Back training after a few years and need supplement advice

thegame

im on week 5 working out . im 168 pounds and im 33. and i am taking these supplements and posted here for advice on my supps if these are ok for me or would ya change it around .


Optimum Nutrition casein

preworkout
cellucor c4

drinking during workout
Bcaas

Postwork out
GENr8 Vitargo
ON Whey protein

Before bed
ON casein protein

RNC

thegame wrote: »

im on week 5 working out . im 168 pounds and im 33. and i am taking these supplements and posted here for advice on my supps if these are ok for me or would ya change it around .


Optimum Nutrition casein

preworkout
cellucor c4

drinking during workout
Bcaas

Postwork out
GENr8 Vitargo
ON Whey protein

Before bed
ON casein protein

thats a lot of supplements, how is the rest of your diet? wat are your goals?

Transform

what training are you doing?

HHtraining

The supplements that you are taking depends on the type of training that you are doing, your current weight and your goals. More information would help.

Hailhail1967

With that list I hope you are a serious trainer and going for serious gains.

I personally think people are to quick to jump for supplements, I know they have a place but that is all, a place. People have been in top shape, long before there was jars of protein.

But a better picture of yourself and what your aiming for will help

Hail 2 Da Chimp

MoJos wrote: »

my team takes free BMW for life in every 30 days...

Free BMW for life every 30 days you say?

Mellor

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

I personally think people are to quick to jump for supplements, I know they have a place but that is all, a place. People have been in top shape, long before there was jars of protein.

People are too quick to jump to supplements. But people are also quick to say you don't need them too.

It's a pre workout stim, come BCAAs, a carb and whey PWO shake, and casein before bed. Most of this is just food.
A coffee prework, chocolate milk after and cottage cheese before bed covers a lot of the same bases and and nobodys bats an eye or suggests its only for serious folk. If people want to pay a premium to get their food in powder form, thats fine. As long as they understand thats what it is - which might not be the case here.

OP, your training is more important than how much you your diet comes from powdered sourced. Whey and caesin are great to have around for times you're in a hurry, but there is no need to be reliant on them daily. Think of each one in its most basic form.

Hailhail1967

Mellor wrote: »

People are too quick to jump to supplements. But people are also quick to say you don't need them too.

It's a pre workout stim, come BCAAs, a carb and whey PWO shake, and casein before bed. Most of this is just food.
A coffee prework, chocolate milk after and cottage cheese before bed covers a lot of the same bases and and nobodys bats an eye or suggests its only for serious folk. If people want to pay a premium to get their food in powder form, thats fine. As long as they understand thats what it is - which might not be the case here.

OP, your training is more important than how much you your diet comes from powdered sourced. Whey and caesin are great to have around for times you're in a hurry, but there is no need to be reliant on them daily. Think of each one in its most basic form.

Well I personally do not believe that taking your meals in the form of all powders is remotely healthy in the long term, I wont get into a debate on supplements as we need another 50 years before we know the true effects.

In my professional opinion, you only take supplements when you are missing something from your diet and even then not in the long term.

Again if your going for big gains and your adding those to your diet that's a different story. Eating 5/6000 kcals a day can be difficult for people to fit around training.

Also I am not anti supplements, I have numerous proteins in the house at all times and I regularly take them.

banquet

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

Well I personally do not believe that taking your meals in the form of all powders is remotely healthy in the long term, I wont get into a debate on supplements as we need another 50 years before we know the true effects.

In my professional opinion, you only take supplements when you are missing something from your diet and even then not in the long term.

What's your profession if you don't mind me asking?

WeeBushy

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

Well I personally do not believe that taking your meals in the form of all powders is remotely healthy in the long term, I wont get into a debate on supplements as we need another 50 years before we know the true effects.

In my professional opinion, you only take supplements when you are missing something from your diet and even then not in the long term.

Again if your going for big gains and your adding those to your diet that's a different story. Eating 5/6000 kcals a day can be difficult for people to fit around training.

Also I am not anti supplements, I have numerous proteins in the house at all times and I regularly take them.

I don't understand how the two bolded bits square up.

'Don't take them regularly, but I take them regularly' Or am I missing something?

Hailhail1967

WeeBushy wrote: »

I don't understand how the two bolded bits square up.

'Don't take them regularly, but I take them regularly' Or am I missing something?

One says in "the long term" meaning used over a prolonged period, the other is regularly, meaning, I use them regularly (not constantly or constantly over a prolonged period).

Either way, I was referring to using supplements over a prolonged period of time as a substitute to a good diet and not as a compliment. Read the next sentence, I was trying to point out that for suppliments to be needed I believe you need you need to be a heavy trainer or looking for huge gains.

Brian?

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

One says in "the long term" meaning used over a prolonged period, the other is regularly, meaning, I use them regularly (not constantly or constantly over a prolonged period).

Either way, I was referring to using supplements over a prolonged period of time as a substitute to a good diet and not as a compliment. Read the next sentence, I was trying to point out that for suppliments to be needed I believe you need you need to be a heavy trainer or looking for huge gains.

I don't get your point about long term supplement use. Whey and Casein are just powdered food. Creatine, despite what the Joe Duffy and George Hook lobby think, is found in meat. Do we need long term studies?

Hailhail1967

briankeating wrote: »

I don't get your point about long term supplement use. Whey and Casein are just powdered food. Creatine, despite what the Joe Duffy and George Hook lobby think, is found in meat. Do we need long term studies?

Creatine is interesting in that there is constant studies arising showing the benefits with little side effects. Indeed most of the side effects that arise are due to improper use or hydration issues. Yet the ACSM are cautious to comment on its benefits or side effects. The long term consequences are unknown and as it interferes with the bodies production itself, its possible there may be problems, again I believe it needs to be used 100% properly and I dont think the average gym goer has any use for it.

As for protein well the point I am making is that I do not think people should use it as their regular dietary source of protein. Studies show that most strength and power athletes actually get sufficient protein from their diet anyway. So I think people in general are overloading on protein to no real avail.

Anyway there is a big elephant in the room that people shy away from and that is the C word. Meat consumption is directly related to it and as such overloading on protein may have the same effect.

As I commented originally I am not saying they don't have a place, I think they do, just no real need for 4/5 supplements in a day and not as your main meal sources.

cc87

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

Creatine is interesting in that there is constant studies arising showing the benefits with little side effects. Indeed most of the side effects that arise are due to improper use or hydration issues. Yet the ACSM are cautious to comment on its benefits or side effects. The long term consequences are unknown and as it interferes with the bodies production itself, its possible there may be problems, again I believe it needs to be used 100% properly and I dont think the average gym goer has any use for it.

As for protein well the point I am making is that I do not think people should use it as their regular dietary source of protein. Studies show that most strength and power athletes actually get sufficient protein from their diet anyway. So I think people in general are overloading on protein to no real avail.

Anyway there is a big elephant in the room that people shy away from and that is the C word. Meat consumption is directly related to it and as such overloading on protein may have the same effect.

As I commented originally I am not saying they don't have a place, I think they do, just no real need for 4/5 supplements in a day and not as your main meal sources.

Hold on now a second. Are you saying that since red meat has a supposed link to cancer that a dairy based protein supplement is probably going to as well??

Mellor

As for protein well the point I am making is that I do not think people should use it as their regular dietary source of protein. Studies show that most strength and power athletes actually get sufficient protein from their diet anyway. So I think people in general are overloading on protein to no real avail.

Shouldn't use what as a source of protein. You aren't very specific.

For example at least half of my protein comes for meat, chicken, kangaroo, tuna, beef. With the rest coming from eggs and dairy. I don't drink a lot of milk, so I use whey powder to add dairy protein on days I feel im lacking.

Lets say its 75g from meat, 25g eggs, 25g dairy and 25g from the micro amounts in other foods.
Are you suggesting that weather of not that 25g dairy protein comes from milk or dried protein extracted from milk is relevant?
Personally it's a minor variation, in a fraction of my diet. Not an area i need to fix.

Anyway there is a big elephant in the room that people shy away from and that is the C word. Meat consumption is directly related to it and as such overloading on protein may have the same effect.

Bit of a leap there.

As I commented originally I am not saying they don't have a place, I think they do, just no real need for 4/5 supplements in a day and not as your main meal sources.

They were hardly main meals.
A coffee and two snacks at best.

Hailhail1967

Mellor wrote: »

Shouldn't use what as a source of protein. You aren't very specific.

For example at least half of my protein comes for meat, chicken, kangaroo, tuna, beef. With the rest coming from eggs and dairy. I don't drink a lot of milk, so I use whey powder to add dairy protein on days I feel im lacking.

Lets say its 75g from meat, 25g eggs, 25g dairy and 25g from the micro amounts in other foods.
Are you suggesting that weather of not that 25g dairy protein comes from milk or dried protein extracted from milk is relevant?
Personally it's a minor variation, in a fraction of my diet. Not an area i need to fix.


Bit of a leap there.


They were hardly main meals.
A coffee and two snacks at best.

I meant Protein Supplements as a main source of protein. It is rife in the fitness industry at the moment. Gyms are full of people who load up on supplements and use those supplements as their main meals. I believe a varied diet is what is needed and what you described is exactly that.

And its not a leap of faith at all, indeed a number of studies are ongoing into the link. Does protein increase testosterone?? Trust me its a big area of research presently.

Hailhail1967

banquet wrote: »

What's your profession if you don't mind me asking?

Sorry just seen this.

I am a personal trainer with an Honours degree in Exercise and health studies

Transform

Eat real food, train hard, get strong and supplement only when real food is not on hand or you are not great on preparation

Inspector Coptoor

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

[

Sorry just seen this.

I am a personal trainer with an Honours degree in Exercise and health studies

And this course gave you inside knowledge on what research (be it PhD or post-doc) is being done currently & what the outcomes are likely to be?

Whey is what's left over from cheese making.
It is a foodstuff.
It is a staple part of my diet.
That's not going to change any time soon.

It supplements & compliments my diet, it does not supplant anything else.

FISMA

Forget the supplements and concentrate on getting good habits, form, and nutrition.

A couple of fried eggs after you work out will do more good than 99% of that dried out crap they pass as protein from a G-d knows what source of food grown in countries that had G-d knows what kind of regulations or oversight.

The supplement industry is like the cosmetics industry, but for men.

Don't get me wrong, I take a few myself. You just won't see me buying things they say super ripped or silliness like that.

Take a multivitamin for now. Do some reading and research and they make some informed decisions.

Inspector Coptoor

Yeah, Glanbia are know for their low standards......

Oh wait a minute, they're not.

Fisma has a point though.
The more ingredients on a supplement & the more marketing behind it, the more it's blowing smoke up people's asses.

Multivitamin
Fish oil
Whey protein
Casein protein.

That should be the starting point.
Simple.

Hailhail1967

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

And this course gave you inside knowledge on what research (be it PhD or post-doc) is being done currently & what the outcomes are likely to be?

Whey is what's left over from cheese making.
It is a foodstuff.
It is a staple part of my diet.
That's not going to change any time soon.

It supplements & compliments my diet, it does not supplant anything else.

Absolutely, and I have an insight in to many of the current study's being carried out in this and many other areas, but I do not have to justify myself to you or anyone else in that regard.

The reality is, most people do not need to take protein in the form of a supplement, there is no need or benefit for MOST people.

Inspector Coptoor

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

Absolutely, and I have an insight in to many of the current study's being carried out in this and many other areas, but I do not have to justify myself to you or anyone else in that regard.

Discussion does not equal justification.
I asked you a question.
Your answer is poor.

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

The reality is, most people do not need to take protein in the form of a supplement, there is no need or benefit for MOST people.

According to who?
Who are the other peoe that don't fa into the "MOST" bracket?

Hailhail1967

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Discussion does not equal justification.
I asked you a question.
Your answer is poor.




According to who?
Who are the other peoe that don't fa into the "MOST" bracket?

Go read some peer reviewed articles for yourself and you will find all your answers.

Gummy Panda

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Discussion does not equal justification.
I asked you a question.
Your answer is poor.




According to who?
Who are the other peoe that don't fa into the "MOST" bracket?

Go read some peer reviewed articles for yourself and you will find all your answers.

Bit of a cop out there

Inspector Coptoor

MASSIVE cop out.

Hailhail1967

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

MASSIVE cop out.

Ha ha. That is all.

Inspector Coptoor

Hailhail1967 wrote: »

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

MASSIVE cop out.

Ha ha. That is all.

Right. I'll let you laugh,
You still came across like a bag of hot air.
Good luck.

Hailhail1967

Inspector Coptoor wrote: »

Right. I'll let you laugh,
You still came across like a bag of hot air.
Good luck.

Thats probably the excess protein, it sometimes causes that too.