Are 'luxury ' cars worth the money

Greendiamond

Hi,

Currently driving a Toyota avensis before that had another Toyota. Current car is 2004 so want to change the car. I was originally looking at a 2010/2011 avensis as have always found toyotas reliable however while it's a grand car it's not very exciting
So had a look at a few different cars, the Audi A4, 5 series BMW etc. a bit more expensive but looked great, all bells and whistles with leather interiors etc. My head was turned;)

Of course I will look at mileage, road tax class etc but am just wondering with Audis, Merc, BMW etc are you getting something much better or are you paying for the luxury ' badge'

Are the worth the money ?

ninty9er

The BMW 5 series is equivalent of the MB E-Class, Audi A6 or Lexus GS.

The A4, 3 Series and C-Class are all smaller than your current car.

Bigus

Get an Avensis with leather !

Years ago luxury cars had extras that ordinary cars hadn't
also luxury cars were safer,( luxury cars had abs airbags, power steering air con etc first) neither is true now,

if anything they are less reliable because of some unwanted technology ie electronic hanbrakes, mmi systems software controlled heating systems and complicated sh1te you don't want unles your of the playstation generation.

Greendiamond

ninty9er wrote: »

The BMW 5 series is equivalent of the MB E-Class, Audi A6 or Lexus GS.

The A4, 3 Series and C-Class are all smaller than your current car.

Thanks for this, very helpful. do you think the 5 series BMW are good/ worth the money? I know that's a bit of a how long is a piece of string question but keen to hear your opinion. Thanks

ofcork

I would agree 100% with that also remember because they cost more new they are generally alot more expensive to fix.I have heard of a number of these premium brands giving their owners hassle A6s 5 series s class etc and i drive a 04 avensis with 140k miles and never gave trouble.The new avensis looks well esp the 2012 refresh although they do have an electronic handbrake which was giving trouble.

ShadowHearth

Luxury brands will be always luxury.

Sitting inside something like 5 series same age will be way different from avensis vectors etc.

All depends on your budget op and how high on tax you can go. You might aswell buy jaguar xk for 3k with all the goodies and pay 1.7k eu tax. It will still be cheaper Even after few years, them buying a 2011 avensis.

Greendiamond

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Luxury brands will be always luxury.

Sitting inside something like 5 series same age will be way different from avensis vectors etc.

All depends on your budget op and how high on tax you can go. You might aswell buy jaguar xk for 3k with all the goodies and pay 1.7k eu tax. It will still be cheaper Even after few years, them buying a 2011 avensis.

Budget is max 35k and would like tax band B at worst.

ongarite

Absolutely worth it (for me)
I went from a Megane to a 5 series.

I do small mileage and "luxury" petrols are terrific value 2nd hand.

Greendiamond

We do about 12,000 miles per year. In terms of fuel efficiency would we be better with a 2/2.2 diesel or a 1.8/2 petrol ?

-Corkie-

Greendiamond wrote: »

We do about 12,000 miles per year. In terms of fuel efficiency would we be better with a 2/2.2 diesel or a 1.8/2 petrol ?

Petrol definitley...

Bigus

Greendiamond wrote: »

Budget is max 35k and would like tax band B at worst.

Stretch your budget to ,or wait for a current model 520 d to fall into your budget so QED

-Corkie-

Bigus wrote: »

Stretch your budget to ,or wait for a current model 520 d to fall into your budget so QED

Surley a petrol F10 would be bought for that now???

pajo1981

Bigus wrote: »

Get an Avensis with leather !

Of course, because an Avensis with leather is practically a 5 series :rolleyes:

IMO, where luxury cars become particularly interesting is as 2nd hand buys.

Bigus

-Corkie- wrote: »

Surley a petrol F10 would be bought for that now???

Not if there was effectively none sold.

Owen

Bigus wrote: »

Get an Avensis with leather !

A turd with fuzz growing on it is still a turd underneath. Life's too short to be driving an Avensis.

Bigus

Here ye go good dealer too



http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/520D-SE-/6913373601150850/advert?channel=CARS

bazz26

Greendiamond wrote: »

Budget is max 35k and would like tax band B at worst.

You are willing to spend €35k on a car but then limit it to something that only costs €225 to tax per year or less??

Voodoomelon

Sssh, don't be letting the secret out! :mad:

Greendiamond

bazz26 wrote: »

You are willing to spend €35k on a car but then limit it to something that only costs €225 to tax per year or less??

Are the two mutually exclusive ?

Hootanany

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Sssh, don't be letting the secret out! :mad:

What secret

Voodoomelon

That Irish cars don't have to be sub 2 litre diesels with less than €300 motor tax.

bazz26

Greendiamond wrote: »

Are the two mutually exclusive ?

My point is spending €35k is alot of money. Motor tax is a small part of car ownership and limiting yourself to something in these tax brackets just seems bizzare to me when you are happy to spend so much on the car itself. Why is motor tax such as stickler?

Hootanany

bazz26 wrote: »

My point is spending €35k is alot of money. Motor tax is a small part of car ownership and limiting yourself to something in these tax brackets just seems bizzare to me when you are happy to spend so much on the car itself. Why is motor tax such as stickler?

So buy what then.

bazz26

Hootanany wrote: »

So buy what then.

There are plenty of cars out there under €35k that cost a little more to tax than €225 per year. The more they cost to tax the cheaper they are to buy.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Greendiamond wrote: »

bazz26 wrote: »

You are willing to spend €35k on a car but then limit it to something that only costs €225 to tax per year or less??

Are the two mutually exclusive ?

It is a bit mental in fairness. Such a common attitude in Ireland.

Why spend such an extravagant amount and pay so much attention to once yearly tax?? You'd be better off buying something awesome for 10-15k and using that extra €20,000 (ffs!) left over to pay for your tax for the next 10-15 years.

I always imagine a luxury car as being big, powerful and equipped like a James Bond Car. I don't imagine Bond worrying about tax bands, but if it's a very big deal to you, you might want to reconsider whether a big luxury car is for you.

Shane732

Depends on what you're looking for really....

Buy yourself a 6 cylinder with decent power and you'll enjoy the car.

Hootanany

What would you recommend sorry not hijacking the thread but ready for a change myself.

Greendiamond

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

It is a bit mental in fairness. Such a common attitude in Ireland.

Why spend such an extravagant amount and pay so much attention to once yearly tax?? You'd be better off buying something awesome for 10-15k and using that extra €20,000 (ffs!) left over to pay for your tax for the next 10-15 years.

I always imagine a luxury car as being big, powerful and equipped like a James Bond Car. I don't imagine Bond worrying about tax bands, but if it's a very big deal to you, you might want to reconsider whether a big luxury car is for you.

I see your point hwever I thought lower tax bands meant lower emissions and hence were 'greener'
Can you not have a luxery car thats got low emissions ?

bazz26

If I had €35k to spend on a car I would be aiming for the Jaguar XF.

bazz26

The tax system is changing in the next budget. "Green" premium cars will be targeted for sure, the days for a BMW 520d costing €225 to tax are coming to an ubrupt end.

166man

-Corkie- wrote: »

Surley a petrol F10 would be bought for that now???

Not too many of those around with the 520d obsessed Irish population I'd have thought.

dahamsta

Owen wrote: »

A turd with fuzz growing on it is still a turd underneath. Life's too short to be driving an Avensis.

I agree with you on most things Owen but unless there's something specifically wrong with the Avensis, I can't agree with this. My old man drove Carina after Carina, they were great cars. Toyota tops the reliability indexes year after year. They're not even particularly ugly, just a little bland. A Chevrolet is a turd, but a Toyota?

(Not that I'd have one unless it was free. Even then I'd probably sell it an buy something with a soul.)

166man

bazz26 wrote: »

Why is motor tax such as stickler?

Because at the moment it's motor tax that's driving used car values and as such anyone buying now will want a low tax bill in order to sell on after and get a reasonable value for it. It works both ways.

bazz26

166man wrote: »

Because at the moment it's motor tax that's driving used car values and as such anyone buying now will want a low tax bill in order to sell on after and get a reasonable value for it. It works both ways.

I'd say it is more the general public's sheep mentality towards the cost of motor tax. In the same way that Joe Public who does 5k miles a year goes out and buys a diesel car because it is cheaper to tax than a petrol model despite the fact that he is paying more for the diesel car itself thus pushing the price of petrol models lower meaning they are better value. Your average joe will not go against the grain even though the maths suggest differently.

Shane732

bazz26 wrote: »

If I had €35k to spend on a car I would be aiming for the Jaguar XFR.

Just changed something.....

Would be impossible to find one at €35k though.

166man

bazz26 wrote: »

I'd say it is more the general public's sheep mentality towards the cost of motor tax. In the same way that Joe Public who does 5k miles a year goes out and buys a diesel car because it is cheaper to tax than a petrol model despite the fact that he is paying more for the diesel car itself thus pushing the price of petrol models lower meaning they are better value. Your average joe will not go against the grain even though the maths suggest differently.

I agree with what you are saying but it's not the point I was making. I was saying that low road tax is the focus of many Irish people today and as such will affect the used values for car's. The OP may want something low tax to make it easier to sell on.

Also can ask how you are certain that the tax rates are changing? I'd imagine they will just increase each band in price but not change the system outright.

ninty9er

Bear in mind that a manual 5 Series or A6 will be harder to shift later on than an automatic, and you may as well marry a manual E-Class.

A friend of mine bought an IS220d last And traded it in for a 520d last week. Diesel does not necessarily mean economical, and as he's gone down a year he's paying an extra €300 a year in tax, but he'll save more than that every 6 weeks on diesel compare to the Lexus diesel.

If I had €35k to spend on an up to 2011 car I'd be buy looking to up to band E (€680) and given the low mileage you do I'd get something from among these:

08 BMW 523i* - Nice 6 cylinder sound too
11 Accord - Matches your brief a bit better but it using most of the budget
10 Insignia - Top spec but lots of depreciation already felt
11 Peugeot 508 - Rebirth of the decent Peugeot so the journos say
11 Škoda Octavia VRS - Maybe not luxury, but certainly different and a step up from a standard Avensis
11 Škoda Superb - Back to a bit of luxury

There's more out there, but like I said, If I had €35k to spend on a big saloon...





*I was actually very upset to find only 2 petrol 5 Series on Carzone among the 651 available from 08-. I'm not as much of a petrol head as lots of people here, but I nearly cried - on a side - I've got a job interview next week and there's a dealer with a 07 335i that'll be getting a visit and a cheeky offer if I'm successful!

ShadowHearth

OP, spending 35k on a new car, but limiting yourself to low tax... :rolleyes:

spend 20k on something NICE and use the rest of the money on TAX and extra petrol, holiday, your childs education, mistress, man cave.

dudara

My 2 cents...

I will always try to drive a luxury car. I don't mind stepping back a few years in order to be able to afford a finer car. You will spend a lot of your life in a car, so why not buy the best you can afford?

Lately, I've been driving a lot of hire cars (Chevvy, Nissan, Ford & Toyota) and while they have all been decent cars, they have all felt lightweight and tinny to me. They've all been new (or nearly new) but none of them felt as good as my older BMW.

Greendiamond

ninty9er wrote: »

Bear in mind that a manual 5 Series or A6 will be harder to shift later on than an automatic, and you may as well marry a manual E-Class.

A friend of mine bought an IS220d last And traded it in for a 520d last week. Diesel does not necessarily mean economical, and as he's gone down a year he's paying an extra €300 a year in tax, but he'll save more than that every 6 weeks on diesel compare to the Lexus diesel.

If I had €35k to spend on an up to 2011 car I'd be buy looking to up to band E (€680) and given the low mileage you do I'd get something from among these:

08 BMW 523i* - Nice 6 cylinder sound too
11 Accord - Matches your brief a bit better but it using most of the budget
10 Insignia - Top spec but lots of depreciation already felt
11 Peugeot 508 - Rebirth of the decent Peugeot so the journos say
11 Škoda Octavia VRS - Maybe not luxury, but certainly different and a step up from a standard Avensis
11 Škoda Superb - Back to a bit of luxury

There's more out there, but like I said, If I had €35k to spend on a big saloon...





*I was actually very upset to find only 2 petrol 5 Series on Carzone among the 651 available from 08-. I'm not as much of a petrol head as lots of people here, but I nearly cried - on a side - I've got a job interview next week and there's a dealer with a 07 335i that'll be getting a visit and a cheeky offer if I'm successful!

Thanks for this. I quite like the Skodas. I saw one today. Skoda Octavia 2010 , 18,000 miles, 1.6 diesel , 18k - does that seem good value ?

Have gone from a 5 series BMW to a Skoda

Best of luck with the interview.

166man

166man wrote: »

.......... The OP may want something low tax to make it easier to sell on...............

Spending €35k on a diesel the OP will be losing lots on depreciation regardless of what he buys.

I know the OP mentioned he was looking at 2010/2011 models but the likes of this 2008 low mileage relatively well specced 523SE would appeal to me if I was doing 10k/12k miles per annum and wanted a change from Toyota.

http://www.carzone.ie/search/BMW/5-Series/523-SE-T/6913376140376090/advert?channel=CARS




Buy it for €15k, throw the other €20k in a nice place for 4 or 5 years (the 4 year National Solidarity Bond would turn €20k into €22760 over 4 years) / don't borrow it and enjoy driving around in a nice bus for the next while. Even if you got nothing for it in five years time it would compare well with spending €35k on a more modern diesel from a financial perspective at the OPs mileage.

With modern diesels likely to throw up horrendous bills from time to time the 523 should be no worse.

Greendiamond

ShadowHearth wrote: »

OP, spending 35k on a new car, but limiting yourself to low tax... :rolleyes:

spend 20k on something NICE and use the rest of the money on TAX and extra petrol, holiday, your childs education, mistress, man cave.

Yes I know what you mean. Doesnt make sense really. What about older luxury cars having higher mileage ? Some have well over 100,000 miles on them where my current one has 80,000

I suppose what I want is
A newer car with lower mileage
A bit of luxury inside and not too ugly to look at
Not to expensive to run , times may change and we don't want ongoing costs to be too high
Something that will hold its value a bit

Think RoverJames selection might suit !
Any other suggestions ?

Hootanany

But the the petrol cars use far more fuel.

ninty9er

Greendiamond wrote: »

Thanks for this. I quite like the Skodas. I saw one today. Skoda Octavia 2010 , 18,000 miles, 1.6 diesel , 18k - does that seem good value ?

Have gone from a 5 series BMW to a Skoda

Best of luck with the interview.

I think you've missed the point...with €35k to spend you should be going for an Octavia VRS or a Superb Elegance 170.

You won't see the premium over cheaper spec ones when you go to resell in 5-6 years, but you'll certainly have a better owner experience than someone who drives a 1.6 one.

ninty9er

I'd still have the 08 Beemer above any of the ones I posted with the Insignia Elite and Octavia VRS just behind it.

Tigger

Greendiamond wrote: »

Hi,

Currently driving a Toyota avensis before that had another Toyota. Current car is 2004 so want to change the car. I was originally looking at a 2010/2011 avensis as have always found toyotas reliable however while it's a grand car it's not very exciting
So had a look at a few different cars, the Audi A4, 5 series BMW etc. a bit more expensive but looked great, all bells and whistles with leather interiors etc. My head was turned;)

Of course I will look at mileage, road tax class etc but am just wondering with Audis, Merc, BMW etc are you getting something much better or are you paying for the luxury ' badge'

Are the worth the money ?

today i drove an 2012 s line a8 3.0 tdi with all the toys
it was very nice and only 65 grand

Hootanany

Hootanany wrote: »

But the the petrol cars use far more fuel.

Doing 10k/12k miles per annum that indicates a daily Mon to Fri mileage of about 50 miles/day, a petrol should scratch 30mpg, a diesel 45 ish at best, not a huge difference financially considering a potential €35k initial outlay on a depreciating "asset".

Greendiamond

ninty9er wrote: »

I think you've missed the point...with €35k to spend you should be going for an Octavia VRS or a Superb Elegance 170.

You won't see the premium over cheaper spec ones when you go to resell in 5-6 years, but you'll certainly have a better owner experience than someone who drives a 1.6 one.

No, I get what you are saying. We can spend up to 35k but I suppose we haven't really decided if we want to spend this much. We are not big 'car people' so find it hard to send tht amount on a car but when we were looking today and we sat into a car with a bit of luxury it felt great

Greendiamond

Greendiamond wrote: »

..........

Think RoverJames selection might suit !
Any other suggestions ?

Another low miler.........
http://www.carzone.ie/search/Audi/A6/2.0-TFSI/6613358886688980/advert?channel=CARS



A friend has a 2007 Audi TT with that engine and it'd quite light on petrol, he sees close to 40mpg on a Carlow to Cork spin.

Dr Turk Turkelton

ninty9er wrote: »

Bear in mind that a manual 5 Series or A6 will be harder to shift later on than an automatic, and you may as well marry a manual E-Class.

A friend of mine bought an IS220d last And traded it in for a 520d last week. Diesel does not necessarily mean economical, and as he's gone down a year he's paying an extra €300 a year in tax, but he'll save more than that every 6 weeks on diesel compare to the Lexus diesel.

If I had €35k to spend on an up to 2011 car I'd be buy looking to up to band E (€680) and given the low mileage you do I'd get something from among these:

08 BMW 523i* - Nice 6 cylinder sound too
11 Accord - Matches your brief a bit better but it using most of the budget
10 Insignia - Top spec but lots of depreciation already felt
11 Peugeot 508 - Rebirth of the decent Peugeot so the journos say
11 Škoda Octavia VRS - Maybe not luxury, but certainly different and a step up from a standard Avensis
11 Škoda Superb - Back to a bit of luxury

There's more out there, but like I said, If I had €35k to spend on a big saloon...





*I was actually very upset to find only 2 petrol 5 Series on Carzone among the 651 available from 08-. I'm not as much of a petrol head as lots of people here, but I nearly cried - on a side - I've got a job interview next week and there's a dealer with a 07 335i that'll be getting a visit and a cheeky offer if I'm successful!

Wow what a state this country is in when Skoda = luxury!

I'm actually speechless at this.

(also have a 5 series myself but would not consider it or an A6 or E-class luxury just nice cars.7 series Sclass etc is luxury.)

Greendiamond

Greendiamond wrote: »

........... We are not big 'car people' so find it hard to send tht amount on a car ............

Well taking that into account there's always the likes of this...

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Skoda/Superb/COMFORT-/6913379589366000/advert?channel=CARS



No leather though which is a shame, still just showing what's out there, 2007 may be a tad old too if you're coming from a 2004 too.