Is Atheism a religion?

DuPLeX

Statistician wrote: »

'Gnostic Atheism' is a religion.

Where do I sign up ? :pac:

Zombrex

DuPLeX wrote: »

I don't feel its important enough to warrant a name. To name and define is to limit ,It seems that most people believe only two possibilities exist, either god exists or He/She/it does not .. I don't

Can you describe which of the religious claims concerning a deity made by other humans that you do believe are true?

givepress

givepress wrote: »

well it's basically an argument believer's always make and is probably the best one they have.. like this.

Believer :Do you believe in absolute truth
Atheist: No
Believer: Are you absolutely sure.
Atheist: Yes
Believer: that is an absolute truth.

so you see it's a trick, you say no then you are making an absolute truth statement.
If you say yes then you have to agree with them.

By doing this they can basically dismiss science and everything man has thought of because it's relative.
#so my question was can something be an absolute truth.?

DuPLeX

Zombrex wrote: »

Can you describe which of the religious claims concerning a deity made by other humans that you do believe are true?

I don't care about Deities.... they are for other people . You seem pretty concerned about them though ..

Statistician

givepress wrote: »

#so my question was can something be an absolute truth.?

No, because we have human perception.
2+2=5

givepress

Statistician wrote: »

No, because we have human perception.
2+2=5

So what is the best way to respond to an argument like this can you give an analogy

DuPLeX

oldrnwisr wrote: »

You're railing against atheism and atheists and yet you are one. Cap fits.

Now, so that we can actually resolve this discussion, can you please define religion as you see it and show how atheism fulfills this definition?

No I don't wear a cap.You can call me an Atheist if you like , it does not make me one !
A religion as I see it is a predigested world view which is adopted by people who are too lazy to figure the world out for themselves or too afraid to live with unanswered questions .the older ones usually involve some sort of Prophet and/or Deity But these and increasingly redundant as scientific doctrines seem to be the new way

The Mad Hatter

Statistician wrote: »

'Gnostic Atheism' is a religion.

No it isn't, but it's also so rare as to be not worth discussing.

Gbear

DuPLeX wrote: »

No I don't wear a cap.You can call me an Atheist if you like , do not make me one !
A religion as I see it is a predigested world view which is adopted by people who are too lazy to figure the world out for themselves or too afraid to live with unanswered questions .the older ones usually involve some sort of Prophet and/or Deity But these and increasingly redundant as scientific doctrines seem to be the new way

This kind of condescending pseudo-intellectual bull**** really is almost beneath contempt.

Literally all Atheism means is that you have not received sufficient evidence to cause you to believe in a god. THAT IS IT.

Can you read? Probably. Rather, i think you're willfully ignoring what has been explained so far so you can stay on top of your great pillar of superiority.

Zombrex

DuPLeX wrote: »

I don't care about Deities.... they are for other people .

Then you are an atheist Sherlock.

It is that simple. You can object all you like but that doesn't change the English langage or the meaning of words. You are acting like someone saying they don't eat any meat but they aren't a vegetarian cause they don't like "labels". How old are you? This strikes me all as teenage rebellion nonsense. What next? You going to start saying that just because you have human DNA doesn't mean you are a "human" cause you don't want to get defined by species definitions. Who are we to tell you that you can't be a tree or a spider, you can be what ever you want to be! Stop oppressing me! :rolleyes:

This tread gets dumber by the hour. There isn't an emoticon to sum up how much your posts facepalm.

pauldla

Statistician wrote: »

Faith is only one aspect of religion.

Take the faith out of religion and what are you left with?

Penn

DuPLeX wrote: »

No I don't wear a cap.You can call me an Atheist if you like , do not make me one !
A religion as I see it is a predigested world view which is adopted by people who are too lazy to figure the world out for themselves or too afraid to live with unanswered questions .the older ones usually involve some sort of Prophet and/or Deity But these and increasingly redundant as scientific doctrines seem to be the new way

Well then you're basing your claims on what you to perceive to be religion rather than what it actually is. Not to mention the fact that the reason many of us are atheists is because we did want to figure the world out for ourselves and are not afraid to live with unanswered questions. I didn't choose to become an atheist. I simply tried to make sense of everything for myself, how I saw it. That led me to believe that there is no god, and that there are unanswered questions out there, but that's okay, as the true joy is in discovering the answers.

You're basing your opinions on a) your own idea of what religion is, and b) your own opinion on atheists. Doesn't mean it's right. In fact, I would easily throw that back on you and say that from you posts on this thread, you seem too lazy to try and even accept the fact that your position might be wrong, and to find out the correct answers. You've done nothing but stuck to your own opinions which are based solely on your own opinions. Rejecting the notion that you're an atheist when that's what you are. Reject the term all you like, that's what you are.

Sorry, but your argument is deeply flawed.

mathepac

frozenfrozen wrote: »

its a belief system ...

I agree with the first bit - it's a belief system, just as organised religions have their belief systems, so atheism has its own belief system.

This belief system seems to evidence itself on boards.ie primarily by (purported) atheists pouring scorn on belief systems other than their own, so there seems to be very little of a positive nature to recommend it

DuPLeX

Penn wrote: »

Well then you're basing your claims on what you to perceive to be religion rather than what it actually is. Not to mention the fact that the reason many of us are atheists is because we did want to figure the world out for ourselves and are not afraid to live with unanswered questions. I didn't choose to become an atheist. I simply tried to make sense of everything for myself, how I saw it. That led me to believe that there is no god, and that there are unanswered questions out there, but that's okay, as the true joy is in discovering the answers.

You're basing your opinions on a) your own idea of what religion is, and b) your own opinion on atheists. Doesn't mean it's right. In fact, I would easily throw that back on you and say that from you posts on this thread, you seem too lazy to try and even accept the fact that your position might be wrong, and to find out the correct answers. You've done nothing but stuck to your own opinions which are based solely on your own opinions. Rejecting the notion that you're an atheist when that's what you are. Reject the term all you like, that's what you are.

Sorry, but your argument is deeply flawed.

everything you just stated is equally true of you! your opinions on atheism or religion are no more valid than mine.
And Its more than a little arrogant to try to apply a label to me that I have already rejected.

Zombrex

mathepac wrote: »

I agree with the first bit - it's a belief system, just as organised religions have their belief systems, so atheism has its own belief system.

Belief 1 - The claims of religions do not have enough evidence to support believing in them

Belief 2 - ????

Name the second belief of atheism. Otherwise how can it be a "system" if there is only one belief.

Delirium

mathepac wrote: »

I agree with the first bit - it's a belief system, just as organised religions have their belief systems, so atheism has its own belief system.

This belief system seems to evidence itself on boards.ie primarily by (purported) atheists pouring scorn on belief systems other than their own, so there seems to be very little of a positive nature to recommend it

what is the system of beliefs of atheism?

Statistician

pauldla wrote: »

Take the faith out of religion and what are you left with?

Ritual, (going to Mass etc) community, etc.. Many Catholics are really Atheists.

It's an interesting question really because it shows that you can have religion without faith. Could this also mean that Atheism could, in fact be a religion? (and not just Gnostic Atheism)

Penn

DuPLeX wrote: »

everything you just stated is equally true of you

No, I'm basing my opinions on the actual meanings of words. The actual meaning of the word religion. The actual meaning of the word atheist. That's the direct opposite of what you're doing.

Gbear

Statistician wrote: »

Ritual, (going to Mass etc) community, etc.. Many Catholics are really Atheists.

It's an interesting question really because it shows that you can have religion without faith. Could this also mean that Atheism could, in fact be a religion? (and not just Gnostic Atheism)

That needn't mean that religion is still religion without faith. It could also mean that religion does comprise other non-critical elements that have arisen due to it's communal nature.

So - someone in solitary confinement in prison, who would be incapable of participating in any communal aspects of religion as a result, could be given a bible and "find jesus" - you couldn't really argue he wasn't religious.

You're assuming that people have religion without faith. If they're just going through the motions and/or doing it purely for social reasons then I would argue they are not then religious.

pauldla

Statistician wrote: »

Ritual, (going to Mass etc) community, etc.. Many Catholics are really Atheists.

So, if you take faith out of religion, you are left with lots of people sitting in a room on Sunday morning?

It's an interesting question really because it shows that you can have religion without faith. Could this also mean that Atheism could, in fact be a religion? (and not just Gnostic Atheism)

How does the question show that you can have religion without faith? You're going to have to explain that one to me again, I'm afraid.

DuPLeX

Penn wrote: »

No, I'm basing my opinions on the actual meanings of words. The actual meaning of the word religion. The actual meaning of the word atheist. That's the direct opposite of what you're doing.

actual meaning or dictionary definition ?

Penn

DuPLeX wrote: »

actual meaning or dictionary definition ?

Same thing. Actual meaning of any word is the dictionary definition of the word.

seamus

Statistician wrote: »

Ritual, (going to Mass etc) community, etc..

You kind of need more than that though. There are plenty of things which are ritualistic and community-based without being religious in the slightest. For example on Sundays in Winter, I dress up in very funny looking clothes, meet up with a large group of other people and spend a few hours moving through the streets of Dublin and Wicklow just chatting and having fun, building community ties. Is cycling a religion?

You could equally say the same with the local under-12s football. Groups of people go down there, their children dressed up and partaking in a ritual while the parents chat and build their community. Yet it's not religion.

Surely the defining lynchpin that qualifies it as "religion" is that the reason for the community and the ritual is a set of supernatural beliefs?

I say supernatural as a qualifier in there because you wouldn't call a weekly vegetarians meeting a religious meeting, yet the topic is a matter of belief rather than fact.

The point here is that if you go broadly defining religion, then you suddenly start including all sorts of mundane activities as "religion". So it would seem that religion is actually quite clearly defined and as such there should be no issue showing why atheism is a religion where vegetarianism is not.
There is no doubt that theism is not a requirement of religion (Scientology is an atheist religion), yet at the same time atheism on its own cannot qualify as a religion because it has no rituals, no doctrine, no shared belief system.

Zombrex

seamus wrote: »

Surely the defining lynchpin that qualifies it as "religion" is that the reason for the community and the ritual is a set of supernatural beliefs?

Nail head /thread

Atheists can be religious. Some Buddhists follow supernatural rituals that do not involve a deity. As do certain new age spiritualists. But they involve supernatural ritual. That is the defining characteristic of religion. It is why playing soccer isn't religious, neither is doing the shopping, neither is being part of a book club.

Dades

I think this forum is being subjected to a "denial of logic attack".

Damned Vatican hackers.

Panrich

DuPLeX wrote: »

everything you just stated is equally true of you! your opinions on atheism or religion are no more valid than mine.
And Its more than a little arrogant to try to apply a label to me that I have already rejected.

Stop trying to label me as religious please.

coffee_cake

Zombrex wrote: »

Nail head /thread

Atheists can be religious. Some Buddhists follow supernatural rituals that do not involve a deity. As do certain new age spiritualists. But they involve supernatural ritual. That is the defining characteristic of religion. It is why playing soccer isn't religious, neither is doing the shopping, neither is being part of a book club.

yeah the rebirth business would make it a religion
if you don't have that it's a philosophy

oldrnwisr

DuPLeX wrote: »

No I don't wear a cap.You can call me an Atheist if you like , it does not make me one !
A religion as I see it is a predigested world view which is adopted by people who are too lazy to figure the world out for themselves or too afraid to live with unanswered questions .the older ones usually involve some sort of Prophet and/or Deity But these and increasingly redundant as scientific doctrines seem to be the new way

Calling you an atheist is not a faulty syllogism. You have already stated that you don't believe in a God. Ergo you are an atheist. Yes labels have limitations. That's why we're supposed to be having a discussion. Identifying myself as an atheist merely indicates something I don't believe in, not what I do believe in. That doesn't mean that the term atheist has no useful function.

I agree with your definition of religion, or at least I would say that it's a definition which holds true for a great many people. How does it hold true for atheists though? What belief that you think atheists share indicate that we have just accepted something because we were told so and are too lazy to figure things out for ourselves.
Personally speaking, figuring things out for myself is how I became an atheist. Contrary to popular misconception there aren't a lot of people who became atheist because of Richard Dawkins. In fact, I became an atheist by reading the Bible and anything I could get my hands on about every other mythology. I studied physics in college and then learned about biology and evolution on my own. The one thing I don't do is listen to appeals to authority. It goes against everything I stand for.

Statistician

Well I found one.
Here is a religion that has atheists as members:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

So, a religion without faith?

DuPLeX

oldrnwisr wrote: »

Identifying myself as an atheist merely indicates something I don't believe in, not what I do believe in. That doesn't mean that the term atheist has no useful function.

that term may work for you, but it has no relevance to me, I'm not an atheist.. I do not define myself by my belief or not in a deity

I agree with your definition of religion, or at least I would say that it's a definition which holds true for a great many people. How does it hold true for atheists though? What belief that you think atheists share indicate that we have just accepted something because we were told so and are too lazy to figure things out for ourselves.

It seems you decided that there is no God and therefore ,Christianity was not for you . so you sought an alternative and found Atheism. I have not sought an alternative .