Emyvale GP - Sun 27th May 2012

joker77

Province: Ulster
Promoter: Emyvale McQuaid Tyres
Contact Details: George McCarron, 0879355625 georgecyclosport@hotmail.com
Time/Sign On Details: Yth 11.00/Sen 1.00pm
Categorys: A1-A4/W/Yth
Distance:

There's a couple of threads here and here from previous years, but the routes are hidden. Does anyone have a route of the circuit for this?
Thanks

Caroline_ie

I think it's likely to be the same as last year

vigorelli

I read somewhere that the race is going in the opposite direction to previous years.

If in doubt, follow another cyclist until you see the black and white flag. If you have some panache, just follow the lead car

TPMAC

Not only did the race go in the opposite direction but an A1 rider signed up for it, competed in it, won it, threw his arms aloft upon crossing the sticky white line & took the kitty for the A3 race. CLASS CLASS ACT!

Dura Ace

TPMAC wrote: »

Not only did the race go in the opposite direction but an A1 rider signed up for it, competed in it, won it, threw his arms aloft upon crossing the sticky white line & took the kitty for the A3 race. CLASS CLASS ACT!

How did that happen?

Lumen

Dura Ace wrote: »

How did that happen?

Presumably some fast old codger with a vets licence thought he had a chance of outsprinting the children juniors for the win.

Kav0777

Lumen wrote: »

Presumably some fast old codger with a vets licence thought he had a chance of outsprinting the children juniors for the win.

On a completely unrelated note, was Beasty there?

TPMAC

Lumen wrote: »

Dura Ace wrote: »

How did that happen?

Presumably some fast old codger with a vets licence thought he had a chance of outsprinting the children juniors for the win.

Just surprised he didn't enter the women's race just incase!
I'm still in shock that that **** can happen. Disgusting.

manwithaplan

TPMAC wrote: »

Just surprised he didn't enter the women's race just incase!

I think that's enough about Beasty now.

fondriest

Is an A1 with a vets licence allowed to enter an A3 race ? I thought the idea behind the ability grading system was to stop this happening .

DirkVoodoo

fondriest wrote: »

Is an A1 with a vets licence allowed to enter an A3 race ? I thought the idea behind the ability grading system was to stop this happening .

No grading system is immune to a complete lack of class and dignity.

bogmanfan

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

No grading system is immune to a complete lack of class and dignity.

+1
Some people seem to have a natural talent for pr**kology

buffalo

bogmanfan wrote: »

+1
Some people seem to have a natural talent for pr**kology

I had to go look at the results to see who this mysterious man was. Nice.

fondriest

He seems to have pissed off quiet a few people , I'm not sure of the rules about this but I'm pretty sure if he broke them there will be nothing done about it . On a seperate but similar issue I see a lad riding the A4 race in New Ross on Sunday who earlier in the year had upgraded from A4. To A2 to ride the Gorey 3 day , he then obviously decided that he was better suited to A4 and seems to have regraded himself back down . This kind of stuff is really annoying because these lads are taking hard earned results off riders who are out doing their best every weekend .

AstraMonti

Wasn't that not supposed to happen this year? I remember reading somewhere that if you decided to upgrade then you stick with it for the whole year or something.

oflahero

buffalo wrote: »

I had to go look at the results to see who this mysterious man was. Nice.

You have to admit, it's been an entertaining season so far.

fondriest

oflahero wrote: »

buffalo wrote: »

I had to go look at the results to see who this mysterious man was. Nice.

You have to admit, it's been an entertaining season so far.

Eventful anyway !

fondriest

AstraMonti wrote: »

Wasn't that not supposed to happen this year? I remember reading somewhere that if you decided to upgrade then you stick with it for the whole year or something.

Yep I thought the same thing . I think from now on I'll ride A4 if it's sunny and maybe ride A1 if I'm the only one racing .

morana

Sorry chaps I didnt notice lets investigate this and see how that can happen.

morana

The race wasnt an A3 only race it was an A3/Vets and as the winner is an A1 with Vet on his licence he was able to ride. Had Greg Swinand, Martin O'Louglin etc been there they could have ridden it as well.

This is at the discretion of the race organiser.

thekidd147

Its the vets licence which is creating a loophole for some cyclists, some can use the vets licence to ride A3 races and the gorey and then after the gorey are able to get an A4 licence and collect handicap prizes like in the open races in mondello. They have points in both the A3 and A4 cycling ireland rankings, hard to stop if they can do this.

tawfeeredux

morana wrote: »

Had Greg Swinand, Martin O'Louglin etc been there they could have ridden it as well.

Pretty sure they'd be too embarrassed to do so though.

morana

thekidd147 wrote: »

Its the vets licence which is creating a loophole for some cyclists, some can use the vets licence to ride A3 races and the gorey and then after the gorey are able to get an A4 licence and collect handicap prizes like in the open races in mondello. They have points in both the A3 and A4 cycling ireland rankings, hard to stop if they can do this.

if you want to pm me details I can look at it. The Vets bit here is a CI classification not to be confused with the IVCA who are welcome in our races.

Its a decision of the organiser to have a vets race maybe a soultion would be that the Vets race should be separate from the A3/Elite race or an A3 vets race if you know what I mean? But this was one of the reasons for abilitiy grading a small handful of super vets and juniors getting all the points and prizes.

el tel

fondriest wrote: »

He seems to have pissed off quiet a few people , I'm not sure of the rules about this but I'm pretty sure if he broke them there will be nothing done about it . On a seperate but similar issue I see a lad riding the A4 race in New Ross on Sunday who earlier in the year had upgraded from A4. To A2 to ride the Gorey 3 day , he then obviously decided that he was better suited to A4 and seems to have regraded himself back down . This kind of stuff is really annoying because these lads are taking hard earned results off riders who are out doing their best every weekend .

This is interesting.

I was told at the weekend you remain in your Cat for 5 years (unless upgraded) so that would rule out dropping back down Categories even after a few years of absence.

Can anyone confirm?

morana

el tel wrote: »

This is interesting.

I was told at the weekend you remain in your Cat for 5 years (unless upgraded) so that would rule out dropping back down Categories even after a few years of absence.

Can anyone confirm?

i am not familiar with that rule.

BPMW

Just been told about this, and really enjoyed reading it.
Interesting list of accusations and insults from the usual suspects.

Some of you have your own agenda (eg Orwells DirkVoodoo after his League TT complaint a year or two back) - your all entitled to your opinion, and to be honest I dont really care.

I know most of you have never raced at A1 level (with exception of Anto, and I think LCRCs John Mc got as far as A2).

Anyway, Ill give the facts of the day (Anto got close)

I travelled to ride the A1 race (I am still able to Win the odd one at my age).

The commissaire inspected my licence at Sign-on and told us that the organiser was trying to run a Separate Veteran Race, and encouraged us to race.

I signed on the Veteran Sheet (Not A3 Sheet) as an A1.
This was the first chance I have had to race Veteran outside a Nationals in years.
I went back to the Commissaire twice before the race started to check with him

Small Numbers at the event saw all races combined.

I was only concerned with Winning The Veteran Cup - and the strongest riders in the race were Vets (Including a Strong Group from my ex Club).

Enjoyed the event , got the Win , and Ill race Vet (My Category) every chance I get.

Bren

RobFowl

My unerstanding is there is no Vets licence as far as CI is concerned (mine is an A4 with the cat Vet attached).
So all CI licences are ability rated.
Bit confused how the A1/2 got to ride an A3/4 race (he should be embarrassed tbh)

Lumen

RobFowl wrote: »

Bit confused how the A1/2 got to ride an A3/4 race

...

morana wrote: »

The race wasnt an A3 only race it was an A3/Vets

BPMW wrote: »

I signed on the Veteran Sheet (Not A3 Sheet) as an A1.

DirkVoodoo

BPMW wrote: »

...I know most of you have never raced at A1 level ...

Yeah, I suppose it's hard for people to develop and get promoted when the elite level cyclists among us keep dropping down and hoovering up prizes in A3 races.

RobFowl

BPMW wrote: »

JSome of you have your own agenda (eg Orwells DirkVoodoo after his League TT complaint a year or two back) - your all entitled to your opinion, and to be honest I dont really care.

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose it's hard for people to develop and get promoted when the elite level cyclists among us keep dropping down and hoovering up prizes in A3 races.

Know your place Dirk


(PS He's only jealous cos you prob slept with his wife )

Lumen

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Yeah, I suppose it's hard for people to develop and get promoted when the elite level cyclists among us keep dropping down and hoovering up prizes in A3 races.

Who is dropping down? This is a similar situation as Beasty getting dropped in with the women. It's up to the race organiser.

Beasty

Lumen wrote: »

Who is dropping down? This is a similar situation as Beasty getting dropped in with the women. It's up to the race organiser.

That was slightly different, as it was not an "Open Race"

There is a new category this year "Masters" which I believe can be combined with other categories (such as ladies) for racing. However if there is a "Masters" category the race cannot be open, as Masters encompasses both 50+ A4s and 50+ riding on a Club Competition licence

I did not believe there to be any "vets" categories of "open" races under the control of CI other than national vets championships, but then they are of course restricted to the specified age categories.

Beasty

<snip - quoted post now deleted>

OK, let's keep the discussion to the rules and not the individuals involved

Thanks

Beasty

RobFowl

@ Lumen As Beasty said there are no Open Vets races other than the National champs . All the rest are ability rated,

fondriest

I don't know the lad personally who won the race but from what Morana says about the rules not being broken and BPMW's own account of events I don't think there is anything to be " ashamed" about . Maybe some of us don't agree with it but that shouldn't be the issue .

Lumen

RobFowl wrote: »

@ Lumen As Beasty said there are no Open Vets races other than the National champs . All the rest are ability rated,

OK. I don't understand any of these rules, but surely the important point is that Bren turned up to a race, signed on the correct sheet and was allocated to a particular race by the organiser. What was he supposed to do, go home?

Maybe I've misunderstood.

morana

"I'm not sure of the rules about this but I'm pretty sure if he broke them there will be nothing done about it"

No this is not the case anybody who breaks the rules will be subject to the appropriate sanction.

morana

RobFowl wrote: »

@ Lumen As Beasty said there are no Open Vets races other than the National champs . All the rest are ability rated,

but the organiser can put on a Vets race as happened in Emyvale or decide on the day to have a vets race

tawfeeredux

Fine, maybe no rules were broken, & obviously race organizers are free to organize their races as they see fit, but it must be very frustrating for any A3 riders who travelled to Emyvale to compete against other riders of the same category only to find that a load of A1 & A2 vet riders have been lumped in with them cos they decided to put on a vets race too. I would suggest that rather than waiting in hope for the opportunity to race in CI events as a Vet, any rider (regardless of category) should get themselves along to the IVCA races that I believe are held every weekend & which I hear are pretty hard going too (though I accept that’s not for everyone).

Lumen

tawfeeredux wrote: »

I would suggest that rather than waiting in hope for the opportunity to race in CI events as a Vet, any rider (regardless of category) should get themselves along to the IVCA races that I believe are held every weekend & which I hear are pretty hard going too (though I accept that’s not for everyone).

Or the organiser could have given the rest of the field a 15 minute head start over the A1s.

A1s love time trials.

RobFowl

morana wrote: »

but the organiser can put on a Vets race as happened in Emyvale or decide on the day to have a vets race

They can but it's not an open race and shouldn't be run in conjunction with one (its akin to running a club race within an open one)

mark kiernan

im a vet and an a2 i rode the a1 a2 race 60 odd miles which they gave 4 prizes and no a2 prizes how crap is that?
no problem with brendan riding and winning the vets/a3 race he asked twice could he ride they said yes he won end of story as usuall its the a1 a2 s that get shafted

morana

mark kiernan wrote: »

im a vet and an a2 i rode the a1 a2 race 60 odd miles which they gave 4 prizes and no a2 prizes how crap is that?
no problem with brendan riding and winning the vets/a3 race he asked twice could he ride they said yes he won end of story as usuall its the a1 a2 s that get shafted

Why didnt you go in that one mark?

petethedrummer

the murky world of amateur racing. its a jungle out there kids. be careful.

mark kiernan

well i thought the the vets race was for the over 50 guys like they have up the north
also we ride the cat we are in ie a1 a2 in my case as we normally do
besides wouldnt beat brendan in a bunch gallop against mad a3 s

dave2pvd

morana, why is there not a CI rule that says promoters may not combine vets/masters with lower categories than the vet's actual category? A1 vets combining with an A3/A4 group makes no sense to me.

morana

dave2pvd wrote: »

morana, why is there not a CI rule that says promoters may not combine vets/masters with lower categories than the vet's actual category? A1 vets combining with an A3/A4 group makes no sense to me.

Honest answer is i dont know dAve. The reasoning behind the grading reshuffle was Ability. We didnt envisage that the vet or junior for that matter would reemerge however there is a good reason for junior cats in that a lot of brand new riders come into the junior ranks and these were thrown in with a3 but a good few were unsuitable so the rule was amended to allow them compete with a4 to get their legs. Congress decided that the junior cat be reintroduced i.e their own coloured back numbers and prizes.A lot of times these things arise and we react tbh.

In the past, earlier this season, there would usually be a masters race ie vets over 50 could compete alone or with ladies. We tend to give a lot of leeway to organisers and try not to interfere with the running of the races. I think your proposal is fine and to be honest with the exception of the national champs i thought that would have been the case.

Lets be clear the winner did nothing wrong here.

dave2pvd

morana wrote: »

We tend to give a lot of leeway to organisers and try not to interfere with the running of the races. I think your proposal is fine and to be honest with the exception of the national champs i thought that would have been the case.

I would also agree regarding Nats - age categories are fine for that event.

I would suggest that (as a race organizer) such rules/guidelines are perfectly fine. They would still allow combining in the event of small fields, yet keeping riders segregated based on ability.

Are CI race referees present at races (it's been a while, but iirc, they used to be)? In other words, is there someone to help guide the organizer with decisions like this?

morana

dave2pvd wrote: »

I would also agree regarding Nats - age categories are fine for that event.

I would suggest that (as a race organizer) such rules/guidelines are perfectly fine. They would still allow combining in the event of small fields, yet keeping riders segregated based on ability.

Are CI race referees present at races (it's been a while, but iirc, they used to be)? In other words, is there someone to help guide the organizer with decisions like this?

Yes there is a commisaire at each race and she/he could help implement something like this. Rules can be changed in 2 ways the first being by a motion at conference which is carried by the delegates and secondly the board can make a rule change in the interests of the sport.

kevinnatasha

I have seen alot of post over the years over Bren whelan winning bike races .as you all know you get nothing for nothing in cycling its all hard work .the man went by the rules and won the race ..I also see alot of post by people who never won a Bike race so it come down to one thing being (Jealous) the man is a Vet and has been winning races along time .so maybe instead of crying over your pc get out on your bike and do something for yourself in the sport ...or if not ..IF YOU CAN,T BEAT HIM JOIN HIM...the old Vet won another race last night ...

not sane

Lads if the person in question was abiding by the rules fair play. But did he not question himself when there was other Vets doing the A1/A2 race, I know myself if that was me I'd be embarrassed about it. At the end of the day, its a bit of crack and I think there are many people on here who take if far too serious. Lighten up will yeh.