All Ireland Hurling Qualifiers

KevIRL

Didnt notice a thread for this.

Prelim phase
Wexford v Westmeath
Limerick v Laois

1st phase
Carlow v Limerick/Laois
Antrim v Wexford/Westmeath

2nd phase
Leinster Semi final loser v Munster Semi final loser
Munster Semi final loser v Leinster semi final loser

3rd phase
Phase 1 winner v Phase 2 winner
Phase 2 winner v Phase 1 winner

There is so much wrong with this, the mind boggles
- Westmeath and Laois both won premlinary Leinster championship ties, yet their 'reward' after losing a Leinster Quarter final is to enter the qualifiers at a later stage than the teams they beat in the Leinster preliminary round (Carlow and Antrim)
- The Leinster and Munster semi final losers both face a potentially trickier route to phase 3 of the qualifiers (albeit with a game less) than the teams knocked out in the Leinster Quarter Finals. For example should Cork lose to Tipp in the Munster semi final, they could very concievably play Dublin in phase 2 of the qualifiers, a very tough tie, while the team they beat in the Munster Quarter Final (Limerick) would need to beat Westmeath and Carlow to get phase 3. No disrespect meant to either of these 2 teams but a much easier route

Surely there is a fairer way of doing this. Some sort of open draw perhaps?

Clareman

Majorily flawed system alright, it's better to lose earlier in the championship. What was wrong with the groups system? At least teams got games (even if there were some dead rubbers)

purplepanda

Was this an open draw & were teams kept apart? Maybe Wexford & Limerick seeded?

One positive is that 2 of the exited Leinster championship teams get the chance to take on Limerick & Wexford first, instead of playing each other first & Wexford / Limerick waiting for the winners. Then the Antrim & Carlow get a chance to take on the winners.


Saturday, June 23
Preliminary Round
Wexford v Westmeath
Limerick v Laois
Saturday, June 30
Round 1
Limerick/Laois v Antrim
Wexford/Westmeath v Carlow

PTH2009

can see Wexford and Limerick getting through to phase 3.

I can see Cork and Dublin winning in phase 2 (Dublin beating Waterford and Cork beating Offaly).

Dublin and Cork will win in phase 3.

Clare and Galway will finish runners up in Munster and Leinster.

Clare will beat Dublin and Cork will beat Galway in the Quarter Finals.

Kilkenny will beat Clare and Cork will beat Tipperary in the Semi Finals.

Kilkenny to beat Cork in the final.

(BTW im estamating the draws in the Phase 3 and beyond)

Fireball07

Fairly flawed but it would seem to favour Limerick this year... I quite liked the groups tbh (although I'm not sure the number of teams in the Championship now would fit the old system)


You'd think Wexford and Limerick should have enough quality to get through tbh.

And I'd give Limerick a reasonable chance of beating any of the losing semi-finalists too. They won't fear Offaly/Dublin/Galway...and Cork/Clare/Waterford, I reckon they could beat any of those too. Cork are probably the team I'd least like to play tbh.


But with Hannon available from the start, and maybe Hickey too, plus the experience of the Tipp match behind them, we won't fear anyone.

Henno30

Could be an interesting series of games before the semi-finals arrive. A lot of good teams could end up in that final round of the qualifiers. Time will tell but there seems to be an even enough standard across teams like Cork, Galway, Waterford, Clare, and Limerick at the moment, and three of those five will probably be in that final qualifier round.

The phase 2 qualifier itself promises to be good, with two of Dublin, Kilkenny, Tipp, and Cork in the mix. Hard to know where Waterford, Clare, and indeed Offaly are just yet but they could make an impact there too.

If I had to pick it now I would very tentatively pick Cork, Dublin, Offaly, and Waterford as the Phase 2 sides but I wouldn't be that surprised if some or all of those were wrong. Cork and Dublin seem to be the best teams in the country behind KK and Tipp right now and they should end up in the semis. I would fancy the Dubs against anyone except KK and I think they stand a great chance of making the final this year.

Let's hope there are some surprises anyway. Been a bit too predictable for the last few years.

dastardly00

I can't find anything about whether the qualifier draw was seeded or if it was an open draw, either on GAA.ie or on the websites of the national newspapers.
It seems absolutely crazy that Carlow and Antrim are getting a bye into the next round even though they lost to Laois and Westmeath respectively earlier in the championship.
If it was an open draw then I suppose that is just the luck of the draw.

In relation to the Phase 2/Phase 3 rounds, that seems a bit odd. For example, Wexford losing to Offaly could work out more favourably for Wexford in terms of how far they go in the championship. Wexford should beat Westmeath, and then Antrim and they would be in Phase 3. Whereas Offaly have a very tough match against Galway and they will be underdogs. If they lose that, then they will be against either Tipp/Cork/Waterford/Clare. All of whom would be favourites to beat Offaly. If Offaly end up beating the Munster semi-final loser, then they will only be at the same stage as Wexford.

Stevecw

KevIRL wrote: »

Didnt notice a thread for this.

Prelim phase
Wexford v Westmeath
Limerick v Laois

1st phase
Carlow v Limerick/Laois
Antrim v Wexford/Westmeath

2nd phase
Leinster Semi final loser v Munster Semi final loser
Munster Semi final loser v Leinster semi final loser

3rd phase
Phase 1 winner v Phase 2 winner
Phase 2 winner v Phase 1 winner

There is so much wrong with this, the mind boggles
- Westmeath and Laois both won premlinary Leinster championship ties, yet their 'reward' after losing a Leinster Quarter final is to enter the qualifiers at a later stage than the teams they beat in the Leinster preliminary round (Carlow and Antrim)
- The Leinster and Munster semi final losers both face a potentially trickier route to phase 3 of the qualifiers (albeit with a game less) than the teams knocked out in the Leinster Quarter Finals. For example should Cork lose to Tipp in the Munster semi final, they could very concievably play Dublin in phase 2 of the qualifiers, a very tough tie, while the team they beat in the Munster Quarter Final (Limerick) would need to beat Westmeath and Carlow to get phase 3. No disrespect meant to either of these 2 teams but a much easier route

Surely there is a fairer way of doing this. Some sort of open draw perhaps?

1st phase is actually

Wexford/Westmeath v Carlow
Limerick/Laois v Antrim

Agree its kinda mad that Carlow and Antrim get to enter the qualifiers after the teams who beat them in Leinster are probably already knocked out.

KevIRL

Phase 2 draw

Clare v Dublin
cork v offaly

Munster teams both at home

Clareman

Home draw for Clare is about all we could ask for, Dublin will be hurting after the last day but you'd hope we'll be good enough at home.

dcr22B

Clareman wrote: »

Home draw for Clare is about all we could ask for, Dublin will be hurting after the last day but you'd hope we'll be good enough at home.

No disrespect to Clare but it's a better draw for us than getting Cork in the Pairc.

That said, it's a mouthwatering tie and as most people up here think it's Daly's last year in charge, the last thing he'll want is to be knocked out in his own backyard.

We'll be majorly wound up for it but that was probably part of our problem against KK on Saturday.

It's a hard one to call but considering we're away from home and with only 1 competitive win in 12 months, Clare would be getting my nod at this moment in time.

Clareman

Both Leinster teams would have wanted Clare, like both Munster teams would want Offaly, home draw does make a big difference imvho, especially as we're playing the football final the day after

washman3

Any dates for Phase 2 and Phase 3 games. Phase 1 is next Saturday...

dcr22B

washman3 wrote: »

Any dates for Phase 2 and Phase 3 games. Phase 1 is next Saturday...

Phase 2 games will be Saturday July 7th

dastardly00

In Phase 1, you would expect Limerick to beat Antrim, and Wexford to beat Carlow (no disrespect to Antrim and Carlow).

I think Cork should beat Offaly imo. Clare vs Dublin is a very tough one to call.

Is it an open draw then for Phase 3?
Could the situation occur where Offaly beat Cork and then could play Wexford again?

liammur

dastardly00 wrote: »

In Phase 1, you would expect Limerick to beat Antrim, and Wexford to beat Carlow (no disrespect to Antrim and Carlow).

I think Cork should beat Offaly imo. Clare vs Dublin is a very tough one to call.

Is it an open draw then for Phase 3?
Could the situation occur where Offaly beat Cork and then could play Wexford again?

I'd be expecting:
Cork to beat Offaly by 10+ points
Clare to beat Dub by 6+ points
LK to beat Antrim by 10+ points
Wx to beat Carlow by 3+ points.

I don't think LK could play Cork again, but not sure on that.

hans aus dtschl

Clare and Dublin in Ennis will be a good game hopefully.

Clare are very much up and coming and Dublin need to prove their worth. Looking forward to it.

aidan24326

Clare to beat Dublin by 6+ ? Really? This isn't a great Clare team and Dublin will want to redeem themselves after Saturday's collapse. Dublin are probably the better team if they show up, though home advantage is probably worth 3 or 4 points to Clare. I think this one will be close.

hans aus dtschl

liammur wrote: »

I'd be expecting:
Cork to beat Offaly by 10+ points
Clare to beat Dub by 6+ points
LK to beat Antrim by 10+ points
Wx to beat Carlow by 3+ points.

I don't think LK could play Cork again, but not sure on that.

Not sure about your margins there, Cork/Offaly will be closer and Clare Dublin will be very close I think.

Limerick and Cork have yet to play this year, so would potentially meet, from that perspective.

Mike O' Brien

is the Clare V Dub Game on tv?

PTH2009

Phase 1 (Sat 30 June)

Wexford vs Carlow- Wexford will win it very handy
Limerick vs Antrim- Limerick will hammer them, Antrim with chance of management will be very unorganised and will just want to be out of the championship.

Phase 2 (Sat 7 July)

Cork vs Offaly- Cork will win it but Offaly will put up one hell of a fight.
Clare vs Dublin- This will be a very close game but i think Clare will scrape through it. Id expect the game to be firey.

Phase 3 (Sat 14 July) will prob be a double header in Thurles

If the draw is

Cork vs Wexford
Clare vs Limerick

i think Cork will win handy and Clare vs Limerick could go either way but Clare would have more hunger.

If the draw is

Cork vs Limerick
Clare vs Wexford

Cork will be able for Limerick but it will be an intresting game. Clare are a much better team than Wexford and should win handy.

dcr22B

liammur wrote: »

Clare to beat Dub by 6+ points

Wow, can I have what you're smoking?

dcr22B

Mike O' Brien wrote: »

is the Clare V Dub Game on tv?

I think it will be the live game as it will be seen as the bigger draw than Cork v Offaly.

RTE due to show a match that night anyway.

liammur

aidan24326 wrote: »

Clare to beat Dublin by 6+ ? Really? This isn't a great Clare team and Dublin will want to redeem themselves after Saturday's collapse. Dublin are probably the better team if they show up, though home advantage is probably worth 3 or 4 points to Clare. I think this one will be close.

Clare are difficult to beat at home, and I think dublin are spent. Cork have to be these of all the teams there. Hopefully we'll get some close games tho.

dcr22B

liammur wrote: »

Clare are difficult to beat at home, and I think dublin are spent

I think you're jumping the gun on Dublin here (yes, I am naturally biased).

That said, Daly has to make a lot of changes and hope that they are tuned it right from the get go as Clare will be looking to get a fast start to ramp up the pressure on the Dubs.

liammur

dcr22B wrote: »

I think you're jumping the gun on Dublin here (yes, I am naturally biased).

That said, Daly has to make a lot of changes and hope that they are tuned it right from the get go as Clare will be looking to get a fast start to ramp up the pressure on the Dubs.

Well hopefully I'm wrong, but I'd have Clare down to have this 1 over at half time. And Clare aren't really that strong.

I think the relegation play off V Galway showed where Dublin are.

dcr22B

I'd be more looking at out league games against Cork, Tipp and KK to reflect on where we should be.

Only for Barry Kelly's officiating, we'd still be in NHL1 and going into the championship with confidence of knowing we would be top division next year.

Biggest 2 weeks for Dublin hurling in recent memory. Go to Clare and win, who knows how far we'll go but lose and it will be the end of Daly and the start of some serious head scratching for all involved.

liammur

dcr22B wrote: »

I'd be more looking at out league games against Cork, Tipp and KK to reflect on where we should be.

Only for Barry Kelly's officiating, we'd still be in NHL1 and going into the championship with confidence of knowing we would be top division next year.

Biggest 2 weeks for Dublin hurling in recent memory. Go to Clare and win, who knows how far we'll go but lose and it will be the end of Daly and the start of some serious head scratching for all involved.

Better teams that Dub have lost in Clare, but as they say, it's all down to the day.

adrian522

I fancy Dublin to beat Clare to be honest. Dublin are much better than they showed against Kilkenny and I expect them to tear into Clare the way they should have played against Kilkenny.

It should be close but expect Dublin to come through.

No way will Clare have it wrapped up at half time.

hans aus dtschl

The game will be very close I reckon. Dublin got caught badly against Kilkenny and will be out to prove a point. Clare's team of young fast skillful lads are improving fast. Will be a great test for both teams. Dublin must have had higher aims than the Leinster final, and Clare will have no fear. Ennis is a bit of a stronghold too. Should be a good one.

Offaly is serious ambush territory for Cork, has potential for the years big upset, this Cork team are young and can be caught yet.

Limerick, I'd expect to come through unscathed, and Wexford also.

buck65

aidan24326 wrote: »

Clare to beat Dublin by 6+ ? Really? This isn't a great Clare team and Dublin will want to redeem themselves after Saturday's collapse. Dublin are probably the better team if they show up, though home advantage is probably worth 3 or 4 points to Clare. I think this one will be close.

Yeah, that's a good summation I think. Dublin will be slightly favoured for this but Clare will fancy their chances too.
Dublin are physically strong and imposing but Clare would possibly have a bit more hurling...maybe.
Then again Dublin are due a big performance.

liammur

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

The game will be very close I reckon. Dublin got caught badly against Kilkenny and will be out to prove a point. Clare's team of young fast skillful lads are improving fast. Will be a great test for both teams. Dublin must have had higher aims than the Leinster final, and Clare will have no fear. Ennis is a bit of a stronghold too. Should be a good one.

Offaly is serious ambush territory for Cork, has potential for the years big upset, this Cork team are young and can be caught yet.

Limerick, I'd expect to come through unscathed, and Wexford also.

If Offaly beat Cork, I'll hail you as a hurling genius. No one will be giving them a chance, I saw them v Wx and they were pitiful.

corny

adrian522 wrote: »

I fancy Dublin to beat Clare to be honest. Dublin are much better than they showed against Kilkenny and I expect them to tear into Clare the way they should have played against Kilkenny.

It should be close but expect Dublin to come through.

No way will Clare have it wrapped up at half time.

Depends on what Dublin shows up. If they can get the heads right i'd make them strong favourites but i don't think the heads are right. Clare by 5.

liammur

Latest odds to win their game, this suggests big wins apart from the clare match:

LK 1/50:
WX 1/200
Coek 1/12
Dub 4/5

jdooley28

Surely Offaly would have been in a better position if they had lost to Wexford. How can any system be fair to allow that. I no WX will need to play an extra game than Offaly if they are to reach phase 3 but playing Carlow and Westmeath is much easier than playing Cork. Away I might add but thats a different matter!

liammur

jdooley28 wrote: »

Surely Offaly would have been in a better position if they had lost to Wexford. How can any system be fair to allow that. I no WX will need to play an extra game than Offaly if they are to reach phase 3 but playing Carlow and Westmeath is much easier than playing Cork. Away I might add but thats a different matter!

End result will be the same tho, a swift exit.

jdooley28

fair point, very flawed system though

liammur

jdooley28 wrote: »

fair point, very flawed system though

It depends on the draw, could Wex have drawn LK ?

Roger Sterling

I find it strange people are writing off Dublin based on a hammering by KK. Apart from maybe Tipp, KK could just as easily hammer every other team in the country and will do so more than once again this Summer no doubt. Its hardly a good basis upon which to write a team off.

I think Dublin are a good bit ahead of Clare in terms of their development. Clare have some great young hurlers but they lack a few older heads on the pitch and the style of play their manager imposes on his teams won't help them in the long run either. I think their young lads are far better suited to a more open expansive style rather than the physically intensive, conservative style Davy Fitz prefers.

I think Dublin will win this and will do so far more comfortably that a lot of people think tbh.

Mal-Adjusted

The Dublin/Clare game should be the most competitive. Both are out to prove a point after their last matches. Clare are probably the superior team in fairness but they've always had a tendency to fall asleep if they get a bit ahead. Dublin will make a better show of it than against KK but if Clare show up at all, they should take it by 4 or 5 points.

Clareman

Anthony Daly doesn't do 2 big losses in a row, the last time he had a defeat of this magnitude was when he was managing Clare against Waterford in '04, they ended up drawing against Kilkenny in the quarter final. Having the game in Cusack Park is a hugh plus, but Clare haven't won a game in the championship since '08 so they will be under a lot of pressure.

DoctaDee

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

The Dublin/Clare game should be the most competitive. Both are out to prove a point after their last matches. Clare are probably the superior team in fairness but they've always had a tendency to fall asleep if they get a bit ahead. Dublin will make a better show of it than against KK but if Clare show up at all, they should take it by 4 or 5 points.

Not to get embroiled in a pedantic argument - but I wonder on what basis you would determine this. From my own perspective this Dublin team have contested an AI semi last year going down a few points to Tipp having won the NHL title also - this year other than Waterford/Galway they have performed very well in the league and are more than unlucky to have been relegated. While time and circumstance change Dublin also put 13 points on Clare in 2010 qualifiers, I'm not saying Clare won't win but all things considered I fail to see where their superiority lies.......

adrian522

Agree with that, last Saturday notwithstanding I'd say Dublin are currently stornger than Clare but there won't be much in it at the end with home advantage for Clare meaning it could really go either way.

Another way to look at this is that this is really a "must win" game for Dublin.

If Dublin lose it will mean a complete disaster of a season, win and they have a decent chance at a quarter final and who knows what may happen then.

Clare on the other hand as they have already been promoted which was probably their primary aim for the team. They are also earlier in their development cycle so have a few years before the "need" to be winning games like this.

To be honest I think people are overreacting to the game last Saturday.

Stevecw

Looking at the 2 qualifier games on this weekend, this could get ugly. I can only see 2 hammerings handed out to Antrim and Carlow who despite already being by far the 2 weakest sides left, have to travel to Limerick & Wexford too!

Antrim lost to Westmeath who got well beaten by Galway, and destroyed by Wexford. So now they have to go away to a Limerick team who almost bet Tipp! 15-20 pt loss at best for Antrim.

As for my own county Carlow, we lost by 7 pts at home to Laois. The same Laois who got totally outclassed by both Dublin & Limerick. Never even gave them any sort of a challenge.
So since we were bad enough to lose to a Laois team who have been hammered in their 2 games so far, we've lost 5 players to emigration/injury.
A game in Wexford Park will only I fear result in a record defeat. If we get within 25 pts i'd be happy. Can see this being a 30-40 pt game sadly.

Get ready for many calls for changes in how hurling championship is structured after this wkend.

Hope i'm totally wrong, but I doubt it.

Tiernster7

Clare , Dublin game is a real scrap so many sub plots. Dal is quite litterally fighting for his job here . Anyone know whether Keaney will be available. Himself and O'Dwyer winning ball in the half forward line will be crucial here. Dublin by 4

LostBoy101

I really wish the Dublin vs Clare game wasn't scheduled at 7pm as the Dublin fans may find it difficult to make the game as the arrival back to Dublin will be around midnight which is madness. I won't be attending as I just had an operation so I'll have to join the armchair supporters for the time being.

However, I think Dublin will be out to prove a point against Clare after the embarrassing defeat by the cats. If we lose against Clare I fear it will be the end of Dalo's managment days.

Roger Sterling

LostBoy101 wrote: »

I really wish the Dublin vs Clare game wasn't scheduled at 7pm as the Dublin fans may find it difficult to make the game as the arrival back to Dublin will be around midnight which is madness. I won't be attending as I just had an operation so I'll have to join the armchair supporters for the time being.

However, I think Dublin will be out to prove a point against Clare after the embarrassing defeat by the cats. If we lose against Clare I fear it will be the end of Dalo's managment days.

Welcome to the world that supporters of the other 31 counties live in.:)

premierstone

Roger Sterling wrote: »

Welcome to the world that supporters of the other 31 counties live in.:)

Only the other 31 counties wouldnt have such ample public transport available to them

ArielAtom

I can see where people are coming from on both sides of the 7.00pm throw in. It is a bad time for Dublin supporters who want to bring children to the match. I can also see the argument for the people who say welcome to our world.

I may be wrong but the majority of throw ins are between 2 and 5pm. Why is this so late?

I think the sight of travelling clubs who have come up to Dublin to support their own county and presumably play a match against a Dublin Club before heading into Croke Park adds to the occasion. I think the GAA have missed a great opportunity here with the late throw in preventing a lot of Dublin clubs bringing under age teams down and getting a match v a local club as part of the trip.

Mountainlad

ArielAtom wrote: »

I can see where people are coming from on both sides of the 7.00pm throw in. It is a bad time for Dublin supporters who want to bring children to the match. I can also see the argument for the people who say welcome to our world.

I may be wrong but the majority of throw ins are between 2 and 5pm. Why is this so late?

I think the sight of travelling clubs who have come up to Dublin to support their own county and presumably play a match against a Dublin Club before heading into Croke Park adds to the occasion. I think the GAA have missed a great opportunity here with the late throw in preventing a lot of Dublin clubs bringing under age teams down and getting a match v a local club as part of the trip.

Not unusual for a game to be on at that time on a Saturday. I would say tv being the reason.

And why exactly can't they go to play a match and then onto watch the inter county match? If the match was on at 2, then the club game would want to be on at 11.30 we'll say. That would mean to be there 40 mins before throw in the Dublin lads would want to leave home around 8.20 roughly. They wouldn't arrive back til about 7pm. What's the difference?

ArielAtom

Mountainlad wrote: »

Not unusual for a game to be on at that time on a Saturday. I would say tv being the reason.

And why exactly can't they go to play a match and then onto watch the inter county match? If the match was on at 2, then the club game would want to be on at 11.30 we'll say. That would mean to be there 40 mins before throw in the Dublin lads would want to leave home around 8.20 roughly. They wouldn't arrive back til about 7pm. What's the difference?

I suppose kids would be up early anyway and home by 8.30 would not be a problem. Arriving home at midnight is a different proposition when dealing with 9/10 yr olds.