Should Mick Wallace resign over his VAT 'problem'?

Judgement Day

Given Mick Wallace's latest financial problem - i.e. non payment of VAT do you think he should resign? If so, would you vote for him again if he was to put his name forward in the consequent by-election? I know I would, he's the only worthwhile representative in the county. Opinions.

Aka Ishur

No

He says :

''I didn’t go mad. I had property worth over €70 [million]; I owed about €40 [million] and a banking crisis arrived and my property over about an 18 month period became worth €20 [million], probably less now...''

So I ask you, how much do you have to borrow before you qualify as mad??

Judgement Day

Don't care

There's plenty of other mad bastards in the Dail so that's no reason to resign.

PS I voted NO above but it's not showing!

vicwatson

No

Judgement Day wrote: »

Given Mick Wallace's latest financial problem - i.e. non payment of VAT do you think he should resign? If so, would you vote for him again if he was to put his name forward in the consequent by-election? I know I would, he's the only worthwhile representative in the county. Opinions.

No would not vote for him, anyone that evades tax is in my opinion a criminal, he's admitted he deliberately undeclared VAT.

I don't care whether it's to save jobs or his company or whatever.

We already have enough crooks in politics in this country.

He should lose his job. He is not fit for office after this (some might say he never was).

Judgement Day

Don't care

Easy to take the moral high ground but anyone who has every run a business will know that this sort of thing is what keeps the economy ticking over.

vicwatson

No

Here's an article on it for anyone -



http://www.independent.ie/national-news/tax-cheat-td-mick-wallace-insists-he-is-fit-to-serve-in-dail-eireann-3131500.html

vicwatson

No

Judgement Day wrote: »

Easy to take the moral high ground but anyone who has every run a business will know that this sort of thing is what keeps the economy ticking over.

Nothing to do with moral high ground.

I pay my damn high taxes honestly and openly every year and have never tried to evade tax, I expect that from every citizen of the country and public representatives.

You cannot defend the indefensible I'm afraid. He's a tax fraud.

The key point is that he DELIBERATELY under-declared monies owing to revenue - I.E. you and I by the way.

maddragon

No

Why would he resign. There is almost nothing bad enough that an Irish politician would resign. We had a TD with rent boys in the park. Umpteen tax evading, tax avoiding and downright corrupt TDs including Taoisigh. Drink driving TDs. Philandering TDs etc etc. It seems the only thing that can make an Irish TD resign is a threat to his/her pension and gratuity amounts. They disgust me TBH with very very few exceptions.

Callan57

No

vicwatson wrote: »

Nothing to do with moral high ground.

I pay my damn high taxes honestly and openly every year and have never tried to evade tax, I expect that from every citizen of the country and public representatives.

You cannot defend the indefensible I'm afraid. He's a tax fraud.

The key point is that he DELIBERATELY under-declared monies owing to revenue - I.E. you and I by the way.

It takes some brass neck to continue taking your State salary & no doubt plenty of "expenses" after deliberately defrauding that same state ... Michael Noonan should simply tell him "because you didn't pay your tax there is no money in the kitty to pay your Dail salary"

He deliberately stole from the State .... end of story! :rolleyes:

vicwatson

No

On Lahvline now !

plys

No

I heard on the radio that MJ Wallace Ltd is insolvent, and therefore will never be in a position to pay that 2.1m euro.. So how was an settlement reached in the first place?

I don't know the mechanics of VAT settlements, but do they not require agreement by the principal(s) of a company? If so, does this mean that Wallace knowingly lied.. AGAIN?! and probably while he was a sitting TD..

donalg1

No

vicwatson wrote: »

Here's an article on it for anyone -

Another quote from him in the Irish Times.

“Even though it was illegal, I thought it was the right thing to do.”

So now we can break the law on the premise that we think its the right thing to do!! And lets be honest here he never intended paying it and couldnt care less that he owes it as he himself wont be liable for it since his business is.

This lad then tries to talk about the countries finances when his own are a complete mess and he cant even manage himself and wants to advise others on what to do with their money, he really is having a laugh.

The only reason he announced it now was because he was caught and it was going to be published anyway, if it wasnt going to be published would he have announced it? I hardly think so!!

Couldnt beleive people were silly enough to vote for him in the first place, and cant believe people would even consider doing so again.

Squiggle

No

donalg1 wrote: »

Couldnt beleive people were silly enough to vote for him in the first place, and cant believe people would even consider doing so again.

I didn't vote for him because I didn't think much of his Mission Statement at the time - however he was always going to be elected because of the electorate's disillusionment with Politics and his involvement with Wexford Youths. He has already being convicted and fined 7k for not handing over the pension contributions of employees. Link. He is not fit to hold public office imo but I doubt he'll resign. All that said if the choice for me was to keep my business afloat and withhold VAT until business improved I would probably do it and as we speak I'd say there are many business using VAT as a cash flow tool, but it's a very risky strategy !

vicwatson

No

plys wrote: »

I heard on the radio that MJ Wallace Ltd is insolvent, and therefore will never be in a position to pay that 2.1m euro.. So how was an settlement reached in the first place?

I don't know the mechanics of VAT settlements, but do they not require agreement by the principal(s) of a company? If so, does this mean that Wallace knowingly lied.. AGAIN?! and probably while he was a sitting TD..

It is a limited company so he walks without having to pay a red cent even though he admitted the tax evasion - good aul Irish Company Law.

purplepanda

Don't care

So Mick Wallace will be the only politican who should be held responsible for his actions? :rolleyes: Even though he's not been a politican for long?

I see a very long list of politicans, bankers & civil servant & business people starting with thieving Charles Haughey who's family still profit from his illegal "gains", no one is taking back anything from them & the long line of fidddlers leading up to Bertie Ahern recently :mad: None even pay the tax they owe & none get taken to court & as for prison forget it!!!

At least Wallace invested in community facilties, & jobs & investments whilst his company was thriving, if he has substantial assets let them be seized to pay his tax debts.

As long as those crooks who are at the top of the list are chased first then Wallace can take his punishment later, at the moment the state & media are looking for a scapecoat, developer & later politican, Mick Wallace fits the bill so. :pac:

Plus FG/Lab/FF avoid the flack!!!! :mad:

blindside88

No

He kept the equivilant of 21 years TD's salary out tue public finances and now expects to be paid this salary, I don't care what he's done for Wexford, it's his kind that ruined this great little country

vicwatson

No

blindside88 wrote: »

He kept the equivilant of 21 years TD's salary out tue public finances and now expects to be paid this salary, I don't care what he's done for Wexford, it's his kind that ruined this great little country

He's done nothing bar the Football ground at Ferrycarrig.

expectationlost

No

so did anyone know he owed money to the revenue commission during the election campaign and seriousness of it

was it in the local papers?

allthedoyles

No

His 'vote no to austerity ' posters are still the only ones I see that are not taken down . -
He will probably get a hefty fine for that too.

I remember when he decided to run for the Dail and many people around here were delighted because at last they had someone they could vote for.

This was really protest votes , due to the quality of the other candidates .

Course he should resign , because he does not seem to have any valuable contributions to make to Dail Eireann , and can only describe everything as a 'disaster '

chieftan65

No

ah wake up people for god sake before its too late. course he should resign, he should never have been elected in the first place. he was just a protest vote against ff. he cant speak, and when he does he has no idea what he's saying. watched him on vincent browne lately and all i could do was cringe. folks mick wallace is not a victim, he was a successful businessman who was workning on a very healthy retirement fund and it back fired. this man defrauded the country and what do we do? we reward him with a plush government job and a nice salary. so where's the difference in fingelton and ahearn and harney and the rest of the criminals who ruined our country getting their pensions?? in the immortal words of mick wallace himself during the election campaign "politics is rotten to the core" so it is mick, and looks like you've found your place in this world at last.

Paddy De Plasterer

what a turn off Wallace seems to be,he is a liar, a cheat and should not be in Dail ,over the VAT scam.

bmaxi

No

Of course he should resign, I don't know why we're even having a debate about it. He deliberately and knowingly set out to defraud the state of legitimate tax revenue, money that could have been used to fund hospitals and schools. Anybody who would vote for him now would be condoning that behaviour.

oldyouth

Don't care

I'm no apologist for Mick but I've always said that he is one of the few who has stayed around and openly declared his problems. He has tried to sort out what he can. I'm sure there are many developers still paying fortunes to accountants and lawyers to avoid being brought to book, but Mick always seems to get it in the neck for saying it as it is. We (rightly) want rogues pay the price for this austerity and Mick's love of publicity means he bears the brunt of our frustrations.

chieftan65

No

oldyouth wrote: »

I'm no apologist for Mick but I've always said that he is one of the few who has stayed around and openly declared his problems. He has tried to sort out what he can. I'm sure there are many developers still paying fortunes to accountants and lawyers to avoid being brought to book, but Mick always seems to get it in the neck for saying it as it is. We (rightly) want rogues pay the price for this austerity and Mick's love of publicity means he bears the brunt of our frustrations.

Oh for god sake spare me the bleeding heart pity. He knowingly defrauded the state. end of. it was his decision, nobody forced him to. now he like the ordinary man in the street who does wrong has to pay the price.

jackhammer

No

vicwatson wrote: »

It is a limited company so he walks without having to pay a red cent even though he admitted the tax evasion - good aul Irish Company Law.

Not quite! He's a director of a the company, and he, as director, deliberately under-declared his VAT liability. That's a criminal offence.

I don't see the difference between him and that bloke, Begley whose company didn't pay tax on its garlic imports. He got 6 years for that, and that was a fraud of 1.4 million.

Let's see if Wallace faces the full rigours of the law, as did Begley. I won't hold my breath!

Willam Barker

No

Look Mick was elected on the grounds that he was different and a man of the people (I didn't buy it then or now). He claimed to be tax compliant and not in danger of being made a bankrupt but this we now know is untrue and to add insult to injury he now admits he deliberately lied and now owes us over €2m, this on top of his banking debts and the unpaid pension contributions all combines to give us a very interesting picture.

Mick was I think elected as people expected him to be someone who would stand for something, who would hold the establishment to account and who would hold himself to higher standards. He has let people down, I know my parents voted for him and feel betrayed. Mick should do the decent thing and resign and not bring further shame on Wexford, we don;t need to be compared to the Tipp electorate who voted in Lowery!

Judgement Day

Don't care

Who would you like to replace Mick with, yet another FG/FF/LAB TD not worth a tuppenny damn to the people of Wexford?

donalg1

No

Judgement Day wrote: »

Who would you like to replace Mick with, yet another FG/FF/LAB TD not worth a tuppenny damn to the people of Wexford?

Anyone would be better than that crook. He is an embarrassment and a hypocrite of the highest order.

Cantona's Collars

donalg1 wrote: »

Anyone would be better than that crook. He is an embarrassment and a hypocrite of the highest order.

Those descriptions are classed as qualifications in Dail Eireann.;)

Not apologising for the man but at least it didn't take a tribunal costing countless millions to find out what he did wrong.

vicwatson

No

donalg1 wrote: »

Anyone would be better than that crook. He is an embarrassment and a hypocrite of the highest order.

Not true, not anyone, Wexford Politicians have to be the worst in Ireland for representing their county :mad::mad: They are all cat politicians - from the county/town councillors to the chief whips, ministers and td's, a joke that don't give a toss about Wexford, has always been that way.

vicwatson

No

Judgement Day wrote: »

Who would you like to replace Mick with, yet another FG/FF/LAB TD not worth a tuppenny damn to the people of Wexford?

And don't forget Wexford had an independent - Liam Twomey - went on the independent ticket and got the vote from people that were sick of party politics and what did he go and do - stab his voters in teh back by joining Fine Gael !!

They really do sicken me !

Tzar Chasm

Don't care

bmaxi wrote: »

Of course he should resign, I don't know why we're even having a debate about it. He deliberately and knowingly set out to defraud the state of legitimate tax revenue, money that could have been used to fund hospitals and schools. Anybody who would vote for him now would be condoning that behaviour.

Vincent brown raised an interesting point to the smarmy fg td tonight, fg were caught committing systematic tax fraud for 9 years in the 90's so its a bit hypocritical of them to bleat on about this

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fear-of-expos-forced-noonans-tax-admission-508270.html

Cedrus

I think it's important to note that it was VAT Returns that were falsified, IMO this is far worse than other tax frauds.

A trader is entitled to use turnover cash to run their business, balance payments to suppliers, staff, rent etc and eventually when/if they make a profit they pay tax on the profit. Rates and the taxes/contributions on wages and pensions have to be paid but these can be variable and mistakes could be made.

But VAT has the taxmans name on it from the moment it appears on an invoice, a reconciliation between VAT paid and VAT charged has to be made but the cash NEVER belongs to the business.

vicwatson

No

Cedrus wrote: »

I think it's important to note that it was VAT Returns that were falsified, IMO this is far worse than other tax frauds.

A trader is entitled to use turnover cash to run their business, balance payments to suppliers, staff, rent etc and eventually when/if they make a profit they pay tax on the profit. Rates and the taxes/contributions on wages and pensions have to be paid but these can be variable and mistakes could be made.

But VAT has the taxmans name on it from the moment it appears on an invoice, a reconciliation between VAT paid and VAT charged has to be made but the cash NEVER belongs to the business.

And MJ Wallace Ltd was the first business to use the cash this way right?:rolleyes:

Cedrus

vicwatson wrote: »

And MJ Wallace Ltd was the first business to use the cash this way right?:rolleyes:

I never mentioned the company nor suggested that they were first to do anything. I said VAT fraud is more serious than other tax frauds, and it's a lot harder to do accidentally.

Judgement Day

Don't care

Cedrus wrote: »

I never mentioned the company nor suggested that they were first to do anything. I said VAT fraud is more serious than other tax frauds, and it's a lot harder to do accidentally.

It may have escaped your attention, but the economy is in free fall right now and everybody (with a brain) is doing whatever it takes to survive. I suspect that many in Mick Wallace's position would have done exactly what he did - I know I would, and have done, but not with VAT as it wasn't an option.

bruschi

Judgement Day wrote: »

Who would you like to replace Mick with, yet another FG/FF/LAB TD not worth a tuppenny damn to the people of Wexford?

as I had feared in his election, what exactly has Wallace done for the people of Wexford since his election? Yes, he does great work for the footballing community and set up a good grounds in Ferrycarrig. But since election, what has brought to Wexford? Has he put forward any job stimulous packages for the area? Other than have meetings for voting no and not paying household charges, has anything happened with his help for communities?

He may well have done things, but I cant say I have heard anything about it. His priorites when he was being elected was changing the system and going after the men at the top. Saying how he wasnt there to fix potholes for local roads. Thats all well and good, and yes, the ridiculous nature of voting for someone just because they will sort something out on a personal level. But there is also a duty to respond to your constituency and help the people. Wexford has one of the worst unemployment rates in Ireland. There is damn all happening in it, and to prioritise going for the big things about economy etc I thought at the time was wrong, and still think that way.

jpb1974

what exactly has Wallace done for the people of Wexford since his election?

You could ask the same question of Howlin, Kehoe, Browne etc..

Judgement Day

Don't care

jpb1974 wrote: »

You could ask the same question of Howlin, Kehoe, Browne etc..

Even more so since they are in the Dail for years and Mick is only feeling his way.

donalg1

No

Judgement Day wrote: »

It may have escaped your attention, but the economy is in free fall right now and everybody (with a brain) is doing whatever it takes to survive. I suspect that many in Mick Wallace's position would have done exactly what he did - I know I would, and have done, but not with VAT as it wasn't an option.

Just because more people would do it or are doing it doesnt make it right thought does it. Saw on Vincent Browne last night that the Independent are running a story today about how when Micks business was failing he doubled his salary and his sons salary. Explain why he would do this if he was actually trying to protect the jobs of his workers as he so claims?

I think he was looking out for number 1 as he always has done.

donalg1

No

Judgement Day wrote: »

Even more so since they are in the Dail for years and Mick is only feeling his way.

But what has he actually done for the Wexford?

foxcoverteddy

I am not one of his flock, so what, the question relates not only to Mick but what about the rest of the TD's, are they all honest and upstanding citizens?
If you make Mick resign then all the rest must go at the same time, of course he was stupid beyond belief, he got caught, the other's must thank their lucky star's or will their time come.
We voted Mr Kenny to sort the sorry sordid mess out, has he?
Don't pick on one person, the people of Wexford are lucky we have happy Phil to live with, he is still there.

donalg1

No

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

I am not one of his flock, so what, the question relates not only to Mick but what about the rest of the TD's, are they all honest and upstanding citizens?
If you make Mick resign then all the rest must go at the same time, of course he was stupid beyond belief, he got caught, the other's must thank their lucky star's or will their time come.
We voted Mr Kenny to sort the sorry sordid mess out, has he?
Don't pick on one person, the people of Wexford are lucky we have happy Phil to live with, he is still there.

Its not picking on one person, its asking the question should Mick resign. When other Politicians get caught doing the same thing we will discuss that then too.

Love the way all the pro Mick Heads are saying "leave him alone will ya, its not fair to pick on him", he willingly broke the law and should have to face some sort of consequences for doing so. Just because others may or may not have done this also does not excuse what he has done.

theforum

Hes an absolute disgrace. He lied to the people of Wexford and he should resign his Dail seat immediately. The taxpayer should not have to fork out money for his wages to keep him in the lifestyle to which he is accustomed. For shame Mick!

foxcoverteddy

Of course you are right, no one is saying about fairness, lets do all of them at the same time, if guilty make them resign, and lets see some legal action, but not just one man there are so many I believe.
Lets face it are we checking MEP's, Government needs an overhaul. Where is Kenny or is it the end of the road for him.

jpb1974

He should be forced to cut his hair, don a suit, shirt & tie and paraded around in public.

Tzar Chasm

Don't care

foxcoverteddy wrote: »

Of course you are right, no one is saying about fairness, lets do all of them at the same time, if guilty make them resign, and lets see some legal action, but not just one man there are so many I believe.
Lets face it are we checking MEP's, Government needs an overhaul. Where is Kenny or is it the end of the road for him.

See hats a fair stance, let's see lowry booted too, let's have Willie o dee jailed for perjury, how about noonan being booted for his involvement in the tax dodge I outlined above, but a bit closer to home how about Paul keoghs undeclared property issue from earlier this year?

I'd have no problem with making them stand down from the dail for cheating, but i'd like to see it applied to all the cheats not just Wallace otherwise its not fair process its a witchhunt.

BTW i'd still reelect Wallace, I campaigned for the man knowing full well he had skeletons hidden

bmaxi

No

Tzar Chasm wrote: »

Vincent brown raised an interesting point to the smarmy fg td tonight, fg were caught committing systematic tax fraud for 9 years in the 90's so its a bit hypocritical of them to bleat on about this

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/fear-of-expos-forced-noonans-tax-admission-508270.html

That's not really the point, the question asked was whether Mick Wallace should resign and I believe he should.
The problem is, only the people of Wexford can force Wallace to resign. Over the years we have had several crooked politicians exposed and their electorate duly re-elected them, IMO the real shame in those cases falls on the electorate, if you're happy enough to elect a crook to the Dail then don't be surprised if it ends up full of crooks.

carm

No

jackhammer wrote: »

I don't see the difference between him and that bloke, Begley whose company didn't pay tax on its garlic imports. He got 6 years for that, and that was a fraud of 1.4 million.

Let's see if Wallace faces the full rigours of the law, as did Begley. I won't hold my breath!

This is what I'd like to know. What exactly is the difference between Begley's garlic tax case and Wallace's? If nothing happens to Wallace by way of bringing him to court, will Begley have a case to get his sentence quashed/reduced?

I would see this as complete unfairness if Wallace just lost his cushy job (or didn't as the case may be) and Begley remained in prison.

Drummerboy08

Should Mick resign? Given that he deliberately avoiding paying an element of his VAT bill, and given that this is an offence, then yes he should.

It's the right thing for him to do, just like avoiding the VAT bill in the first place was (I genuinely believe this).

However, if Mick is made to resign for this, then unfortunately anyone else in the Dail, or Senate who were involved in unsavory issues should also follow.

Lets face the facts here folks, there are alot of skeletons hiding in Leinster house, this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and won't be the last.

donalg1

No

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Should Mick resign? Given that he deliberately avoiding paying an element of his VAT bill, and given that this is an offence, then yes he should.

It's the right thing for him to do, just like avoiding the VAT bill in the first place was (I genuinely believe this).

However, if Mick is made to resign for this, then unfortunately anyone else in the Dail, or Senate who were involved in unsavory issues should also follow.

Lets face the facts here folks, there are alot of skeletons hiding in Leinster house, this isn't the first time something like this has happened, and won't be the last.

It isnt the first time and wont be the last as you rightly say so maybe now is the time a precendence was set which may deter others in future from doing something similiar.