If Atheists can believe in the supernatural, how can they rule out there being a God?

Kidchameleon

Question:

If Atheists can believe in the supernatural, how can they rule out there being a God?

This was a question asked in another thread but was not given the chance to be discussed. I feel it is an interesting question and would like to hear peoples opinion on it.

Discuss...

xerces

Atheism by definition means non belief in god/s. It is a response to theism.

UDP

My understanding is that most atheists don't rule out the possibility of their being a god.

My own position as an atheist is that I see no evidence for a god thus find it highly unlikely that there is but I cannot rule out the possibility 100%.

Also Atheism relates to belief in a deity - nothing else.

It depends on the reasons they use to reach their non-belief in God as well as.

In fact most atheists who also do not believe in anything supernatural do not "rule out" God at all, rather we believe that the is nothing to support the existence of one. An atheist could just believe that while there isn't such evidence for a god, there is for some other supernatural phenomenon.

Similarly I think the reasons why people who believe in God but don't believe in other supernatural stuff are more interesting (and more self contradictory).

Turtwig

Atheism isn't about possibilities it's about belief or the lack of belief.

xerces

Yeah to expand on my initial response, my position is basically the same as UDP's:

UDP wrote: »

My own position as an atheist is that I see no evidence for a god thus find it highly unlikely that there is but I cannot rule out the possibility 100%.

I also don't believe in anything else supernatural for the same reasons, but there are atheists who do, although I don't see why.

Dades

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If Atheists can believe in the supernatural, how can they rule out there being a God?

Kidchameleon, you've got some good answers showing how atheists don't "rule out" anything. I hope we can now take that as a given and move forward. (Sorry, I've seen too many recent threads where the OP ignores responses to keep beating their drum...)

Ellis Dee

I consider myself an atheist, but don't completely rule out the possibility that there is some kind of supernatural entity, be that the sky fairy, the great universal spirit or the flying spaghetti monster, or whatever you're having yourself. I am now and have always been prepared to accept the existence of such an entity if anyone can provide even a scintilla of proof of that existence.:)

But I'm not holding my breath until someone does.:rolleyes::rolleyes:

MagicMarker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Discuss...

Why? Surely if someone spends more than 3 seconds thinking about the question the answer becomes obvious?

Zombrex

Kidchameleon wrote: »

If Atheists can believe in the supernatural, how can they rule out there being a God?

Because one would assume that just because something is supernatural it doesn't mean it will also be nonsensical.

fitz0

UDP wrote: »

My understanding is that most atheists don't rule out the possibility of their being a god.

No I don't rule out my being a god. In fact the big fella (not Collins but close) remarked similar when first man ate apples.

Gen 3:22

And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Grammar matters.

Logical Fallacy

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Question:

If Atheists can believe in the supernatural, how can they rule out there being a God?

This was a question asked in another thread but was not given the chance to be discussed. I feel it is an interesting question and would like to hear peoples opinion on it.

Discuss...

You'd need to ask an Atheist who believes in the supernatural, surely? Anyone who posts in this thread may not believe in the supernatural so are just hypothesizing.

joseph brand

I'm confused.

Are there Atheists who do believe in the supernatural? The idea that you would have to believe in it, makes it akin to religious belief. Unless someone thinks they saw a ghost, or a very good illusionist, who has them pondering whether there is such a thing as 'magic'.

Kidchameleon

Dades wrote: »

Kidchameleon, you've got some good answers showing how atheists don't "rule out" anything. I hope we can now take that as a given and move forward. (Sorry, I've seen too many recent threads where the OP ignores responses to keep beating their drum...)

Your jumping the gun a bit there Dades. At least wait and see if im going to be an ass. I'm here to learn and discuss things with people. A bit hard on this forum with the blatant double standard of moderation that is apparent.

Kidchameleon

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why? Surely if someone spends more than 3 seconds thinking about the question the answer becomes obvious?

Well its not obvious to me, hence the thread.

MagicMarker

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well its not obvious to me, hence the thread.

Well have the first few responses cleared it up for you?

Zombrex

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well its not obvious to me

Really?

Do you believe in anything supernatural? If so does that mean you therefore believe in everything supernatural? I would imagine not.

Coriolanus

joseph brand wrote: »

I'm confused.

Are there Atheists who do believe in the supernatural? The idea that you would have to believe in it, makes it akin to religious belief. Unless someone thinks they saw a ghost, or a very good illusionist, who has them pondering whether there is such a thing as 'magic'.

My pseudo sister in law is an atheist, but believes in ghosts at the very least. I suspect she also has a softness for psychics and astrology.
She doesn't try to rationalize it. She just doesn't believe in God(s) but thinks that something capable of manifestation survives death.

And as for the OP, I imagine it's pretty simple. Supernatural beliefs, be they in a God, ghosts, UFOs or anything else, aren't a closed set. You can believe none, some, or all. Certainly there does seem to be a likelihood that if you beleive in one, you'll believe in others, but that's just incidental.

Talking to Christians, I'm often told that they have had a personal experience of God, and that's why they believe. I've never spoken face to face with someone claiming an interaction with a UFO but I've seen interviews and they seem just as heartfelt. So, the theist has experienced something and interprets it as a proof of Gods existence, and the ufo witness experiences something else and interprets it as proof of aliens existence.

Dades

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your jumping the gun a bit there Dades. At least wait and see if im going to be an ass. I'm here to learn and discuss things with people. A bit hard on this forum with the blatant double standard of moderation that is apparent.

Jumping the gun? I never suggested you were out of line (despite a "discuss" opening post that is *never* a good start.)

Feel free to respond to any of the actual replies to your question at any time though.

robindch

^^^ To add to the above, if you're here to learn, then the first two things you should check out are the general boards.ie terms and conditions and the A+A forum charter. If any points remain unclear concerning forum etiquette following this, then please feel free to PM the forum moderators who'll be happy to help out.

Whinging about forum moderation, on the other hand, is best kept for private messages or the feedback forum.

endacl

Kidchameleon wrote: »

MagicMarker wrote: »

Why? Surely if someone spends more than 3 seconds thinking about the question the answer becomes obvious?

Well its not obvious to me, hence the thread.

I'd imagine it probably isn't obvious to a religious way of thinking.

Atheism, despite not being a religion (to reference the other thread), is a broad church (to ironically borrow a figure of speech).

I'm sure there are many reasons why people come to the realisation that there is no god. As many reasons as there are realisations I would suspect.

For me, if it helps answer your question, any possibility of belief in a deity was simply grown out of. God dissipated with the tooth fairy and Santa Claus.

No room for the supernatural either. Unexplained doesn't equal inexplicable. Only speaking for myself of course. If somebody else identifies as atheist, but still posts a letter to the north pole each December, I've no problem with that.

Hope this helps.

endacl

Oh. Further clarification. I don't rule it out. I just don't care. I've no god shaped hole to fill, so I don't try to fill it. I remain open to correction in this regard. As I remain open to Santa Claus etc. Santa Claus would be kinda cool though.

Gbear

You should ask followers of the Shinto religion (is there a Japanese forum?).

They are atheists who do not believe in any deities however they follow a religion which involves (i think), ancestor worship, reincarnation, general spirtuality and that sort of thing.

I think it's why Japan is very conspicuous in graphs displaying the % of atheism by country.


Generally speaking, however, atheists who come to atheism as a result of their method of thought being rational empiricism are also skeptics, non-spiritual, don't believe in astrology - they're all a result of the kind of logic they employ.

Edit: Bloody hell.. these things are springing up like mushrooms.

Kidchameleon

robindch wrote: »

^^^ To add to the above, if you're here to learn, then the first two things you should check out are the general boards.ie terms and conditions and the A+A forum charter. If any points remain unclear concerning forum etiquette following this, then please feel free to PM the forum moderators who'll be happy to help out.

Whinging about forum moderation, on the other hand, is best kept for private messages or the feedback forum.

I wish everyone here would read the charter, I'm not speaking about anyone in particular :rolleyes:

robindch

Kidchameleon wrote: »

I wish everyone here would read the charter [...]

If you feel that some poster is violating the charter, then report the post by clicking on the little warning triangle icon that's just to the right of the text panel. The forum moderators will receive the report and will take whatever action they deem necessary, up to and including a permanent forum ban.

kylith

If you're going to ask how atheists who believe in the superanatural rule out gods you also need to ask how people who believe in gods can rule out ghosts, and how people who believe in ghosts can rule out fairies. believing in X doesn't automatically mean you believe in Y.

Sindri

It depends on the circumstance of the supernatural phenomenon, but there would be other reasons for that. Also a "God" and whatever may fit the criterion of a deity does not necessarily have to be supernatural.

Personally while I'd hold the possibility that something supernatural could exist or occur, though I'd question the validity of whatever minor speculation I may have on whatever matter I may consider to be supernatural; as the definition of supernatural I would not be able to know conclusively (or as near to conclusively as possible).

Otacon

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Your jumping the gun a bit there Dades. At least wait and see if im going to be an ass. I'm here to learn and discuss things with people. A bit hard on this forum with the blatant double standard of moderation that is apparent.

Have we waited long enough? :pac:

Banbh

At least wait and see if im going to be an ass.

MisterEpicurus

Personally, I don't understand how anyone can believe in anything supernatural if they are an atheist.

Both claims have equally scant evidence and both are human constructions trying to explain phenomena around.

I think supernatural-believing atheists should remain consistent and feck the whole lot.

Kidchameleon

Otacon wrote: »

Have we waited long enough? :pac:

Well have I been an ass yet?

endacl

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Personally, I don't understand how anyone can believe in anything supernatural if they are an atheist.

Both claims have equally scant evidence and both are human constructions trying to explain phenomena around.

I think supernatural-believing atheists should remain consistent and feck the whole lot.

Well, people who believe in fairies (atheist or otherwise) tend not to go around telling other people how to act, think and live their lives, based on a belief in fairies.

Religious belief on the other hand, seems all too often to come complete with a license to judge. Which has led to religious mumbo-jumbo affecting the lives of everybody, religious or not. In no particular order, we have:

Magdalene laundries, contraception illegal in Ireland till 1978 (and even then practically impossible to access), gay marriage blocked, stoning to death, crashing airplanes into buildings, Mel Gibson (except for the Lethal Weapon movies, they were cool), no pints on Good (allegedly, I've yet to be convinced) Friday, The Life of Brian banned, the Lord's Resistance Army, Dana, ritual mutilation of infant boys, ritual mutilation of teenage girls, idiots knocking on your door looking to talk about a 2000 year old zombie carpenter....

The list could go on and on. And on some more. So in innumerable ways, some trivial, some shockingly un-trivial, my life, your life, and the life of a huge majority of people alive today has been, and is, affected by religion. It shouldn't be.

While there is a logical inconsistency, at least a belief in fairies is mostly harmless. TBH, if religion was also mostly harmless, I wouldn't bother posting here. If it was just a case of scoring semantic points and having a bit of craic and debate, I'd be over in Politics or Economics right now. And I suspect many regular posters might feel similarly.

MisterEpicurus

MisterEpicurus wrote: »

Personally, I don't understand how anyone can believe in anything supernatural if they are an atheist.

Both claims have equally scant evidence and both are human constructions trying to explain phenomena around.

I think supernatural-believing atheists should remain consistent and feck the whole lot.

Well it really depends on how they arrived at their atheism. It could be that they did so from the fact that a god runs into the problem of evil, which does not rely on evidence based logic (and is fairly weak on it's own IMO.)

Similarly it could just be a case that the person had never bought into the idea of God, but had run into other supernatural claims first, therefore dismissing the idea of god like religious do with other versions of god.

Or it could be genuinely a case of bad logic, such as people in authority use religion against the masses therefore it's not true. I think that Bill Maher is an example of this. He's an atheist, but he holds some very silly, illogical stances about science and medicine.

endacl

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well have I been an ass yet?

Define 'Ass'?

You posted a question to stimulate a discussion, and then barely engaged.

Would that count?

Kidchameleon

endacl wrote: »

Kidchameleon wrote: »

Well have I been an ass yet?

Define 'Ass'?

You posted a question to stimulate a discussion, and then barely engaged.

Would that count?

No

MrPudding

Kidchameleon wrote: »

No

On this forum it kind of does.

MrP

Dades

Kidchameleon, the next time you post in this forum - that post better have some substance.

Worthless thread closed.