Tendai Mtawarira

Hagz

Worth a watch for anyone who hasn't seen it. The Beast is becoming renowned for it now.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0hOxFH3aC8

Fishooks12

Overrated prop but great strength shown there. One wonders if his communication could have been better with the lock tho

Taco Corp

That's nuts. He'll drop someone eventually and they'll drop head first into the ground

sock puppet

Fishooks12 wrote: »

One wonders if his communication could have been better with the lock tho

Their restarts were terrible all game at the weekend.

Scioch

Thats some atrocious lifting. Great strength and all but dangerous and stupid.

Morf

Fair play to Bekker for helping to bring Bresler back to ground in the first clip.

RoundBox11

Thats crazy. Its irresponsible coaching to allow that to happen. Theres no reason they couldnt take those the traditional way. The amount of time and effort it takes to get the ball off the lock while preventing him from falling on his head by flipping him back is probably more time and energy consuming than if they did it the normal way.

Ive seen Marcus Horan lift DOC on his own before, id say a lot of props could do it. They're just not stupid enough to risk a team-mates neck!

Podge_irl

They appear to be doing that almost on purpose, which is ****ing stupid.

errlloyd

I don't even buy that its that hard. I'd say Church could lift one of the lads like that too, but it's not a good idea so we don't do it.

Like sure that guy is about 110 kilos, but he's jumping too, I'd expect most pros can lift their own body weight.

Naomi00

That's crazy...if they fell back fast enough they'd knock him off his feet too.

Chucky the tree

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't even buy that its that hard. I'd say Church could lift one of the lads like that too, but it's not a good idea so we don't do it.

Like sure that guy is about 110 kilos, but he's jumping too, I'd expect most pros can lift their own body weight.

Lifting him is the easy part. It's being able to keep hold of him when he tilts back and Mtawarira has to also shift his weight and basically use his arm strength and finger stength that is incredible impressive.

Blut2

errlloyd wrote: »

I don't even buy that its that hard. I'd say Church could lift one of the lads like that too, but it's not a good idea so we don't do it.

Like sure that guy is about 110 kilos, but he's jumping too, I'd expect most pros can lift their own body weight.

Its not the lifting him up there, its the keeping him stable/putting him down. Hes doing something comparable to a 110KG tricep pulldown, extremely impressive.

But yeah highly dangerous, sooner or later someones gonna land on their head.

pickarooney

I can't see the advantage of doing this. Why not just position themselves better under the ball so the lock doesn't have to angle himself back?

GerM

pickarooney wrote: »

I can't see the advantage of doing this. Why not just position themselves better under the ball so the lock doesn't have to angle himself back?

The lock should be the one positioning as he's the one making the catch. Looks like poor communication between jumper and lifter. A moving jump is very difficult to control. Mtawarira is impressively powerful in his lifting but it's unnecessarily dangerous. If you're going to hoist someone up to that height on your own, you need to be solid as a rock which he's not.

Dravokivich

Blut2 wrote: »

Its not the lifting him up there, its the keeping him stable/putting him down. Hes doing something comparable to a 110KG tricep pulldown, extremely impressive.

But yeah highly dangerous, sooner or later someones gonna land on their head.

No he isn't.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWicW-fA3Hw

If you want to compare weights exercises it's like the tension part of a shoulder press. He appears to have his arm's very straight. Is he locking and holding that tension with his elbows?

Chucky the tree wrote: »

Lifting him is the easy part. It's being able to keep hold of him when he tilts back and Mtawarira has to also shift his weight and basically use his arm strength and finger stength that is incredible impressive.

Would've though it was mainly shoulders myself. Never seen a reference to finger strength before, isn't that usually just mentioned as grip?

Chucky the tree

Dravokivich wrote: »

Would've though it was mainly shoulders myself. Never seen a reference to finger strength before, isn't that usually just mentioned as grip?

Probably, I think finger strength is better though. You can have a good grip of something but not have the strength to hold onto it.

irishbucsfan

We did a drill for finger strength involving buckets if water before. Helps in the breakdown a lot supposedly

Robbo

Is it just me or is there far too much faith being put into the stitching and fabric of the shorts in question?

RoundBox11

Bouldering and general rock climbing is the ultimate training for finger strength. You wont see any rugby teams doing it tho obviously :P

Grid.

Fantastic strength....but definite broken neck if he lets someone fall!

locum-motion

It's irresponsible and dangerous. He is holding them beneath their own centre of gravity, so they're inherently unstable in the air and that is why they're tipping over.

Yes, the strength involved is impressive, but as others have said, sooner or later he'll drop someone on their head.

If he's going to lift them to that height by the shorts, then there should be someone in front as well, holding/lifting by the knees, as there would be in a lineout.

irishbucsfan

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We did a drill for finger strength involving buckets if water before. Helps in the breakdown a lot supposedly

gouging bastards! :pac:

Blut2

Dravokivich wrote: »

No he isn't.

[...]

I'm still gonna maintain its taking a lot of tricep power. Hes effectively doing this http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/DBTriExt.html with a 110kg man instead of a dumbbell as he pulls Daniel back to ground.

Blut2

Blut2 wrote: »

I'm still gonna maintain its taking a lot of tricep power. Hes effectively doing this http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/DBTriExt.html with a 110kg man instead of a dumbbell as he pulls Daniel back to ground.

except he's not at all. Look at the tension in the elbows, he never breaks the lock once...

errlloyd

Nah, I still think its over rated.

Like he holds them up for a few seconds with a locked arm, and he gets them down pretty quick smart. I am 100% sure most props who have played for the Irish team in the last couple of months could do it if they wanted to

Morf

errlloyd wrote: »

Nah, I still think its over rated.

Like he holds them up for a few seconds with a locked arm, and he gets them down pretty quick smart. I am 100% sure most props who have played for the Irish team in the last couple of months could do it if they wanted to

And stay upright once the other players weight and momentum is pulling him backwards? Lifting isn't the impressive feat, it's the manner in which he rescues the situation.

The Aussie

irishbucsfan wrote: »

We did a drill for finger strength involving buckets if water before. Helps in the breakdown a lot supposedly

Back when i was playing, we just went and did a decent weeks work

Dravokivich

Blut2 wrote: »

I'm still gonna maintain its taking a lot of tricep power. Hes effectively doing this http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/Triceps/DBTriExt.html with a 110kg man instead of a dumbbell as he pulls Daniel back to ground.

He's using biceps when bringing the prop back down.

Edit:
Biceps in the second clip.
In the first clip he seems to turn his body and someone else grabs the guy on the way down.

fitz

Regardless of what it takes to do it, he's one torn jersey away from someone breaking their neck. Completely irresponsible from all involved, including the coaches.

d-gal

Both incidents look like the jumpers fault. Both literally leap backwards at it.
As an S&C coach I can tell you that is some serious core and leg strength to hold his position. How he doesn't topple with him is amazing.
Oh and finger strength?! WTF! Decent grip strength but nothing not expected.

Naomi00

d-gal wrote: »

Both incidents look like the jumpers fault. Both literally leap backwards at it.

From the video it looks like they both planned it.

Iompair

To get lifts like that its more timing then strength, strength helps obviously but its all in the timing of the jump from the guy who's in the air, if thats out then you'll never lift someone over your head like that, if you get it right they just float up and once they're up there the base just locks out and could hold them there all day.

Agree with the other posters though, dangerous to do a one man lift on a rugby pitch, one mistimed tackle or ripped shorts away from a bad accident.

danthefan

John Hayes would be hailed a world class lifting life saving hero if it were him.

totallegend

This is obviously a definite tactic and it's one of the most dangerous things I've seen on a pitch in a while; that is a broken neck waiting to happen.

Tox56

Whatever about his strength, what about the courage/stupidity of the jumpers, fully aware of what is going to happen..

trackguy

I'm sure they practice it but once someone bumps into The Beast it could go very wrong. It wouldn't exactly kill them to have another lifter would it?

WeeBushy

It is rather dangerous and not something to copy, but they big boys can decide to do it or not and it is rather entertaining so I don't have a problem with it.

Guy:Incognito

Somethign as simple as an opposition player not slowing down in tiem and bumping in to them could end up crippling the catcher. Stupid stuff imo.

Shelflife

As a ref, I'd be blowing up as soon as the catcher tips over. It's dangerous and stupid and it's the lifters duty to bring him down safely.
Last thing you want is underage players trying out this move.
First time I'd restart with a scrum and a warning, next time it would be a pen for dangerous play.

WeeBushy

Shelflife wrote: »

As a ref, I'd be blowing up as soon as the catcher tips over. It's dangerous and stupid and it's the lifters duty to bring him down safely.
Last thing you want is underage players trying out this move.
First time I'd restart with a scrum and a warning, next time it would be a pen for dangerous play.

But what law is it breaking?

Teferi

I'm trying to figure out the advantage of this unless your objective is to slow the ball down and form a ruck or maul straight away.

If you have two lifters you can form a mini line out and get it out to your first receiver/backs straight away.

Shelflife

WeeBushy wrote: »

Shelflife wrote: »

As a ref, I'd be blowing up as soon as the catcher tips over. It's dangerous and stupid and it's the lifters duty to bring him down safely.
Last thing you want is underage players trying out this move.
First time I'd restart with a scrum and a warning, next time it would be a pen for dangerous play.

But what law is it breaking?

It's dangerous play, similar to the requirement on the prop to bring his jumper down safely.

totallegend

WeeBushy wrote: »

But what law is it breaking?

You could argue it's dangerous play but I'm not sure it counts if you're endangering your own team-mate?

What annoys me about it is that if someone on the other team tries to compete in the air, knocks the jumper over and he breaks his neck, that player will cop the flak for it. It shouldn't be allowed.

fitz

Might be nuts, I'm probably talking rubbish...but is there a case for offside?
It's physically similar to accidental offside, with a player between the opposition and the ball carrier.

WeeBushy

Shelflife wrote: »

It's dangerous play, similar to the requirement on the prop to bring his jumper down safely.

I was reading the rules there and I could easily be wrong, but I can't find anything about having to bring your own player down safely, just says you have to bring them down. As far as I can make out any mention of dangerous play relates to acts that could be dangerous to the opposition. But I'm open to correction.

irishbucsfan

Where's the rule that stops him holding him up there and running the pitch?

WeeBushy

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Where's the rule that stops him holding him up there and running the pitch?

19.10

(g) Lowering a Player. Players who support a jumping team-mate must lower that player to
the ground as soon as the ball has been won by a player of either team.

http://www.irblaws.com/downloads/EN/Law_19_EN.pdf

fitz

WeeBushy wrote: »

19.10

(g) Lowering a Player. Players who support a jumping team-mate must lower that player to
the ground as soon as the ball has been won by a player of either team.

http://www.irblaws.com/downloads/EN/Law_19_EN.pdf

He's violating tha rule as it is, it's other players who are lowering the catcher....

WeeBushy

fitz wrote: »

He's violating tha rule as it is, it's other players who are lowering the catcher....

I don't follow what you're trying to say...

rje66

apart from the safety factor, once beast lowers player from the air, has anyone noticed that he acts as an illegal blocker as he is between ball carrier and opposition players.
penalty in my book:D:D

fitz

WeeBushy wrote: »

I don't follow what you're trying to say...

He isn't the one to lower the player, others come in behind to support the player he's holding up and they return him to the ground. They aren't involved in the lift, so Beast isn't lowering the player as soon as the ball is won, as per the rule. Along with the fact that it's dangerous play and arguably offside as I said earlier, I reckon there's plenty there to penalise him for.