Land value Today

telly_lover

maxxuumman wrote: »

Three separate blocks of land have been sold in my area over the last 6 months.
Size of blocks ranged from 31 to 54 acres.
Prices ranged from 13 to 15,000:eek:

i bought the journal yesterday

was amazed at the diversity of price range


farm near cashel made around 15 k

a very large farm in carlow made under 7 and it sounded like a pretty good one , carlow has mostly good land

big farm for sale between mullingar and athlone in the next few weeks aswell as a large farm in kilkenny with what looks like a huge country pile

telly_lover

bob charles wrote: »

Sorry to hear about your case, but why do you say its criminal. Isn't this what you signed up to when you borrowed the money. I know its what I sign up to each and every time I sign the dotted line. If I can't, don't, won't make my repayments you can sell my land. banks aren't not in the business of having to sell land as it gives them unneeded publicity and also they will never make a penny out of you again

is the above post nesscesery ?

Figerty

Surely quoting 15K per acre for a farm probably includes the farm buildings instead of how much is paid for an acre. I know it can be hard to seperate the two things. But a farm sold me about 2 years ago for €400k, when you separated the value of sheds and euipment it came to no more than €3,000 per acre.

As for Bobs comments, they are harsh but true. It wasn't that long ago that on 'Ear to the ground' they were promoting the idea of putting land up as collateral for building or buying houses as an alternative 'farm' enterprise.

I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with the banks on this level, it can't be easy.

telly_lover

Figerty wrote: »

Surely quoting 15K per acre for a farm probably includes the farm buildings instead of how much is paid for an acre. I know it can be hard to seperate the two things. But a farm sold me about 2 years ago for €400k, when you separated the value of sheds and euipment it came to no more than €3,000 per acre.

As for Bobs comments, they are harsh but true. It wasn't that long ago that on 'Ear to the ground' they were promoting the idea of putting land up as collateral for building or buying houses as an alternative 'farm' enterprise.

I feel sorry for anyone that has to deal with the banks on this level, it can't be easy.

something being true and feeling the need to say it are two different things

as for sheds , most auctioners dont place that much value on them unless its a milking parlour - dairy set up , certainly not the cost of putting them up if its the likes of regular haysheds , silage pit etc

a house will add value to a farm but not to the degree it used to , lifestyle blocks are a thing of the past

bob charles

telly_lover wrote: »

is the above post nesscesery ?

is your post necessary, Its just I don't have a problem if the bank decide to sell some of my assets if the time ever comes due to me reneging on a deal I had done with them. I have more than enough money borrowed to realize the stress money can have on individual. Often when your working at your hardest you are making the least such as this year but repayments still have to be made.

telly_lover

bob charles wrote: »

is your post neccessary, its just I don't have a problem if the bank decide to sell some of my assets if the time ever comes due to me reneging on a deal I had done with them. I have more than enough money borrowed to realize the stress money can have on individual. Often when your working at your hardest you are making the least such as this year.

is my post nesscessary

which post are you refering to


the poster refered to the fact that the bank forced him to sell land and you lecture him in a high handed manner about stuff that everyone already knows , i.e , that loans come with a risk

my point is simple , no need to rub salt in wounds

bob charles

telly_lover wrote: »

as for sheds , most auctioners dont place that much value on them unless its a milking parlour - dairy set up , certainly not the cost of putting them up if its the likes of regular haysheds , silage pit etc

Are you for real. Good farmyard adds seriously to a property if its a real farmer that is going buying the land. Anyway are you going buying our what are is it just talk. personally I would never entertain buying land as it would seriously affect the ability of a business to grow. I can rent land for 1.5% of it value so why the hell would anyone decided to buy land and pay 6% on interest on an interest only loan. I can rent 4 acres for the interest only payment on 1 acre.

bob charles

telly_lover wrote: »

is my post nesscessary

which post are you refering to


the poster refered to the fact that the bank forced him to sell land and you lecture him in a high handed manner about stuff that everyone already knows , i.e , that loans come with a risk

my point is simple , no need to rub salt in wounds

And, do you consider it criminal if the bank sell my land off if I can't repay my loans as agreed. I don't

rancher

bob charles wrote: »

And, do you consider it criminal if the bank sell my land off if I can't repay my loans as agreed. I don't

No but I consider it criminal that there is so many suicides every week due to the pressure put on vulnerable people by the very people who lent irresponsibly in the first place,
I would consider it criminal the way they wasted old peoples savings on hairbrained funds and left them in poverty in their old age,
I would consider it criminal that no ..anker has done a day in jail yet, and finally I wouldn't be that sure that coming on boards defending bankers isn't trolling

telly_lover

rancher wrote: »

No but I consider it criminal that there is so many suicides every week due to the pressure put on vulnerable people by the very people who lent irresponsibly in the first place,
I would consider it criminal the way they wasted old peoples savings on hairbrained funds and left them in poverty in their old age,
I would consider it criminal that no ..anker has done a day in jail yet, and finally I wouldn't be that sure that coming on boards defending bankers isn't trolling

old people are very well looked after in this country , the pension is very high and those pensioners who completley rely on 232 per week + perks are not the kind who were able to afford shares in BOI etc , no state could afford to cover share investments in banks , thats not to say i agree with the goverment covering investments in bank bonds by the way , the cowards saved bondholders because germany told them the whole euro might collapse

rancher

telly_lover wrote: »

old people are very well looked after in this country , the pension is very high and those pensioners who completley rely on 232 per week + perks are not the kind who were able to afford shares in BOI etc , no state could afford to cover share investments in banks , thats not to say i agree with the goverment covering investments in bank bonds by the way , the cowards saved bondholders because germany told them the whole euro might collapse

Lots of pensioners had/have bank shares and it was bankers greed and mismangement that has devalued them, lots of pensioners put money into managed ( !!!) funds on the advice of their bank and have lost 50% or more, un regulated bankers have us where we are today. Ask a banker how much their salary has decreaed since they destroyed the economy, you might be very surprised, and they're still retiring on full pensions paid by the tax payer and THEY'RE EXPECTING US TO HONOUR OUR COMMITMENTS

axel7

rancher wrote: »

Lots of pensioners had/have bank shares and it was bankers greed and mismangement that has devalued them, lots of pensioners put money into managed ( !!!) funds on the advice of their bank and have lost 50% or more, un regulated bankers have us where we are today. Ask a banker how much their salary has decreaed since they destroyed the economy, you might be very surprised, and they're still retiring on full pensions paid by the tax payer and THEY'RE EXPECTING US TO HONOUR OUR COMMITMENTS

And why did these pensioners hand over their money ? Were they forced? No. They suffered from the need to make more money, greed set in as they weren't happy with what they had. They expected the high returns that were the norm at the time. Anyone with any knowledge of markets will be aware of the inverse relationship between risk and return. However, they (almost everyone whos laost money)look to blame someone else. I've no doubt certain banks were reckless, but branding all bankers all corrupt irresponsible idiots who destroyed the economy is like saying all farmers are sitting on their arm chairs counting the days until the SFP. Yeah a few, but the exception rather than the rule.

telly_lover

rancher wrote: »

Lots of pensioners had/have bank shares and it was bankers greed and mismangement that has devalued them, lots of pensioners put money into managed ( !!!) funds on the advice of their bank and have lost 50% or more, un regulated bankers have us where we are today. Ask a banker how much their salary has decreaed since they destroyed the economy, you might be very surprised, and they're still retiring on full pensions paid by the tax payer and THEY'RE EXPECTING US TO HONOUR OUR COMMITMENTS

there was a massive run up on stock prices and the bubble burst in 2008 , banks were leveraged up to their eyeballs globally , it was not just shares in irish banks which dived , pensioners recieve generous entitlements from the goverment , none of them go hungry , id be much more concerned about the fortunes of young people with low prospects , one thing is sure anyone in there twenties today wont see anything like the kind of state pension which those in their sixties and upwards recieve today , buy a private pension if you care about your retirement , at the end of the day , if you bet on the stock market , you take on risk , doesnt matter whether its bank of ireland , glanbia , mc donalds or even apple

if you want capital guarentee , buy german goverment bonds

1chippy

pensioners recieve generous entitlements from the goverment , none of them go hungry , id be much more concerned about the fortunes of young people with low prospects , one thing is sure anyone in there twenties today wont see anything like the kind of state pension which those in their sixties and upwards recieve today , buy a private pension if you care about your retirement , at the end of the day , if you bet on the stock market , you take on risk ,

Where do you think your private pension goes? I set mine up at twenty. shut it last year. they had the ignorance to ask me why? Its currently worth one sixth of the value invested.
I,m not going to throw more fuel to your search for a new cause on boards but was it not you, that argued blatantly last week about minimum wage and yet you reckon pensioners should be forgotten. Most farmers threw a few very hard earned quid aside into such schemes. Thats part of the reason a lot are still farming after retirement. because some have to.
Sorry if this is throwing the thread off topic.

bob charles

they bought shares and the risk is that they will go up or down. I had serious reservations about one of them "positive farmer" meetings held in Limerick going back few years when they were spouting outside farm gate investments just as ag was about to kick off. I buy animals everyday of the week with the same risks. If they fall do you think I should also get a few bob because I lost money. Get real FFS. Accept responsibility for personal actions. I always said that people should invest money on things they understand and can give an exact description about the business they have invested in under 20 seconds. Do you think most of the people with bank shares understood why they were valued at €20 a share and when they fell to €0.10 why this was the case.

axel7

I always said that people should invest money on things they understand and can give an exact description about the business - +1 my thoughts exactly

Farmer Pudsey

Bob-Axel while you are right about people investing in what they understand you also have to understand a large amount of people bought pension and still are paying into that are mismanaged.

How can you have a situtation where after tax relief most pension funds are losing money. This is not a new phenomen as even during the boom they were only returning 5-6%. In the eighties when you got tax relief on insurance investments Irish life funds only returned 3-4% after tax relief after 12-15 years and you had to pick when to sell. The Irish pension/insurance industry is a disgrace and maybe corupt would be a better word.:mad:

Alot of pensioners/investors were targeted by the banks as there (the banks) shares were starting to fall and encouraged to buy bank shares. Even Sean Quinn like it or not when the bank found out the nature and amount of his investment its only worry was how to protect itself not its shareholders,depositers or bondholders and none of them have gone to trial not to mind to gaol.

What the bankers/investment advisers did was the equivlent of a cattle dealer buying cattle for a farmer knowing that they would lose money on them because he paid over the top for them to enrich a fellow dealer somthing I know no dealer would do:cool:

bob charles

dealers operate in a free market unfortunately bankers operate in a regulated market, unregulated market is probably a better reflection though. Pension policy adopted by Governments have being noting short of a disgrace. Invest in such bogus schemes at your peril. Auld fellows loosing money dabbling in beef animals are still doing better than having money in the majority of pensions

niallofthenine

guys, find/ create your own thread for discussing pensions:cool:

telly_lover

1chippy wrote: »

pensioners recieve generous entitlements from the goverment , none of them go hungry , id be much more concerned about the fortunes of young people with low prospects , one thing is sure anyone in there twenties today wont see anything like the kind of state pension which those in their sixties and upwards recieve today , buy a private pension if you care about your retirement , at the end of the day , if you bet on the stock market , you take on risk ,

Where do you think your private pension goes? I set mine up at twenty. shut it last year. they had the ignorance to ask me why? Its currently worth one sixth of the value invested.
I,m not going to throw more fuel to your search for a new cause on boards but was it not you, that argued blatantly last week about minimum wage and yet you reckon pensioners should be forgotten. Most farmers threw a few very hard earned quid aside into such schemes. Thats part of the reason a lot are still farming after retirement. because some have to.
Sorry if this is throwing the thread off topic.

your post is all over the place and im not sure what your talking about in places but as regards pensions

a pension needs to be left to run for thirty years , it could have a horrible first ten and stil lend up with huge gains , over a thirty year period , stocks outperform every other assett class ( and tend to make up at least 70% of a fund ) but in reality the market has not moved since the dot com bubble burst in 2002 , from 1980 - 2000, it went up about 500% , the assett balance is important but there is usually a standard mix unless you sign up with a complete dud broker

its also important to use the correct broker , FBD are not too bad , i wouldnt go near irish life

telly_lover

bob charles wrote: »

they bought shares and the risk is that they will go up or down. I had serious reservations about one of them "positive farmer" meetings held in Limerick going back few years when they were spouting outside farm gate investments just as ag was about to kick off. I buy animals everyday of the week with the same risks. If they fall do you think I should also get a few bob because I lost money. Get real FFS. Accept responsibility for personal actions. I always said that people should invest money on things they understand and can give an exact description about the business they have invested in under 20 seconds. Do you think most of the people with bank shares understood why they were valued at €20 a share and when they fell to €0.10 why this was the case.

the vast bulk of those " off farm investment seminars " were run by spoofers who thought if anyone can make money selling property , i can , you would have been better sticking money in some kind of ETF which gives you a basket of global stocks , at least you get diversity

telly_lover

Farmer Pudsey wrote: »

Bob-Axel while you are right about people investing in what they understand you also have to understand a large amount of people bought pension and still are paying into that are mismanaged.

How can you have a situtation where after tax relief most pension funds are losing money. This is not a new phenomen as even during the boom they were only returning 5-6%. In the eighties when you got tax relief on insurance investments Irish life funds only returned 3-4% after tax relief after 12-15 years and you had to pick when to sell. The Irish pension/insurance industry is a disgrace and maybe corupt would be a better word.:mad:

Alot of pensioners/investors were targeted by the banks as there (the banks) shares were starting to fall and encouraged to buy bank shares. Even Sean Quinn like it or not when the bank found out the nature and amount of his investment its only worry was how to protect itself not its shareholders,depositers or bondholders and none of them have gone to trial not to mind to gaol.

What the bankers/investment advisers did was the equivlent of a cattle dealer buying cattle for a farmer knowing that they would lose money on them because he paid over the top for them to enrich a fellow dealer somthing I know no dealer would do:cool:

the reason a lot of funds make modest gains is because the brokers and fund managers skim off the top , they call it fees but its a skim

add to that when people are playing with other peoples money , they are less bothered about doing their research , the fund managers who dont even live in ireland often take a peg **** at the wall approach , hope something sticks , they get paid regardless , you can end up in a situation where instead of investing in a paddy power , they throw your money at an anglo irish , some brokers are more prudent than others , irish life are a disaster in my experience , they pursued my mother to invest in a fund in early 2007 , i dropped in on the sale and asked the sales person ( thats all they are ) from irish life to put the money in india china + commodities and to avoid property and irish equities , now even though commodities ( gold , oil , food , cereals , steel ) and china boomed from 2007 to 2012 and they did despite the stock market crash in 2008 , the fund never made a schilling , all the gains were wiped out in outrageous trumped up managment fees , beit from irish life or the two bit fund manager who obviously pegged the money at chinas version of quinn group or anglo irish

personally speaking id perfer put a lump sum in an ETF as the costs are tiny compared to a managed fund , they cover the entire stock market and if left long enough should deliver , cut out the middle man

beretta686s

sum land down here in kilkenny went to 20k an ac lastweek madness

telly_lover

beretta686s wrote: »

sum land down here in kilkenny went to 20k an ac lastweek madness

will be interesting to see what the place outside kilkenny city with the country manor on it makes

sheeper

I reckon the bank is correct in leading to the farmer within reason , this country was made for one thing only farming !!! The only other business are multi nationals. The bank has time on its side and can wait a generation or two and we all know the land history in Ireland
They are not making any more land
Finally the farmer in fairness to him did not go mad during the good times, and now is being critised for being wealthy. Bit rich In my book ( or not so rich as the case may be )

telly_lover

sheeper wrote: »

I reckon the bank is correct in leading to the farmer within reason , this country was made for one thing only farming !!! The only other business are multi nationals. The bank has time on its side and can wait a generation or two and we all know the land history in Ireland
They are not making any more land
Finally the farmer in fairness to him did not go mad during the good times, and now is being critised for being wealthy. Bit rich In my book ( or not so rich as the case may be )

their not criticised for being wealthy , their criticised for talking poor while being wealthy

they werent making any more land fifty years ago either btw , just saying

pakalasa

I think the days of making easy money in financial investmets are gone. Believe it or not, some countries like Germany, China etc are sitting on wads of cash. Literally, with a click of a button they can move money around the globe. They have plenty of well-trained people spotting value, so it doesn't take long for the money to pile into good good returns and thereby wipeout any value.
Am I the only one that thinks property in Ireland is a good investment at the moment.........:D

telly_lover

pakalasa wrote: »

I think the days of making easy money in financial investmets are gone. Believe it or not, some countries like Germany, China etc are sitting on wads of cash. Literally, with a click of a button they can move money around the globe. They have plenty of well-trained people spotting value, so it doesn't take long for the money to pile into good good returns and thereby wipeout any value.
Am I the only one that thinks property in Ireland is a good investment at the moment.........:D

houses are a good investmen right now but only in premium locations in dublin , everywhere else will see significant reductions in price for a while yet , the cost of driving to work is becoming very expensive , this will hit the commuter belt locations of meath , kildare etc , the west is totally over supplied with houses , thats before we look to the uncertainty surrounding the euro , if ireland left the euro , houses would take another dive , however , there is always a certain demographic in every country who stay relativley wealthy no matter how bad the overall economy is , doctors , solicitors , highly paid people , if i was buying a house right now as an investment , i would focus entirely on only four areas , DUBLIN 1 , DUBLIN 2 , DUBLIN 4 and DUBLIN 6 , a permanent minority of wealth keeps a permanent strong floor in theese areas

reilig

telly_lover wrote: »

their not criticised for being wealthy , their criticised for talking poor while being wealthy

they werent making any more land fifty years ago either btw , just saying

Who is criticising them?

For every "wealthy" farmer there is 100 poor farmers - asset rice, but their asset is giving a very poor return. Many farmers are operating at a loss, but its their way of life. In years gone by, many farmers sold a site or planted a few acres of their worst land to ensure that they would get by for a few years.

The majority of these high prices that you refer to are paid for by money earned from different industries than that which the land is bought for. Areas which have motorways runnning throught them which were built under the NDP and farmers used the compensation to invest in more land. Money wasn't an obsticle when you had the backing of the road money in your back pocket and farmers weren't afraid to pay over the odds.

I can think of 10 farms that I know of, sold in the last 10 years, which were bought by people who didn't make the money to pay for it on their farm. In turn, when I think of any that have repayments on them, the return from the land purchased may be able to meet the repayments, but after that there is no profit. Solicitors, pub owners, chicken farmers, supermarket owners, vets, teachers, bank managers and factory owners are some of the people that I can identify who bought land that I know of in the last 4 years.

If you think about it, it makes sense. You have a big salary coming in and you are paying tax on a lot of it at 40%. You can invest it in a pension scheme, but the way that these schemes have performed over the last 5 years, you may not have anything left in it at the end. If you take out a sizeable loan to pay for land, you can run the farm as a loss (You would only have to show a profit every 4 years) and invest money from your off farm income to make the repayments. You won't have to pay tax on this loss. You could be left with a sizeable and valuable asset at the end of it which could be sold off if you needed a lump sum or could be leased out or farmed by yourself in your retirement to generate a regular income.

Farms are not the only business where you could have an investment like this, so it would not be fair for you to single that out. However, high prices for land are wise investments for some people. However, high prices make it difficult for people who rely on their farm for their sole income to expand!

telly_lover

reilig wrote: »

Who is criticising them?

For every "wealthy" farmer there is 100 poor farmers - asset rice, but their asset is giving a very poor return. Many farmers are operating at a loss, but its their way of life. In years gone by, many farmers sold a site or planted a few acres of their worst land to ensure that they would get by for a few years.

The majority of these high prices that you refer to are paid for by money earned from different industries than that which the land is bought for. Areas which have motorways runnning throught them which were built under the NDP and farmers used the compensation to invest in more land. Money wasn't an obsticle when you had the backing of the road money in your back pocket and farmers weren't afraid to pay over the odds.

I can think of 10 farms that I know of, sold in the last 10 years, which were bought by people who didn't make the money to pay for it on their farm. In turn, when I think of any that have repayments on them, the return from the land purchased may be able to meet the repayments, but after that there is no profit. Solicitors, pub owners, chicken farmers, supermarket owners, vets, teachers, bank managers and factory owners are some of the people that I can identify who bought land that I know of in the last 4 years.

If you think about it, it makes sense. You have a big salary coming in and you are paying tax on a lot of it at 40%. You can invest it in a pension scheme, but the way that these schemes have performed over the last 5 years, you may not have anything left in it at the end. If you take out a sizeable loan to pay for land, you can run the farm as a loss (You would only have to show a profit every 4 years) and invest money from your off farm income to make the repayments. You won't have to pay tax on this loss. You could be left with a sizeable and valuable asset at the end of it which could be sold off if you needed a lump sum or could be leased out or farmed by yourself in your retirement to generate a regular income.

Farms are not the only business where you could have an investment like this, so it would not be fair for you to single that out. However, high prices for land are wise investments for some people. However, high prices make it difficult for people who rely on their farm for their sole income to expand!

anytime land goes up for sale , all the neighbours take note , all of a sudden the assumed to be poor is able to splash the cash