Standardised tests/Dumcondras etc.

byhookorbycrook

Ok, 'tis the season for Drumcondra/Micra/Sigma tests.If people have queries and want to post here, feel free.

Schools must now do these tests in 2nd/4th and 6th but most schools choose to do them from 1st to 6th inclusive.

ellieh1

Is there a standardised test for Senior Infant pupils? Thanks in advance

byhookorbycrook

The most commonly used test in senior infants is the MIST. It tests letter sounds, listening,phonological awareness etc.It is usually given in the 5th term of a child's schooling, i.e. around Easter.It's a screening test rather than a standardised test-so it identifies children who may need extra support at literacy skills in specific areas.It doesn't give a percentile/sten score like the Drumcondra tests would.

ellieh1

Thanks for the response byhookorbycrook. I have no idea as to whether my daughter has taken one of these tests but was interested to hear if there was one for her class.

byhookorbycrook

There are other tests but that is the most common.

littlebug

How are the results these usually reported? We don't get much information back from our school. From memory the report card usually lists English/ Irish/Maths and a number of out 10 with an indication of average/ above average etc. I have no idea if these relate to the standardised tests or overall work

My daughter (3rd class) says she did some tests a few weeks back while my son (first class) says he just did a type of spelling test in a book that was different that his usual spelling test.

I have no particular concerns about either of them but it would be good to know how they did. I'm told we're getting reports early this year (this week) so will have time to talk to teachers about it if needs be...just not sure what I'm asking about!

ShamoBuc

littlebug wrote: »

How are the results these usually reported? We don't get much information back from our school. From memory the report card usually lists English/ Irish/Maths and a number of out 10 with an indication of average/ above average etc. I have no idea if these relate to the standardised tests or overall work

My daughter (3rd class) says she did some tests a few weeks back while my son (first class) says he just did a type of spelling test in a book that was different that his usual spelling test.

I have no particular concerns about either of them but it would be good to know how they did. I'm told we're getting reports early this year (this week) so will have time to talk to teachers about it if needs be...just not sure what I'm asking about!

From now on the results of the standardised tests will be in your end of year school report. You will probably get a letter explaining the results aswell. The tests will have a number of different scores that you might receive. The school will normally pick 1 or 2.

The mark out of 10 is the STEN. A sten of 3 or 4 would indicate the possible need for learning support. 5 and 6 would be considered average.
7 and 8 high average. 9 very high average and a 10 is the very highest score you can attain.

Another score you might see is the standard score. They usually vary from 55 to 145 with 100 being the average. 70-79 low. 80-89 low average. 90-109 average. 110-119 high average. 120-129 high. 130 and above very high. About 2% of students score above 130 while 50% score between 90 and 109.

You might get a percentile also. That would indicate that out of a random 100 children that age around the country, a child with 90% would be ahead of 89 of the 100 and behind 10 of them.

I think all the above is correct but feel free to amend anthing if I have got it incorrect.
Hope that helps.

muckisluck

Ncca.ie have a helpful section for parents on reporting. I have enquired in the past about STen scores and here is the information I've been given

STen 1,2,3 are what is termed significantly below average and about 9% of the population will have such scores. (1 being the lowest)
STen 4: Low Average (but average nonetheless) and about 16% of the population should get this - while schools often offer learning support to these children it is not always offered due to the fact that resources are scarce.
STen5/6: Average and about 50% of the population will get this;
STen 7: HIgh Average and again 16% should come in with this score
STen 8,9,10: Significantly above average and again 9% of the population should have such scores
These scores are standardised using the bell curve and when children start to score in a manner that these percentages are not maintained then the tests are renormed so that the scores will fit.
It's as clear as mud to all students of statistics anyway:D:D

byhookorbycrook

Sten 3 can actually above the cut off for learning support- the official DES guidelines sany 10th percentile or under. We offer support to those up to STEN 3, but I know other schools have been chatised for taking kids above the 12th percentile. Sten 4 certainly would not automatically qualify for learning support.

mky17

MOD NOTE:Threads merged


Daughter got maths results with a Sten Score of 3

Im really worried ......

Any advice on what i can do to help her during the summer months - I feel she is only gonna struggle even more going into 3rd next year

Thanks all

aisher

I know how you feel - my kids got 3 for the past two years - up to 2nd class they were doing fine getting 4 and 5 but once they hit 3rd class it all went down- I went up to the school at the start of 5th class to see if they could have some extra help and was told no due to lack of resources - basically I was told to go home and work with the kids myself - not easy when the methods seem to have changed so much since my day!
I tried an online computer programme that has the Irish Maths syllabus - IXL.com - you can try it out for free and if you think it would suit her you can sign up - I did for all three of my kids - I cant say they liked having to do extra maths all year but I do think it really helped them - I am waiting for their results to come home from the school and I am hoping they will have managed to get even a 4 in their Sten. Going into 6th class this September so its a real worry.

mky17

aisher wrote: »

I know how you feel - my kids got 3 for the past two years - up to 2nd class they were doing fine getting 4 and 5 but once they hit 3rd class it all went down- I went up to the school at the start of 5th class to see if they could have some extra help and was told no due to lack of resources - basically I was told to go home and work with the kids myself - not easy when the methods seem to have changed so much since my day!
I tried an online computer programme that has the Irish Maths syllabus - IXL.com - you can try it out for free and if you think it would suit her you can sign up - I did for all three of my kids - I cant say they liked having to do extra maths all year but I do think it really helped them - I am waiting for their results to come home from the school and I am hoping they will have managed to get even a 4 in their Sten. Going into 6th class this September so its a real worry.

Thanks a mill just checked out that website looks good - how long would you spend on it im thinks 15 mins what u think?

aisher

I tried to do either 30 mins or finish off a task - you will find they get 'awards' as they do each task - sometimes the task might be completed in 5 mins but if they get wrong answers it takes much longer - my kids are 10 so 30 mins was ok - I think for your child 15 mins would be plenty - good luck!

byhookorbycrook

Mky17, I would suggest you buy the book New Wave Mental Maths 2 for the summer. It is quick enough to do, as the maths, as the name suggests, should not need to be worked out. It revises the 2nd class work and for every 10/10 you could put a sticker on the record sheet and then when she gets say ten tens, a small reward.

The other thing I would say is tables,tables,tables. Addition and subtraction tables need to be answered instantly, if she is to be able to work out maths in a reasonable amount of time.

sumdog.com is free and has lots of fun games.I would not spend more than 15 mins per day on maths,but try and do some every day.

hungergamer

Mky17, Sheppardsortware.com is a fantastic website with loads of maths games covering all areas of the curriculum. Number work is a key to all areas of maths- so simple tasks like counting on, counting back, finding the missing number etc are always useful.

mky17

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Mky17, I would suggest you buy the book New Wave Mental Maths 2 for the summer. It is quick enough to do, as the maths, as the name suggests, should not need to be worked out. It revises the 2nd class work and for every 10/10 you could put a sticker on the record sheet and then when she gets say ten tens, a small reward.

The other thing I would say is tables,tables,tables. Addition and subtraction tables need to be answered instantly, if she is to be able to work out maths in a reasonable amount of time.

sumdog.com is free and has lots of fun games.I would not spend more than 15 mins per day on maths,but try and do some every day.

They have done this book already but i guess would be no harm to get again...

byhookorbycrook

No, don't do it again ,that would be soul destroying!!
Maths Challenge 2 would be a better idea:
http://www.folens.ie/catalog/list_books.php?catid=160&class_id=%&level=1&serieslink=%

Also check out:
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/

mky17

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

No, don't do it again ,that would be soul destroying!!
Maths Challenge 2 would be a better idea:
http://www.folens.ie/catalog/list_books.php?catid=160&class_id=%&level=1&serieslink=%

Also check out:
http://www.woodlands-junior.kent.sch.uk/maths/

Ah thanks a mill - whats you opinion on ixl.com?

byhookorbycrook

Am way too mean to pay for something like that!!!Had a free trial but sumdog is as good ,I think.

Marpete33

Hi, this is my first experience of these tests. My eldest son is 7 and in first class. He was assessed as gifted in junior infants and was accepted into CTYI. I got his report today and he has scored a sten 10 in everything. He did the sigma T maths test and the drumcondra reading/comprehension and spelling test. Obviously i know that he has done extremely well but should I be talking to his school about moving him up a class if hes that advanced? Thanks

byhookorbycrook

How would he be socially?Acceleration can be good or bad. Have a look at giftedkids.ie,lots of info on options on the site.

ShamoBuc

Marpete33 wrote: »

Hi, this is my first experience of these tests. My eldest son is 7 and in first class. He was assessed as gifted in junior infants and was accepted into CTYI. I got his report today and he has scored a sten 10 in everything. He did the sigma T maths test and the drumcondra reading/comprehension and spelling test. Obviously i know that he has done extremely well but should I be talking to his school about moving him up a class if hes that advanced? Thanks

There are alot of factors when considering moving up a grade - and alot of them are not academic. He is 7 at the end of first, move him up a year = 7 starting 3rd. This could cause alot of problems socially for him, especially if it was an 'older' 3rd. What kind of friends has he in 1st, would he even know anyone in 3rd? What if he doesn't take to the lads in 3rd and becomes unhappy - would that mean he would have to go back?
Balancing social and academic importance is very important if you are considering moving him. Also, if you moved him now he wold miss the Communion class - which might or might not be important to you, but he might feel as if he missed out.
As long as he is happy at school, it might be an idea to leave things as they are. Moving half way through 4th - into 5th - and having the second half of the year in 5th might be an idea, but it really is a hard decision to make, but I would wait till then at least.
Personally, as long as he is happy I'd be slow to push him on - what age would that make him at leaving cert.....going into college etc also another consideration.

Marpete33

Thanks for the info!

Actually I didnt think of the communion next year :rolleyes: Yes he will have to stay on for that! But I was thinking if he could go straight from 2nd into 4th or something like that. He is very sociable and has lots of friends many who would now be going into 3rd class as first and second shared a classroom and teacher this year. Thats my concern aswell, that he will be going over the same stuff again. He has been grouped with the brightest in second class for reading and spelling etc this year. I suppose I will have to see how next year goes for him.

Thanks again

thesimpsons

my girl got 10s for years in primary and to be honest we never thought much about it. we'd never heard of the CTYI and as education would be highly regarded in this house we thought it was kinda normal to be good, but we never considered moving her up a grade. I'd really feel she needed to stay with her age group for maturity and development reasons. we gave her loads of books, crosswords, etc and she'd always do her homework at a higher standard than the rest of her class. would you consider moving into a gaelscoil as this might give a bigger challenge while he is settling into the language ? I'm sorry I didn't do this when she was younger but she's now in a gaelcolaiste (secondary) and thriving on it.

Hedgecutter

Is there any sample pages for the sigma test. I have a 9 year old in third class.

James Bond Junior

Hedgecutter wrote: »

Is there any sample pages for the sigma test. I have a 9 year old in third class.

No. You would be doing your child a diservice by preparing them as it skews the results. A higher score can actually deny a child from getting support time so it is a big no no. If your child drops a score it is not the end of the world especially if they are in a odd numbered classroom eg 3rd, 5th etc as the jump widens every time.

Hedgecutter

James Bond Junior wrote: »

No. You would be doing your child a diservice by preparing them as it skews the results. A higher score can actually deny a child from getting support time so it is a big no no. If your child drops a score it is not the end of the world especially if they are in a odd numbered classroom eg 3rd, 5th etc as the jump widens every time.

Where abouts did I say my son would see the sample papers.

I have no intention of trying to skew the results and totally understand how stupid an idea that would be.

I want them, I want to pick books for extra work over hols to bring him up a level and I been given the run around by the school.

James Bond Junior

Buy a book called new wave mental maths at your childs class level. It is the best prep you can do as there are no sample papers.

Maybe I have taken you up the wrong way but I was only trying to give you an informed answer in professional opinion, no need to be rude.

wirelessdude01

Hedgecutter wrote:

Is there any sample pages for the sigma test. I have a 9 year old in third class.

A simple no. Do not be coaching him/her.

wirelessdude01

Hedgecutter wrote:

I want them, I want to pick books for extra work over hols to bring him up a level and I been given the run around by the school.

Does he actually need to go up a level? Remember the poor child is in 3rd class and despite the rubbish you read in the papers and hear on the radio children also need a break to recharge. Just do some maths using the environment during the summer. Of far greater importance for young boys is for them to read more and also read a greater variety of books.
More outdoor time rather than fortnight and the like.

Hedgecutter

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Buy a book called new wave mental maths at your childs class level. It is the best prep you can do as there are no sample papers.

Maybe I have taken you up the wrong way but I was only trying to give you an informed answer in professional opinion, no need to be rude.

I asked one question and you formed your own WRONG opinion.

Hedgecutter

Thanks guys. I get those books.

James Bond Junior

Hedgecutter wrote: »

I asked one question and you formed your own WRONG opinion.

I think I understand why the school may have given you the run around.

A Law

You are looking for sample papers which will influence what you teach to your child. Therefore you will be teaching to the test, even if you think you won't. The drumcondra test is a test of reading and comprehension, your child can improve on these by reading books and being read books for one. With the sigma it covers almost all aspects of the maths curriculum including curriculums in future years so making sure they understand their homework and the maths they did in school is a good start.

byhookorbycrook

There aren't sample papers for this very reason. I think some parents can over estimate these tests, they are not meant to be taken in isolation and are only a picture of how the child performs on one day. New Wave Mental Maths can be good over the summer, if a child needs extra support, but otherwise, I'd focus on practical maths,as already mentioned.Language is a huge thing- so try to use the correct terms when you speak of anything maths related.

Measures/weights- baking, cooking, Use fractions, for dividing things into halves and quarters.,A standard six, nine, or 12 bun tin is great for addition and/or multiplication skills. Skip counting is brilliant too! Physically handling things and saying if they are heavier/lighter than 1kg, more than a litre, measuring heights- human and say, sunflowers for starters. and so on.

Keeping a diary and recording dates/times in both analogue and digital formats, planning what T.V. programmes to watch and seeing how long they will take,reading bus or train timetables.

2-d and 3-d shapes all around them, terms like vertices etc and the relationship between 2-d/3-d shapes. Tessellation and symmetry through art, angles in the environment- right angles, great than a right angle, straight angles, clockwise, anti-clockwise.

I'm sure you will be able to come up with lots more, but if a child were to be familiar with all of the above over the summer.