Does Irelands love of GAA hamper us being world greats at anything else?

NIMAN

The thread title needs a bit of explaining (since its in the rugby forum), but it was something that came into my head when listening to a piece on our chances v the All Blacks today on The Last Word.

We are a small nation. Some will say that New Zealand are too.

But the difference is, their entire sporting tradition at school is geared towards churning out top quality rugby players. This thread could also apply to Australia with cricket/rugby or South Africa with rugby, or Brazil with soccer, or India with cricket, Spain with soccer .....

But our main push in this country at junior level in schools is towards Gaelic football and hurling, sports that no other country plays. We produce superb and skillful athletes in this field, and other sports such as soccer and rugby certainly do not get the same level of participation.

I wonder if the GAA never existed, and youngsters either aimed to be great at soccer or rugby (or other), how much more impact would we have had as a nation? Imagine if all the top GAA players over the years had channeled their efforts to other sports, how good we might have been?

liam12989

NIMAN wrote: »

I wonder if the GAA never existed,

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

NIMAN

liam12989 wrote: »

:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

No offence meant ...
You know what I mean.

GiftofGab

Yeah of course it hampers our success a little bit but look at australia, they can still succeed at rugby and they have around the same playing numbers as us. They play at a high level at cricket, aussie rules, rugby, league and are the most successful nation in the world (per capita) at the olympics. Soccer is also pretty popular in Oz. So I think its more to do with improving the facilities and coaching than playing numbers. Plus having a variety of sports for kids to choose from is always a good thing.

NIMAN

Agree with most of what you say about Australia, but do they not put a lot of effort into their sporting prowess? Its a big thing for them, probably more than we would strive for here. They are sports mad and very (overly?) competitive.

blinding

NIMAN wrote: »

Agree with most of what you say about Australia, but do they not put a lot of effort into their sporting prowess? Its a big thing for them, probably more than we would strive for here. They are sports mad and very (overly?) competitive.

The better weather in many parts of Australia must also play a part.

Of course "losing" so many possible good players to GAA has to be a factor.

There may be a slight plus that the GAA devlope skills and attitudes that can be useful in other sports.

mikedragon32

NIMAN wrote: »

Agree with most of what you say about Australia, but do they not put a lot of effort into their sporting prowess? Its a big thing for them, probably more than we would strive for here. They are sports mad and very (overly?) competitive.

Looks like you've answered your own question...

It's a cultural thing. Aussies are sport mad and will play just about anything. The Irish are sport mad but tend to focus on one sport. The are great exceptions though, plenty of GAA players excel with the oval ball. One could argue we might not be where we are were it not for the GAA!

irishbucsfan

Australia has a far larger population that allows them to spread out into more sports and maintain the AFL. Also the game is played on the ovals during the winter, so it's not in competition with sports like cricket and it can flourish in towns with just an oval where there are no rugby facilities. That has helped it become as popular as it is.


As for the OP. IF the GAA didn't exist and everyone hated soccer and the only sport we ever played was rugby then sure, maybe we'd be better at it. But that's a fairly massive if and I certainly, despite my love for rugby, would never want to think of an Ireland with our GAA.

andrewdcs

Quite the opposite, Irealnd excel at many sports, above what would "statistically" be expected because of organisations at youth level like the GAA. Kids playing sport / any sport and following sporting idols is a good thing.

Just look at our nearest and dearest neighbours for comparrison.

Defiler Of The Coffin

If the GAA had never existed...

Man that question goes a whole lot deeper than just about how it would affect other sports, the GAA was a force for nationalism and cultural revival back in its early days, it was woven into the fabric of Irish life.

But to stay on topic, given our small population I think we punch above our weight when it comes to sport in general, look at the success of the rugby clubs and international team. More investment is needed though for sport in general, it's amazing Katie Taylor managed to achieve what she did when you see the state of the facilities she trained in.

Father Damo

Aussies are more fair weather than sports mad when it comes to international sport. Hardly any of them watch the Wallabies, and Socceroos interest amongst the average Joe would only really peak if they looked like getting out of their world cup group (mind you, they get a scandalously easy route to the world cup against various Asian minnows and even then the matches are pretty dour)

JustinDee

No, to answer question.
Sports also benefit off each other. Since you use Australia as an example, take a look at the players in the current Aussie side who started in rugby league: Beale, O'Connor, Palu, Barnes. And thats only the current squad I'm talking about.
How many Ireland players played GAA sports as nippers? First thing to do is get kids to play sports. Next is to develop them as they progress further.

How popular is GAA to say Ireland loves it, by the way? Soccer is the largest sport bar none in this country. In numbers, in profile, in sales.

The Aussie

Father Damo wrote: »

Hardly any of them watch the Wallabies

Shane, you should know that Union is not a big sport in Australia, hardly anyone watches the Wallabies because hardly anyone watches Union.

kilns

perhaps the narrow selection policies of rugby confined to certain schools in various parts of the country in favour of clubs, could be a reason why some players get lost to the rugby team?

blackhound

There are a huge number of reasons why GAA is so immersed in our culture historically but for me one of the huge developments that IRFU need to make is to spread into more rural areas in the country.

What I mean by this is, as a kid for me to play Rugby I would've had to travel through 3 to 4 different GAA clublands to get to the nearest Rugby teams, which were all in the larger towns. Surely if each of these clubs can pick 15 players to play for them underage then surely 2 or 3 of them combined could form a rugby team. Obviously this would involve huge funding for facilities and the logisitics would be quite colossal but with Rugby riding high at the moment so many parents would love to see their kids playing.

Brian

I went to primary school in New Zealand. Rugby really wasn't emphasized that much and soccer was just as popular if not more so. However the rugby that was played was all touch rugby which I think might shed some light on why they're all so good at scoring from broken play. I think generally they're also just a more active nation when it comes to outdoor activities.

lala88

So now its the GAA;s fault they dont win :rolleyes:

19543261

Brian wrote: »

I went to primary school in New Zealand. Rugby really wasn't emphasized that much and soccer was just as popular if not more so. However the rugby that was played was all touch rugby which I think might shed some light on why they're all so good at scoring from broken play. I think generally they're also just a more active nation when it comes to outdoor activities.

Would you say there'd be more an emphasis even in secondary?

Brian

19543261 wrote: »

Brian wrote: »

I went to primary school in New Zealand. Rugby really wasn't emphasized that much and soccer was just as popular if not more so. However the rugby that was played was all touch rugby which I think might shed some light on why they're all so good at scoring from broken play. I think generally they're also just a more active nation when it comes to outdoor activities.

Would you say there'd be more an emphasis even in secondary?

Can't say for certain, but it seemed to be more of a high school thing.

Fireball07

In general, I'm going to say no.


And don't forget the popularity of rugby has exploded in recent years, and the provinces have really began to use that to produce better players.


We have a talented group of players atm, but I only expect it to get better and better over the next 5-10 years.

RMD

Personally I don't see GAA benefiting the forwards in anyway but I think GAA from an early age is a great way to develop the skills required in a child to succeed at Rugby, then once they develop the physique for it in secondary school this can be fully developed on. O'Driscoll and Rob Kearney were 2 great GAA players before they focused on rugby, their ability to catch, kick and their general handling skills are amazing. When speaking to Frank O'Driscoll once personally he told me if it weren't for Brian playing GAA from such an early age he doesn't think he would have developed into the player he is. His view is it gifted him with a great skillset to build upon.

With the continued success of Irish clubs rugby is also growing hugely, combine this with the quality of the Leinster and Munster academies we could only be seeing the first wave / second wave of many fantastic players to come.

Fireball07

RMD wrote: »

Personally I don't see GAA benefiting the forwards in anyway but I think GAA from an early age is a great way to develop the skills required in a child to succeed at Rugby, then once they develop the physique for it in secondary school this can be fully developed on. O'Driscoll and Rob Kearney were 2 great GAA players before they focused on rugby, their ability to catch, kick and their general handling skills are amazing. When speaking to Frank O'Driscoll once personally he told me if it weren't for Brian playing GAA from such an early age he doesn't think he would have developed into the player he is. His view is it gifted him with a great skillset to build upon.

With the continued success of Irish clubs rugby is also growing hugely, combine this with the quality of the Leinster and Munster academies we could only be seeing the first wave / second wave of many fantastic players to come.

Tommy Bowe and Shane Horgan were pretty handy too, by all accounts.

And Ryan and TOL were excellent hurlers. In fact, Ryan took up rugby to work on his size for hurling, afaik. His hands are pretty good for a lock, I'd say the hand-eye co-ordination needed for top class hurling would definitely help.

ormond lad

Fireball07 wrote: »

In fact, Ryan took up rugby to work on his size for hurling, afaik. His hands are pretty good for a lock, I'd say the hand-eye co-ordination needed for top class hurling would definitely help.

Yep. He needed to bulk up a bit to get near the tipp minor hurlers. Went into rugby sessions with pat whelan, who was involved with munster youths at the time, and Pat saw the huge potential in donnacha. Pat took donnacha down to Munster Youths. Donnacha made the Munster and Irish Youths sides. Then went into Munchins and played a big role in munchins senior cup win in 2002.

event

lala88 wrote: »

So now its the GAA;s fault they dont win :rolleyes:

yes, thats exactly what he said.
did you read the thread?

:rolleyes: indeed

lala88

event wrote: »

yes, thats exactly what he said.
did you read the thread?

:rolleyes: indeed

Yes i did, and it seems the Rugby boys are running out of excuses to over up there lack of success

Fishooks12

lala88 wrote: »

Yes i did, and it seems the Rugby boys are running out of excuses to over up there lack of success

Dominating European and Rabo rugby. Some of the best players in the NH only being held back by an awful coach. Lack of success you say?

mikedragon32

lala88 wrote: »

Yes i did, and it seems the Rugby boys are running out of excuses to over up there lack of success

Are you just here to troll the Rugby Forum?

jm08

JustinDee wrote: »

No, to answer question.
Sports also benefit off each other. Since you use Australia as an example, take a look at the players in the current Aussie side who started in rugby league: Beale, O'Connor, Palu, Barnes. And thats only the current squad I'm talking about.
How many Ireland players played GAA sports as nippers? First thing to do is get kids to play sports. Next is to develop them as they progress further.

How popular is GAA to say Ireland loves it, by the way? Soccer is the largest sport bar none in this country. In numbers, in profile, in sales.

Remind me again which sport in Ireland has an 82K capacity stadium and has no problem filling it a couple of times a year.

irishbucsfan

Yeah it's really hard to think of excuses to explain the fact weve only won heineken cups in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2012.

mikedragon32

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah it's really hard to think of excuses to explain the fact weve only won heineken cups in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2012.

(...and 1999)

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah it's really hard to think of excuses to explain the fact weve only won heineken cups in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2012.

Plus a grand slam in 09!

jm08

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah it's really hard to think of excuses to explain the fact weve only won heineken cups in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2012.

Lets see ....

Freddie Pucarello, Trevor Halstead, Rua Tipoki, Mafi, Howlett, Straus, Wright, Elsom, Nacewa, Contempomi, Hines, Thorn .... etc. etc. etc.

None of them played gaelic!

teednab-el

Fishooks12 wrote: »

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah it's really hard to think of excuses to explain the fact weve only won heineken cups in 2006, 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2012.

Plus a grand slam in 09!

Christ....don't forget that.

Phonehead

I suppose you could also ask, does Irelands love of GAA ensure that kids all over the country get to play sport from an early age?? Thus ensuring for country with the population of a city in most other countries we punch well above our weight in all sports.

Thank you GAA for having the structure and resources to ensure every child from an early age is shoved into a field by their parents to learn and enjoy sport.

irishbucsfan

Phonehead wrote: »

I suppose you could also ask, does Irelands love of GAA ensure that kids all over the country get to play sport from an early age?? Thus ensuring for country with the population of a city in most other countries we punch well above our weight in all sports.

Thank you GAA for having the structure and resources to ensure every child from an early age is shoved into a field by their parents to learn and enjoy sport.

That's certainly how I see it myself. Being a generally sporty nation is worth losing a few players to our national sport.

Rugby is a minority sport in every country in the world. Its not like we're at a disadvantage to anyone over it.

lala88

Do Ireland play in the Heineken Cup? Also where are all the World Cups we were ment to win?

lala88

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Dominating European and Rabo rugby. Some of the best players in the NH only being held back by an awful coach. Lack of success you say?

Blame the manager another Rugby fans favorite excuse

Fishooks12

lala88 wrote: »

Blame the manager another Rugby fans favorite excuse

Is that all you can say? Can you argue that Kidney isn't holding the team back or are you just going to say everything is a "rugby crowd excuse"

Not having a swipe at the GAA because I love it but it's not like Ireland have to be successful at that so what are you even comparing Irish rugby too?

lala88

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Plus a grand slam in 09!

What did they win before of since then?

Fishooks12

teednab-el wrote: »

Christ....don't forget that.

Lets not, a great achievement under a limited manager with a squad not as goods as the one we currently possess. not to mention but for the bounce of a ball we'd have had another in 07

lala88

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Is that all you can say? Can you argue that Kidney isn't holding the team back or are you just going to say everything is a "rugby crowd excuse"

Not having a swipe at the GAA because I love it but it's not like Ireland have to be successful at that so what are you even comparing Irish rugby too?

Well it always seems to be someone eases fault be it manager, the refs, did you ever stop to think maybe there not actually that good?

Ireland haven't been successful at Rugby have they? For the last 10 plus years all we hear is this is our year and bar 2009 they've done nothing

Fishooks12

lala88 wrote: »

What did they win before of since then?

Before it they won nothing before 1948. You know that but you want me to say it because you feel it gives your argument weight.

We haven't won in the 3 years since because we have no backs coach and a head coach who refuses to adapt to the way the game is being played since or pick the right players

irishbucsfan

lala88 wrote: »

Do Ireland play in the Heineken Cup? Also where are all the World Cups we were ment to win?

If you think Ireland have ever been favourites for a world cup then you really are a fool!

Tox56

Fishooks12 wrote: »

lala88 wrote: »

What did they win before of since then?

Before it they won nothing before 1948. You know that but you want me to say it because you feel it gives your argument weight.

We haven't won in the 3 years since because we have no backs coach and a head coach who refuses to adapt to the way the game is being played since or pick the right players

He doesn't have an argument, he just wants a reaction

Fishooks12

lala88 wrote: »

Well it always seems to be someone eases fault be it manager, the refs, did you ever stop to think maybe there not actually that good?

Ireland haven't been successful at Rugby have they? For the last 10 plus years all we hear is this is our year and bar 2009 they've done nothing

We're dominating club rugby and have some of the best players in the world in BOD, Kearney, Ferris, SOB, POC , Healy and Sexton

Our national form has not mirrored this because of a bad coach. it's not an excuse, just a fact

irishbucsfan

lala88 wrote: »

Well it always seems to be someone eases fault be it manager, the refs, did you ever stop to think maybe there not actually that good?

Ireland haven't been successful at Rugby have they? For the last 10 plus years all we hear is this is our year and bar 2009 they've done nothing

We've won two grand slams. 10 Triple Crowns.

But don't let me get in the way you begrudging Irish people who are excited about Irish sport!

lala88

irishbucsfan wrote: »

If you think Ireland have ever been favourites for a world cup then you really are a fool!

Why then is every World Cup going to be our World Cup?

Fishooks12

lala88 wrote: »

Why then is every World Cup going to be our World Cup?

Who says this? I've never heard any Irish rugby fan utter those words

irishbucsfan

lala88 wrote: »

Why then is every World Cup going to be our World Cup?

What on earth are you talking about?

Go and find me one article by a decent journalist before a world cup saying we would win.

We have been ranked 3rd going into a world cup, I think that's the highest. And those rankings are based mathematically on results.

lala88

Fishooks12 wrote: »

We're dominating club rugby and have some of the best players in the world in BOD, Kearney, Ferris, SOB, POC , Healy and Sexton

Our national form has not mirrored this because of a bad coach. it's not an excuse, just a fact

easy to do that in a stop that only a handful of county's is it not?

So now Sexton is one of the best players in the world? During the 6 Nations people weren't saying that?

lala88

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Who says this? I've never heard any Irish rugby fan utter those words

Im sure you haven't...