Celtic considering pulling out of Thomond Park Tournament

PomBear

Celtic, Thomond Park, the FAI and a bit of a row. What's going on?


Celtic, one of the best supported soccer teams in the country, are about to pull out of a pre-season tournament in Limerick because of the FAI. What’s going on?
In recent years we have been spoiled by big teams coming to Ireland to prepare for the new season. Real Madrid, Manchester City and Inter Milan are just three of the sides who have come to Ireland in recent years and while we all wish more fans went to Airtricity League games, these friendly tournaments do help grow the fanbase of soccer in the country.
But we are headed to a bit of a disaster this summer if reports in the Sunday Times are to be believed. Celtic, who were here last summer as part of the Dublin Super Cup, were due to return this year to play in a four-team tournament based in Thomond Park in Limerick.
Newly crowned European champions Chelsea were also supposed to take part in the event in late July but it seems the FAI have refused to sanction the event, angering the Glasgow club and the organisers, Iconic Worldwide Events, run by Clare man Damien O’Brien.
Celtic have issued a deadline of the middle of next week for the FAI to change their mind or else they will look elsewhere to play their pre-season games.
The paper also quotes Celtic chief executive Peter Lawwell who says he spoke to FAI head honcho John Delaney on the phone about it but Delaney “said that he was very busy with the European Championships and he would get back to me”.
But if Celtic are mad, organiser O’Brien is fuming, especially as Thomond Park’s stadium director John Cantwell revealed that the reason the FAI were reluctant to approve the Thomond event because they wanted to hold their own tournament in Aviva Stadium.
O’Brien slammed Aviva as “very expensive”, claiming it was “four times as expensive as Wembley Stadium” to hire and run.
O’Brien has also vowed to press ahead with the event in Limerick, citing TV contracts that were already in place.
So will Irish fans get any visiting teams this summer? It is hard to tell but by the sounds of it, don’t dig out your Celtic scarf just yet.

http://www.joe.ie/football/football-news/celtic-thomond-park-the-fai-and-a-bit-of-a-row-whats-going-on-0024935-1

Chelsea in there too, FAI could do with a bit of money coming in, no?

GLaDOS

I read somewhere that the FAI wouldn't sanction it.

It doesn't involve any Irish teams so there's no benefit from that angle. Also, they'd rather it be played in the Aviva so they can pay off more of their debt.

Mushy

Saw something bout this in the Limerick Leader the other day. FAI aren't allowing it, citing they have their own event lined up that weekend.

ShamoBuc

Would they have to sanction it? If it is being run 'privately' and no Irish team are in it?

stovelid

FAI broke so they don't want any of these tournaments arranged unless they run them.

And as for "these friendly tournaments do help grow the fanbase of soccer in this country". LOL.

kitakyushu

ScienceNerd wrote: »

I read somewhere that the FAI wouldn't sanction it.

It doesn't involve any Irish teams so there's no benefit from that angle. Also, they'd rather it be played in the Aviva so they can pay off more of their debt.

Agreed. Sounds to me like the FAI want themselves and their stadium to be the only show in town when it comes to presenting big matches in this country (almost a necessity for them at this point I'd imagine?)

monkey9

Seems just more of the same from the FAI after they wouldn't sanction the Barca friendly in Limerick a couple of seasons ago!

Oat23

Didn't they block a Limerick FC v Barcelona friendly a few years ago too?

What sh*te people we have running football in this country.

leeroybrown

Purely money. As far as I remember they've some form of commercial deal that requires all games requiring a venue of 20,000 or more to be transferred to Lansdowne Rd with their official agreed sponsorship rights. As usual they've signed away the money...

GLaDOS

monkey9 wrote: »

Seems just more of the same from the FAI after they wouldn't sanction the Barca friendly in Limerick a couple of seasons ago!

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Didn't they block a Limerick FC v Barcelona friendly a few years ago too?

What sh*te people we have running football in this country.

That was way worse, as it would have directly benefited an Irish club, not the case here.

leeroybrown

Oatesy23 wrote: »

Didn't they block a Limerick FC v Barcelona friendly a few years ago too?

Same situation as I pointed out above.

Oat23

ScienceNerd wrote: »

That was way worse, as it would have directly benefited an Irish club, not the case here.

It costs €1m to play Barca in a summer friendly now. It was amazing that Limerick were offered the chance to play them and the FAI went and ruined it.

ArmaniJeanss

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Would they have to sanction it? If it is being run 'privately' and no Irish team are in it?

Yes, every match played in Ireland (or any country) needs the sanction of the FAI (the FA of whichever country its in).

Any clubs or players playing in an unsanctioned match would be just about the most major breach of FIFA rules imaginable, so wouldn't happen.

bohsfan

So this company (Iconic Worldwide Events) want to arrange a tournament in Thomond Park, which has (seemingly) no connection to the FAI or a local club. Presumably, any money made from this would be shared between the teams taking part and the organising events company.

A local club, or indeed the FAI, would not see any money from an event such as this. Even the money it would cost to rent the stadium would go to the IRFU.

Is it any wonder the FAI refuse to sanction it?

stovelid

Why have posts been removed from this thread?

AnCapaillMor

Christ forgot about the barca game, Yeah they screwed over limerick with the barca game. As far i can remember the FAI are in some deal with some crowd and only they can set up tourneys\games like this in ireland.

stovelid

In fairness, you can see why the FAI are not going to allow a tournament involving no Irish teams (and not even in a football ground) to run under their jurisdiction. It was the interference in the Limerick/Barca game that stuck in the craw.

Friendlies with visiting teams are traditionally a big cash cow for domestic clubs and it would be said to see the FAI muscling in on that.

SEPT 23 1989

Is the Dublin Super Cup going ahead this year?

meriwether

bohsfan wrote: »

So this company (Iconic Worldwide Events) want to arrange a tournament in Thomond Park, which has (seemingly) no connection to the FAI or a local club. Presumably, any money made from this would be shared between the teams taking part and the organising events company.

A local club, or indeed the FAI, would not see any money from an event such as this. Even the money it would cost to rent the stadium would go to the IRFU.

Is it any wonder the FAI refuse to sanction it?

The local region could benefit.

I fail to see why the FAI refuses to sanction this, if its costing it nothing.

CiaranC

meriwether wrote: »

The local region could benefit.

I fail to see why the FAI refuses to sanction this, if its costing it nothing.

Why would they allow a private company to come in and run a football tournament of no benefit to Irish football?

bohsfan

meriwether wrote: »

The local region could benefit.

I fail to see why the FAI refuses to sanction this, if its costing it nothing.

Of course the local region would benefit to some extent, however- that's not really the point.

If the FAI is organising its own Summer tournament, then any other big tournament going on could impact in ticket sales or on the teams that they would be able to attract.

While I thought the decision to KO the Barcelona game by the FAI was a travesty of a decision, I can totally see why they would not endorse something like this.

CSF

For once the FAI seem to be in the right

Mal-Adjusted

In fairness, if it's being held in Limerick, then Limerick F.C. should be involved. there isn't enough interest to fill Lansdowne, which is so expensive to rent that it'll never go there (if the Sunday times are to be trusted, it costs 4X as much as Wembley!).
This could be a much needed boon to the local economy and it's pretty ironic that only recently the FAI were touting Thomond Park as a possible venue for Euro 2020.

Bob the Seducer

CiaranC wrote: »

Why would they allow a private company to come in and run a football tournament of no benefit to Irish football?

The private company organising the event is run by a Clareman, Damien O'Brien. Why shouldn't he be allowed bring a tournament to his part of the country?

Of course, I'm sure the FAI's stance has absolutely nothing to do with the fact that they were apparently looking for rental fees in the region of €500,000 to hold it in the Aviva.

stovelid

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

The private company organising the event is run by a Clareman, Damien O'Brien. Why shouldn't he be allowed bring a tournament to his part of the country?.

The FAI are - allegedly - tasked with the promotion of domestic and international football in this country and making money for same. I fail to see why they should okay a tournament involving no Irish teams in a rugby stadium.

Bob the Seducer

stovelid wrote: »

The FAI are - allegedly - tasked with the promotion of domestic and international football in this country and making money for same. I fail to see why they should okay a tournament involving no Irish teams in a rugby stadium.

Then why don't they have a process in place for sanctioning these types of tournament, say a fixed licensing fee which anyone can pay in order to hold one?
It's of little benefit to the LoI for the FAI to throw together a Select XI of players from teams not involved in European competition and send them out to get hockeyed by a touring side in pre season training, yet that's been the previous m.o. I'd rather if teams here focused on the important stuff (league, cup, and Europe) rather than running the risk of injury to key players in a nothing game.

If the FAI were feeling altruistic (which is unlikely) they could even put the licensing fees received towards the league's prize money fund, putting money directly back into the game in this country as a result of hosting this type of tournament.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mal-Adjusted wrote: »

In fairness, if it's being held in Limerick, then Limerick F.C. should be involved. there isn't enough interest to fill Lansdowne, which is so expensive to rent that it'll never go there (if the Sunday times are to be trusted, it costs 4X as much as Wembley!).
This could be a much needed boon to the local economy and it's pretty ironic that only recently the FAI were touting Thomond Park as a possible venue for Euro 2020.

Were they ?

Are you not getting the FAI mixed up with some of the dreamers on this forum ?

stovelid

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

Then why don't they have a process in place for sanctioning these types of tournament, say a fixed licensing fee which anyone can pay in order to hold one?
It's of little benefit to the LoI for the FAI to throw together a Select XI of players from teams not involved in European competition and send them out to get hockeyed by a touring side in pre season training, yet that's been the previous m.o. I'd rather if teams here focused on the important stuff (league, cup, and Europe) rather than running the risk of injury to key players in a nothing game.

If the FAI were feeling altruistic (which is unlikely) they could even put the licensing fees received towards the league's prize money fund, putting money directly back into the game in this country as a result of hosting this type of tournament.

To be fair, that's a decent idea but I'm not sure of the financial sense of it. IIRC the Super Cup thingy last year was poorly attended so I wonder would an organizer see much profit from a tournament in a 20k (?) seater staidum like Thomand after paying a license fee.

CSF

Bob the Seducer wrote: »

stovelid wrote: »

The FAI are - allegedly - tasked with the promotion of domestic and international football in this country and making money for same. I fail to see why they should okay a tournament involving no Irish teams in a rugby stadium.

Then why don't they have a process in place for sanctioning these types of tournament, say a fixed licensing fee which anyone can pay in order to hold one?
It's of little benefit to the LoI for the FAI to throw together a Select XI of players from teams not involved in European competition and send them out to get hockeyed by a touring side in pre season training, yet that's been the previous m.o. I'd rather if teams here focused on the important stuff (league, cup, and Europe) rather than running the risk of injury to key players in a nothing game.

If the FAI were feeling altruistic (which is unlikely) they could even put the licensing fees received towards the league's prize money fund, putting money directly back into the game in this country as a result of hosting this type of tournament.

Because these kind of tournaments shouldn't be sanctioned.

Mal-Adjusted

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Were they ?

Are you not getting the FAI mixed up with some of the dreamers on this forum ?

it's possible that the Sunday times may be... they said that Thomond was mentioned by Delaney as a possible venue.

Helix

i see the standard of writing over on joe.ie is still as wonderful as ever

In recent years we have been spoiled by big teams coming to Ireland to prepare for the new season. Real Madrid, Manchester City and Inter Milan are just three of the sides who have come to Ireland in recent years and while we all wish more fans went to Airtricity League games, these friendly tournaments do help grow the fanbase of soccer in the country.

i genuinely couldn't make it past that - it's like a bloody 4th class english essay

kitakyushu

In recent years we have been spoiled by big teams coming to Ireland to prepare for the new season. Real Madrid, Manchester City and Inter Milan are just three of the sides who have come to Ireland in recent years and while we all wish more fans went to Airtricity League games, these friendly tournaments do help grow the fanbase of soccer in the country.....

.... of Real Madrid, Manchester City and Inter Milan.

meriwether

kitakyushu wrote: »

.... of Real Madrid, Manchester City and Inter Milan.

Invited over by the FAI.

stovelid

Platinum 1 ran the Madrid match - much to the displeasure of the FAI.

I'd be surprised if they sanctioned something else like that again.

Bob the Seducer

stovelid wrote: »

To be fair, that's a decent idea but I'm not sure of the financial sense of it. IIRC the Super Cup thingy last year was poorly attended so I wonder would an organizer see much profit from a tournament in a 20k (?) seater staidum like Thomand after paying a license fee.

Attendances for last year's Super Cup were somewhere around the capacity of Thomond (c. 25000) I believe. A full ground half the size of Lansdowne would be a more attractive proposition for organisers (and tv) than the way things worked out with last year's Super Cup and Nations Cup.

In the most basic sense, 20,000 x 4 games x €20 = €1.6m
(€800,000 if you're doing a two for one deal)
Add in a tournament title sponsor (like the Carlsberg Trophy of old) plus the sale of tv rights and that's a tidy gross income to deduct costs from.

You could probably charge somewhere in the region of €100,000 to license the thing and avoid too many complaints.

I wouldn't expect much of a knock on (either positive or negative) to the domestic game in the region from hosting this type of tournament. Galway lost their main club for all intents and purposes this year, Clare, Tipperary and Kerry don't have League of Ireland sides and Limerick have been stuck down in the Discover Ireland division for over a decade. A tournament like this is basically for event junkies. Dunmanway Town vs a Liverpool reserve XI drew in the region of 7000 a few years ago at €40 a ticket.

_blank_

But a tournament in Limerick wouldn't attract 25k people.

stovelid

25k attendance in Dublin may not be 25k attendance in Limerick.

Wasn't the Ireland friendly in Thomond about 2 years ago a bit of a flop?

_blank_

stovelid wrote: »

25k attensance in Dublin may not be 25k attendance in Limerick.

Wasn't the Ireland friendly in Thomand about 2 years ago a bit of a flop?

It was against Australia, the FAI tried to trick the locals into thinking it was a game of egg chasing :pac:

Mal-Adjusted

The Australian national side wouldn't attract anywhere near the number of people a selection of high profile European club teams would.

kitakyushu

Des wrote: »

It was against Australia, the FAI tried to trick the locals into thinking it was a game of egg chasing :pac:

.... and then had a second game against ..... South Africa. No coincidence I'm betting! :pac:

That game was an even bigger flop 11-12k iirc. Possibly the lowest attendance for any Ireland home game in probably 20-30 years (not counting games where then venue was less than 12k to begin with eg Tolka)?

Helix

CiaranC wrote: »

Why would they allow a private company to come in and run a football tournament of no benefit to Irish football?

why should they be able to have a say in it? as you say, it's got nothing to do with irish football

kippy

I'm not sure how I stand on this. Personally, I think that there is no reason why a private individual should not be able to promote an entertainment event such as this, once they get the figures right.
Theres no loss to the local economy, no lose to the local sporting organisations, the fans get what they want etc etc........
As for the capacity issues, this is a private individual who seems to have come to the conclusion that it is economically sound to stage this even in Limerick. If it doesn't make money, he loses out.

The FAI are plainly only willing to back something that will assist them paying of the debts of redeveloping Landsdowne Road. We've seen in the past that they have stopped big clubs from playing here.
Don't get me started, btw, on the irony of an organisation that pays it's head guy in excess of 400K, trying to stop private individuals from making some money out of an event such as this.......

Bob the Seducer

Des wrote: »

But a tournament in Limerick wouldn't attract 25k people.

26,000 requested tickets for that Liverpool reserve friendly I mentioned earlier.

It depends on what teams are brought over and what price level the tickets are set at as much as anything else. Stand tickets for the Australia friendly were €55. I doubt many of the 19428 who attended that game came back for the South Africa one after seeing us get turned over 3-0 by the Aussies.

CSF

Helix wrote: »

CiaranC wrote: »

Why would they allow a private company to come in and run a football tournament of no benefit to Irish football?

why should they be able to have a say in it? as you say, it's got nothing to do with irish football

Because the clubs involved are members of UEFA and FIFA meaning any football they play has to be sanctioned, and it falls under the FAI's jurisdiction who are right to look after the best interests of football in this country.

kippy

CSF wrote: »

Because the clubs involved are members of UEFA and FIFA meaning any football they play has to be sanctioned, and it falls under the FAI's jurisdiction who are right to look after the best interests of football in this country.

Can you tell me how this isn't in the best interests of football in this country?
It's not like its a completely different sport that will take away from the fan base etc?
Celtic are one of the best supported clubs in Ireland.

_blank_

kippy wrote: »

Can you tell me how this isn't in the best interests of football in this country?
It's not like its a completely different sport that will take away from the fan base etc?
Celtic are one of the best supported clubs in Ireland.

What would it do for football in this country?

kippy

Des wrote: »

What would it do for football in this country?

What would it do to harm it?
It's a high profile event, with Soccer splayed all over the place. Its not like they are bringing Celtic over to play Rugby now is it?

Helix

CSF wrote: »

Because the clubs involved are members of UEFA and FIFA meaning any football they play has to be sanctioned, and it falls under the FAI's jurisdiction who are right to look after the best interests of football in this country.

do they have to sanction training matches?

sure they can just change a rule or 2, say make it perfectly ok for a player to pick the ball up, but tell the players they're not to do it. it wouldn't be association football any more, it'd be something else, and uefa, fifa and the fai would have no say

Bob the Seducer

Des wrote: »

What would it do for football in this country?

What damage would be caused by letting people who already support Celtic or Chelsea watch them play a game in the west of Ireland?

stovelid

Marquee events like rovers and Madrid would do more to attract kids to domestic football.

Fair enough they can't be forced to go but the football organisation tasked with promoting the game here should be doing just that.

Although in this case, It's right decision, wrong motive as It's really because the FAI want to run their own tournaments with visiting teams.

Mal-Adjusted

Des wrote: »

What would it do for football in this country?

Lads, let's not pretend that that is even the issue here. If this tournament was proposed for Lansdowne, the FAI would be all over it like a fly on 5h1t3 and we all know it.
But because it's in Thomond, and it won't go towards paying off a massive debt the FAI got themselves into, they're saying no. basically "if we can't have it, nobody can" mentality that is sickening.

it provides an opportunity for people who normally wouldn't get to see these teams to enjoy them. when you're the 5th sport in a country, you can't afford to be picky.