 95% confidence interval or explain it... or conduct a hypothesis test.

Ah that's grand so Didn't even know that other stuff existed, got a bit scared when I thought those lovely questions weren't on :P

finality

My understanding of it is that the "hypothesis test" they can ask us to do is basically

find the margin of error
find the range of the result e.g. 20%< P< 26%

then they say it was claimed that the percentage was 25%, can this claim be rejected?

no because it's between 20 and 26%

that's pretty much the extent of it, right? We don't need to know about null hypothesis etc?

Dapics

finality wrote: »

My understanding of it is that the "hypothesis test" they can ask us to do is basically

find the margin of error
find the range of the result e.g. 20%< P< 26%

then they say it was claimed that the percentage was 25%, can this claim be rejected?

no because it's between 20 and 26%

that's pretty much the extent of it, right? We don't need to know about null hypothesis etc?

Correctomundo!

Very nice question to get

Gal_in_need

Hey sorry this is a bit off topic but what is the recommended time per questions on paper 2 im clueless regarding that stuff!

TheBody

Gal_in_need wrote: »

Hey sorry this is a bit off topic but what is the recommended time per questions on paper 2 im clueless regarding that stuff!

That's a difficult question to answer. The questions vary in length and difficulity. I think time management is something you will need to be mindful of in the exam.

carts

I got an e-mail lastnight from 3 different people.. all saying that the confidence intervals and hypothesis testing is off 2012 course.. came from dublin:cool:

cocopopsxx

Gal_in_need wrote: »

Hey sorry this is a bit off topic but what is the recommended time per questions on paper 2 im clueless regarding that stuff!

12.5 minutes for each of the first six 25 markers and the remaining 75 mins divided between the remaining two long questions (which will be 37.5 mins per long question)... This is what I've been told anyway.

carts

13 minutes per question in section 1.. 25 for the questions in section 2.. but sure feck the timing :P

Gal_in_need

Thank you and good luck!

Enda93

Hey everyone, just a piece of random information, the way project maths tells us to find a 95% confidence interval is technically inaccurate, they define the margin of error as 1/root(n), it's actually .98/root(n)
project maths is a really stupid system, they're trying to make maths more true to real life situations and yet they're giving us the wrong formulas :P

Scarlett Scout

carts wrote: »

I got an e-mail lastnight from 3 different people.. all saying that the confidence intervals and hypothesis testing is off 2012 course.. came from dublin:cool:

Would you mind telling us who sent it? SEC? NCCA? Did they send it to you because your a teacher?

ehshup

Enda93 wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a piece of random information, the way project maths tells us to find a 95% confidence interval is technically inaccurate, they define the margin of error as 1/root(n), it's actually .98/root(n)
project maths is a really stupid system, they're trying to make maths more true to real life situations and yet they're giving us the wrong formulas :P

not to mention the proof for theorem 12 which we give isn't actually a real proof for real numbers, it only proves it for rational numbers

MathsManiac

Enda93 wrote: »

Hey everyone, just a piece of random information, the way project maths tells us to find a 95% confidence interval is technically inaccurate, they define the margin of error as 1/root(n), it's actually .98/root(n)
project maths is a really stupid system, they're trying to make maths more true to real life situations and yet they're giving us the wrong formulas :P

And .98 is wrong too, 'cos it should be 0.97998. And that's wrong too, 'cos it should be 0.979981992, etc., etc. What's your point?

The reality is that statistics in real life is a messier subject than pure maths, and 0.98 is as near as makes no difference to 1.