Learning Finnish thread

dogbert27

Moi, miten menee?!

Just wondering how many Irish people there are here who, like myself, are trying to learn Finnish because they might one day move to Finland with their Finnish OH and again like myself are failing miserably at learning the language!!!:)

Overflow

I wouldnt say too many, my OH father is Finnish and it sounds like a damn hard language to learn! Have you tried any of the pimsleur courses ?

brendanuk

i have tried in the past in finland. There was a course in finnish somewhere in Dublin (googled) http://www.sandfordlanguages.ie/courses/language.html?id=11&section=Evening

might give a go again

dogbert27

Thanks for the replies. I'm trying to learn it myself with the OH being from Finland I think it's important to learn it so to keep all options open for us in the future.
I'm using the Teach Yourself Finnish by Terttu Leeny (spelling?) which is good to a point but is very orientated towards being a tourist.
I'm also trying to translate Muumin cartoons taking them in segments, understanding what is written and then going back reading in Finnish but knowing what I'm reading. It works to a point. Some things stick, some don't.
Have tried conversations with the OH but it gets so slow and frustrating for the both of us that we end up talking English.
I saw the course in Dublin but unfortunately I don't live in the area.
I have some language learning software too but it's really hard to sit down at the computer in the evenings when you sit in front of one all day at work!!
Brendanuk what brought you to Finland in the past?

NilByMouth

2 of friends have tried to learn it but had to give up!!!Its suppose to be hard language to pick up.Luckily there OH's like ireland

mattysin

i have got a load of resources but its very tough . i have a lot of finnish friends and have been to finland many times. i would live there but the language is a big wall

brendanuk

Brendanuk what brought you to Finland in the past?

Finnish girl i met in Munich, we travelled about abit and ended up in Helsinki.
We have a daughter together, so i go and visit couple of times a year.

Have tried conversations with the OH but it gets so slow and frustrating for the both of us that we end up talking English.

When i was learning in Helsinki I used to come home from the course and try and do homework with OH and had the same problems. She said my Finnish was "paska" . You need to be encouraged and not get too frustrated, easier said than done! I am hoping my daughter will teach me now

People have done it so its not impossible, Keith Armstrong is a presenter on finnsh football tv and everyone says his finnish is very good, fluent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Armstrong

http://www.finlandforum.org/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4943&start=15

dogbert27

Hi Brendan,

thanks for the reply and the links. Great story regarding Keith Armstrong. As he said he did immersion in an area where nobody spoke English.
If it was financially possible I'd give it a go but unfortunately it's not!

I'll keep plugging away here though. It's hard to speak Finnish when I get over there, maybe it's the Irish confidence thing but I feel kind of foolish speaking in pidgeon Finnish when I know everyone can understand me if I talk in English. The last time I was there we were in a pub and I answered a question in Finnish and everyone was looking at me as if I had 2 heads! It took them a few seconds to realise that I had spoken Finnish and not some sort of drunken English!

brendanuk

Dont worry they look at most foreigners like they have 2 heads

good luck with the learning, I cant really give advice as I am still at pointing stage and saying "mitä tämä on". Have ordered pints and bought things in shops.

What about watching dvds in finnish with english subtitles, if you can get them. Try and get OH involved they would be best teacher imo. What about listening to finnish radio stations on the internet?

Your right about making fool of yourself, I am learning more and have more fun learning with my daughter who also looks at me like i am crazy, but I dont mind that, she is minun kaunis kukka

dogbert27

Kiitos for the encouragement!

Have the dvd's and the internet radio stations, they are a help. At the moment I'm translating comic strips and then going back reading them in Finnish and understanding what the say. The OH is helping too.

How long were you in Finland for? Did you actually get work there? I've been on the finlandforum and it gets fairly depressing reading about peoples failed experiences looking for work!

brendanuk

How long were you in Finland for? Did you actually get work there?

Was there for maybe 7 months. Yes i got work in software house but wasnt great, paid the rent and thats about it.

scottledeuce

I've just started my Masters Degree in Tampere and will be taking language classes for the next two years, As they keep saying "it's not a tough language, It's just different"

It's true in saying the best way to learn is by being here,For the moment I just try and take note of words around me, cash registers door handles and try and remember them, hopefully I'll get to the point of translating newspapers soon

anplaya

tsnu,i speak a bit of estonian,the person i learnt it from considers themself nordic not baltic,even though estonia is not strictly a nordic country,the characteristics of an estonian are similiar to nordic people and also the language is closely related to finnish rather than their baltic neighbours in latvia and lithuania.ethnic estonians closely resemble the nordic people a lot more than the baltics in looks ,mannerisms etc in my opinion

suomi

anplaya wrote: »

tsnu,i speak a bit of estonian,the person i learnt it from considers themself nordic not baltic,even though estonia is not strictly a nordic country,the characteristics of an estonian are similiar to nordic people and also the language is closely related to finnish rather than their baltic neighbours in latvia and lithuania.ethnic estonians closely resemble the nordic people a lot more than the baltics in looks ,mannerisms etc in my opinion

I agree, I'm Finnish and Estonian does sound a lot like Finnish, actually it sounds like Finnish with made up words. Some Finnish words are Estonian words too, they just have a different meaning. I think for a Finnish person it's pretty easy to understand Estonian because some of the words are so similar. I'm not sure if Estonian people are like Finnish people though, haven't really met any, but the languages for sure are a lot alike.


yep didn't know it was possible to repeat "Estonian" and "Finnish" this many times in one post

anplaya

well ive been to denmark,estonia and norway,seems pretty similiar to me so im assuming swedish and finnish people are also the same.

johnl

I like Finland an awful lot, I've just got back from my fourth trip there, a week in Helsinki.
I've been slowly learning phrases and things for quite a while, but I picked up a lot of new materials when I was there, so I'm going to ramp up my learning now.
I'm honestly surprised I am not the only person here even trying!!

suomi

anplaya wrote: »

well ive been to denmark,estonia and norway,seems pretty similiar to me so im assuming swedish and finnish people are also the same.

Nooo that's what people always assume but it's so not true! Finnish and Swedish people are not alike at all, a typical Finnish person would be a bit timid and shy, quiet, sarcastic, almost a bit grim but very loyal, honest and trustworthy. I'm not saying that Swedish people aren't like that, and that's really a stereotype, but still. A typical Swedish person would be happier, more social and outgoing. And when it comes to languages, Swedish and Finnish are nothing alike. Norwegian, Danish and Swedish are all alike, and then Finnish, Estonian and if I remember right, Hungarian (sp?) are all alike too.

suomi

johnl wrote: »

I like Finland an awful lot, I've just got back from my fourth trip there, a week in Helsinki.
I've been slowly learning phrases and things for quite a while, but I picked up a lot of new materials when I was there, so I'm going to ramp up my learning now.
I'm honestly surprised I am not the only person here even trying!!

That's cool! You can ask me if you want to know how to say something in Finnish, I'd be happy to help. I always find it really cool when someone is trying to learn Finnish since it is such a difficult language even in my opinion!

deman

Moikka kaverit!
I've been trying to learn this awful language for 14 years now. Actually I tell a lie.. I quit trying about 6 years ago and just taking the passive route now.

johnl

suomi wrote: »

That's cool! You can ask me if you want to know how to say something in Finnish, I'd be happy to help. I always find it really cool when someone is trying to learn Finnish since it is such a difficult language even in my opinion!

Thanks very much for that offer!
Very kind of you I think I will take you up on it, since I'm making another big effort to get beyond the stage of simple phrases and to actually saying real things. I got so frustrated by the end of my last trip there that I couldn't correspond in the native language with my friends there, and that I had to force English upon them, which always makes me feel guilty.
I generally pick up languages quite easily, so I think I at least have a fighting chance

suomi

deman wrote: »

Moikka kaverit!
I've been trying to learn this awful language for 14 years now. Actually I tell a lie.. I quit trying about 6 years ago and just taking the passive route now.

Ah, don't give up!! I see you live in Naantali, familiar with the Moomins huh?

johnl wrote: »

Thanks very much for that offer!
Very kind of you I think I will take you up on it, since I'm making another big effort to get beyond the stage of simple phrases and to actually saying real things. I got so frustrated by the end of my last trip there that I couldn't correspond in the native language with my friends there, and that I had to force English upon them, which always makes me feel guilty.
I generally pick up languages quite easily, so I think I at least have a fighting chance

Yeah you definitely have a chance, for me personally talking in the language with someone native is the best way to learn, so everytime I have a chance to speak English to someone, I go for it. Because you can learn all you want from the books, know the grammar and write sensible sentences, but if you never actually speak to anyone in that language, you'll never be fluent. At least that's what I think. So you should just keep trying, it's a great feeling when you can actually have a real conversation with someone in Finnish without having to use English!

johnl

suomi wrote: »

Yeah you definitely have a chance, for me personally talking in the language with someone native is the best way to learn, so everytime I have a chance to speak English to someone, I go for it. Because you can learn all you want from the books, know the grammar and write sensible sentences, but if you never actually speak to anyone in that language, you'll never be fluent. At least that's what I think. So you should just keep trying, it's a great feeling when you can actually have a real conversation with someone in Finnish without having to use English!

That's my aim, to be able to converse fully in Finnish, like I can in French and, to a lesser extent, Irish. My French was always good, but never great until I lived in France.
I totally agree, speaking with people is the only way to get really good at a langauge. Unfortunately, all my Finnish friends are in Finland! And I don't know anyone Finnish in Dublin who I could talk to, really...

dogbert27

Moikka everyone!

Glad this thread is getting more active.

Moi Suomi. It would be great if you could help some of us here like your offer to johnl and I've also heard the Estonian language being described as drunken Finnish!:D

I'll try to add some links if I can to resources I've found over the years. Here's a few:


http://www.uusikielemme.fi/vocabulary.html

http://users.utu.fi/jmkark/kieli/kielioppi/lausetyypit.html

suomi

dogbert27 wrote: »

Moikka everyone!

Glad this thread is getting more active.

Moi Suomi. It would be great if you could help some of us here like your offer to johnl and I've also heard the Estonian language being described as drunken Finnish!:D

I'll try to add some links if I can to resources I've found over the years. Here's a few:


http://www.uusikielemme.fi/vocabulary.html

http://users.utu.fi/jmkark/kieli/kielioppi/lausetyypit.html

Yes of course I can help others too! The vocabulary website you posted is especially great, a lot of helpful expressions. I think the hardest part of learning Finnish is conjugating, since you can't just put an "s" at the end of the word like you could with most words in English.

I found this website: http://www.edu.fi/oppimateriaalit/suomeaolehyva/ It's all in Finnish but there's a lot of good exercises. You need to know Finnish to be able to use it though because all the questions are in Finnish but it's good for someone who knows some Finnish and wants to work on forming sentences and so on. "Harjoitukset" means exercises.

dogbert27

Kiitos for the link Suomi! I didn't have that one.

anplaya

dogbert27 wrote: »

Moikka everyone!

Glad this thread is getting more active.

Moi Suomi. It would be great if you could help some of us here like your offer to johnl and I've also heard the Estonian language being described as drunken Finnish!:D

I'll try to add some links if I can to resources I've found over the years. Here's a few:


http://www.uusikielemme.fi/vocabulary.html

http://users.utu.fi/jmkark/kieli/kielioppi/lausetyypit.html

nah its not like drunken finnish,just similiar to finnish cept finnish words tend to be longer.

tnethacker

Hey mates.

Learning the bloody Finnish language is not that difficult as you just pronounce the words and letters as you would pronounce Gaelic (Remember? It's the language you're suppose to speak).

If you guys have any difficulties learning, just ask me anything and ill hit it with the answers

Ps. Learning Gaelic is not that difficult as i have learned to pronounce it correctly just after few months of passive learning. :eek:

tnethacker

About 95 percent of Finns speak proper English, so you can just easily manage with your native tongue and never need to learn the local language, so
no need to worry

Flynn

Article

Apparently Finnish is the easiest to read so i guess that's a bonus?

scottledeuce

tnethacker wrote: »

Hey mates.

Learning the bloody Finnish language is not that difficult as you just pronounce the words and letters as you would pronounce Gaelic (Remember? It's the language you're suppose to speak).

If you guys have any difficulties learning, just ask me anything and ill hit it with the answers

Ps. Learning Gaelic is not that difficult as i have learned to pronounce it correctly just after few months of passive learning. :eek:

That's very true, I've found having a good knowledge of Irish has been a big help espically with the sounds of the letters.

Flynn wrote: »

Article

Apparently Finnish is the easiest to read so i guess that's a bonus?

Again once you can pronounce the letters the words themselves are quite easy (maybe sometimes quite long) but if you can break tehm up it's easy to read as the basic sounds don't change.

Take for example 3721 = 'kolme-tuhatta-seitsemän-sataa-kaksi-kymmentä-yksi'
3 thousand 7 hundred two tens one
Except in Finish it's written kolmetuhattaseitsemänsataakaksikymmentäyksi :eek:

This is the book I'm studying from if anybody is interested..It's quite like the books we used to learn irish from, with short stories to translate and questions about your name, family and so on...feel like a 4 year old again but it's good.
The only thing is it's all in finnish but I find that's the best way to learn even though I've written over half my book already

mmmmmmm.......

Originally Posted by tnethacker
Hey mates.

Learning the bloody Finnish language is not that difficult as you just pronounce the words and letters as you would pronounce Gaelic (Remember? It's the language you're suppose to speak).

If you guys have any difficulties learning, just ask me anything and ill hit it with the answers

Ps. Learning Gaelic is not that difficult as i have learned to pronounce it correctly just after few months of passive learning.

"That's very true, I've found having a good knowledge of Irish has been a big help espically with the sounds of the letters."

funny because i found having irish helped me learn swedish better!!!strange!

abceire

i had a go too, my ex was finnish, i even moved to finland used to live in lahti, afraid i only lasted or we only lasted 3 1/2 months once i moved there,she lived here for 2 years and spoke perfect english
i did enjoy trying to learn it,i had a learn finnish cd which i used to listen to in the car,i learnt how to count, i learnt how to tell time in finnish,days of the week,months of the years
its ment to be the 2nd hardiest language in the world to learn, but i think it helps if you learn the alpabet,(need to learn english)theres no silent letters or anything so it you know alfabet you should be able to read out any word,i liked learning a new sentence and then suprising my ex gfs parents ,i worked with all finns which helped me learn,i m amazed how great english finns speak,
i also think finnish girls are hot, and nice personalities
so any finnish girls in ireland who want to have irish bf give me a shout, i d loved finland, such nice summers,such dry climate,no drug addicts, so much nature, i miss sausage soup and summer cottage,lakes to swim in and lovely finnish ladies

abceire

can we all meet up and speak our bad finnish, i m starting to forget my words i ve learnt, and i might not get to speak any until the finnish irish xmas fair in town in december , they sell lots of finnish foods and have a carol service mass in finnish

mickc

Has anyone taken any classes or online courses?

any recommendations? am in galway

thanks

Aard

abceire wrote: »

can we all meet up and speak our bad finnish, i m starting to forget my words i ve learnt, and i might not get to speak any until the finnish irish xmas fair in town in december , they sell lots of finnish foods and have a carol service mass in finnish

Can you tell me when and where this is on? I'd be very interested in sampling some Finnish food .

abceire

Aard wrote: »

Can you tell me when and where this is on? I'd be very interested in sampling some Finnish food .

heres the site you should be able to find the date, its nice friendly atmosphere,and you get to see nearly every finn in dublin haha
http://www.irfinsoc.com/centere.html

this is another good site for anyone thinking of moving to finland,lots of helpful people
http://www.finlandforum.org/

deman

mmmmmmm....... wrote: »

Originally Posted by tnethacker
Hey mates.

Learning the bloody Finnish language is not that difficult as you just pronounce the words and letters as you would pronounce Gaelic (Remember? It's the language you're suppose to speak).

If you guys have any difficulties learning, just ask me anything and I'll hit it with the answers

PS Learning Gaelic is not that difficult as i have learned to pronounce it correctly just after few months of passive learning.

"That's very true, I've found having a good knowledge of Irish has been a big help especially with the sounds of the letters."



Funny because I found having Irish helped me learn Swedish better!!! Strange!

I certainly hope that your Irish and Finnish are better than your English.:D

But I don't agree with you. Finnish is a phonetic language where Irish is anything but. Irish has a huge amount of irregular sounds where Finnish doesn't. So to compare the pronunciation of these languages is ridiculous.

Therefore, the pronunciation of Finnish is the easiest part of the language as it's phonetic.

Sephiroth_dude

Would finnish be harder to learn than say russian,czech,polish?

Aard

I don't know about difficulty, as I know none of the languages you mentioned above. However, Finnish is a member of a completely different language family (Uralic - related, eg, to Hungarian) to those Slavic languages (Indo-European - related to Germanic, Romance, and Celtic languages, Greek, Hindi, and many others). It is generally thought that languages within the same language family are easier to learn. I've studied Japanese, myself, and thought that it was easier than French - it's like learning with a clean slate!

If you're in any way "good" at languages, there is no reason why Finnish should be harder to learn than Russian, Czech, or Polish. Indeed, going by the number of entries in Finnish in Wiktionary, there may well be even more resources online for it.

suomi

Aard wrote: »

I don't know about difficulty, as I know none of the languages you mentioned above. However, Finnish is a member of a completely different language family (Uralic - related, eg, to Hungarian) to those Slavic languages (Indo-European - related to Germanic, Romance, and Celtic languages, Greek, Hindi, and many others). It is generally thought that languages within the same language family are easier to learn. I've studied Japanese, myself, and thought that it was easier than French - it's like learning with a clean slate!

If you're in any way "good" at languages, there is no reason why Finnish should be harder to learn than Russian, Czech, or Polish. Indeed, going by the number of entries in Finnish in Wiktionary, there may well be even more resources online for it.

I agree, Finnish and Russian are completely different. I know people who speak Russian and they say it's pretty easy to learn so I'd say Finnish is harder to learn. But Finnish is just like any other language, it's easy once you get the hang of it.

I think one thing that makes it so difficult and different is that we don't have a lot of prepositions, we use suffixes or whatever they're called. For example, "to a house, in a house, from a house" would translate as "taloon, talossa, talosta". But still, Finnish is just like any other language, once you learn the basic stuff the rest should be easy. Plus the pronunciation is really easy, there shouldn't be any problems learning to actually speak Finnish, it's just the grammar part that's a bit tricky.

deman

And it's a logical language, not like English.

The only "illogical" area that I have come across is the -sta(ä) vs -lta(ä) and -ssa(ä) vs -lla(ä). Nobody has ever been able to explain to me why I cannot say "Minä olen Tamperessa" and I should say "Minä olen Tamperella". I normally can guess which is right though.... at the second attempt usually

suomi

deman wrote: »

And it's a logical language, not like English.

The only "illogical" area that I have come across is the -sta(ä) vs -lta(ä) and -ssa(ä) vs -lla(ä). Nobody has ever been able to explain to me why I cannot say "Minä olen Tamperessa" and I should say "Minä olen Tamperella". I normally can guess which is right though.... at the second attempt usually

Oh yeah, sometimes even I have problems with those and I'm Finnish! They're completely illogical, you just have to remember which version is the right one. Though most of the cities and countries are -ssa or -ssä so you're more likely to get it right if you just don't use the -lla or -llä at all. Oh, if the city has some kind of a nature-related word in it, like -järvi, -niemi, -lahti, -koski, it's always -lla or -llä. Like "Saarijärvellä" or "Rovaniemellä".

abceire

anyone know when the finnish irish society things is on? i ll skip the christmas songs this year and just get me some sausages for sausage soup

deman

abceire wrote: »

anyone know when the finnish irish society things is on? i ll skip the christmas songs this year and just get me some sausages for sausage soup

Do you mean the Irish Finnish Society or the Finnish Irish Society? There is a difference.

**edit**

And please abceire, as this is a language forum, try to use punctuation.

abceire

deman wrote: »

Do you mean the Irish Finnish Society or the Finnish Irish Society? There is a difference.

**edit**

And please abceire, as this is a language forum, try to use punctuation.

I am not so sure which one I mean. I know were it is and all but not sure of the name, it is always on a sunday I know that for sure.
Sorry for the teenage typing, years of none office work.

deman

abceire wrote: »

I am not so sure which one I mean. I know were it is and all but not sure of the name, it is always on a sunday I know that for sure.
Sorry for the teenage typing, years of none office work.

You probably mean the Irish Finnish Society then as the Finnish Irish Society is based here in Finland.

abceire

Thats the one,anybody know when they will have the fair were you can buy the finnish foods in dublin?

Miko80

abceire wrote: »

heres the site you should be able to find the date, its nice friendly atmosphere,and you get to see nearly every finn in dublin haha
http://www.irfinsoc.com/centere.html

this is another good site for anyone thinking of moving to finland,lots of helpful people
http://www.finlandforum.org/

you can also try http://www.finlandlive.info or http://www.infopankki.fi

Sephiroth_dude

Aard wrote: »

I don't know about difficulty, as I know none of the languages you mentioned above. However, Finnish is a member of a completely different language family (Uralic - related, eg, to Hungarian) to those Slavic languages (Indo-European - related to Germanic, Romance, and Celtic languages, Greek, Hindi, and many others). It is generally thought that languages within the same language family are easier to learn. I've studied Japanese, myself, and thought that it was easier than French - it's like learning with a clean slate!

If you're in any way "good" at languages, there is no reason why Finnish should be harder to learn than Russian, Czech, or Polish. Indeed, going by the number of entries in Finnish in Wiktionary, there may well be even more resources online for it.

Interesting,I mite give a bash so.

Ebsis

I´ve never thought that here in Ireland, would be people who would want to learn Finnish.:)

If I can help in anyway with the language, I would be happy to do so!

Aarnikotka

It's interesting to see how many Irish people want to learn Finnish - far more than I would have thought. I think the problem for many English speakers living in Finland (particularly in the Helsinki area) is that the level of English among the natives is improving all the time, thus when an Irish person moves here they speak English and make friends through English. It's quite difficult to decide to change language at some later point during conversations with friends, since it remains easier in English.

I find that many English speakers grasp Finnish to the point of being able to conduct their day-to-day lives in that language (in shops/restaurants etc), but genuine fluency among English speakers here is quite rare.