Luas (Red Line) on Joe Duffy Show today

Judgement Day

Yet again there appears to have been trouble on the Luas (Red Line) according to a caller to the Joe Duffy Show today.

'Ian was on the Luas yesterday when about 20 people got on ranging in age from 3 – 20 and started hassling the passengers. Ian was assaulted by them and they tried to take a chain from around his neck.'

The worst aspect of this trouble appears to be that despite being witnessed by Luas staff it was ignored! The clip starts on the RTE player at 00:33:42

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/

AlekSmart

Judgement Day wrote: »

Yet again there appears to have been trouble on the Luas (Red Line) according to a caller to the Joe Duffy Show today.

'Ian was on the Luas yesterday when about 20 people got on ranging in age from 3 – 20 and started hassling the passengers. Ian was assaulted by them and they tried to take a chain from around his neck.'

The worst aspect of this trouble appears to be that despite being witnessed by Luas staff it was ignored! The clip starts on the RTE player at 00:33:42

http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/

Same old,same old......this type of behaviour was,after all,the staple fodder of the late unlamented 77 Bus route as well as the 65B and assorted other routes which "served the entire community" in this region.

Dublin Bus largely ignored it out of a terror of making things worse,imposed upon them by the generally accepted line that this savagery was being perpetrated by "poor young forgotten local yoofs with no facilities provided for them" etc etc...ad nauseum.

The eventual result of this is a permanent presence of a Senior Supervisor in a Staff Car,assorted liason meetings with Gardai and Local Public Representatives all to little avail as the ongoing muppetry continues.

Veolia will eventually follow Dublin Bus to the same end unless they get very heavy,very fast with these cretins,as the company is now being seen not to be in control of it's own infrastructure.

Once that perception sets in and is seen to be unchallenged,then it's game-over and eventually the City West extension will see tumble-weed blowing along it's tracks.

The gangs and their members are largely identifiable,as they have absolute confidence in the invincibility conferred upon them by their "Juvenile" status.

The Gardai "Know" them....The STT staff "Know" them,Veolia "Know" them...The various local DSP Social Workers "Know" them.....the local schools "Knew" many of them up until they were enticed to doss out of the school system by the Gang leaders.

The reality is that only a few individuals need to be targetted in order to re-establish Public Ownership of the line and Public Order on it.

The essential first step to be taken by Veolia and the RPA is to acknowledge,on Liveline if necessary,that there IS a problem and that it's existence threatens the very presence of LUAS in West Tallaght.

That would be a start,and a good one...then sit back and see what develops....continuing with the present see-no-evil,hear-no-evil,speak-no-evil policy is not going to achieve anything at all.

bmaxi

You would hope that, as a franchisee, Veolia would have more incentive to sort the problem than the ""untouchable" C.I.E. If not, and the franchise is maintained, the suggestion would be that the brown envelopes are falling on the right desks.

thomasm

Joe Duffy wondering did he give them a slap...all 12 of them FFS

dowlingm

bmaxi wrote: »

You would hope that, as a franchisee, Veolia would have more incentive to sort the problem than the ""untouchable" C.I.E. .

I think the Oireachtas Committee on Transport should be having the various public service agencies in to ask about public order on their vehicles and determine how much is lack of will to hire security and how much is a lack of powers to act even when the security is present.

On a general point as opposed to bmaxi's, there's a lot of people on boards who doubtless look down their nose at the junkies and the beggars and tut about the standards Veolia/RPA allow but let them get themselves stupid drunk one night and end up with a fine for no ticket and LO! They're back here asking for advice on false names, moaning about how security only accosts the affluent and otherwise attempting to avoid the fine.

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

Same old,same old......this type of behaviour was,after all,the staple fodder of the late unlamented 77 Bus route as well as the 65B and assorted other routes which "served the entire community" in this region.

I got the 77 (and do lament it compared to the awful 27) and get the 56A 'in this region' and don't see the problems on the rare occasions I see when I get the Luas in Tallaght.

It's the north city section and canal section of the Red Luas line that I experience the problems. The 77 and even the 78A before its demise were much much safer. It hasn't simply transferred across as it would appear you are saying.

AlekSmart

dowlingm wrote: »

I think the Oireachtas Committee on Transport should be having the various public service agencies in to ask about public order on their vehicles and determine how much is lack of will to hire security and how much is a lack of powers to act even when the security is present.

On a general point as opposed to bmaxi's, there's a lot of people on boards who doubtless look down their nose at the junkies and the beggars and tut about the standards Veolia/RPA allow but let them get themselves stupid drunk one night and end up with a fine for no ticket and LO! They're back here asking for advice on false names, moaning about how security only accosts the affluent and otherwise attempting to avoid the fine.

I would have to disagree with the second part of dowlingm's post.

Whilst it may,to an extent be true in vaguely general terms,the specifics of the Luas Red Line Extension Public Order problems are far more serious.

The levels of aggression,intimidation and generally anti-social behaviour by a number of seperate anti-social groupings has been steadily ramping up since the Saggart Line opened.

In the initial few weeks it was toe-in-the-water time until the reality of the RPA/Veolia's committment to maintaining Customer Safety and Comfort became apparent.

Remember also,that significant numbers of these "wolf-packs" have already amassed plenty of "Form".

In the case of the juveniles,it's mainly JLO stuff (the apprenticeship) but equally there are 17 year olds with multiple probation act applications.

At the rear of these groupings are a smaller number of older Alpha-Males,usually well known to the local Gardai,with in some cases actual jail-time behind them.

These gentlemen have in some cases expanded into other areas of crime,in which the presence of Luas services can offer logistical support,particularly if those services are effectively under their own control,as is becoming the case,certainly beyond Belgard Stop.

However,the needs and machinations of these deadpans should not concern any of us who view Luas as a part of what other civilized Capital Cities regard as part of their normal surroundings.

This current stituation has no parallel with the Drunk "Ordinary Guy" at all......this situation is far far more dangerous if it's not rapidly addressed asap.

ordinary_girl

dfx- wrote: »

I got the 77 (and do lament it compared to the awful 27) and get the 56A 'in this region' and don't see the problems on the rare occasions I see when I get the Luas in Tallaght.

I got the 77 on a daily basis before the LUAS began and it was nothing short of a nightmare. I've noticed in recent years since the LUAS started issues on the 77 have lessened (and I do think the 27 is better, it just seems better) and I think all of the people that made the 77 commute so unbearable just started using the LUAS instead.

I've luckily been able to avoid getting the red line LUAS for the past year, and hope it stays that way, it's so so much worse than the bus. There's so much trouble on the red line, and in the past when I was on it it's always massive gangs of people that are causing issues too, you instantly feel intimidated once they start basically taking over the tram and hassling commuters.

I do think it's unfair to say that these problems "threaten the very presence of LUAS in West Tallaght." All of these issues can't be attributed to the West Tallaght section of the line, a lot of seemingly rough people travel between different stops in the city, and Bluebell also seems pretty popular for that too. What's needed is proper security, not getting rid of parts of the line.

AlekSmart

dfx- wrote: »

I got the 77 (and do lament it compared to the awful 27) and get the 56A 'in this region' and don't see the problems on the rare occasions I see when I get the Luas in Tallaght.

It's the north city section and canal section of the Red Luas line that I experience the problems. The 77 and even the 78A before its demise were much much safer. It hasn't simply transferred across as it would appear you are saying.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one dfx,perhaps we simply have different perceptions ?

I would broadly agree with your points re the North City Centre and Canal sections.

However the passenger loadings are healthier on the "older" section as the savagery largely did not become an issue until somewhat later into the Red Lines existence.

The problem with the Saggart extension is that the thuggery came pre-loaded and thus actively discouraged what may have become regular Luas customers before they could get comfortable with the service.

Again,the option of suggesting overreaction or of adopting a wait-and-see approach do remain and most likely will continue as "official" policy,but I suggest this bodes ill for any real prospect of the Saggart extension becoming the principle comfortable,affordable means of access to the City Centre and Tallaght itself.

AlekSmart

ordinary_girl wrote: »

I got the 77 on a daily basis before the LUAS began and it was nothing short of a nightmare. I've noticed in recent years since the LUAS started issues on the 77 have lessened (and I do think the 27 is better, it just seems better) and I think all of the people that made the 77 commute so unbearable just started using the LUAS instead.

I've luckily been able to avoid getting the red line LUAS for the past year, and hope it stays that way, it's so so much worse than the bus. There's so much trouble on the red line, and in the past when I was on it it's always massive gangs of people that are causing issues too, you instantly feel intimidated once they start basically taking over the tram and hassling commuters.

I do think it's unfair to say that these problems "threaten the very presence of LUAS in West Tallaght." All of these issues can't be attributed to the West Tallaght section of the line, a lot of seemingly rough people travel between different stops in the city, and Bluebell also seems pretty popular for that too. What's needed is proper security, not getting rid of parts of the line.

Ordinary_Girl,I'm not suggesting that these issues are specific to West-Tallaght at all.

As somebody living here for the past 23 years I'm certainly not one for doing a Liveline on the usual-suspects.

What I am suggesting however,is that in the present economic climate Luas,as with Dublin Bus and every other Public Transport entity is having to start focusing on actually generating fare-paying business.

The old days of Public Transport being cross-subsidised or otherwise strategically funded are disappearing fast.

This is leading to scenarios like DB's Network Direct which essentially is sweating assets and directing passengers onto a smaller range of services.

If the muppetry which we currently endure on the Saggart line is allowed to develop any further without being firmly and visibly addressed,then the vitally important regular passenger numbers will not be able to support the current service levels.

Once this spiral begins,the only way is down with frequency reductions and fare-increases as the norm.

As you rightly point-out Dublin Bus endured this exact scenario for many years on so many of it's services throughout the City.

The end result,belated as it is,has been the enforced reduction of it's fleet and services,with further reductions in off-peak and week-end services now a distinct possibility.

In a significant number of these cases the "reputation" of these routes ensured that for most "Ordinary_Girls" and Boys,the bus was only regarded as safe for Peak-Time work/school related commuting.

We do not want to see this happen with Luas,we (as in the Country) cannot afford to watch helplessly as yet another positive element is trashed and smashed by the usual suspects,whom have been SO effective at dictating the circumstances under which everybody else is forced to live.

dfx-

AlekSmart wrote: »

However the passenger loadings are healthier on the "older" section as the savagery largely did not become an issue until somewhat later into the Red Lines existence.

For me, the Luas is at its safest that it has ever been, at its worst at the start. However it must be said I do still avoid it, due to the canal and north city sections but also the fact that is too slow, uncomfortable and its nearest stop to me is a 25 minute walk, yet I cross its tracks daily (Spot prize for identifying the stop ) - it is not just behavioural issues of any local wildlife.

ordinary_girl, I've seen things/violence on the Luas that I never ever saw on the 77. It could also be said that the people who were 'around' at the height of it in the late 90s are no longer around, for various reasons.

zagmund

I'll admit that I'm commenting on this without having experienced it, but the idea of a group of people coming on board and waging general mayhem sounds crazy. What ever about an individual causing a scene on the train or tram, a group repeatedly doing in an orchestrated way sounds really intimidating.

Would this sort of scenario be an acceptable reason to activate the "in case of emergency" device ? I imagine that this happening over and over and over might ultimately end up helping to raise the profile and perhaps help towards a resolution.

I know that I would be annoyed at my tram being stopped and delayed repeatedly, but surely personal safety has to count for something.

z

devnull

In relation to the original post, I saw something similar when I got chucked off a broken down DART at Howth Junction, people openly dealing drugs and fighting on the opposite platform. Got on the next dart after a long delay, two carriages, saw a all out aggressive hardcore fight on the train with furniture in carriage being destroyed.

STT security walked past and shrugged their shoulders and went to sit down in the next car. Couldn't believe it, what is the point in having security when they do nothing. My point is it's all very well having them on the LUAS, and on the dart or whatever, but they actually need to either have more power, or be more proactive, ideally we need a dedicated transport police but that is never going to happen.

Also about a year or so ago I was on the underground in London and some guy dressed up as a hippy got on and started acting strangely. Turned out that he was a ticket inspector but looked absolutely nothing like one as he was dressed as a tramp, got his ID badge out, and started checking tickets. Great disguise, the number of penalty fares he gave out was incredible. They clearly were not expecting that!

KD345

Unfortunately, stories like the one posted above don't shock people any more. The Red Line now has a reputation for criminal and anti-social behavior, which is a disgrace when you consider how much it cost to build, and the convenience and links it offers the decent people living in areas it passes through.

I've given up reporting incidents on the trams and platforms, and after attending one of the "meet the managers" evenings a year ago, it was clear that they were well aware of the situation. The problem is that they are doing nothing effective about it. It's easy to put up CCTV posters on stops, and employ a security firm who look as though they're ready to enter war, but when a gang of youths or junkies continue to harass passengers every day in full view of these security guys and CCTV cameras, then you have wonder what is the point?

The trouble is not isolated to just Tallaght, although it would seem the section between Belgard and Citywest has become serious. I have witnessed drug dealing at Suir Road, gangs of youths chanting racist abuse at passengers at Rialto and Four Courts, customer service staff being spat at in Museum, I've been on a tram waiting for the Gardai to arrive at The Point and witnessed a passenger attacked waiting for the tram at Abbey Street one evening. I'm guessing any regular red line passenger would probably have similar accounts of incidents.

Nothing is being done to tell these criminals that they will be prosecuted. For example, when traveling home from work last week, a girl boarded the tram at Busaras. At the same stop, 3 ticket checkers also boarded, in full view of this girl. When they came to check tickets, the girl, who was sitting opposite me, told the ticket checker that she hadn't a ticket. He politely explained she needed a ticket to travel and she then began shouting abuse at the guy, he asked her to leave the tram at the next stop, which she did, while continuing to shout abuse. Naturally, this scene caused a lot of disruption for fare paying passengers who were sitting close by. What irritated me more was that a short distance away, another ticket checker was issuing a fine to another passenger, this passenger was calm and polite and accepted the fine. Instantly, the message shown to passengers was that if you shout abuse, you'll just be asked to leave the tram. This girl even boarded the tram with the inspectors, she just didn't care.

According to a report released in January of this year, there were 3 anti-social behavior incidents every day on the Luas in 2011. I'm guessing this just accounts for reported/serious incidents, and not the junkies begging at stops and general drunks/junkies who take the tram. That figure must alarm the CEO of Veolia. To be fair, the service runs well, there is excellent marketing and customer service, but this issue really does need to be addressed.

mikemac1

Saw some young lads on the red line, smartly dressed in their suits

Must have been going to court

AlekSmart

devnull wrote: »

STT security walked past and shrugged their shoulders and went to sit down in the next car. Couldn't believe it, what is the point in having security when they do nothing. My point is it's all very well having them on the LUAS, and on the dart or whatever, but they actually need to either have more power, or be more proactive, ideally we need a dedicated transport police but that is never going to happen.

The major problem with the provision of "security" such as delivered by STT staff is that it is pretty much window-dressing.

Whilst the STT employees may look the part,this image has little or no effect on the individuals featuring in the,by now,regular reports of trouble.


These people are VERY well versed in the realities of the Law as it is applied to them,aided and abetted by a phalanx of State provided legal services.

Anybody doubting this should try to listen-in on the conversations between the pack-members and/or any STT/CSO's who may decide to challenge them.

There is a pressing need for the RPA/NTA and the Garda Commissioner to specifically empower the trained STT personnel.

I would also suggest that the Garda Reserve could be far more effectively used to police Public Transport,as it contains many Public Transport Staff amongst its members whose expertise could be invaluable in combating the problem.

Unfortunately for those of us who fund the "System",it's protections appear to be skewed very much in favour of the serial offender and to equally restrict the ability of the Operator to actually maintain a level of acceptable security on their services.

At this point there is not going to be a "Nice","Easy" or "Low Profile" method of regaining control of this situation,but IF the authorities recognise this and simply provide the clear,direct and effective action required then I suspect the great majority of Public Transport users everywhere will roundly support them.

Del2005

AlekSmart wrote: »

devnull wrote: »

STT security walked past and shrugged their shoulders and went to sit down in the next car. Couldn't believe it, what is the point in having security when they do nothing. My point is it's all very well having them on the LUAS, and on the dart or whatever, but they actually need to either have more power, or be more proactive, ideally we need a dedicated transport police but that is never going to happen.

The major problem with the provision of "security" such as delivered by STT staff is that it is pretty much window-dressing.

Whilst the STT employees may look the part,this image has little or no effect on the individuals featuring in the,by now,regular reports of trouble.


These people are VERY well versed in the realities of the Law as it is applied to them,aided and abetted by a phalanx of State provided legal services.

Anybody doubting this should try to listen-in on the conversations between the pack-members and/or any STT/CSO's who may decide to challenge them.

There is a pressing need for the RPA/NTA and the Garda Commissioner to specifically empower the trained STT personnel.

I would also suggest that the Garda Reserve could be far more effectively used to police Public Transport,as it contains many Public Transport Staff amongst its members whose expertise could be invaluable in combating the problem.

Unfortunately for those of us who fund the "System",it's protections appear to be skewed very much in favour of the serial offender and to equally restrict the ability of the Operator to actually maintain a level of acceptable security on their services.

At this point there is not going to be a "Nice","Easy" or "Low Profile" method of regaining control of this situation,but IF the authorities recognise this and simply provide the clear,direct and effective action required then I suspect the great majority of Public Transport users everywhere will roundly support them.

This is the issue, the STT people are trying to deal with scum on the trams, but they have no authority to do anything. All they can do is ask them to leave the tram, as whenever they have removed them the Gardaí are more interested in doing the STT employees than the scum.

We need a dedicated transport police not guy's who look the business yet can't actually do anything. The scum know this so they do as they please.

foggy_lad

Del2005 wrote: »

This is the issue, the STT people are trying to deal with scum on the trams, but they have no authority to do anything. All they can do is ask them to leave the tram, as whenever they have removed them the Gardaí are more interested in doing the STT employees than the scum.

We need a dedicated transport police not guy's who look the business yet can't actually do anything. The scum know this so they do as they please.

There is no point looking for dedicated transport police when the country can't afford the police service we already have whose numbers are falling every year.

What is needed is summary corporal punishment for this anti social behaviour but we can't do that either because the civil liberties numpties would have palpitations worrying about the poor deprived scumbags.

Fines and immediate jail for non payment or for persistent offenders as well as no free legal aid for these persistent offenders is the way to go.

mikemac1

They were non-settled people Joe said the caller


People are terrified to even speak nowadays
Call them what they are. And Joe did jump in to be fair and told the caller to speak up

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

What is needed is summary corporal punishment for this anti social behaviour but we can't do that either because the civil liberties numpties would have palpitations worrying about the poor deprived scumbags.
Fines and immediate jail for non payment or for persistent offenders as well as no free legal aid for these persistent offenders is the way to go.

or instead of jail, a good old public flogging, round them up, bring them to one of the major pedestrian areas of dublin and beat them black and blue and televise it for everyone to see. i'd volunteer to cary out such flogging.

AlekSmart

end of the road wrote: »

or instead of jail, a good old public flogging, round them up, bring them to one of the major pedestrian areas of dublin and beat them black and blue and televise it for everyone to see. i'd volunteer to cary out such flogging.

Personally and realistically I see somewhat more merit in the approach taken in some U.S States.

This would entail convicted svagaes being offered specific manual labour as an alternative to a custodial sentence or a fine.

I would see some merit is using such offenders to clean soiled vehicles,platforms or other facilities as well as perhaps doing other menial tasks as required to benefit fare-paying "Ordinary" customers.

They would,of course,require supervision,and for maximum effect would have to wear hi-visibility clothing...as in lurid PINK Jump-Suits.

Each offender would have to agree to video records of their atonement being made and held for a specific time with posting on social websites as an added stricture should they re-offend.

Much of this behaviour is sadly typical Alpha-Male struttery stuff and the perpetrators tend to have highly inflated notions of their own bravado.

Upon conviction,Name them and most definintely SHAME them and,I contend,positive results will be seen !

Doing nothing,the most popular and politically correct option,will result in the problem worsening !

Fairfunk

I moved over to the North side 7 weeks ago and caught the luas red line from heuston to busaras twice a day until the number of instances finally pushed me over the edge. I now begrudgingly get the luas in and more happily bus back.

In the 7 weeks of catching the red line I've heard the phrase "smash your face in" twice, some guy pretending to be on a mobile phone so he could scream "I dont care whos f**king looking, if another one of those f**king <insert all sorts of racist abuse here> look at me I'll f***ing kill them". Some guy with half a nose cained out his head asking everyone around him (INCLUDING A SEVEN OR SO YEAR OLD GIRL) if they had a lighter and then when they didn't, mumbling all sorts of abusive names at them. Kids randomly holding the doors open. Two sc*m bags fully getting it on until an old man tutted...which relates to one of the "smash yer face ins" actually. Oh and some girl with her hand in my bag until I asked her what she was doing to which she replied "I weren't stealin’ nunint, but could you throw me a fiver anyway?"....what else....some guy randomly stand up, turn around and scream that he “f**king doesn’t care who she was he’ll f**king do her”, that was especially lovely for the elderly women sitting around him.

I'm sure theres loads more but I've tried to block it all out. No security was present for any of this! All in seven weeks! Moving back southside soon enough. How I miss the green line in comparison.

él statutorio

Fairfunk wrote: »

I moved over to the North side 7 weeks ago and caught the luas red line from heuston to busaras twice a day until the number of instances finally pushed me over the edge. I now begrudgingly get the luas in and more happily bus back.

In the 7 weeks of catching the red line I've heard the phrase "smash your face in" twice, some guy pretending to be on a mobile phone so he could scream "I dont care whos f**king looking, if another one of those f**king <insert all sorts of racist abuse here> look at me I'll f***ing kill them". Some guy with half a nose cained out his head asking everyone around him (INCLUDING A SEVEN OR SO YEAR OLD GIRL) if they had a lighter and then when they didn't, mumbling all sorts of abusive names at them. Kids randomly holding the doors open. Two sc*m bags fully getting it on until an old man tutted...which relates to one of the "smash yer face ins" actually. Oh and some girl with her hand in my bag until I asked her what she was doing to which she replied "I weren't stealin’ nunint, but could you throw me a fiver anyway?"....what else....some guy randomly stand up, turn around and scream that he “f**king doesn’t care who she was he’ll f**king do her”, that was especially lovely for the elderly women sitting around him.

I'm sure theres loads more but I've tried to block it all out. No security was present for any of this! All in seven weeks! Moving back southside soon enough. How I miss the green line in comparison.

Just you wait til the lines are linked.....scumbags migrating to the southside....

Fairfunk

Until I moved northside I always wondered why they didn’t connect the twolines...now I can only thank them for it!

Ironically if the scummers were more inclined to pay for their tickets thenmaybe the council would have a little more spending money and be more likely tojoin the two lines. Just think how many more people the scumbags couldthen rob and / or intimidate. They're missing a trick there!!!!

Red Crow

Amazing really because i get the Red line Luas regularly and I never see any trouble.

Judgement Day

Eli Manning wrote: »

Amazing really because i get the Red line Luas regularly and I never see any trouble.

Amazing. :rolleyes:

thomasj

él statutorio wrote: »

Fairfunk wrote: »

I moved over to the North side 7 weeks ago and caught the luas red line from heuston to busaras twice a day until the number of instances finally pushed me over the edge. I now begrudgingly get the luas in and more happily bus back.

In the 7 weeks of catching the red line I've heard the phrase "smash your face in" twice, some guy pretending to be on a mobile phone so he could scream "I dont care whos f**king looking, if another one of those f**king <insert all sorts of racist abuse here> look at me I'll f***ing kill them". Some guy with half a nose cained out his head asking everyone around him (INCLUDING A SEVEN OR SO YEAR OLD GIRL) if they had a lighter and then when they didn't, mumbling all sorts of abusive names at them. Kids randomly holding the doors open. Two sc*m bags fully getting it on until an old man tutted...which relates to one of the "smash yer face ins" actually. Oh and some girl with her hand in my bag until I asked her what she was doing to which she replied "I weren't stealin’ nunint, but could you throw me a fiver anyway?"....what else....some guy randomly stand up, turn around and scream that he “f**king doesn’t care who she was he’ll f**king do her”, that was especially lovely for the elderly women sitting around him.

I'm sure theres loads more but I've tried to block it all out. No security was present for any of this! All in seven weeks! Moving back southside soon enough. How I miss the green line in comparison.

Just you wait til the lines are linked.....scumbags migrating to the southside....

You obviously havent gone south of sandyford or south of heuston......

ballooba

foggy_lad wrote: »

Del2005 wrote: »

This is the issue, the STT people are trying to deal with scum on the trams, but they have no authority to do anything. All they can do is ask them to leave the tram, as whenever they have removed them the Gardaí are more interested in doing the STT employees than the scum.

We need a dedicated transport police not guy's who look the business yet can't actually do anything. The scum know this so they do as they please.

There is no point looking for dedicated transport police when the country can't afford the police service we already have whose numbers are falling every year.

What is needed is summary corporal punishment for this anti social behaviour but we can't do that either because the civil liberties numpties would have palpitations worrying about the poor deprived scumbags.

Fines and immediate jail for non payment or for persistent offenders as well as no free legal aid for these persistent offenders is the way to go.

How much do the STT guys cost? If we could get Gardai for the same price then great.

highdef

I see a lot of reference to the Red line being north side when in fact the vast majority is actually south side

CIE

AlekSmart wrote: »

Personally and realistically I see somewhat more merit in the approach taken in some U.S States.

This would entail convicted savages being offered specific manual labour as an alternative to a custodial sentence or a fine.

I would see some merit is using such offenders to clean soiled vehicles, platforms or other facilities as well as perhaps doing other menial tasks as required to benefit fare-paying "Ordinary" customers.

They would, of course, require supervision, and for maximum effect would have to wear hi-visibility clothing...as in lurid PINK Jump-Suits.

Each offender would have to agree to video records of their atonement being made and held for a specific time with posting on social websites as an added stricture should they re-offend.

Much of this behaviour is sadly typical Alpha-Male struttery stuff and the perpetrators tend to have highly inflated notions of their own bravado.

Upon conviction, Name them and most definintely SHAME them and, I contend, positive results will be seen!

Doing nothing, the most popular and politically correct option, will result in the problem worsening!

Not universally applied over there. Take a look at Chicago, which has more murthers per capita than even Mexico City. Left-wing reinterpretations of the USA's Eighth Amendment (whose second clause bans "cruel and unusual punishment") has resulted in excessive leniency, and the "do-nothing" attitude of such Chicago mayors as the former Daley and the current Rahm Emanuel will result in this boiling over. In both Chicago and Dublin, I foresee (unfortunately) eventual vigilantism.

Judgement Day

highdef wrote: »

I see a lot of reference to the Red line being north side when in fact the vast majority is actually south side

Technically you're correct but most 'southsiders' would lump in the westside (Tallaght, Ballyfermot etc.) with the northside. Could we get the Liffey rerouted perhaps?