The Sunday Game Pundits Thread

mariano rivera

I would like to set up a thread on analysis of the Sunday Game pundits

It’s an old boys club where they seem to roll out cliché after cliché

The expert analysis, especially with the football is fairly thin on the ground

Des Cahill is either unable or unwilling to ask the pundits to back up their ideas

If you were to compare the standard of punditry to the soccer guys (Giles, Dunphy, Brady) the standard is miles away

For example, Colm Parkinson criticized Seanie Johnston for turning his back on his county. Parkinson himself left his own Club to move to a Dubln Club.
While I personally do not have a problem with players moving clubs, the hypocrisy is of this statement was galling

Or I don’t know which was worse, the statement itself or the Presenter unwilling to ask Parkinson why he left his own club

Can you imagine Bill O’Herlihy letting Dunphy away with such a comment?

NO PERSONAL COMMENTS PLEASE ABOUT THE PUNDITS. JUST COMMENTS ON THE ANALYSIS/ EXPERTS OPINIONS

Lewotsil

What bugs me about the GAA pundits on all channels i.e. RTE, TV3 and Setanta and indeed the radio is that they criticise referee calls without reference to the rule book................ it's usually a comment(s)on a striking offence like ' agh I don't think there was much in that' or ' there was no malice in that' ..............rather than objective analysis like 'while there was not much force it remains a strike and the referee has no choice as a strike is a red card offence' They are v slow to admonish players.............because most of them are former washed up players.

Would like to see a former referee as a pundit.

cgpg5

mariano rivera wrote: »

I would like to set up a thread on analysis of the Sunday Game pundits

It’s an old boys club where they seem to roll out cliché after cliché

The expert analysis, especially with the football is fairly thin on the ground

Des Cahill is either unable or unwilling to ask the pundits to back up their ideas

If you were to compare the standard of punditry to the soccer guys (Giles, Dunphy, Brady) the standard is miles away

For example, Colm Parkinson criticized Seanie Johnston for turning his back on his county. Parkinson himself left his own Club to move to a Dubln Club.
While I personally do not have a problem with players moving clubs, the hypocrisy is of this statement was galling

Or I don’t know which was worse, the statement itself or the Presenter unwilling to ask Parkinson why he left his own club

Can you imagine Bill O’Herlihy letting Dunphy away with such a comment?

NO PERSONAL COMMENTS PLEASE ABOUT THE PUNDITS. JUST COMMENTS ON THE ANALYSIS/ EXPERTS OPINIONS

Tbf was Parkinson not working/living in that area in Dublin? Often in such circumstances it can make better sense to transfer.

Johnstone's is incomparable, he just chose to transfer to a county he has zero connection to just because he couldn't get a game for his home country.

premierstone

mariano rivera wrote: »

I would like to set up a thread on analysis of the Sunday Game pundits

It’s an old boys club where they seem to roll out cliché after cliché They have added new personell every year to the panel and now have a nice mix of recently retired players and more seasoned analysts.

The expert analysis, especially with the football is fairly thin on the ground Expert footballers are fairly thin on the ground tbf and anytime Brolly or Spillane speak their mind their accused of trolling.

Des Cahill is either unable or unwilling to ask the pundits to back up their ideas

If you were to compare the standard of punditry to the soccer guys (Giles, Dunphy, Brady) the standard is miles away I agree, the standard of analysis on the soccer is laughable, Giles doesnt know any player that doesnt play for a top 4 team in hte premiership, and Dumphy is too bitter and twisted to analyse anything properly.

For example, Colm Parkinson criticized Seanie Johnston for turning his back on his county. Parkinson himself left his own Club to move to a Dubln Club.
While I personally do not have a problem with players moving clubs, the hypocrisy is of this statement was galling There was no hypocrisy here, Parkinson left he's club as he was working and living in Dublin, not even close to what happened with Seanie Johnson

Or I don’t know which was worse, the statement itself or the Presenter unwilling to ask Parkinson why he left his own club

Can you imagine Bill O’Herlihy letting Dunphy away with such a comment? Yeah thats exactly what we need a bufoon like Herlihy, who has been presenting Soccer programmes for aslong as I can remember and still hasnt a balls what he is talking about. O'Herlihy, Giles and Dunphy maybe entertaining but dont confuse that with quality analysis.

NO PERSONAL COMMENTS PLEASE ABOUT THE PUNDITS. JUST COMMENTS ON THE ANALYSIS/ EXPERTS OPINIONS

Comments included in quote

keane2097

Analysis of the analysis is equally yawn-inducing and idiotic most of the time IMO.

Pete_Cavan

mariano rivera wrote: »

For example, Colm Parkinson criticized Seanie Johnston for turning his back on his county. Parkinson himself left his own Club to move to a Dubln Club.
While I personally do not have a problem with players moving clubs, the hypocrisy is of this statement was galling

Or I don’t know which was worse, the statement itself or the Presenter unwilling to ask Parkinson why he left his own club

Parkinson also said he had no problem with guys transferring to avoid a long commute, which is fair enough. While some guys do it, not everybody wants to spend over an hour in the car several days a week to get home to play football. There was no need to ask Parkinson why he left his own club because he had already covered that. It was also pointed out that, in the Johnston case, he is creating a long commute for himself.

mariano rivera

Lewotsil wrote: »

What bugs me about the GAA pundits on all channels i.e. RTE, TV3 and Setanta and indeed the radio is that they criticise referee calls without reference to the rule book................ it's usually a comment(s)on a striking offence like ' agh I don't think there was much in that' or ' there was no malice in that' ..............rather than objective analysis like 'while there was not much force it remains a strike and the referee has no choice as a strike is a red card offence' They are v slow to admonish players.............because most of them are former washed up players.

Would like to see a former referee as a pundit.

Agree totally


The pundits are ALWAYS asking the referees to do two things

1. Be consistent in implementing the rules

2. Use common sense


A ref can either use the rules as they are put down OR he can use his common sense


He cannot do both


Its a paradox

Henno30

The relentless negativity of O'Rourke, Spillane, and Brolly grates on me terribly.

No insight. No analysis. Nothing except complaining. It shouldn't be acceptable.

aidan24326

mariano rivera wrote: »

Des Cahill is either unable or unwilling to ask the pundits to back up their ideas

Des Cahill is not a good presenter though. He's typical of the sort of dull, bland mediocrity that passes for talent of RTE. And paid well for it too I'm sure.

Henno30 wrote: »

The relentless negativity of O'Rourke, Spillane, and Brolly grates on me terribly.

No insight. No analysis. Nothing except complaining. It shouldn't be acceptable.

That isn't strictly true. O'Rourke and Spillane were very positive in their comments about the Galway-Roscommon game. And they were right to be negative about last Sunday's Kerry-Tipp match because it wasn't much of a spectacle and was probably one of Kerry's poorest championship performances in years, where they made heavy work of beating a very ordinary Tipp outfit.

Their style of play was strangely negative considering they were playing inferior opposition. So what do you want the lads to do? Tell us it was a great game?

elefant

I like the GAA analysis.

They've all been there, done that, and unlike former players commenting on soccer games, they're all intelligent and well-educated. If anyone in the country is entitled to give a negative opinion on a match it's them (Parkinson is a bit of a drop in level of ex-player, but I haven't seen him yet so it would be unfair to criticise him- he might be excellent too).

I'd be more concerned if they were positive about everything- and let's be honest, there's a lot of football to be negative about nowadays.

SeaFields

Most comments seem to be focusing on the football analysts which is understandable considering Brolly or Spillane will probably say something that will have us all up in arms before september :pac:

But anyone have an opinion on the hurley analysts?

I think its good they have the likes of Donal O Grady back. A very honest and good contributor. And hurling analysis on the sunday game wouldnt be the same without Ger Loughnane. Great to see him back and healthy this year too.

AGC

aidan24326 wrote: »

Des Cahill is not a good presenter though. He's typical of the sort of dull, bland mediocrity that passes for talent of RTE. And paid well for it too I'm sure.




That isn't strictly true. O'Rourke and Spillane were very positive in their comments about the Galway-Roscommon game. And they were right to be negative about last Sunday's Kerry-Tipp match because it wasn't much of a spectacle and was probably one of Kerry's poorest championship performances in years, where they made heavy work of beating a very ordinary Tipp outfit.

Their style of play was strangely negative considering they were playing inferior opposition. So what do you want the lads to do? Tell us it was a great game?

Id agree with this. I think O'Rourke is good and Spillane can be. When they get some recent former players like Ciaran Whelan it is also very good.

Brolly comes across bitter and tries to make the point that the Ulster teams created the current style of play. His negativity towards Kerry is sad really

Diabhal Beag

Couldn't believe that nobody noticed Brolly call Cyril and Ger the "hurling Nazis". Such an awkward 5 seconds while Lyster tried to think of something to move onto.

StephenHendry

AGC wrote: »

Id agree with this. I think O'Rourke is good and Spillane can be. When they get some recent former players like Ciaran Whelan it is also very good.

Brolly comes across bitter and tries to make the point that the Ulster teams created the current style of play. His negativity towards Kerry is sad really

i like brolly, you never know what he is going to come out with, i do think he is also at times very harsh towards cork

Frankie Lee

[Tinfoil hat] When you see the likes of Parkinson getting a job as a pundit and have Marty Morrissey still commentating then one could be forgiven for thinking that RTE is trying to run down the GAA. Rugby-head freemason reptiles in charge there. [/Tinfoil Hat]

Seriously however the standard of punditry for the football epecially is atrocious and only geting worse. TV3 were decent last season with good tactical analysis from Canavan and Senan Connell especially but could have improved the banter and dropped David Brady. Ciaran Whelan has impressed me as a pundit too while Dara O'Sé can be interesting too.

Samich

I love the Hurling analysis, they're really into it. Just chatting away like they're down in the pub and the way they say things is funny too, especially cyril farrell

Also I love Colm Parkinsons appearances so far.

Diabhal Beag

Put the stats away Pat, there's children watching.

Diabhal Beag

If you're a fan of the medicine ball this match is not for you. Training techniques were criticized heavily.

Frankie Lee

A decent first half being made seem like the worst half of football ever played.

:mad:

Poor game of football?

F*ck off Pat!

Samich

I thought it was poor enough. Especially from Wexford. It's football, not handball.

Diego Maradona

Thought it was a good game, was very close all the way through. The wind and rain didn't make it easy. Wexford will be kicking themselves they didn't hold out, terrible defending at the end.

Diego Maradona

Samich wrote: »

I thought it was poor enough. Especially from Wexford. It's football, not handball.

They kicked 15 points or did they fist them all over the bar?:rolleyes:

Divorce Referendum

Samich wrote: »

I thought it was poor enough. Especially from Wexford. It's football, not handball.

Diego Maradona wrote: »

They kicked 15 points or did they fist them all over the bar?:rolleyes:

Yes and 11 of them points were from play and 5 from a wing back which is superb. Samich handpassing is part of the game now and ball retention is crucial. I would say wexford over elaborated with the handpass at times but Longford were playing this blanket defence that Donegal have made famous and made handpassing difficult. If you noticed for all of Longfords goal chances and the build up to the penalty they originated from neat handpassing also.

STB

Speaking of commentary full of clichés, I hope I dont have to listen to this TV3 commentary all summer.

Mike Finnerty needs to be de-clichéd. Awful. Who is the clown in TV3 that hired this guy.

Its touch and go whether listening to Joan Burton for 70 minutes would be much worse.

Frankie Lee

Agreed, the Nordie lad who commentates for Setanta would be a better option.

Samich

I'd rather see a 10 yard pass kicked than fisted. it's so boring.

Diego Maradona

Samich wrote: »

I'd rather see a 10 yard pass kicked than fisted. it's so boring.

Why did you watch it then?

A 10 yard pass should always be hand passed, theres more chance of it going astray if its kicked. That's basic football knowledge that is thought at U8's training.

Chips Ahoy

Whats going on with Tony Davis eyebrows tonight?

They're freaking me out.

Diabhal Beag

Seriously when did Darragh Maloney become above Ger Canning on the hurling commentary front?

Junior D

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Seriously when did Darragh Maloney become above Ger Canning on the hurling commentary front?

This mans voice for some reason just really irks me.

Thought Mulcahy was very irritating too today.

youtheman

Loved the way the light was shone on Joe Brolly and he was asked to explain his comments about The Gooch. Spliiane just sat there and allowed Jow to dig a bigger hole. Reminded me of The D'unbelievables " Take the hand down fairly lively !!!".

Neeson

Spillane is a bit of a dose really though. Seems to think he's above all others and he's always rights.

robbiezero

I thought Brolly had a bit of a point if they had allowed him to explain himself.

Neeson

robbiezero wrote: »

I thought Brolly had a bit of a point if they had allowed him to explain himself.

I'd agree. They just laugh it off and Pat starts waving arms around and tutting. That's the only response he has. It's impossible to be critical of Kerry with him in the studio.

robbiezero

Neeson wrote: »

I'd agree. They just laugh it off and Pat starts waving arms around and tutting. That's the only response he has. It's impossible to be critical of Kerry with him in the studio.

ya, I would have liked to see more sensible discussion on it. The Kerry team of the last 15 years has been on of the best football teams of all time and if they had even won one of those 3 games in the 2000's v Tyrone might well have had a claim to be the best football team of all time.

Clareman

Brolly did have a bit of a point, he was trying to say that Gooch doesn't always play brilliantly in big games against the best teams, I don't know if any top players in any sport do however due to the opposition usually having a plan on how to counteract the "star", the fact that he's the top scorer in the history of the game I think shows that it's a silly arguement.

I was travelling home yesterday listening to the game on the radio, however bad the guys on TV are the radio guys don't give a true reflection at all, they were trying to make out that Hogan shouldn't have been sent off.

robbiezero

Clareman wrote: »

Brolly did have a bit of a point, he was trying to say that Gooch doesn't always play brilliantly in big games against the best teams, I don't know if any top players in any sport do however due to the opposition usually having a plan on how to counteract the "star", the fact that he's the top scorer in the history of the game I think shows that it's a silly arguement.

I was travelling home yesterday listening to the game on the radio, however bad the guys on TV are the radio guys don't give a true reflection at all, they were trying to make out that Hogan shouldn't have been sent off.

The gooch thing is a silly argument alright, he has plenty bottle and actually did play well in a number of games where Kerry lost, but the point with regard to the Kerry team being able to win games from behind against hungry physical opposition is a legitimate one.

My view is that Kerry in 2002 and 2003 were playing the old brand of football to the Northern teams and hadn't yet switched to the modern football where your half forwards double as defenders and were undone by this and the massive hunger Tyrone and Armagh showed when going for their first All-Ireland (very hard to match that same hunger when going for your 30-something All-Ireland). In 2005 and 2008 Tyrone were just the better team, a superb outfit on their day although in 2008 Kerrys tactics were woeful, high ball after high ball into Donaghy which Tyrone were ready for.

gandroid

Junior D wrote: »

This mans voice for some reason just really irks me.

Thought Mulcahy was very irritating too today.

I don't mind Maloney myself but yes I thought Mulcahy was poor yesterday...

Stoner

robbiezero wrote: »

I thought Brolly had a bit of a point if they had allowed him to explain himself.

I think he has a point with respect to teams putting it up to Kerry. I'm not so sure about the Gooch comment, I don't like comparing soccer and GAA but Robbie Keane by far Ireland's top scorer but.....
What I like about Gooch is how he finishes goals there is nobody better IMHO, he is aware and able to change the direction of the ball very late into the movement, compare that to say his team mate Donaghy, so good at winning the ball but sometimes keepers know a little to early where he is going with it.

However if Kerry were the best team over the past number of years (I think they were) it does not mean that they could not have been even better or that there is no reason why Tyrone got past them 3 times. Purely on that basis I see no reason why it can't be analysed and formed into an opinion and a fair criticism, I think that is all Brolly was trying to do, he just has a very annoying way of delivering some of his points from the perspective of a supporter of the team he is having a pop at. If he started his comments with more of the positive aspects of a team before delivering the conclusion of his analysis it might help, but he can make a big deal out of a weakness, making it seem as if a team is completely useless as a result of it, where as its simply something to work on in many cases.

aidan24326

gandroid wrote: »

I don't mind Maloney myself but yes I thought Mulcahy was poor yesterday...

Mulcahy is ok in the studio but not great as a co-commentator. Michael Duignan is excellent though.

quad_red

Bloody hell, Pat Spillane is an odious drone. He is barely able to construct a coherent point without recourse to school yard tactics: "he's digging".

STFU you clown.

Saying that - Brolly is undone because he has a clear emotional bias against Kerry (imho). If he had been a bit more gracious, he could have made a point worth debating. But the bitterness seeped through, he tried to score a few low blows and now he's left trying to defend the choker comment when the rest of his argument falls into the background.

Either way - this was tv/sports commentary of the very lowest order. No insight, entertainment or end result.

Neeson

Lyster seemed to side with Spillane too. Sitting there sniggering like a half-wit

elguapo

quad_red wrote: »

Bloody hell, Pat Spillane is an odious drone. He is barely able to construct a coherent point without recourse to school yard tactics: "he's digging".

STFU you clown.

Saying that - Brolly is undone because he has a clear emotional bias against Kerry (imho). If he had been a bit more gracious, he could have made a point worth debating. But the bitterness seeped through, he tried to score a few low blows and now he's left trying to defend the choker comment when the rest of his argument falls into the background.

Either way - this was tv/sports commentary of the very lowest order. No insight, entertainment or end result.

Agreed. Brolly is insufferably smug, clearly in love with the sound of his own voice (which only adds to the smug), and can't resist cheap shots when it comes to Cork and Kerry. He can't expect people to debate him in earnest when he sits there with that permanently self-satisfied grin on his face.

stevemac182

RTE have an absolutely terrible team of GAA analysts who seem to think their bickering and moaning in studio provide adequate entertainment to the taxpayer. It would serve them better to stop picking "controversial" attention-seeking muppets like Joe Brolly (Colm Cooper will live longer in GAA folklore than your good self Brolly) and instead hire some ex-managers/coaches or younger ex-players to discuss some of the more pressing issues; especially the rulebook. Brolly's vilification of some teams (Kerry, Cork, Mayo) is an insult to people from those counties and he should be fired.

For what it's worth, I think Pat Spillane makes some good points; it's a shame it takes him 5 minutes to try and articulate them. Kevin McStay is (was?!) an excellent analyst. I haven't seen enough of Parkinson to form a proper opinion really. I actually enjoy Mike Finnerty's cliche-ridden commentary as I find it entertaining enough!

wonga77

whatever happened to Tohill?

curry-muff

stevemac182 wrote: »

Brolly's vilification of some teams (Kerry, Cork, Mayo) is an insult to people from those counties and he should be fired.

If vilification was a sackable offence Spillane would be gone long ago, has never said a nice word about Ulster football in his life and gave dogs abuse to Donegal and their players last year.

bruschi

Stoner wrote: »

I think he has a point with respect to teams putting it up to Kerry. I'm not so sure about the Gooch comment, I don't like comparing soccer and GAA but Robbie Keane by far Ireland's top scorer but.....
What I like about Gooch is how he finishes goals there is nobody better IMHO, he is aware and able to change the direction of the ball very late into the movement, compare that to say his team mate Donaghy, so good at winning the ball but sometimes keepers know a little to early where he is going with it.

However if Kerry were the best team over the past number of years (I think they were) it does not mean that they could not have been even better or that there is no reason why Tyrone got past them 3 times. Purely on that basis I see no reason why it can't be analysed and formed into an opinion and a fair criticism, I think that is all Brolly was trying to do, he just has a very annoying way of delivering some of his points from the perspective of a supporter of the team he is having a pop at. If he started his comments with more of the positive aspects of a team before delivering the conclusion of his analysis it might help, but he can make a big deal out of a weakness, making it seem as if a team is completely useless as a result of it, where as its simply something to work on in many cases.

he did the same last year talking about Corks half back line, and despite having a very good point, he went over board in his analogies on them, and thus the whole point of his argument was lost because it was perceived as blind criticsim. But if you took away his flowery words and over exxagerations, he generally does have a decent point to back it up. Unfortunately though, he seems to prefer to making it a sensationalist type piece rather than leave it as constructive analysis.

Choochtown

A typical Spillane comment begins with him reminding viewers once again about the great Kerry team of the late 70s and 80s and what great forwards they had (i.e he's great).

yomtea98

bruschi wrote: »

he did the same last year talking about Corks half back line, and despite having a very good point, he went over board in his analogies on them, and thus the whole point of his argument was lost because it was perceived as blind criticsim. But if you took away his flowery words and over exxagerations, he generally does have a decent point to back it up. Unfortunately though, he seems to prefer to making it a sensationalist type piece rather than leave it as constructive analysis.

Lester is awful last night.Never thought I would say it but bring back Des.I like Maloney but Duignain is terrible

doc_17

Tohill was ok with analysis but dropped for some reason, maybe because after taking McHugh and having brolly there they had enough inside from ulster.

McHugh is a nice addition. But Pat Spillane's abuse of northern teams in the past was as bad ( and happened more often) as anything Brolly said about Gooch. When did Spillane first make that "puke football" comment? I bet it wasn't after Tyrone or Armagh beat Dublin or Cork. Probably after they beat Kerry and the form was foul!