Diet + Workout Advice

Gym Halpert · 08-06-2012 5:25pm #1

Hi all,

Long time lurker, first time poster. I've been working out in the Gym for the past year or so, I started for the first 2 - 3 months just mainly doing cardio then went on to doing weight training. I really enjoyed it so I got really into it over the past year. I'm now at a point where I really want to put on some serious size so I wanted to run my current diet and routine by you guys and see if I could get some tips and pointers.

Gender: Male

Age: 24

Height: 6.3"

Weight: 91-92KG

I weighed 112KG of pure lazy fat when I started last year and am now down to the above weight and hovering around the 8% bodyfat mark. (Pinch tested) Unfortunately though, I'm holding all my remaining fat in my mid section. Bicep and triceps are showing 0mm but my front has a little bit to go so that's where I stand currently. So I'm looking to fuel my muscles for large growth and repair but also looking to shed the remaining fat I have left. Which I know will probably be quite difficult as growing to the size I want will require a lot of food.

Typical Days Diet.

Breakfast:

1 serving of Flahavan's quick oates porridge with 1 teaspoon of honey and a pinch of cinnamon. (Planning on adding a boiled egg or 2 to this meal)

Lunch:

2 Scoops of whey protein in 400ml of light milk.

Stir fry of brown rice and Quorn chicken pieces/Spagbol of Organic brown Spaghetti with Quorn mince.

I get a spicy szechuan tomato sauce with the stir fry and Dolmio bolognese sauce with onion and garlic for the bolognese. (I know these probably aren't great but they make the meals tasty)

Dinner:

Usually a stew with carrots, potatoes, onions, leeks and lean chicken pieces. Other times I'll have a mash dinner of mash potatoes, carrots, sprouts and maybe frozen 100% chicken breast in breadcrumb. (not often)

Supper

Usually something small like cream crackers with a smidge of Flora light or a cheese sandwich or something else on Wholemeal bread.

2 Scoops of whey protein in 400ml of light milk.

I'm struggling to hit the 2500 calorie mark and am trying to hit 3000.
I've been eating at a slight deficit for so long it's taking a bit of getting used to. I'm a fairly plain eater as the above probably shows so I'm doing my best to get everything I need in while still eating food I can enjoy. I might have a cheeky Chinese or Pizza once a month or so, I don't drink.

Workouts

I usually work out 3-4 days a week. I usually do Monday, Wednesday and Friday of weights then 10-15 mins of HIT Threadmill. (Threadmill is a recent addition) And then on Saturday I usually do a class the gym instructor does. Basically a lot of cardio, core and leg work.

Monday:

Chest/Shoulders/Triceps

Barbell bench press - 3 x 8-10

Dumbbell bench press - 3 x 8-10

EZ-Bar Military press - 3 x 8-10

EZ-Bar Upright row - 3 x 8-10

Lying tricep extension - 3 x 8-10

Tricep pushdown - 3 x 8-10

(HIT Threadmill recently 10-15 mins)

Wednesday:

Back/Legs/Biceps

Barbell row - 3 x 8-10

Wide grip pulldown - 3 x 8-10

Barbell squats - 3 x 8-10

Calf lifts with the machine bench press - 1 x 30-36

Barbell bicep curl - 3 x 8-10

Dumbbell bicep curl - 3 x 8-10

(HIT Threadmill recently 10-15 mins)

Friday:

Would be what I did on Monday so each routine gets a turn each week to be done twice.

Saturday:

Cardio/core/leg class.

Thanks in advance.

Gym Halpert · 09-06-2012 12:45pm

Anyone? I know the post is a mouthful but any help is much appreciated.

HHtraining · 09-06-2012 4:41pm

Eat a lot more real protein. Four shakes a day is a lot. Only take in protein shakes when you really can't eat enough protein.

Eat more good fats, like nuts, nut butters, oily fish, avacados, cook with cocnut oil, etc. This should be about 30% of your diet.

Just wondering why you are spliting your workouts?

Try using the barbell more with less reps, e.g.

Deadlifts
Back Squats/Front squats/overhead squats
Pull ups/chin ups - not to failure.
Bench press - only if you can do lots of proper press ups first (chest to ground)
Kettlebells

Cardio
rowing
sprinting
Interval rowing/sprinting
Box jumps
skipping - single unders and double unders.

It would be worth trying a personal trainer for a couple of sessions to get a good idea of what to do. Some will do a program for you to hit in the gym

christmas2012 · 09-06-2012 4:46pm

Did you ever try fat buring supplements,or natural ones like what you get in the health food shop?
I swear this works,it literally burns fat off your body the pounds will roll off you if you try this:
one small measure of cider or cyder vinegar,(it boosts the metabolism).Have this three times a day.(Do not dilute it) have it neat,one small tiny measure is all you need in a glass.
Three iodine pills a day.And have the small measure of cider vinegar with it.In conjunction with this you can only have three meals a day.But even if you stick to your four(your supper,i wouldnt tend to),you can still burn off the weight.
Iodine is produced naturally in your body(it boosts up the metabolism),if you have too much iodine you can get graves disease.So dont od or you can get serious problems.

Gym Halpert · 09-06-2012 5:37pm

HHtraining wrote: »

Eat a lot more real protein. Four shakes a day is a lot. Only take in protein shakes when you really can't eat enough protein.

Currently the protein shakes are only making up 96g of my 200+ daily target. If there's an easy/cheap way to add more protein to my natural diet please give me some pointers on it, I'm finding it hard to be hungry enough to add more meals or portion size currently.

Eat more good fats, like nuts, nut butters, oily fish, avacados, cook with cocnut oil, etc. This should be about 30% of your diet.

I was looking at nuts for a good fat/protein addition to my diet as they're easy to snack on. But what type of nuts should I be looking at? I've seen cashews mentioned a lot but I can't stand the taste of them, almonds I'm not too fond of either. If I was able to down pistachios or dry roasted nuts all day I'd be fine lol.

Just wondering why you are spliting your workouts?

Gym instructor told me it's the best way of giving each area enough rest/recovery time. Should I should be doing every muscle group every day?

Try using the barbell more with less reps, e.g.

Deadlifts
Back Squats/Front squats/overhead squats
Pull ups/chin ups - not to failure.
Bench press - only if you can do lots of proper press ups first (chest to ground)
Kettlebells

Cardio
rowing
sprinting
Interval rowing/sprinting
Box jumps
skipping - single unders and double unders.

I use the Bar for most of my exercises, but you suggest I lower my reps? 8-10 may have been a bit off on my part I am sticking with 8 reps mostly. But if I go much lower isn't that more strength training? I did a fair bit of that a month or so ago, looking for pure size now. I'm trying to add in as much HiT as I can on the threadmill/bike.

It would be worth trying a personal trainer for a couple of sessions to get a good idea of what to do. Some will do a program for you to hit in the gym

I can't really afford a PT at the moment, I'm trying to get as much help as possible from the time I get with my gym instructor and on here and around the net in general.

christmas2012 wrote:

Did you ever try fat buring supplements,or natural ones like what you get in the health food shop?
I swear this works,it literally burns fat off your body the pounds will roll off you if you try this:
one small measure of cider or cyder vinegar,(it boosts the metabolism).Have this three times a day.(Do not dilute it) have it neat,one small tiny measure is all you need in a glass.
Three iodine pills a day.And have the small measure of cider vinegar with it.In conjunction with this you can only have three meals a day.But even if you stick to your four(your supper,i wouldnt tend to),you can still burn off the weight.
Iodine is produced naturally in your body(it boosts up the metabolism),if you have too much iodine you can get graves disease.So dont od or you can get serious problems.

I tried CLA's before but only went on them for 1 month, didn't really notice my fat loss increase more than it was going down naturally. I'm interested in the Cyder Vinegar you mentioned as I've seen it mentioned a fair bit.

Not too gone on the iodine, have heard a lot of people saying there are risks involved even at the recommended dose. Besides I need to eat more than 3 times a day to get the calories I require for growth in.

I'm trying to gain large amounts of muscle while losing as much fat as possible, if that's possible.

cmyk · 09-06-2012 6:36pm

I'm not actually sure what your goal is? Why not just stick with the dieting until you're happy with bodyfat levels?

It might be worth getting someone to do your skin fold measurements properly, if your Bicep/tricep readings are zero they're doing it wrong.

And you are right about the CLA not helping with your fat loss, so your gut instinct is right. Don't waste your money, little to no studies showing it has any effect on fat loss, save for those studies by...surprisingly, manufacturers of CLA containing supplements.

Get the basics sorted first. Training program looks ok, I'd sub out a few exercises and maybe change some of the ordering, with maybe some trunk work in there too (apologies if there is and I've missed it...typing on phone).

Gym Halpert · 09-06-2012 8:55pm

cmyk wrote: »

I'm not actually sure what your goal is? Why not just stick with the dieting until you're happy with bodyfat levels?

Well I've gotten decent progress in my shoulders, back, arms and chest so I don't want to lose all that progress, if I knew then what I know now I'd have just kept on the cardio and diet for a few more months before starting the weight training but since I have decent muscle size/definition in some areas I don't want to lose it all to get the last few inches off my mid section. Is that not possible? My goal is to basically bodybuild, while knocking the remaining fat off at the same time.

It might be worth getting someone to do your skin fold measurements properly, if your Bicep/tricep readings are zero they're doing it wrong.

Well basically what I was told was that calipers close at a certain mm and there could be anything from 0 to 3mm in that space but she reckoned she couldn't tug any bodyfat from my arms.

And you are right about the CLA not helping with your fat loss, so your gut instinct is right. Don't waste your money, little to no studies showing it has any effect on fat loss, save for those studies by...surprisingly, manufacturers of CLA containing supplements.

Good to know, it does seem a bit of a money racket in pharmacies now.

Get the basics sorted first. Training program looks ok, I'd sub out a few exercises and maybe change some of the ordering, with maybe some trunk work in there too (apologies if there is and I've missed it...typing on phone).

Got any example of good trunk exercises? I do the class which is heavily core based but I do need to add more in. Any pointers on my whole workout in general would be great, sub what out and change the order of what?

cmyk · 09-06-2012 10:02pm

Gym Halpert wrote: »

Well I've gotten decent progress in my shoulders, back, arms and chest so I don't want to lose all that progress, if I knew then what I know now I'd have just kept on the cardio and diet for a few more months before starting the weight training but since I have decent muscle size/definition in some areas I don't want to lose it all to get the last few inches off my mid section. Is that not possible? My goal is to basically bodybuild, while knocking the remaining fat off at the same time.

You can still diet while weight training. If you're looking at bodybuilders for inspiration, they certainly don't stop the weight training and substitute in the cardio. You're goal (as is theirs) is to lose fat while holding on to as much muscle mass as possible, and weight training is an important part of that. They, in simple terms, run an energy deficit, (exactly as you've clearly done to drop your weight so far) to lose weight or an energy surplus to gain weight by manipulating strength training, conditioning, diet or all three.

Gym Halpert wrote: »

Well basically what I was told was that calipers close at a certain mm and there could be anything from 0 to 3mm in that space but she reckoned she couldn't tug any bodyfat from my arms.

Did she give you a breakdown of your other skinfold sites?

Gym Halpert wrote: »

Got any example of good trunk exercises? I do the class which is heavily core based but I do need to add more in. Any pointers on my whole workout in general would be great, sub what out and change the order of what?

It depends on where you're starting from, I'd probably start with some static core work, planks - front/reverse/side. Moving on to some dynamic work later.

Here's a few simple changes I'd swap out below...

I do have some reservations though. For shoulder health I think workout A is going to be pretty tough. There's essentially more pushing weekly than pulling but rectifying that would mean a bit of a re-think and I don't have the time to do that right now. There's also a lack of hip dominant work, no deadlifts/glute/hamstring work etc. along with possibly an argument for mixing up some set/rep schemes too. Needless to say technique should be up to scratch on all of the lifts too.

Workout A - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Barbell bench press - 3 x 8-10
Incline DB bench press - 3 x 8-10
Seated DB Military press - 3 x 8-10
EZ-Bar Upright row - 3 x 8-10
Lying tricep extension - 3 x 8-10
Tricep pushdown - 3 x 8-10
Front Planks - 3 X 30s-60s

Workout B - Back/Legs/Biceps
Barbell squats - 3 x 8-10
Leg Curls - 3 X 8-10
Barbell row - 3 x 8-10
Wide grip pulldown - 3 x 8-10
Calf lifts with the machine bench press - 2 x 20-25
Dumbbell bicep curl - 3 x 8-10
Side Planks - 3 X 30s - 60s

Gym Halpert · 10-06-2012 9:31am

cmyk wrote: »

You can still diet while weight training. If you're looking at bodybuilders for inspiration, they certainly don't stop the weight training and substitute in the cardio. You're goal (as is theirs) is to lose fat while holding on to as much muscle mass as possible, and weight training is an important part of that. They, in simple terms, run an energy deficit, (exactly as you've clearly done to drop your weight so far) to lose weight or an energy surplus to gain weight by manipulating strength training, conditioning, diet or all three.

Can you go through this with me in detail if you have the time? Is this this different to being at a calorie deficit? (Pardon my newbie questions)

Did she give you a breakdown of your other skinfold sites?

They're all written on my gym card down at the gym so don't have them on hand, she took them all and did the math looked at the chart and put my bodyfat at 7.96%, so I reckon it's probably just slightly more than that if you say 0mm on my arms is unlikely.

It depends on where you're starting from, I'd probably start with some static core work, planks - front/reverse/side. Moving on to some dynamic work later.

Here's a few simple changes I'd swap out below...

I do have some reservations though. For shoulder health I think workout A is going to be pretty tough. There's essentially more pushing weekly than pulling but rectifying that would mean a bit of a re-think and I don't have the time to do that right now. There's also a lack of hip dominant work, no deadlifts/glute/hamstring work etc. along with possibly an argument for mixing up some set/rep schemes too. Needless to say technique should be up to scratch on all of the lifts too.

I had a lower back problem over the past year which seems to be clearing up now so we're bringing in deadlifts slowly to my routine. Any pointers you have on mixing up sets/reps and how they'll benefit me would be great. (I appreciate the time this takes you, very grateful)

Workout A - Chest/Shoulders/Triceps
Barbell bench press - 3 x 8-10
Incline DB bench press - 3 x 8-10
Seated DB Military press - 3 x 8-10
EZ-Bar Upright row - 3 x 8-10
Lying tricep extension - 3 x 8-10
Tricep pushdown - 3 x 8-10
Front Planks - 3 X 30s-60s

So from flat DB bench press to incline, ok. Any reason I'm ditching the EZ-Bar for the military press? I should have probably added it was seated.

Workout B - Back/Legs/Biceps
Barbell squats - 3 x 8-10
Leg Curls - 3 X 8-10
Barbell row - 3 x 8-10
Wide grip pulldown - 3 x 8-10
Calf lifts with the machine bench press - 2 x 20-25
Dumbbell bicep curl - 3 x 8-10
Side Planks - 3 X 30s - 60s

Ok so adding in leg curls, fine with me. Changing calf lifts from 1 set to 2, any reason for this? The instructor had told me just not to take a rest between sets on this exercise but I never had time to ask why. And removing the EZ-Bar curls, any reason for this? And I assume for the planks it's 3 x 30s-60s each side, so 6 sets total?

Thanks again for all your help, much appreciated.

cmyk · 10-06-2012 12:35pm

Gym Halpert wrote: »

Can you go through this with me in detail if you have the time? Is this this different to being at a calorie deficit? (Pardon my newbie questions)

Essentially the same thing, I just prefer the term energy balance. When using the word calories it basically implies that diet is the only variable. Have a read of the stickies or google the term for a better understanding.

Gym Halpert wrote: »

I had a lower back problem over the past year which seems to be clearing up now so we're bringing in deadlifts slowly to my routine. Any pointers you have on mixing up sets/reps and how they'll benefit me would be great. (I appreciate the time this takes you, very grateful)

No problem, but I can't really take it any further, I don't know you on a personal basis and would need to see you move/lift to give you any decent advice. Again I'm pretty sure the stickies have the basics of strength training. I, like other fitness professionals here usually get paid for this sort of advice too

. Bear that point in mind though, none of us have seen you move or seen your technique.

Gym Halpert wrote: »

So from flat DB bench press to incline, ok. Any reason I'm ditching the EZ-Bar for the military press? I should have probably added it was seated.

I've seen so many people with bad shoulders at this stage I simply prefer accessory work to be done with db's. I'm not sure why military presses were done with the ez bar in the first place?

Gym Halpert wrote: »

Ok so adding in leg curls, fine with me. Changing calf lifts from 1 set to 2, any reason for this? The instructor had told me just not to take a rest between sets on this exercise but I never had time to ask why. And removing the EZ-Bar curls, any reason for this? And I assume for the planks it's 3 x 30s-60s each side, so 6 sets total?

It was as simple as this...I added in an exercise so I took one out to accomodate it, and as you've already pointed out correctly you'll essentially be spending double the time on the side planks already so it was simply to keep both sessions similar timewise. By all means throw in your other set of biceps, but you're already getting bicep work in your rowing etc. too.

As for the calves...meh a higher volume is usually how they're dealt with, so I just split them into 2 sets for you rather than one giant set. It's worth mentioning that I certainly don't have a 'bodybuilding' background so others that do may have a different take on it.

Gym Halpert · 10-06-2012 1:23pm

I understand that without seeing me in action my questions were probably tough to answer, I also appreciate you usually are compensated for such help and advice.:o

Thanks very much cmyk, for your help and advice, I'll definitely be incorporating it into my routines. If I'm unsure of a technique I always ask my instructor or consult youtube etc.

As always any more advice you might have on my diet or anything is extremely welcome, as is anyone elses.

Thanks again.

cmyk · 10-06-2012 1:57pm

No worries at all, there's a certain amount of 'if it aint broke don't fix it' you've done really well to drop 40+lbs in the last year, just keep that going while introducing the strength training.

Sticking to the basics consistently always trumps the smaller details when it comes to fat loss...

- Create that 'energy deficit' somehow either through diet alone or diet and training.
- Keep protein levels high enough (more important while dieting).
- Do 'some' form of balanced strength training with 'some' cardio
- And probably the hardest bit...try to avoid getting sucked into any internet information that blurs those first few points.
- Rinse/repeat until desired effect has been achieved.

Diet + Workout Advice

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