How would you feel about a cashless society?

mike65

Just thought I'd bump this in the wake of the Ulster Bank farrago, anyone fancy being reliant on software controlled systems to pay?

donegal_road

what will the army do when all the cash runs cease to be?

gaffer91

mike65 wrote: »

Just thought I'd bump this in the wake of the Ulster Bank farrago, anyone fancy being reliant on software controlled systems to pay?

Not looking so good for the pro cashless posters. (He says, gleefully):pac:

The Gride

mike65 wrote: »

Just thought I'd bump this in the wake of the Ulster Bank farrago, anyone fancy being reliant on software controlled systems to pay?

I met a woman at Ulster Bank last night in distress. She could not get any money out and had no petrol in her car or food to feed her kids. Its a scandal !! I think it will be a BIG NO to cashless society.

4.legs.good

If anyone here ever had the "pleasure" of dealing with the likes of PayPal then you would understand as to why electronic/cashless society would be bad

Jonny7

Where I am in Europe I can live cashless. It's been this way for almost a decade and people just choose to either use cash or cashless. It's just the best of both worlds really.

donegal_road

I was living in Toronto practically without cash for almost 6 months. I used either my debit arc or credit card. I would make the occasional small purchase with cash.

jmayo

gaffer91 wrote: »

In short, I think that cash is freedom, and we should never let our government or banks try to take it away from us. What do you think?

Well Ulster Bank have done their best over the last week to introduce the cashless society.

Sindri wrote: »

Electronic transactions of money like M-Pesa are where things are going.

Just not to RBS/Ulster though.

Jonny7 wrote: »

Where I am in Europe I can live cashless. It's been this way for almost a decade and people just choose to either use cash or cashless. It's just the best of both worlds really.

Are you in Greece ?

Gbear

A minor point - is anyone actually taking all their money out of the bank because cashlessness has now proven itself unworkable because of the Ulster bank situation?

I don't really think so.

This entire thread has been a red herring from the start. There are of course issues with technology but we're already beholden to it and technological progress continues unabated.

usernamegoes

mike65 wrote: »

Just thought I'd bump this in the wake of the Ulster Bank farrago, anyone fancy being reliant on software controlled systems to pay?

You're assuming a cashless society would be based upon a central authority that could break a la Ulster Bank. There are examples of p2p currencies which do not require this and do not stop working if there is an error in the bank.

weusecoins.com

Shea O'Meara

A cashless society won't improve anybodys lot and will not reduce crime be it muggings or bribery.

Money can be just as easily sent to the wrong account or a crooked politician's account in his Cats name. Your account can be billed incorrectly for years. A mugger will quite happily settle for your watch...or cards which can be sold on to other tech savvy hoods. Direct debit bills which 'accidently' take double the monthly payment will only credit the coming month rather than reimburse your account, (which has happened).

We lose another freedom. If all our monetary transactions are within the control of our chosen bank, (is there really more than one bank anyway?) they may charge us a fee per transaction. And we've no option but to pay as we'll never see the hard cash anyway, we'll not have the option to choose to hold on to it and....pay in cash.
A cashless society would be 100% great for everybody except the average tax paying punter. Imagine a fee added to every move you make, be it simply checking your account balance or buying a pint of milk?
Not to mention all the interest the bank will make with all that money, you use to live on, sitting in their accounts which they use to dabble on the markets making them a profit, on top of the charges you incur for the privalege.

Pros: More of a streamline, less jangley sounding fit to your clothing?

femur61

Shea O'Meara wrote: »

A cashless society won't improve anybodys lot and will not reduce crime be it muggings or bribery.

Money can be just as easily sent to the wrong account or a crooked politician's account in his Cats name. Your account can be billed incorrectly for years. A mugger will quite happily settle for your watch...or cards which can be sold on to other tech savvy hoods. Direct debit bills which 'accidently' take double the monthly payment will only credit the coming month rather than reimburse your account, (which has happened).

We lose another freedom. If all our monetary transactions are within the control of our chosen bank, (is there really more than one bank anyway?) they may charge us a fee per transaction. And we've no option but to pay as we'll never see the hard cash anyway, we'll not have the option to choose to hold on to it and....pay in cash.
A cashless society would be 100% great for everybody except the average tax paying punter. Imagine a fee added to every move you make, be it simply checking your account balance or buying a pint of milk?
Not to mention all the interest the bank will make with all that money, you use to live on, sitting in their accounts which they use to dabble on the markets making them a profit, on top of the charges you incur for the privalege.

Pros: More of a streamline, less jangley sounding fit to your clothing?

But apparantly most of Europe works on this basis. An Austrian guy is in his mid 60s says he never uses cash, if he wants to give you money you will give him your bank account and the money will be transfered. The fiasco with Ulser bank this week will show you how vulnerable machines are though.

MrReynholm

My biggest concern with moving to a cashless society is the protection of the data created and maintained when purchases are made.

For clarification on what I mean, have a read of this article from a data mining CEO, someone who knows both how data is currently being used and abused and the potential it has in the future for further abuse. http://www.forbes.com/sites/kashmirhill/2012/06/15/data-mining-ceo-says-he-pays-for-burgers-in-cash-to-avoid-junk-food-purchases-being-tracked/

Data, big data, is big money and I don't want to be backed into a situation where I have to create trackable data just because someone tells me I've no other choice.

Run_to_da_hills

'As if the current methods of evaporating privacy and pushing a world toward the Cashless Society were not moving fast enough, Facebook is now developing and beta testing an app that would allow users to “pay their utility bills, balance their checkbooks, and transfer money at the same time they upload vacation photos to the site for friends to see.”

Essentially, the new application which is currently in beta phase with the Commonwealth Bank of Australia, allows for interactions regarding banking and financial services over alleged secure and private connections.'

http://tech.fortune.cnn.com/2012/07/10/facebook-online-banking/

Solair

After the RBS / Ulster Bank fiasco, I don't think a cashless society's going to happen any time soon.

Also, there's currently nothing in it for the consumer other than hefty banking fees to do something that was previously free.

Carrying a few quid in your wallet isn't THAT much of an inconvenience.

A lot of people wouldn't be too happy with the idea of an antique mainframe controlling every aspect of your money.

Run_to_da_hills

"With Chase Person-to-Person QuickPay you can send money directly to anyone's checking account. All you need is their email address or mobile number".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iewoNib2Xvc

PRAF

Just read the 1st and last page of this thread but looks like I'm going to buck the trend here. I'd be all in favour of an increase in the use of credit cards, debit cards, online transactions, etc. I've recently got a card from my bank that allows you to swipe for small transactions (less than 15 quid). I don't think many (or any) shops have it setup yet but its only a matter of time.

Cash is great, and will always form part of the payments system. However it is also relatively easy to steal and largely untraceable. The people who would stand to lose the most without cash would be the criminal gangs, armed robbers, counterfeiters, drug dealers, tax cheats, and brown envelope loving politicians.

As well as that, cash is very unhygienic and you can never be too sure of where some scanger has been keeping his 50 euro notes

Of course, with electronic payments, you have a whole other set of problems - cyber criminals, IT systems outages (e.g. Ulster Bank), big brother watching every transaction you make, etc! There is no perfect system I suppose.

PRAF

Solair wrote: »

After the RBS / Ulster Bank fiasco, I don't think a cashless society's going to happen any time soon.

Also, there's currently nothing in it for the consumer other than hefty banking fees to do something that was previously free.

Carrying a few quid in your wallet isn't THAT much of an inconvenience.

A lot of people wouldn't be too happy with the idea of an antique mainframe controlling every aspect of your money.

Valid points here and I agree that a cashless society is not going to happen any time soon.

However, lets face it, handling cash is not cheap and is not risk free. From the shop that has to employ security guards, to the lost takings due to petty fraud, to the major armed robberies, increases in insurance premiums due to large volumes of cash handling, to the cash falling out of your wallet / pocket etc. All of this is built into the end prices we pay for goods and services in this country.

The difference seems to be that businesses seem happy to absorb the cost of cash handling while they insist on charging extra for electronic payments.

Run_to_da_hills

"A chip-and-pin Visa card for children as young as 12 has been launched.
The Visa CitizenCard also acts as identification, displaying a child’s date of birth and photograph.

Parents can load the card – which costs £15 to buy – with between £10 and £5,000 and can keep track of how the money is being spent. It can be used as a payment card in shops or online but cannot be used as a credit card".

................And it will be the chip under the skin next for all of us if we do not stop the banks ripping into our children

http://www.citizencard.com/