Module 50/70 oil burner problem

lisij

Hello,
It seems that im experiencing some trouble with my burner, it was working perfectlly, but one day i noticed that my radators are cold... Ive let the air out from each one of them, power on burner again and nothing happened, then ive noticed that i dont hear the burner working, so i went out to have a look at it, removed the panel, read the manual.. The cut off button wasnt lit, so i reseted the thermostat, and still nothing happened, also tryed to press reset button on cut off thingy, burner started to sound like it should start but after shuts off and nothing happens again, i tryed couple of times pressing it, and same thing happened over and over again the burner starts to sound like normal and then switches off....
What could be the problem? Should i call the technician or theres something i can do myself? Oil tank is full

jimmyw

Funny you should say that, as mine (different make with motorised valves) has stopped working too.The lights on the control panel are on showing its on, but the rads are cold and the pump is working.As its bloody raining, I cant go out to check the trip switch:(.

I do recall a similar problem with the same boiler before and I reset an item thats connected into the internals of the boiler (dont know the name)and going onto the oil feed pipe.It seemed to reset it.Yours might be different, but have a look to see

lisij

jimmyw wrote: »

I do recall a similar problem with the same boiler before and I reset an item thats connected into the internals of the boiler (dont know the name)and going onto the oil feed pipe.It seemed to reset it.Yours might be different, but have a look to see

what item, is it a wire? Where it is exactly located? On the front where lock off reset and thermostat buttons are? Or somewhere at the back... Same here, cant look at it cause of the rain

Sounds like it's something with the unit that feeds oil into the boiler (don't know what it's called).
I had a similar problem a couple of years ago, the unit that feeds oil in to the burner jammed up due to dirt in the oil(the fan stopped as well), I had it replaced but kept the oil one which I was able to clean up! and also fitted an in-line oil filter into the pipe from the tank.

lisij

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds like it's something with the unit that feeds oil into the boiler (don't know what it's called).
I had a similar problem a couple of years ago, the unit that feeds oil in to the burner jammed up due to dirt in the oil(the fan stopped as well), I had it replaced but kept the oil one which I was able to clean up! and also fitted an in-line oil filter into the pipe from the tank.

Yeah i thought same thing with the dirt stuck in oil somewhere, any instruction you can give for me to follow? Or i better of calling an expert?

lisij

lisij wrote: »

Yeah i thought same thing with the dirt stuck in oil somewhere, any instruction you can give for me to follow? Or i better of calling an expert?

Unless you know what you're doing, leave this to the technicians who have been trained in working on the burners.

jimmyw

I can only speak about my own one, but I am only going on memory now but it was a copper/brass wire going from a device on the oil feed line to the boiler and it can be reset which did get the boiler going correctly.Its probably a fire preventive safety device. Now it may/may not be the fault, only just saying it worked before on mine.

A plumber will know for sure what it is and will be able to fix it, but in the meantime, its worth a look.

lisij

lads, would some one say what this red thing for? shall i try to twist it or not?

Looks like a pressure relief valve, DON'T turn it, you may cause a pipe burst somewhere.

lisij

Deleted User wrote: »

Looks like a pressure relief valve, DON'T turn it, you may cause a pipe burst somewhere.

Ok thanks, wont be touching this then

jimmyw

The things I have to do for boardies:D.I had to go out in the rain to check mine and yes there is a valve that's onto the feed pipe and going into the boiler (See pics), I pulled it up and pressed the reset button and off she goes purring away.

That red thing looks like the reset button on yours OP, I would say just to press in the black switch or see if it will pull out , not to turn the red knob,

This is the other end of that valve in the boiler. Didn't do anything to this red knob.



The valve itself, pulled up and then press the reset button on the boiler.



overview

lisij

jimmyw wrote: »

The things I have to do for boardies:D.I had to go out in the rain to check mine and yes there is a valve that's onto the feed pipe and going into the boiler (See pics), I pulled it up and pressed the reset button and off she goes purring away.

That red thing looks like the reset button on yours OP, I would say just to press in the black switch or see if it will pull out , not to turn the red knob,

This is the other end of that valve in the boiler. Didn't do anything to this red knob.



The valve itself, pulled up and then press the reset button on the boiler.



overview

sorry for making you going outside in this weather
that black jog isnt a button and you cannot press it on my one, but there is a reset button, it is small sticking out stick just bessides the heat regulator, but pressing it nothing happens
damn, guess im calling an the technician

jimmyw

No you're grand OP:D,I have to do it for myself anyway.The reset button is on the boiler itself.Did you check to see if that valve is on the feed pipe?

I am not saying this is your problem, but it may be. I can see the reset button from your pic.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/59682227@N03/7326545934/in/photostream

Reset button, circled in blue

lisij

jimmyw wrote: »

Did you check to see if that valve is on the feed pipe?

em to be honest i dont see the valve at all near my boiler or outside of it, the only one i see it is near the tank, also there's a filter with it, or at least i think its filter now about the reset button, ive been pressing it million of times already, and like i said in the first post, its starts to make noise for a few seconds, noise is like it will start the burning process, but then switches off and thats it

delta36

We have a Grant Module 50/90 and experienced a very similar problem to yours. Downloaded the manual, tried doing what it said (namely pressing that red reset button) and it did nothing. Turned out there was an air lock in the boiler, we took off the red cover, turned a valve with an alan key, and and a fair amount of air, with a bit of kerosene, bubbled out, closed back the valve, and the heating started working again.

The air lock was caused by the fact that we ran out of oil without realising and kept the heat on, and even once the tank was full we still had to let the air out of the boiler. I can go out and grab a picture of the exact part we opened if that would help you?

The oil filter looks a bit line this.


and the fire valve looks like this.

these items could be anywhere in the pipeline between the burner and the tank, but usually the filter is near the tank and the fire valve is near the burner, in the event of a fire it shuts off oil to the burner, check that it's open.

lisij

delta36 wrote: »

The air lock was caused by the fact that we ran out of oil without realising and kept the heat on, and even once the tank was full we still had to let the air out of the boiler. I can go out and grab a picture of the exact part we opened if that would help you?

oh please do, really want to fix this thing would there be alot of mess after all the air and oil comes loose? any safety precautions?

lisij

Deleted User wrote: »

The oil filter looks a bit line this.

yeah thats is what it looks like besides the tank

and the fire valve looks like this.

these items could be anywhere in the pipeline between the burner and the tank, but usually the filter is near the tank and the fire valve is near the burner, in the event of a fire it shuts off oil to the burner, check that it's open.

i cant seem to locate this thing anywhere

Try this link.
http://www.howtomendit.com/answers.php?id=113171

delta36

I'll throw this up for you as well lisij, went out and took photos:

First off for reference this is the outside, we removed the red cover and had to loosen/remove two screws which are highlighted in yellow.


You can now see the valve on the left hand side, circled in yellow.


And a close up of the valve because I wasn't sure how clear the photos would be.


We didn't have too much of a mess, we unscrewed that valve a fair number of turns, but didn't take it off completely (counting the number of times you turn it so you can put it back as is might help) and had some tissue around it and a plastic cup underneath to collect any run off. Not a whole lot spilled out, but just in case your problem isn't actually due to an airlock, it's best to be prepared. We noticed immediately that air was coming out as bubbles started to form around the valve. As for safety precautions, don't smoke near it! :pac: But in all honesty, if you have a pair of rubber gloves, wear them, because apparently kerosene isn't fantastic for your skin. Hope this helps, and was clear, good luck!

jimmyw

lisij wrote: »

em to be honest i dont see the valve at all near my boiler or outside of it, the only one i see it is near the tank, also there's a filter with it, or at least i think its filter now about the reset button, ive been pressing it million of times already, and like i said in the first post, its starts to make noise for a few seconds, noise is like it will start the burning process, but then switches off and thats it

Yes that's basicly what happened to me too.Is that brown pipe in your pic OP that is connected to the red item you mentioned in your previous posts connected to the feed from your tank? If it is then I would say that this is the equivalent of the valve I mentioned only that yours is in a different location and you might try to see if it can be moved anyway, in or out (fire valve was mentioned before).

lisij

delta36 wrote: »

I'll throw this up for you as well lisij, went out and took photos:

First off for reference this is the outside, we removed the red cover and had to loosen/remove two screws which are highlighted in yellow.


You can now see the valve on the left hand side, circled in yellow.


And a close up of the valve because I wasn't sure how clear the photos would be.


We didn't have too much of a mess, we unscrewed that valve a fair number of turns, but didn't take it off completely (counting the number of times you turn it so you can put it back as is might help) and had some tissue around it and a plastic cup underneath to collect any run off. Not a whole lot spilled out, but just in case your problem isn't actually due to an airlock, it's best to be prepared. We noticed immediately that air was coming out as bubbles started to form around the valve. As for safety precautions, don't smoke near it! :pac: But in all honesty, if you have a pair of rubber gloves, wear them, because apparently kerosene isn't fantastic for your skin. Hope this helps, and was clear, good luck!

Ok, tryed this method, some small amount of oil came out, and seen some bubbles but nothing major, not even sure there shoul alot, anyways, nothing worked, the burner still havnt started

delta36

lisij wrote: »

Ok, tryed this method, some small amount of oil came out, and seen some bubbles but nothing major, not even sure there shoul alot, anyways, nothing worked, the burner still havnt started

Did you press the reset button after doing that?

lisij

jimmyw wrote: »

Yes that's basicly what happened to me too.Is that brown pipe in your pic OP that is connected to the red item you mentioned in your previous posts connected to the feed from your tank? If it is then I would say that this is the equivalent of the valve I mentioned only that yours is in a different location and you might try to see if it can be moved anyway, in or out (fire valve was mentioned before).

As for that pipe, it is not connected to anything, its a pipe with one end connected to te burner (red thingy) and other end is free like it isnot connected to anything, so i pressume it is nothintog to do with my situation i guess... Any other suggestion lads?

lisij

delta36 wrote: »

Did you press the reset button after doing that?

Yeap, tryed this 2 times, let the valve run with cerosine, screw it back pressed the button, unscrewed the valve again pressed the button again, nothing

delta36

lisij wrote: »

Yeap, tryed this 2 times, let the valve run with cerosine, srew it back pressed thenutton, unsrewd the valve again pressed the button again, nothing

Damn, that sucks, sounded like you were having the exact same problem we did, obviously not! Hope you can get this sorted!

Sounds more like a blocked jet at this stage, time to call in the experts!

lisij

ok this might be the silly question, but which way should the valve be turned? is it the right way in the picture?

lisij

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds more like a blocked jet at this stage, time to call in the experts!

i think so too, oh well, time to call my landlord

lisij

lisij wrote: »

ok this might be the silly question, but which way should the valve be turned? is it the right way in the picture?

Yes that's correct, it's Open.

lisij

delta36 wrote: »

Damn, that sucks, sounded like you were having the exact same problem we did, obviously not! Hope you can get this sorted!

thank for all the help, and sorry again for all the hassle

lisij

Thanx everyone for all your help, ill see what the plumber/engenier has to say about my problem asa he gets here and ill post the conclusion here

jimmyw

My guess is the fire valve has tripped like what happened to my boiler, only yours is in a different location.Mine tripped as I mentioned before for no apparent reason (no fire ) twice.Once last year and yesterday.

What I don't understand is the other side of the valve thats connected with the copper/brass wire with the sensor or whatever it is is only draped over the hot water pipe as you can see in my pic.However that can sense fire, I dont know and what made it trip?

jimmyw

Deleted User wrote: »

the fire valve is near the burner, in the event of a fire it shuts off oil to the burner, check that it's open.

Yes that's what I was trying to tell the OP. That's what happened to my boiler

lisij

ok, heres an update.. i was on my holiday for 2 weeks, and today the technicians fixed the burner, the problem was with the pump, it some how locked so they brought a new one and replaced it, now everything is working as it should, thank god thanx everyone again for your help

jimmyw

I assume that if the pump was not working, that the heat from the boiler was not carried away and so overheated and tripped out?

You got it sorted anyhow. I believe the pump can be changed by just a screw on each side of the pump to shut off the water, no need to remove any pipes?

lisij

jimmyw wrote: »

I assume that if the pump was not working, that the heat from the boiler was not carried away and so overheated and tripped out?

You got it sorted anyhow. I believe the pump can be changed by just a screw on each side of the pump to shut off the water, no need to remove any pipes?

I havnt asked about how technicaliclally it happened, but they just replaced the pump by unscrewing it from the burner and disconecting the oil intake, then iserted the new one and connected the oil intake, that was it

DGOBS

Hope if the fuel pump was changed, from seizing, that the pump was opened and checked for water/debris damage, the inline oil filters were all checked and cleaned/replaced, and the oil storage tank was checked for sludge and water buildup (water removed and tank cleaned as required) if not you may soon need another pump!!

lisij

DGOBS wrote: »

Hope if the fuel pump was changed, from seizing, that the pump was opened and checked for water/debris damage, the inline oil filters were all checked and cleaned/replaced, and the oil storage tank was checked for sludge and water buildup (water removed and tank cleaned as required) if not you may soon need another pump!!

Oh, i dont know if they did any of that, but i think they did, warent standing besides theirs back to be honest to check on them, anyways, my lanlord called them, and he payed all the expenses so im not to worry about this, if something brakes up again, its only my lanlords fault for hireing lousy techincians

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Sounds like it's something with the unit that feeds oil into the boiler (don't know what it's called).
I had a similar problem a couple of years ago, the unit that feeds oil in to the burner jammed up due to dirt in the oil(the fan stopped as well), I had it replaced but kept the oil one which I was able to clean up! and also fitted an in-line oil filter into the pipe from the tank.

DGOBS wrote: »

Hope if the fuel pump was changed, from seizing, that the pump was opened and checked for water/debris damage, the inline oil filters were all checked and cleaned/replaced, and the oil storage tank was checked for sludge and water buildup (water removed and tank cleaned as required) if not you may soon need another pump!!

Exactly the same thing happened to me, the guy wasn't prepared to strip it down to clean it, he just asked me to get a replacement.

It took me ten minutes to sort out the old one, so now I have a working spare.