Clamping Appeal (Dublin Street Parking or Payzone)

The Wexican

Feel free to move if in the wrong forum.

I have a Parking Tag on my car, and the other morning parked twice in town and sent my text as normal. Neither time did I recieve a confirmation text, however as this previously happened before I thought no more of it

Upon returning to my car the second time my car had been clamped, with in the timeframe I thought I had paid my parking for. I rang to get my clamped removed, and when I complained, was told it wasn't their issue, and to contact Payzone. When I contacted Payzone I was told they had no record of either text that morning and was therefore illeagally parked, and since I didn't receive a confirmation text I should have contacted another number. I feel that I had completed my side of the deal, and that it is not possible to keep an eye on my phone at all times to check for texts. That morning in particular I was at an appointment with my wife, where the signs all around stated mobile phones should be turned off. The second time I was at a client meeting and personally I feel it is unprofessional to have a mobile out whilst in a meeting. I have checked with my phone provider and I have been charged for both texts that morning, so they were definitely sent.

I appealed to Dublin Street Parking Services (DSPS) pretty much outling the above, and received my rejection yesterday. However they state that the Parking Tag System is not operated by DSPS but by Payzone, I should need to contact them directly with my complaint.

My question is where to know? Personally I feel that as Payzone provide this service under contract to DSPS, that DSPS are ultimately responsible, and that DSPS would have an audit undertaken into the Payzone system to ensure it is fit for purpose, which from their failure to confirm the receipt of two texts in the morning would indicate to me it is not.

I will appeal this again and then maybe try Payzone if unsuccesful. The clamping fee is not the issue, it really is the principal of the matter, as I feel in this case I have done nothing wrong.

If unsuccesful with DSPS or Payzone, or there any other avenues open to me.

Thanks for reading apologies if the points I'm trying to make aren't overly clear.

Marcusm

Why would you walk away from the car before you received the confirmation text?

The Wexican

Appointment at 8.30, text sent at 8.33. So I didn't quite have time to be hanging around.

Marcusm

Guess you'll be paying the fine and reading the small print on the Payzone contract to see where you stand. I use these systems 20 or more times per week and if I don't get a text back,I would assume I should use the meter. It's usually not worth taking the hit on a ticket or clamp.

BrianD

You next level of appeal is to the independent appeals officer.

However, would be worthwhile to lodge a complaint with Payzone. They are required to operate a reliable and robust service. They should have logs available.

Having said that, not having received the confirmation and having the option to pay by machine may go against you.

The Wexican

I think that what my argument is that the Payzone system is not fit for purpose. I would accept one text not getting through , but two on the one morning would seem to be me it was a systems problem that morning.

Procrastastudy

Payzone would argue that they don't have 100% up time (probably 99.9%) and that people should leave a bit of time for apointments

coylemj

I never use text, it's much easier to just phone, press a couple of buttons and hear the automated voice tell you when it expires, that's my confirmation and I don't have to pay for a confirmation text.

Store the number under 'Mpark', you may or may not have noticed that 'M', 'P' and 'A' are the first letters on buttons 6, 7 and 2 respectively so retrieving the number is fast and you usually get through straight away. If you know the numbers corresponding to the different colour zones (1 for yellow, 2 for red etc.), you can be done in a matter of seconds.

The number by the way is 01 244 9999.

BrianD

I suspect that you wouldn't have much joy with an appeal. They seem to have boxed off your scenario with the T&C's and FAQ's below.

However, I would raise this apparent outage with both Dublin City Council and Payzone.

FAQ wrote:

Q: What if I don't get a SMS receipt after I parked by text?
A: If you don't get a receipt your parking has not been confirmed and you are liable to be clamped. You should call 01 244 99 99 to confirm that you have a current valid parking transaction in operation

T&Cs wrote:

18. Service unavailability
If Parking Tag experiences any interruption which temporarily prohibits a User from accessing the service, it remains the responsibility of the User to pay for parking using existing Pay and Display meter system.

19.6 SMS Receipts/Reminders: If the text message cannot be delivered to the recipient’s phone, it is queued by the cellular service for later retry. When it is retried, how often, and for how long, all depend on the cellular service i.e. your mobile network. So, even if the recipient loses signal only for a few seconds, that could cause a text message to be undeliverable and queued, and not delivered until some unspecified time in the future. Therefore it is the users responsibility to ensure the vehicle is legally parked in the parking facility. If the user is in doubt they may call 01 244 9999 to check if there is a valid parking ticket for the vehicle.

19.7 Text messages are not always guaranteed to be delivered: Text messaging is a “store and forward” technology that depends on various cellular carriers and their networks. As such, individual messages are not guaranteed to arrive at their destinations and can also be delayed.

RangeR

coylemj wrote: »

I never use text, it's much easier to just phone, press a couple of buttons and hear the automated voice tell you when it expires, that's my confirmation and I don't have to pay for a confirmation text.

Store the number under 'Mpark', you may or may not have noticed that 'M', 'P' and 'A' are the first letters on buttons 6, 7 and 2 respectively so retrieving the number is fast and you usually get through straight away. If you know the numbers corresponding to the different colour zones (1 for yellow, 2 for red etc.), you can be done in a matter of seconds.

The number by the way is 01 244 9999.

I wrote that system

coylemj

RangeR wrote: »

I wrote that system

Well here's some customer feedback - why doesn't it allow you to add on time commencing at the expiration of what's been paid for if it hasn't yet expired?

If you've paid up to (say) 1:30 and at 1:25 you phone and ask for 30 minutes, the new time starts immediately instead of at the end of the time already paid for.

RangeR

coylemj wrote: »

Well here's some customer feedback - why doesn't it allow you to add on time commencing at the expiration of what's been paid for if it hasn't yet expired?

If you've paid up to (say) 1:30 and at 1:25 you phone and ask for 30 minutes, the new time starts immediately instead of at the end of the time already paid for.

1. I don't work there anymore.
2. It was written to spec. Actually, well above and beyond spec. With somethings we didn't have any wriggle room.

EDIT : Also wrote the M50 payments but that was canned after a year or two because 99% of customers only used it to check balance rather than make a payment

BrianD

coylemj wrote: »

Well here's some customer feedback - why doesn't it allow you to add on time commencing at the expiration of what's been paid for if it hasn't yet expired?

If you've paid up to (say) 1:30 and at 1:25 you phone and ask for 30 minutes, the new time starts immediately instead of at the end of the time already paid for.

That would allow you to retrospectively pay for parking and you can predict how it would be used!!

BornToKill

BrianD wrote: »

That would allow you to retrospectively pay for parking and you can predict how it would be used!!

It's prospective surely?

coylemj

BrianD wrote: »

That would allow you to retrospectively pay for parking and you can predict how it would be used!!

No it wouldn't.

What I'm saying is that I've paid for up to 1:30 but at 1:25 I see a clamper van in the area so in a panic, I ring to add on 30 minutes. When I ring and press the keys on my phone to pay for 30 minutes, that 30 minutes starts at 1:25 instead of 1:30 so for a period of 5 minutes I've paid twice.

Where's the retrospective payment?

BrianD

coylemj wrote: »

No it wouldn't.

What I'm saying is that I've paid for up to 1:30 but at 1:25 I see a clamper van in the area so in a panic, I ring to add on 30 minutes. When I ring and press the keys on my phone to pay for 30 minutes, that 30 minutes starts at 1:25 instead of 1:30 so for a period of 5 minutes I've paid twice.

Where's the retrospective payment?

I may have misinterpreted your original post.

However, why would you want to pay twice from any time? That doesn't make sense. It would have to apply to every situation that you top up.

Not only does not make sense it's the stuff that Joe Duffy thrives on. Payzone are charging me twice for parking ...

coylemj

BrianD wrote: »

I may have misinterpreted your original post.

However, why would you want to pay twice from any time? That doesn't make sense. It would have to apply to every situation that you top up.

Let me try - for a third time - to explain a simple situation which I'm sure happens every day of the week.

I'm meeting a friend in town for lunch, I pay for my parking tag by phoning 01 244 9999, the automated voice says I am paid up to 1:30 p.m. At 1:25 p.m. I look out the window and see a clamper van in the neighbourhood. Not being certain that my watch is showing the correct time (it could be slow and my time has expired), in a panic I call and pay for 30 minutes parking.

That new 30 minutes isn't added on to the time already paid for, it commences immediately and effectively cancels any remaining unexpired time already paid for. In that scenario, if my watch was showing the correct time, I have paid twice for the period from 1:25 to 1:30.

Get it now?

RangeR who says he wrote the s/w hasn't contradicted me. I find it somewhat bizarre that he pressed the 'Thank You' button for your post claiming that if what I'm saying is true, it would allow to you retrospectively pay for parking which he must know is not the case.

RangeR

coylemj wrote: »

RangeR who says he wrote the s/w hasn't contradicted me.

I have not contradicted you.

There is little I can say about the specifics of the project. Although I no longer work for the company I was in, I'm still under NDA.

Suffice it to say, I pointed out issues to the project leaders [not in my company but you can guess who] at the time. Some were heeded, some were not.

RangeR

coylemj wrote: »

I find it somewhat bizarre that he pressed the 'Thank You' button for your post claiming that if what I'm saying is true, it would allow to you retrospectively pay for parking which he must know is not the case.

Depending on implementation, it's possible. Anyway, moot point. It's not implemented that way.

coylemj

RangeR wrote: »

I have not contradicted you.

+1 That's what I told BrianD above.

RangeR wrote: »

There is little I can say about the specifics of the project. Although I no longer work for the company I was in, I'm still under NDA.

Suffice it to say, I pointed out issues to the project leaders [not in my company but you can guess who] at the time. Some were heeded, some were not.

I appreciate you are under contractual constraints but I think we can all read between the lines.

coylemj

RangeR wrote: »

Depending on implementation, it's possible. Anyway, moot point. It's not implemented that way.

The customer doesn't dictate when the time starts, it always starts immediately so retrospection is not possible. What is 'possible' in theory is neither here nor there.

BrianD

coylemj wrote: »

Let me try - for a third time - to explain a simple situation which I'm sure happens every day of the week.

I'm meeting a friend in town for lunch, I pay for my parking tag by phoning 01 244 9999, the automated voice says I am paid up to 1:30 p.m. At 1:25 p.m. I look out the window and see a clamper van in the neighbourhood. Not being certain that my watch is showing the correct time (it could be slow and my time has expired), in a panic I call and pay for 30 minutes parking.

That new 30 minutes isn't added on to the time already paid for, it commences immediately and effectively cancels any remaining unexpired time already paid for. In that scenario, if my watch was showing the correct time, I have paid twice for the period from 1:25 to 1:30.

Get it now?

I have to admit I'm struggling with this logic. What if your watch is fast or stopped? At the heel of the hunt, it doesn't matter what time your watch shows, it's what time it is in Dublin Street Parking land.

The system does one of two things - pays for a period of parking starting immediately or extends an current valid parking time by an amount of time that's allowed. There is no possible reason as to why you would or should pay for parking twice. I have never been in one of these simple situations you mention.

RangeR who says he wrote the s/w hasn't contradicted me. I find it somewhat bizarre that he pressed the 'Thank You' button for your post claiming that if what I'm saying is true, it would allow to you retrospectively pay for parking which he must know is not the case.

I have already stated I misread your post.

Anyway, the OP is still pretty much goosed. He was never on anyones clock to start with.

Our man in Havana

independent appeals officer.

LOL!

MichellePT

The Wexican wrote: »

Feel free to move if in the wrong forum.

I have a Parking Tag on my car, and the other morning parked twice in town and sent my text as normal. Neither time did I recieve a confirmation text, however as this previously happened before I thought no more of it

Upon returning to my car the second time my car had been clamped, with in the timeframe I thought I had paid my parking for. I rang to get my clamped removed, and when I complained, was told it wasn't their issue, and to contact Payzone. When I contacted Payzone I was told they had no record of either text that morning and was therefore illeagally parked, and since I didn't receive a confirmation text I should have contacted another number. I feel that I had completed my side of the deal, and that it is not possible to keep an eye on my phone at all times to check for texts. That morning in particular I was at an appointment with my wife, where the signs all around stated mobile phones should be turned off. The second time I was at a client meeting and personally I feel it is unprofessional to have a mobile out whilst in a meeting. I have checked with my phone provider and I have been charged for both texts that morning, so they were definitely sent.

I appealed to Dublin Street Parking Services (DSPS) pretty much outling the above, and received my rejection yesterday. However they state that the Parking Tag System is not operated by DSPS but by Payzone, I should need to contact them directly with my complaint.

My question is where to know? Personally I feel that as Payzone provide this service under contract to DSPS, that DSPS are ultimately responsible, and that DSPS would have an audit undertaken into the Payzone system to ensure it is fit for purpose, which from their failure to confirm the receipt of two texts in the morning would indicate to me it is not.

I will appeal this again and then maybe try Payzone if unsuccesful. The clamping fee is not the issue, it really is the principal of the matter, as I feel in this case I have done nothing wrong.

If unsuccesful with DSPS or Payzone, or there any other avenues open to me.

Thanks for reading apologies if the points I'm trying to make aren't overly clear.

Good Morning,

I am an employee of Payzone and work on the Parking Tag product.

I apologise that you had an issue with the Parking Tag system and in turn did not know who to contact to try and resolve.

If you could please pm me your details, I will take a look at this and give you a call on Monday.

Thanks,
M

BrianD

Fair play for taking the initiative!

Victor

MichellePT wrote: »

Good Morning,

I am an employee of Payzone and work on the Parking Tag product.

I apologise that you had an issue with the Parking Tag system and in turn did not know who to contact to try and resolve.

If you could please pm me your details, I will take a look at this and give you a call on Monday.

Thanks,
M

You realise you sound like a scammer?

Our man in Havana wrote: »

independent appeals officer.

LOL!

That is unfair.

MichellePT

Victor wrote: »

MichellePT wrote: »

Good Morning,

I am an employee of Payzone and work on the Parking Tag product.

I apologise that you had an issue with the Parking Tag system and in turn did not know who to contact to try and resolve.

If you could please pm me your details, I will take a look at this and give you a call on Monday.

Thanks,
M

You realise you sound like a scammer?

Our man in Havana wrote: »

independent appeals officer.

LOL!

That is unfair.

Alternatively a call can be made to our head office 01 2076000 and ask for Michelle.

Thanks!
M

coylemj

BrianD wrote: »

The system does one of two things - pays for a period of parking starting immediately or extends an current valid parking time by an amount of time that's allowed. There is no possible reason as to why you would or should pay for parking twice. I have never been in one of these simple situations you mention.

You have no idea what you're talking about. RangeR who wrote the system has read my posts and agrees that that that is the way the system works - as I described it.

For a fourth and last time....

You cannot phone and 'extend' beyond the time already paid for i.e. pay for 30 minutes and have it start at the end of time already paid for. Every time you call and pay, the time starts immediately with no reference to time already paid for and which has not yet expired so if there is time remaining, you lose it.

It hasn't been stated explicitly but it looks to me like this issue has been highlighted and the operating company has chosen to live with it - and the extra revenue it generates because overlap time is free money for them.

RangeR

coylemj wrote: »

You have no idea what you're talking about. RangeR who wrote the system has read my posts and agrees that that that is the way the system works - as I described it.

I'm going to caveat every "FACT" that I say on this. I wrote ParkingTag many years ago. I'm not claiming that I can remember every facet or every part of the project.

It also wasn't the only project I worked on [Payzone and many more]

teddansonswig

another point that would improve the system

if i could pay for tomorrow morning

Victor

teddansonswig wrote: »

another point that would improve the system

if i could pay for tomorrow morning

You can.

At the end of the pay-parking period on a given day, you can pay for a 1-3 hour period of parking on the next day.

teddansonswig

i think your talking about the cash machines, not the phone 'parking tag' service which i am referring to ??

coylemj

teddansonswig wrote: »

i think your talking about the cash machines, not the phone 'parking tag' service which i am referring to ??

Correct.

Victor, the parking tag system can't tell if you're parking in a 24 hour pay zone or a place where paid parking is required only up to 7 p.m. so when you phone to pay, that period starts immediately meaning that you can't pay in advance for tomorrow morning.