immersion overheating water

alanmc87

Hi my immersion seems to be overheating the water. would have it on sink for a half hour and the water is scalding. It only seems to be drawing 3amps aswell only using a fluke open jaw meter. new thermostat maybe?

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

Hi my immersion seems to be overheating the water. would have it on sink for a half hour and the water is scalding. It only seems to be drawing 3amps aswell only using a fluke open jaw meter. new thermostat maybe?

doubt if its only drawing 3amps to be honest
rough guide 1kw=5amps

possibly wired wrong

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

using a fluke open jaw meter

you need to be on the individual core to test correctly

alanmc87

seems to be wired correctly bath and sink are switching on fine and get 230 across them. just fitted a timeclock for the sink only.

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

just fitted a timeclock for the sink only.

should have fitted the clock before the switch
this would give you the option to choose sink/bath

alanmc87

i get a reading of 24ohms on the sink and 16ohms on the bath. i took a feed+n + sw to the timeclock and joined the black cable in the immersion switch. they seem to be switchin over fine cant understand why its geting so hot.i thought that would be fine maybe not? just bought a fluke t5-600 thought i would of being able to measure current through the leads. but only seems to measure current through the jaw.

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

i get a reading of 24ohms on the sink and 16ohms on the bath. i took a feed+n + sw to the timeclock and joined the black cable in the immersion switch. they seem to be switchin over fine cant understand why its geting so hot.i thought that would be fine maybe not? just bought a fluke t5-600 thought i would of being able to measure current through the leads. but only seems to measure current through the jaw.

seems complicated(cant understand what you done tbh)
live neutral earth into timeclock
live neutral earth from clock to switch
cable from switch to immersion(blue/neutral black/sink brown/bath)newer immersions

meercat

if you need to test the current drawn(amps)
put the jaws of your meter around the neutral wire and test for sink and then bath
do not do this if you are not competent as the power needs to be on to test this

alanmc87

i have a l+n+e from a 13a spur to the immersion switch. took a l+n+sw to timeclock the sw at the timeclock is used to switch the sink wire which is the black cable i joined it in the immersion switch in a connector.And the brown cable for the bath is still switched at the immersion switch. hope it is clearer m8. maybe there is no problem but seems very hot to me!

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

i have a l+n+e from a 13a spur to the immersion switch. took a l+n+sw to timeclock the sw at the timeclock is used to switch the sink wire which is the black cable i joined it in the immersion switch in a connector.And the brown cable for the bath is still switched at the immersion switch. hope it is clearer m8. maybe there is no problem but seems very hot to me!

no its not clear at all

my advise now is to get someone competent to have a look at this for you

you shouldnt have a 13amp spur for starters
think you need professional help here

alanmc87

13a spur should be ok on a ring circuit??

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

13a spur should be ok on a ring circuit??

immersion should be on its own circuit(rcd protected)
an immersion will draw 13amps on bath alone

DublinDilbert

what sort of thermostat is fitted? what is its setting? can you see it turning on / off on your clamp meter?

The time switch should be fitted before the bath/sink switch as others have said...

alanmc87

its an old element maybe 10 years old no thermostat is on the element. i have tested it and is switching on and of on the element no problem getting 230 when timeclock is on and 230 when immersion sw is on. and nothing when they are of. i am just finished my apprenticship but immersions are fairly new to me. the whole tank seems to be scalding when the timeclock is on for 30mins and checked for power when its on and only getting power on the black cable. its a 3kw element top entry cylinder

alanmc87

what is the problem with taking the supply for the timeclock of the immersion sw

DublinDilbert

alanmc87 wrote: »

its an old element maybe 10 years old no thermostat is on the element. i have tested it and is switching on and of on the element no problem getting 230 when timeclock is on and 230 when immersion sw is on. and nothing when they are of. i am just finished my apprenticship but immersions are fairly new to me. the whole tank seems to be scalding when the timeclock is on for 30mins and checked for power when its on and only getting power on the black cable.

There has to be a thermostat, i'm wondering has someone removed it cause its faulty. The thermostat is usually in a pipe that goes down inside the cylinder and allows you to set the temperature.

If there's no thermostat the water can get very warm. You need a thermostat otherwise you'll end up boiling over and sending water up the expansion pipe into the coldwater tank in the attic.

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

its an old element maybe 10 years old no thermostat is on the element. i have tested it and is switching on and of on the element no problem getting 230 when timeclock is on and 230 when immersion sw is on. and nothing when they are of. i am just finished my apprenticship but immersions are fairly new to me. the whole tank seems to be scalding when the timeclock is on for 30mins and checked for power when its on and only getting power on the black cable. its a 3kw element top entry cylinder

if its an old immersion then possibly
blue/sink
black/bath
brown/neutral
this was the old color scheme(all changed since)
check your wiring again

all immersions have a thermostat somewhere

meercat

DublinDilbert wrote: »

There has to be a thermostat, i'm wondering has someone removed it cause its faulty. The thermostat is usually in a pipe that goes down inside the cylinder and allows you to set the temperature.

If there's no thermostat the water can get very warm. You need a thermostat otherwise you'll end up boiling over and sending water up the expansion pipe into the coldwater tank in the attic.

agree

meercat

alanmc87 wrote: »

what is the problem with taking the supply for the timeclock of the immersion sw

best practice to place the clock first

otherwise there may be a live wire at the immersion even if clock is turned off

Yzf R6

Definitely thermostat,either faulty or set too high.

alanmc87

i cant see a thermostat on the element ha it should be visible right?? the connections are correct as i tested for R and got 24ohms across sink (black cable) and 16 across bath(brown cable). seems quiet high for a 3kw element 40ohms?

alanmc87

guessing ill replace the element it could be 20 years old anyway but never noticed a problem with it b4

Diggerdunne

maybe put up a pic of the immersion and see if we can see the thermostat....

K.Flyer

alanmc87 wrote: »

i cant see a thermostat on the element ha it should be visible right?? the connections are correct as i tested for R and got 24ohms across sink (black cable) and 16 across bath(brown cable). seems quiet high for a 3kw element 40ohms?

The readings are not too far off. But there should be a thermostat on the neutral (blue) cable before it joins the common pillar of the elements. Is there a small approx 10mm hole (pocket) in the centre of the unit? This is where the thermostat should be located.
The immersion should be, as said in an earlier post, be wired directly to the board. Incorrectly wired immersions can cause fires, best to get a qualified person to sort it out for you.

alanmc87

DSC00369.jpg

Diggerdunne

maybe there is a wrap around stat on the cylinder????

alanmc87

IM AFRAID NOT M8 STRANGE ONE ??

Yzf R6

Take off all lagging and look for a stat,if you can't find one your probably better off buying a new immersion heater for your own peace of mind and not to mention your electricity bill.Have you had the heater long?

K.Flyer

Yzf R6 wrote: »

Take off all lagging and look for a stat,if you can't find one your probably better off buying a new immersion heater for your own peace of mind and not to mention your electricity bill.Have you had the heater long?

+1

That unit looks very odd (and old), I can easy say I have changed hundreds of immersions over the years and not seen one like that.

alanmc87

IV LEAVED HERE FOR 25 YEARS (ALL MY LIFE) IT HADNT BEIN USED MUCH ONLY FOR THE BATH,USED THE GAS TO HEAT IT USUALLY AND NEVER GOT NEAR AS HOT (WATER). IT COULD BE THERE LONGER MY DAD IS HERE 35 YEARS ILL FIND OUT 2MORO. ILL GET A NEW ELEMENT. WOULDNT NEED TO DRAIN THAT TANK ATTAL WOULD I ?? I TINK ITS HERE 20 YEARS NOT SURE. IT WAS ON A RADIAL. BUT SOMEONE TAPPED OF IT FOR THE ATTIC CIRCUIT. SO NEW SUPPLY FOR THE ATTIC????

K.Flyer

alanmc87 wrote: »

IV LEAVED HERE FOR 25 YEARS (ALL MY LIFE) IT HADNT BEIN USED MUCH ONLY FOR THE BATH,USED THE GAS TO HEAT IT USUALLY AND NEVER GOT NEAR AS HOT (WATER). IT COULD BE THERE LONGER MY DAD IS HERE 35 YEARS ILL FIND OUT 2MORO. ILL GET A NEW ELEMENT. WOULDNT NEED TO DRAIN THAT TANK ATTAL WOULD I ??

A certain amount of draining down will be required. Its getting it out without damage to the cylinder I'd be worried about.
Remember to measure the height of the cylinder as you will need it to size the immersion element correctly.

jjf1974

i think you should think about running a seperate feed to your fuse board and fit the timer on this feed before the switch,this would make for a much safer job.

K.Flyer

jjf1974 wrote: »

i think you should think about running a seperate feed to your fuse board and fit the timer on this feed before the switch,this would make for a much safer job.

+1
But its not a DIY job, better to get a qualfied electrician to do it for you.

JohnnieK

K.Flyer wrote: »

A certain amount of draining down will be required. Its getting it out without damage to the cylinder I'd be worried about.
Remember to measure the height of the cylinder as you will need it to size the immersion element correctly.

I spent 2.5 hours trying to remove an old immersion from an old cylinder before:mad: A mixture of a blow torch an immersion spanner and a hammer done it in the end. I bet the s h i t e out of the old one on the ground outside after I got it out:D:D

K.Flyer

JohnnieK wrote: »

K.Flyer wrote: »

A certain amount of draining down will be required. Its getting it out without damage to the cylinder I'd be worried about.
Remember to measure the height of the cylinder as you will need it to size the immersion element correctly.

I spent 2.5 hours trying to remove an old immersion from an old cylinder before:mad: A mixture of a blow torch an immersion spanner and a hammer done it in the end. I bet the s h i t e out of the old one on the ground outside after I got it out:D:D

And its always the one where you think you will be out and done in the hour.

meercat

the picture you linked in post 25 shows an old thermostat(black box)
i think its time to replace the complete immersion as others have said

run in a dedicated circuit back to the board(rcd protected but preferably rcbo)
place the clock before the switch
just check the bonding too(it may be simple to run in 10mm earth also)

as others have said , i would also advise a plumber to install immersion into cylinder

Yzf R6

Rewire,it should be on its own circuit protected by RCD.Are you finished your apprenticeship?

alanmc87

just finished my appenticeship mainly done commerical and telecoms work so not done much work with immersions but will have no problem doing it just wanted to find out the best way and why it was overheating bein in and out of work past3 years nearly so still lots to catch up on.
i will rewire it with rcbo and rewire the attic and put the timeclock first. might get a plumber for the element if its to stiff.
the immersion was on its own supply protected by an rcd but when the attic was done (15years ago) someone took a supply for it of the immersion. thats why i put it on a spur coz they just cut the cable and left them exposed in the hot press shocking stuff.

Yzf R6

I see,yeah your best bet is to start from scratch alright and rewire.I understand your nervous about changing the element as was I up until last year and I'm sparking 12 years but if you do it on your own heater there's no pressure and you will gain more experience.Use some WD40,immersion spanner,hammer to tap and also heat up a little and you'll be fine.

alanmc87

cheers m8 for your help

Yzf R6

If you look on YouTube it will talk you through it step by step,you'll do fine and if you crack the seal at least its your own and you can only gain on experience so it win win.Good luck.

meercat

Yzf R6 wrote: »

If you look on YouTube it will talk you through it step by step,you'll do fine and if you crack the seal at least its your own and you can only gain on experience so it win win.Good luck.

i would advise against this
the immersion has been in 20 years
there will be a lot of build up inside the cylinder
it is not the ideal scenario for a first attempt at installing an immersion
i have seen (indeed happened me on occasions)where the cylinder rips when removing immersion and needed to be replaced
also you may struggle getting new immersion back on the threads

i agree you need to experience this to get confident at installing immersions but my advice is to wait until a new install comes along
a plumber will be better for an install like this one(although the cylinder you photographed will be more sturdy than the modern ones)
good luck whatever you do ,but post an update no matter how it goes for you