Cheap Runaround - suggestions?

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hey all.

I'm going to be picking up a second car as it'll lessen the petrol bills of the S2000 & also will be handy to have extra space for people, animals & trips to Ikea.
The S2k is grand as a daily driver, but my mileage (300 miles per week) might be increasing - even if it stays the same, I'm putting €75 petrol into her per week.

Anyways, I need a motor that has the following:

• Cheap enough to buy - budget is prob €2000 - €2500 max
• Good MPG - most driving will be motorway
• As reliable as possible
• More than 2 seats :pac:
• Engine size of 1.6 MAXIMUM, preferably lower
• Decent space
• Anything else is a bonus
  

So, what would you recommend?

Max Power1

Peugot 406/407 hdi? The 407 comes in 1.6 diesel anyway. Should pick up an earlier model privately for 2k

ShadowHearth

406 1.8 or diesel. I linked one in bargain thread which was 1k asking price, but you could drop it.
I won't be alone to tell you how comfortable and how reliable these things are. I know tax is over 1.6, but you won't need to spend a fortune on car it self. 1.8 petrol andinge is very economical and 2.0 diesel is even better.

colm_mcm

Love how when someone is looking for a car smaller than 1.6 we always suggest bigger engines

Jimmy Bottlehead

In fairness, I'm wary that because I'm on the motorway a lot a smaller car might not be too economical at those speeds, but I'm open to correction there.

Remember lads, I'm not letting the side down, I am keeping the S2000!
Just need a cheap motor that I can pick up and run cheaply.

ShadowHearth

If you don't like the 406 idea then get one of these mk2 ford mondeo 1.6. I did a thread on it awile ago. Long story short: bought for 500eu, 200eu service, few things sorted out and nct, then drove a year and spend 35eu on wipers and mirror - nct for another year.

I was driving to Dublin airport - cork and at steady 120-130km/h I got almost 40 mpg.

Jimmy Bottlehead

At the moment I'm averaging 28-31 MPG in the S2k, so ~40MPG from the 406 or Mondeo isn't the step up I'm looking for... the 407 with the 1.6 engine is quoted as 57MPG, so even considering it's dropped to 50MPG, it's still a good step up.
Or am I missing something about the 406's economy?

A 106 or saxo diesel if you can put up with the small package would fit the bill nicely.

You would be mad not to get some sort of diesel at that mileage. you could nearly double your mpg rather than just getting a bit of improvement with another petrol.

Something like a 307 1.4hdi. They can be picked up cheap, the tax is low and they are extremly economical. My dad averages around 55mpg on his. Yes it slow as hell but its a nice comfortable car, good size (you couldnt live with a saxo etc everyday), have good spec usually (auto wipers, lights etc) and despite what you hear are have good reliability. He is on his 2nd one and has 260k kms on his current one from new. Only problems were wheel barings and the cat converter went recently which are really wear and tear items.

ShadowHearth

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

At the moment I'm averaging 28-31 MPG in the S2k, so ~40MPG from the 406 or Mondeo isn't the step up I'm looking for... the 407 with the 1.6 engine is quoted as 57MPG, so even considering it's dropped to 50MPG, it's still a good step up.
Or am I missing something about the 406's economy?

407 is a hit and miss reliability wise. I would better buy way cheaper 406 diesel 2.0 and on saved money pay the tax then.

E39msport ( boardsies name ) just bought one of these as runaround, ask him, he is very very happy with it. He could tell you better about real world mpg.

You're looking at potentially a two year period before the savings cover the expenses.

ShadowHearth

RoverJames wrote: »

You're looking at potentially a two year period before the savings cover the expenses.

That too. 28-32mpg is not that bad... Spending 2k on car then an extra insurance and tax bill. Will that be worth it?

If op does need a 4 door car then it would be thing to do, but if op is looking only to save money on petrol, then that can be a bad idea.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

You're looking at potentially a two year period before the savings cover the expenses.

You have to start somewhere though, if you keep putting it off you keep spending money on petrol and further extending how far away the savings are.

Also personally, Id rather pay 1 or 2k upfront from saving or whatever and reduce the weekly spend on fuel, even just psychologically its much nicer not to be forking out loads of money on fuel every week.

There is also the fact of keeping the miles and wear and tear down on the s2000. Its not a common car so having a good example for selling on will be a big help down the road.

ShadowHearth

Carson Many Threat wrote: »

You have to start somewhere though, if you keep putting it off you keep spending money on petrol and further extending how far away the savings are.

Also personally, Id rather pay 1 or 2k upfront from saving or whatever and reduce the weekly spend on fuel, even just psychologically its much nicer not to be forking out loads of money on fuel every week.

There is also the fact of keeping the miles and wear and tear down on the s2000. Its not a common car so having a good example for selling on will be a big help down the road.

You buy a car for yourself, so you can enjoy it as much as you want. Last thing I would ever be worried about is resale value and well being of next owner.

ShadowHearth

ShadowHearth wrote: »

You buy a car for yourself, so you can enjoy it as much as you want. Last thing I would ever be worried about is resale value and well being of next owner.

I'm not a person who worry's about the next owner at all, but its still no harm keeping it in mind. Even for your own driving its nicer to keep a car like that fresh rather than racking up miles commuting.

Doing 300 miles every week in a petrol car is madness, never mind a car like an s2000 which will be very heavy on petrol.

I drive cork-galway return fairly regularly. Its about 280 miles return, add in driving around home during the weekend that's at least 300 miles the weeks I go home. I'm doing it in a Golf GTI and only for the fact I dont do it every week I couldn't stomach the cost in fuel, bearing in mind on a long run like this fuel economy is better than on a commute type journey.

To be brutally honest, I wouldn't have bought the s2000 in the first place if I knew I was going to be doing 300 miles every week, same as I wouldn't have bought my own GTI if I was doing that sort of mileage every week.

Unless the miles increase over 300 per week I don't see the point in spending a grand or two up front and than having the associated costs of running two cars to half at best a 75 euro a week fuel bill.

Jimmy Bottlehead

ShadowHearth wrote: »

That too. 28-32mpg is not that bad... Spending 2k on car then an extra insurance and tax bill. Will that be worth it?

If op does need a 4 door car then it would be thing to do, but if op is looking only to save money on petrol, then that can be a bad idea.

Hmm... well I'm probably shooting a bit high with my budget. What I had in mind was (to put it bluntly) a cheap reliable ****box, ala a Toyota Carina or something similar. Hence, very cheap to buy, tax and insure.

Carson Many Threat wrote: »

You have to start somewhere though, if you keep putting it off you keep spending money on petrol and further extending how far away the savings are.

Also personally, Id rather pay 1 or 2k upfront from saving or whatever and reduce the weekly spend on fuel, even just psychologically its much nicer not to be forking out loads of money on fuel every week.

There is also the fact of keeping the miles and wear and tear down on the s2000. Its not a common car so having a good example for selling on will be a big help down the road.

The thing is, I do hold back driving the S2k a bit as I know it's my daily driver. With a second car, that'll suck up the long boring miles cheaply, and then I've
the S2k to drive properly when I'm in it.

The plan is to keep the S2k for good though - I can't see myself wanting to sell it, nor am I willing to let it go for nothing which is how things have gone here in Ireland. I'm not saving it for a second owner, but I would like to keep wear and tear down a bit if possible.

Carson Many Threat

Carson Many Threat wrote: »

.......

Doing 300 miles every week in a petrol car is madness, never mind a car like an s2000 which will be very heavy on petrol.

I drive cork-galway return fairly regularly.

But he's getting close to 30mpg from the car, its not very heavy on petrol at all.

smash

CRX... they get good mpg don't they?

Jimmy Bottlehead

smash wrote: »

CRX... they get good mpg don't they?

Mid-30's MPG plus they're an insurance nightmare.

smash

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Mid-30's MPG plus they're an insurance nightmare.

I was talking to an owner there 3 weeks ago and his insurance is next to nothing on it.

Gracie_S203

Nissan are always my choice of car...Almera are 1.5L petrol however on that milage a week..the petrol bill could be through the roof...the 307's come in 1.4 diesel and my brother in law swears by their one for fuel economy and reliability!!!!

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

But he's getting close to 30mpg from the car, its not very heavy on petrol at all.

The majority of people would count 30mpg as very heavy on petrol. I get around this myself and as I said I'm happy enough with that considering the amount of driving I do and the amount of fun the car is but it doesn't change the fact its heavy on petrol.

I would have to be getting 40mpg+ (in normal driving) to stay sane if I was doing 300 miles or even less than that every week without fail.

Tell my dad who gets 55mpg+ that 30mpg isn't heavy and he will fall over laughing. Any thing below high 30's I would call heavy personally.

smash wrote: »

CRX... they get good mpg don't they?

Unless he aims for a diesel which is going to almost double his mpg its not worth it imo, gaining 10mpg by changing to another petrol is pointless. Diesel is also cheaper to buy so savings are also greater than just in mpg.

Now, having defended the op's idea of buying a second car I dont know if I would do it myself. Personally I would probably sell the s2000 and buy a nice diesel with a bit of power, with mpg somewhere in the middle between the 30's in the s2000 and the high 50's from very under powered, small engined diesels. That said I have always had the idea of having a few cars at some point so maybe I would buy the cheap runabout, who knows.

Jimmy Bottlehead

As a side-note, I'm more than happy to move to diesel on this one!

Pdfile

how big a space do you actually need and does badges really matter ?


an s2k is so cool you could justify owning a skoda fabia or something rather uncool like that ( throw bbs's on it, be grand )

Jimmy Bottlehead

Pdfile wrote: »

how big a space do you actually need and does badges really matter ?


an s2k is so cool you could justify owning a skoda fabia or something rather uncool like that ( throw bbs's on it, be grand )

Not much space, its along the lines of being able to throw a big weekly shop into it, or something from Ikea. Anything bigger than a 2 seater convertible will do the job space-wise!

And I'm open to drive ANYTHING, whatever the badge or drivability. Like I said, I thought someone would have mentioned the famed Toyota Carina already :pac: And that WOULD be an option!

Pdfile

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3395396


classic boards marmite mobile...


miles are high and its over priced but surely everythings up for barter...

What mgg would you expect out of a 1.6 carina?

skyhighflyer

I would recommend a Saxo or 106 1.1. Amazingly economical, the 1.1 started life in the Peugeot 104 and is a very tough and well-proven engine. We had a Saxo for 8 years and never gave any bother once serviced. There's also a load of room if required as the back seats and bench fold flat, helped transport a friend's drumkit a few times no bother. They have a surprisingly high fifth gear so not too bad on the motorway.

Downsides: don't crash it.

Jimmy Bottlehead

RoverJames wrote: »

What mgg would you expect out of a 1.6 carina?

Quite honestly I don't know... I was mentioning it mainly because when someone wants a cheap old car that will go on forever, it's usually brought up.

smash

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

As a side-note, I'm more than happy to move to diesel on this one!

Sadist!

Jimmy Bottlehead

skyhighflyer wrote: »

I would recommend a Saxo or 106 1.1. Amazingly economical, the 1.1 started life in the Peugeot 104 and is a very tough and well-proven engine. We had a Saxo for 8 years and never gave any bother once serviced. There's also a load of room if required as the back seats and bench fold flat, helped transport a friend's drumkit a few times no bother. They have a surprisingly high fifth gear so not too bad on the motorway.

Downsides: don't crash it.

The Saxo diesel 1.5 was mentioned earlier and I'm warming to the idea... cheap, simple, seems to be a great suggestion. The MPG looks very good and owners report that you can even do better than the quoted 58MPG
Sadly the 1.1 is mid-40s while the diesel is high-50's so I'd go with diesel.

smash wrote: »

Sadist!

I like to think I'm taking one for the team :pac:

166man

If you're getting close to 30mpg y'ain't drivin' it right Jimmy!


The savings you could make doing 50mpg@25k km a year are quite substantial and would be recouped within about three years. Buying a diesel car for €1k should retain most of it's value too if you re NCT it before sale and it doesn't blow up on you.

It's a no-brainer for me anyway to recommend a diesel and even though there's higher tax I'd second the suggestion of a 406 diesel.

166man

166man wrote: »

..........
The savings you could make doing 50mpg@25k km a year are quite substantial and would be recouped within about three years. Buying a diesel car for €1k should retain most of it's value too if you re NCT it before sale and it doesn't blow up on you.

It's a no-brainer for me anyway to recommend a diesel and even though there's higher tax I'd second the suggestion of a 406 diesel.

I wasn't able to post any figures when I commented earlier, let's say JimmyB does do 25k kms in his bangernomics diesel, ignoring purchase price (as 166man mentioned the depreciation should be small enough, realistically €300 a year would be a practical figure imo though) the figures are the following (ish)...

Annual savings on fuel costs if the diesel returns 50 mpg compared to 30mpg in the S2000 are €1500.

Motor tax on the bangernomics yoke would range from €478 (for a 1.5 diesel) to €660 for a 2.0 diesel like a 406HDi, the ole 1.9 XUD yoke would be the same to tax I think, anyway, €1500 - €478 = €1022. We can sort of ignore maintenance costs (very crude strategy admittedly) if we buy into the logic that whatever wear and tear items need replacing on the 2nd car would have had to have been done on the S2000 if the miles were going on that, I've ran a fair few sh1tters and the catastrophic failure or uneconomical repair are few and far between. Also tyres and most consumables will be cheaper on the ole diesel

So we're looking at €1022 saved (maximum) after taxing the thing, more of course if you actually take the S2000 off the road for a month or two at a time.

Insurance is a huge variable but €500 might be realistic with mirroring I imagine.

So running a small diesel that returns 50mpg over 25 k miles will effectively reduce your running costs by €522/annum.

That €522 is after whatever the initial outlay is to buy the yoke and factoring in €0 depreciation. In reality you're looking at no financial saving I imagine unfortunately.

In my opinion it makes sense from a point of view of keeping the miles off the S2000 as Nox mentioned, it's not really a huge money saver.


But potential yokes to consider....

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3391171



No mention of NCT, 150,000 miles and the tax is €660/annum.



An NCTd until Feb Opel Vectra 1.7 diesel with 160k miles, asking €875....

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3364751




A 106 needing an NCT, asking €450 or €750 with an NCT
http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3197980

166man

I can't imagine that a Peugeot 106 would be the most comfortable way to spend over 500km's a week in tbh.

I agree with RJ's figures until the issue of insurance. Surely both cars could be put on one policy lessening the effect of the insurance premium?

What are you paying for insurance on the S2000 currently Jimmy?

166man

166man wrote: »

I can't imagine that a Peugeot 106 would be the most comfortable way to spend over 500km's a week in tbh.

Nor I, he wants the cheapest option though from what I can gather. If he gets a car costing €660 to tax than the saving is down to €300/year best case scenario.

166man wrote: »

I agree with RJ's figures until the issue of insurance. Surely both cars could be put on one policy lessening the effect of the insurance premium?

Two cars on one policy? Doubt that will happen in Ireland, mirroring the NCB onto a 2nd policy is the best option me thinks. Many insurers won't even accommodate that, one who will might not be as competitive as his current insurer on the S2000 either.

Jimmy Bottlehead

166man wrote: »

If you're getting close to 30mpg y'ain't drivin' it right Jimmy!

Believe me, I know :pac:

166man wrote: »

The savings you could make doing 50mpg@25k km a year are quite substantial and would be recouped within about three years. Buying a diesel car for €1k should retain most of it's value too if you re NCT it before sale and it doesn't blow up on you.

It's a no-brainer for me anyway to recommend a diesel and even though there's higher tax I'd second the suggestion of a 406 diesel.

At the moment, I'm doing 300 miles, but there's a possibility it'll increase at some stage, so if it does it definitely makes sense to me. I'll keep the 406 in mind

RoverJames wrote: »

I wasn't able to post any figures when I commented earlier, let's say JimmyB does do 25k kms in his bangernomics diesel, ignoring purchase price (as 166man mentioned the depreciation should be small enough, realistically €300 a year would be a practical figure imo though) the figures are the following (ish)...

Annual savings on fuel costs if the diesel returns 50 mpg compared to 30mpg in the S2000 are €1500.

Motor tax on the bangernomics yoke would range from €478 (for a 1.5 diesel) to €660 for a 2.0 diesel like a 406HDi, the ole 1.9 XUD yoke would be the same to tax I think, anyway, €1500 - €478 = €1022. We can sort of ignore maintenance costs (very crude strategy admittedly) if we buy into the logic that whatever wear and tear items need replacing on the 2nd car would have had to have been done on the S2000 if the miles were going on that, I've ran a fair few sh1tters and the catastrophic failure or uneconomical repair are few and far between. Also tyres and most consumables will be cheaper on the ole diesel

So we're looking at €1022 saved (maximum) after taxing the thing, more of course if you actually take the S2000 off the road for a month or two at a time.

Insurance is a huge variable but €500 might be realistic with mirroring I imagine.

So running a small diesel that returns 50mpg over 25 k miles will effectively reduce your running costs by €522/annum.

That €522 is after whatever the initial outlay is to buy the yoke and factoring in €0 depreciation. In reality you're looking at no financial saving I imagine unfortunately.

In my opinion it makes sense from a point of view of keeping the miles off the S2000 as Nox mentioned, it's not really a huge money saver.

As the mileage might increase a bit, the savings would probably work out higher. Also, one reason I'd prefer a smaller engined car is because my insurance will still not be too low - all going well, I'll have 2 years NCB to work with in August, but that's still not a huge amount, so I want to make it as cheap to insure as possible.

166man wrote: »

I can't imagine that a Peugeot 106 would be the most comfortable way to spend over 500km's a week in tbh.

I agree with RJ's figures until the issue of insurance. Surely both cars could be put on one policy lessening the effect of the insurance premium?

What are you paying for insurance on the S2000 currently Jimmy?

Hopefully my insurer will be accommodating if and when I want to have another car on the policy.
Currently paying €2500 or so on the S2000, so it's rough as hell. I'm sure that'd come down a fair whack if I got a main second car, and the S2000 was on limited mileage.

RoverJames wrote: »

Nor I, he wants the cheapest option though from what I can gather. If he gets a car costing €660 to tax than the saving is down to €300/year best case scenario.

Aye, the cheaper the better. By having the S2000 I'm putting my heart ahead of my head. With this small diesel, I'm only thinking of savings.

berrycherry

Hi i would REALLY suggest a Nissan almera hatchback 1.5 petrol... i had one and in three years the only thing to replace was window wipers and tires.... you'd prob get a 04 model for your budget! and they are absolutely brilliant on petrol... i live in westmeath and i could do sligo and home for 20euro. When i owned it about 7 months ago. And they are really nice to drive and have lovely interiors

Jimmy Bottlehead

berrycherry wrote: »

Hi i would REALLY suggest a Nissan almera hatchback 1.5 petrol... i had one and in three years the only thing to replace was window wipers and tires.... you'd prob get a 04 model for your budget! and they are absolutely brilliant on petrol... i live in westmeath and i could do sligo and home for 20euro. When i owned it about 7 months ago. And they are really nice to drive and have lovely interiors

Good suggestion.. but MPG only seems to be about 42 or so... and I'd like higher than that.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

That €522 is after whatever the initial outlay is to buy the yoke and factoring in €0 depreciation. In reality you're looking at no financial saving I imagine unfortunately.

If your initial outlay was around 1000 to 1500 and you intend keeping up having the two cars long term, he would start to make savings after 2 years or so. It would depend how long term his plans are.

I said it in another post but the most logical way to save money but have a car with a bit of poke is sell the s2000 and buy a powerful diesel for the same money or a bit more. This will save on insurance and running costs. I'm not saying its what I would do or what you should do Jimmy but its actually the logical thing.

I put 87 euro of petrol in my car last friday drove Cork to galway and then back monday morning, parked the car since (well maybe about 3 miles of driving to the shops etc) and I wont get back to Galway again this weekend without filling up so I'm not really one to promote logical thinking

Logical would be get the bus for 20 euro return, but I cant stand the bus, hate the thought of it even.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

You're looking at potentially a two year period before the savings cover the expenses.

Carson Many Threat wrote: »

If your initial outlay was around 1000 to 1500 and you intend keeping up having the two cars long term, he would start to make savings after 2 years or so. It would depend how long term his plans are.

.........

I said that yesterday.
You have to be realistic about the longevity of a cheap car too, there gets a point where putting a set of tyres and an NCT makes them effectively worth nothing and they don't last forever either.
After 4 years there is potential for a tad over a grand in savings, presuming an insurance company plays ball, I'd be investigating that first.

RoverJames

RoverJames wrote: »

I said that yesterday.
You have to be realistic about the longevity of a cheap car too, there gets a point where putting a set of tyres and an NCT makes them effectively worth nothing and they don't last forever either.

I suppose the way to go about it is to try to change car every so often for little of no outlay if possible. It wouldn't be easy and you could end up with a lemon at some point but it would be one way to go about it.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Bumping this as I'm going down this route... but with a very cheap car.

I like the idea of a 1.5L diesel Saxo or 106, but what other super cheap (€500-€800) cars to buy and run are out there?

Any suggestions would be mighty, lads Cheers.

bazz26

Cheap to run cars especially diesels generally cost more to buy these days because of their mass appeal. Imo the only sub €1000 cheap to run diesel cars out there are knackered ones on their last legs or ones that need money spent on them.

Jimmy Bottlehead

bazz26 wrote: »

Cheap to run cars especially diesels generally cost more to buy these days because of their mass appeal. Imo the only sub €1000 cheap to run diesel cars out there are knackered ones on their last legs or ones that need money spent on them.

Any suggestions on which ones would be worth looking into though?

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3934855

1.9 tax but f all cost to buy

Asking €350.

MidlandsM

Max Power1 wrote: »

Peugot 406/407 hdi? The 407 comes in 1.6 diesel anyway. Should pick up an earlier model privately for 2k

pure scrap........one of the worst diesel engines made

MidlandsM

MidlandsM wrote: »

pure scrap........one of the worst diesel engines made

Yep, you'd be very much taking your chances with one 2nd hand as even with full SH they give turbo turbo relatively fresh. The Uncle is on his 2nd and no trouble but that's in new ish cars.

I'd be very slow to advise anyone to buy one.

I know one or two lads in car sales that won't retail anything with the PSA 1.6 unless they have thousands built in for warranty issues and they prefer not to take them in too.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Guys can I get your thoughts on this?

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3888338

MidlandsM

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Guys can I get your thoughts on this?

http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/3888338

yep, I'd buy that!
good weee yoke......:pac:
do the usual checks.....make sure the clutch ain't slipping, its running sweet, no leaks, starts stop and brakes A1 and you could be onto a weee bargain!

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hello, zombie thread

So I'm finally biting the bullet and putting the S2000 into storage from the end of July. This is to save on tax mainly, as I'm doing very little driving these days.

I'm going to buy a super-cheap car to tide me over til early 2015 anyways. This is really bangernomics territory, ideally I'd like to spend no more than €500 on a car.
Not fussy about what it is, once it's reliable, decent wedge of NCT, has 4 seats and is a 1.6 or below for tax costs.

I've made a wee list from DoneDeal but if anyone has any finds I'd love to see them

Cheers guys!