New Local Area Plan - Proposal for Charlesland to become part of Kilcoole?

EllieD

Hi All,

Wondering if anyone has heard about this or knows any more about it. I read about it in the Wicklow Times this evening after my next door neighbour mentioned it to me.

Essentially from what I understand, Councillors are preparing for a new Local Area plan, the current one expiring in 2013. They are looking at the possibilities of creating a combined plan with Kilcoole. What jumped out at me was the fact that some councillors looking to develop one plan for Delgany and Greystones (minus Charlesland) and an additional one for Charlesland and Kilcoole.

Reading between the lines, does this mean that those same councillors wish to eliminate Charlesland from the Greystones map altogether?

Not looking to provoke a discussion around is Charlesland really Greystones as I know that discussion has been had before. WHat I AM looking for is any information as to what the implications would be - eg in terms of school access etc.

FInally and for your info, there are to be public meetings on June 13th (Scout Den Kilcoole) and 14th (Town Council Offices) - one of which I hope to attend.
Thanks in advance for any input!

mirekb

I don't see it as a goer as far as schools are concerned. The primary school in kilcoole is already over subscribed. The two new primary schools in greystones were built to take the kids from the new developments ( including charlesland). If charlesland were kilcoole then it would cause problems. It would mean charlesland children could go to the vec in kilcoole but then why build a new secondary school here then? And could the vec take them all?

Annasopra

OP have you read the documentation here?

http://www.wicklow.ie/apps/wicklowbeta/Publications/Planning/Greystones%20Delgany%20Kilcoole/GreyDelganyKilcooleLAP.aspx

matt-dublin

It doesnt seem to say anything like that in the plan?

More along the lines that additional house has been built in Kilcoole and residents are travelling to greystones to use amenities there ratheer than local ones.

There's also suggestion of additional village centres to promote commercial growth in the area, or building on the greystones village.

They won't move charlesland into kilcoole but they may make the LAP one bigger one, economy to scale and all that lark.

Annasopra

matt-dublin wrote: »

It doesnt seem to say anything like that in the plan?

Yeah I was really really confused when I read the WCC documentation - nothing about Charlesland becoming part of Kilcoole - but maybe there was something in the Wicklow Times suggesting this?

EllieD

Hi All, thanks for your responses.

Mango Salsa thanks also for your helpful link. Indeed in the Wicklow Times there was a reference to opinions from our local councillors who spoke more specifically about Charlesland to be included in Kilcoole (supported by some councillors whose names escape me) or to remain in Greystones (supported by Derek Mitchell). It made me anxious as to the political element of it not referenced in your links and possibly to be made clearer at the public meeting.

TychoBrailleur

Here is the excerpt I think EllieD is referring to in the WT (5th June) (Article New local area plan - could Greystones/Delgany combine?, p.19), for reference:

Cllr Grainne McLoughlin pointed out that with Charlesland now included in Kilcoole it now had the largest population and that it was different to Greystones/Delgany. (...) Cllr Derek Mitchell would oppose anything that did not preserve the green belt between the town and village. He thought that it was unnecessary to put Charlesland into Kilcoole.

tp25

funny, but is there must be some voice from behind the shoulder speaking to Cllr's...

pixbyjohn

tp25 wrote: »

funny, but is there must be some voice from behind the shoulder speaking to Cllr's...

???

tp25

pixbyjohn wrote: »

???

Someone from Greystones/Delgany isn't very happy about Charlesland

I'm talking about this reference:

Quote:
Cllr Grainne McLoughlin pointed out that with Charlesland now included in Kilcoole it now had the largest population and that it was different to Greystones/Delgany. (...)

matt-dublin

For funding only i would hazard a guess, your address will still be greystones

walnut grove

It may have something to do with keeping the crime statistics of greystones down. Each call the cops and fire brigades get is logged with the cso. Low crime in the stones and delgany not only keeps the posh ppl happy, but it's also good for tourism pathetic really. Eden gate will be next.

Maudi

walnut grove wrote: »

It may have something to do with keeping the crime statistics of greystones down. Each call the cops and fire brigades get is logged with the cso. Low crime in the stones and delgany not only keeps the posh ppl happy, but it's also good for tourism pathetic really. Eden gate will be next.

i wonder is this the same reason the tidy towns seem to end their activities around burnaby park shoreline area and dont venture up the farankelly rd?

Jimjay

Maudi wrote: »

i wonder is this the same reason the tidy towns seem to end their activities around burnaby park shoreline area and dont venture up the farankelly rd?

Last year they were picking litter up all the way down farankelly rd from shorline To charlesland.

pixbyjohn

Maudi wrote: »

i wonder is this the same reason the tidy towns seem to end their activities around burnaby park shoreline area and dont venture up the farankelly rd?

These people are volunteers and do a lot of tidying up over a wide area. Did you ever think of volunteering ?

Maudi

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Maudi wrote: »

i wonder is this the same reason the tidy towns seem to end their activities around burnaby park shoreline area and dont venture up the farankelly rd?

These people are volunteers and do a lot of tidying up over a wide area. Did you ever think of volunteering ?

i do some old folks call and chat hours..i volunteer also at an animal shelter and have done lots of childrens charity work..dont really have any time left after that..you?

Blandpebbles

What this thread really comes down to is -

People in Charlesland think they should be in Greystones,
People in Greystones don't care about Charlesland as long as its somewhere else.

Moving it to Kilcoole won't solve anything, it was poorly planned and implemented and now the surrounding towns are having to deal with the increased population and the strain this brings.

pixbyjohn

Blandpebbles wrote: »

What this thread really comes down to is -

People in Charlesland think they should be in Greystones,
People in Greystones don't care about Charlesland as long as its somewhere else.
Moving it to Kilcoole won't solve anything, it was poorly planned and implemented and now the surrounding towns are having to deal with the increased population and the strain this brings.

Please speak for yourself only. That is a very general statement which can hardly be backed up by fact.

audreyp

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Blandpebbles wrote: »

What this thread really comes down to is -

People in Charlesland think they should be in Greystones,
People in Greystones don't care about Charlesland as long as its somewhere else.
Moving it to Kilcoole won't solve anything, it was poorly planned and implemented and now the surrounding towns are having to deal with the increased population and the strain this brings.

Please speak for yourself only. That is a very general statement which can hardly be backed up by fact.

Am I the only person who likes living here? I would consider my town to be greystones as it's the closest centre to me. Why wouldn't greystones want to be associated with it? I'm not sure if I'm being very naive but it's a lovely estate

pixbyjohn

audreyp wrote: »

Am I the only person who likes living here? I would consider my town to be greystones as it's the closest centre to me. Why wouldn't greystones want to be associated with it? I'm not sure if I'm being very naive but it's a lovely estate

I would consider Charlesland as part of Greystones. ( I don't live in Charlesland )

dubsgirl

Blandpebbles wrote: »

What this thread really comes down to is -

People in Charlesland think they should be are in Greystones,
People in Greystones Mr Blandpebbles doesn't care about Charlesland as long as its somewhere else.

Moving it to Kilcoole won't solve anything, it was poorly planned and implemented and now the surrounding towns are having to deal with the increased population and the strain this brings.

Now all tidied up and corrected for you.

Charlesland is a great place to live in Greystones - definitely one of the most well maintained and friendliest estates

matt-dublin

They call that an FYP

2011

pixbyjohn wrote: »

I would consider Charlesland as part of Greystones. ( I don't live in Charlesland )

I can't see what the big deal is.

dubsgirl

matt-dublin wrote: »

They call that an FYP

lol - fixed your P????

matt-dublin

dubsgirl wrote: »

lol - fixed your P????

post......

walnut grove

Farrankelly Rd has not been handed over to the Council yet. That is why the road barrier hasn't been replaced after being hit by a car, and also the reason why Wicklow C.C. do not grit the road during the snow and also the reason why they are not responsible for the litter. There is also a 5 acre site there for a new Garda Station as well but that will never be built now.

matt-dublin

farrankelly road has afaik but the link road has not.

walnut grove

Afaik ?What is that Matt?

matt-dublin

as far as i know.

walnut grove

Ahh Thanks, That's a new one for me nice one.

Cheeky Chops

As someone that does not have a clue about this, a friend was talking to Derek Mitchell this morning. He said (apparently, and using this as an example) that the idea was to group the area from Kilcoole- Charlesland-Greystones together so things like a cycle path could be made from Kilcoole to Greystones (and then to Bray separately). It would make funding easier for issues like this.

Like I said, I have no knowledge on this but surely this would be a good thing?

mirekb

Would it mean that the running track etc would be in Kilcoole too? Can't see the people of Greystones wanting to lose that amenity:D

I said it before but Kilcoole cannot support Charlesland as far as the increase in school places go and this is a major consideration in any of these decisions.

Do our town council have charge of Kilcoole too?

Annasopra

mirekb wrote: »

Do our town council have charge of Kilcoole too?

No - in fact because it's an old town commission they are barely even in charge if Greystones.

recedite

I could be wrong here but IMO.....
Charlesland area was never "in Kilcoole," it was a farm just outside Greystones town, in the townland of Ballynerrin.
The 4 big towns in Wicklow have their own town councils; Greystones, Bray, Arklow and Wicklow Town.
Every other town and village is administered by Wicklow County Council, including Kilcoole. Now with Charlesland due to be handed over to a council, it makes sense to include it with Greystones, as it is obviously joined onto the town.
But maybe the gombeen men didn't get round to the paperwork, and left Charlesland under WCC.
But for the purposes of strategic plans for roads etc. it still makes sense to include all together in an "area plan", Greystones/Charlesland and Kilcoole, which is what they propose to do.

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

I could be wrong here but IMO.....
Charlesland area was never "in Kilcoole," it was a farm just outside Greystones town, in the townland of Ballynerrin.
The 4 big towns in Wicklow have their own town councils; Greystones, Bray, Arklow and Wicklow Town.
Every other town and village is administered by Wicklow County Council, including Kilcoole. Now with Charlesland due to be handed over to a council, it makes sense to include it with Greystones, as it is obviously joined onto the town.
But maybe the gombeen men didn't get round to the paperwork, and left Charlesland under WCC.
But for the purposes of strategic plans for roads etc. it still makes sense to include all together in an "area plan", Greystones/Charlesland and Kilcoole, which is what they propose to do.

No

This isn't really about what council charlesland comes under at all. When you say Charlesland is due to be handed over to a council, it's not really. The Charlesland road is due to be taken in charge by Wicklow County Council.

This is about the local area development plans of Kilcoole and Greystones being merged into one plan.

recedite

Two issues, the administrative area and the development plan; separate yet connected.

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

Two issues, the administrative area and the development plan; separate yet connected.

They're separate issues really - Greystones Town Council doesn't have the same status as a council as that of Bray/Wicklow/Arklow Town councils so Charlesland can vote in Greystones Town Council elections but the road will eventually be taken in charge by Wicklow County Council. That's not part of the development plans.

recedite

mango salsa wrote: »

so Charlesland can vote in Greystones Town Council elections but the road will eventually be taken in charge by Wicklow County Council. That's not part of the development plans.

Does that not strike you as a bit barmy?
I'm not disagreeing with you on any point of fact. I'm just saying that they were lazy in not bothering to bring Charlesland into the town's administrative area, and as a result they have this messy situation.

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

Does that not strike you as a bit barmy?
I'm not disagreeing with you on any point of fact. I'm just saying that they were lazy in not bothering to bring Charlesland into the town's administrative area, and as a result they have this messy situation.

It IS in the Towns administrative area - The status of Greystones Town Council is lesser than that of Bray/Arklow/Wicklow town councils so most services in Greystones are provided through Wicklow County Council.

recedite

mango salsa wrote: »

It IS in the Towns administrative area - The status of Greystones Town Council is lesser than that of Bray.....

Well it appears that Charlesland is outside the town council area currently, but as I said I'm no expert on the internal bureaucracy of the matter.

But the reason its important is that sometime in the future all local councils will probably be given much more power to deliver services as well as revenue raising powers, as they do in other countries, eg the London boroughs. Most politicians and economists accept that. The property tax is supposed to be the first step.

If you look at a map of Greystones 20 years ago, it was indeed a puny town, about 1/3 the size of Bray. Look at a current map now that Greystones/Delgany, Charlesland and Eden Gate have formed a single built-up conurbation. It's approx the same size as Bray. In a few years it will be bigger. There will be considerable power vested in the town councillors then, and maybe there will be a mayor too.

Annasopra

recedite wrote: »

Well it appears that Charlesland is outside the town council area currently, but as I said I'm no expert on the internal bureaucracy of the matter.

I'm almost certain Greystones Town Council does include Charlesland.

pixbyjohn

recedite wrote: »

There will be considerable power vested in the town councillors then, and maybe there will be a mayor too.

The Town council has a Mayor presently, Tom Fortune from Kilcoole and he is not the first Mayor we have had .

Annasopra

pixbyjohn wrote: »

The Town council has a Mayor presently, Tom Fortune from Kilcoole and he is not the first Mayor we have had .

Only for another two weeks - I think Cllr Kathleen Kelleher will be the next nominee.

recedite

Sorry I forgot about him. I meant an elected mayor, with powers.
Something similar to the sort that has been proposed for Dublin.

The Real B-man

Does it really matter you still have all the amenities around you i would consider as far a Bray my local area as i have grown up in the Kilcoole, Greystones & Bray area.