Leinster Appreciation Thread

Fishooks12

This crop of players are now undoubtedly now the greatest club side in European history

Not only are they dominating but they're playing some of the most fluid, brilliant rugby in the world

Well done Leinster, a credit to the country

awec

Leinster.... I appreciate you.

:P

nice_guy80

Er, they are a province, not a club

big difference

Fishooks12

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Er, they are a province, not a club

big difference

Sorry, would Leinster conglomerate of rugby players be more suited to your nit picking ways?

leddpipe

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Er, they are a province, not a club

big difference

they are both #semantics :rolleyes:

Otacon

Awesome team. Simple as that TBH.

duckysauce

BOD = UNREAL

thebaz

Big up to Leinster - the scary thing for everyone else is that the crop coming through are pretty damn good too - Madigan, Cooney (good game tonight), Conway, Ruddock, Ryan - it seams the Academy has no limits

twinytwo

I would love to see them play the all blacks i think that would make a very interesting game.

Kayless

Greatest team in Europe and kevin Mclaughlin must be in team for NZ. Only wish Kidney could mimic what Schmidt has been able to do here...

Tox56

Couldn't see Leinster getting near the All Blacks, their scramble defence is excellent but was stretched at times by Ulster, and NZ would exploit that and of course their defence would be excellent.

Ideally we would see a core group of Leinster supplemented by the likes of Ferris, Bowe, Best, POC etc.

That's what Ireland should be, but aren't at the moment.

Fishooks12

Kayless wrote: »

Greatest team in Europe and kevin Mclaughlin must be in team for NZ. Only wish Kidney could mimic what Schmidt has been able to do here...

I agree he should get a run put who should he be ahead of in terms of the starting 15?

Hagz

Fishooks12 wrote: »

I agree he should get a run put who should he be ahead of in terms of the starting 15?

Well if the rumors of Ferris not traveling are true, it's a tight call between KvM and POM.

FionnRua

I would love if ireland picked only Leinster players from here to eternity.
That would really please the gob****es on here and also allow the Connacht, ulster, Munster and overseas platters have some time off. Maybe then they would be able to compete with the gods of the game that are wearing blue.
Roll on the next final in the jungle that is D4

Kayless

Hagz wrote: »

Well if the rumors of Ferris not traveling are true, it's a tight call between KvM and POM.[/QU

We need both, if Leinster has shown us anything this season its that we need more rotation in the national team.

Fishooks12

FionnRua wrote: »

I would love if ireland picked only Leinster players from here to eternity.
That would really please the gob****es on here and also allow the Connacht, ulster, Munster and overseas platters have some time off. Maybe then they would be able to compete with the gods of the game that are wearing blue.
Roll on the next final in the jungle that is D4

RuggieBear

FionnRua wrote: »

I would love if ireland picked only Leinster players from here to eternity.
That would really please the gob****es on here and also allow the Connacht, ulster, Munster and overseas platters have some time off. Maybe then they would be able to compete with the gods of the game that are wearing blue.
Roll on the next final in the jungle that is D4

no one likes a bad winner.

not a big fan of gloating or interprovincial pissing contests.

Can we show some restraint please.

FionnRua

Is the last sentence completely lost on your sarcasm meter?
I am not a bad winner. I am however a very bad loser. Re read and please pi** off

RuggieBear

FionnRua wrote: »

Is the last sentence completely lost on your sarcasm meter?
I am not a bad winner. I am however a very bad loser. Re read and please pi** off

ah i see.

banned

CatFromHue

The overhead camera view of Strauss's break in the first half was brilliant. You could see all the lovely lines of running from the Leinster players. It was excellent play.

chris85

Great game for Leinster. So wish I could have been over this year but exams meant I could not, was there in Cardiff last year and was epic.

Purchasing tickets next week for next years Heineken Cup final and the Amlin final, I am hoping Leinster get there but if they dont will be a great weekend of rugby so totally worth it.

shuffol

RuggieBear wrote: »

ah i see.

banned

One thanks just isnt enough.:pac:

Bruno26

CatFromHue wrote: »

The overhead camera view of Strauss's break in the first half was brilliant. You could see all the lovely lines of running from the Leinster players. It was excellent play.

Lines of running in rugby- drives me nuts - such bull****- u get the ball eye the space and run- fairly obvious - if u trained to run in a certain line and repeated it in a game most of the time u get smashed- its bloody spontaneous- is it people who have played nothing but rugby talk about line of running?!

Hagz

Bruno26 wrote: »

Lines of running in rugby- drives me nuts - such bull****- u get the ball eye the space and run- fairly obvious - if u trained to run in a certain line and repeated it in a game most of the time u get smashed- its bloody spontaneous- is it people who have played nothing but rugby talk about line of running?!

Isa Nacewa in his recent interview talked about how amazed he was at the lines Howlett and Muliaina were running when he was playing with the Blues, so no.

totallegend

Bruno26 wrote: »

Lines of running in rugby- drives me nuts - such bull****- u get the ball eye the space and run- fairly obvious - if u trained to run in a certain line and repeated it in a game most of the time u get smashed- its bloody spontaneous- is it people who have played nothing but rugby talk about line of running?!

I love it when guys like this pop up, think they're the cheese and only serve to expose their own ignorance. Beautiful.

Bruno26

Hagz wrote: »

Isa Nacewa in his recent interview talked about how amazed he was at the lines Howlett and Muliaina were running when he was playing with the Blues, so no.

Ok but it is purely spontaneous- you run where you see the space / wrong foot an opponent - just seems to me that the way rugby commentators talk about lines like it is coached

People run in lines in other sports -ie where the space is- just seem to make a big deal about it in rugby

I would rather hear the pass , intelligence or speed of a player being praised than lines

Bruno26

totallegend wrote: »

I love it when guys like this pop up, think they're the cheese and only serve to expose their own ignorance. Beautiful.

Explain

Hagz

Bruno26 wrote: »

Ok but it is purely spontaneous- you run where you see the space / wrong foot an opponent - just seems to me that the way rugby commentators talk about lines like it is coached

People run in lines in other sports -ie where the space is- just seem to make a big deal about it in rugby

I would rather hear the pass , intelligence or speed of a player being praised than lines

It's not always spontaneous. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's planned. In the case of the former, Fofana has run spontaneous lines a plenty this season. But then take Kearney's line in the Clermont game, when he ran an inside line which led to a try. That was pre-planned. Running intelligent lines can be coached, and it is used a lot in Leinster. Even players who don't touch the ball in a pre-planned move are still running lines to off-set opposition defense.

CatFromHue

Bruno26 wrote: »

Lines of running in rugby- drives me nuts - such bull****- u get the ball eye the space and run- fairly obvious - if u trained to run in a certain line and repeated it in a game most of the time u get smashed- its bloody spontaneous- is it people who have played nothing but rugby talk about line of running?!

In broken play when the defence is stretched and scrambling picking a line before you get the ball that destabilizes the defence even more, and also frees up more space for the other attackers, is one thing I appreciate. As I do a nice offload.

I've never been to Hue either......Meow!

Bruno26

Hagz wrote: »

It's not always spontaneous. Sometimes it is, but sometimes it's planned. In the case of the former, Fofana has run spontaneous lines a plenty this season. But then take Kearney's line in the Clermont game, when he ran an inside line which led to a try. That was pre-planned. Running intelligent lines can be coached, and it is used a lot in Leinster. Even players who don't touch the ball in a pre-planned move are still running lines to off-set opposition defense.

Fair enough- a bit of both at times - i think its the pundits that annoy me! thanks for intelligent reply unlike other guy- super game today - Leinster 3 in a row looks on- an incredible team

Bruno26

totallegend wrote: »

I love it when guys like this pop up, think they're the cheese and only serve to expose their own ignorance. Beautiful.

With a name like yours you seem to feel like you own the forum- pardon me for making an observation- tis a pity you could not justify your response with valid reasoning unlike the other posters who replied

totallegend

Bruno26 wrote: »

With a name like yours you seem to feel like you own the forum- pardon me for making an observation- tis a pity you could not justify your response with valid reasoning unlike the other posters who replied

OK, that's a fair point.

Just getting the ball and running into whatever space might be in front of you is the rugby equivalent of the long ball game (soccer) or playing a big tall lad at full forward (GAA); it's a simple tactic that might reap rewards but it is also very easy to defend against. If you have your defensive structures right, the other team should not get that many opportunities to have the ball in hand with space in front of them.

So, to really get an attacking edge, your runners need to be coming from deep, getting the ball at full pace but not running straight into defenders.

Or, to put it more simply:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-yOjOcctXs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQgM5clYV5o

Do these look like guys just playing what's in front of them?

Bruno26

totallegend wrote: »

OK, that's a fair point.

Just getting the ball and running into whatever space might be in front of you is the rugby equivalent of the long ball game (soccer) or playing a big tall lad at full forward (GAA); it's a simple tactic that might reap rewards but it is also very easy to defend against. If you have your defensive structures right, the other team should not get that many opportunities to have the ball in hand with space in front of them.

So, to really get an attacking edge, your runners need to be coming from deep, getting the ball at full pace but not running straight into defenders.

Or, to put it more simply:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-yOjOcctXs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KQgM5clYV5o

Do these look like guys just playing what's in front of them?

Very well put

First video excellent - unreal move - certainly looks a planned move.

Second video - a bit of both - the gap appeared -Kearney picked angle and ran into the space.

Anyway I accept certain lines are planned.

Thanks for excellent reply.

errlloyd

Bruno26 wrote: »

Very well put

First video excellent - unreal move - certainly looks a planned move.

Second video - a bit of both - the gap appeared -Kearney picked angle and ran into the space.

Anyway I accept certain lines are planned.

Thanks for excellent reply.

It took me ages to properly understand how complicated it is. In my opinion the hardest part isn't picking or running the line, its timing. Fitzgerald is an example of a player who has absolutely great lines but terrible timing normally.

You obviously have to time your line so that just as the other person is at their ideal moment to pass, you're at your ideal moment to receive. In that first move Sexton caught the ball, released the ball, and got minced. Fitzgerald had to be there, he had (at most) perhaps a two second window.

rrpc

errlloyd wrote: »

It took me ages to properly understand how complicated it is. In my opinion the hardest part isn't picking or running the line, its timing. Fitzgerald is an example of a player who has absolutely great lines but terrible timing normally.

FitzGerald's timing was excellent, but after coming back from injury, he had great difficulty in getting it back; which illustrates how difficult it really is.

In the Bath game at the Aviva he was back to his best and showed it in the try he scored which was generated by some lovely passing and timing of runs so that each player ran onto the ball without checking.

Again against Cardiff, his timing was spot on for BOD's try. As Will Greenwood put it: "Not one Leinster player was touched in the entire move until D'Arcy hugged BOD after he scored"

bamboozle

Kayless wrote: »

Greatest team in Europe and kevin Mclaughlin must be in team for NZ. Only wish Kidney could mimic what Schmidt has been able to do here...

most underrated player in Irish rugby, twice the player of a certain hyped up munster backrower

OldRio

I listened to an interview with George Chuter (Leicester hooker) yesterday on TalkSport Rugby.
He was keen to point out that it was much harder to win the Heineken cup when Wasps and Leicester won it. The English teams were fighting on three fronts says he.
Leinster only concentrate on the Heineken and are not that bothered about the league. If they do well in the league it is a bonus.

I should of known better than to listen.
Live and learn.

Tox56

OldRio wrote: »

I listened to an interview with George Chuter (Leicester hooker) yesterday on TalkSport Rugby.
He was keen to point out that it was much harder to win the Heineken cup when Wasps and Leicester won it. The English teams were fighting on three fronts says he.
Leinster only concentrate on the Heineken and are not that bothered about the league. If they do well in the league it is a bonus.

I should of known better than to listen.
Live and learn.

Go read the BBC Sport blogs on the HEC and see the English reaction, those arguments are frequently used.

rrpc

OldRio wrote: »

I listened to an interview with George Chuter (Leicester hooker) yesterday on TalkSport Rugby.
He was keen to point out that it was much harder to win the Heineken cup when Wasps and Leicester won it. The English teams were fighting on three fronts says he.
Leinster only concentrate on the Heineken and are not that bothered about the league. If they do well in the league it is a bonus.

The inescapable logic of his argument is...

...inescapable. :rolleyes:

I wonder how he explains why they're not winning it now that it's 'easier'.

BoardsMember

They are fair points to be honest. The English teams have salary caps, and their league is much more competitive week in week out. Leinster have a massive squad, and can afford to play players as often or as seldom as they like. Fortunately, their massive squad has great strength in depth, unlike Munster & Ulster. The cards really are stacked in their favour compared to the English clubs. The French clubs not so much, as the big clubs have massive budgets, but they still play a huge number of games.

All that said, I dont give a toss...Leinster are a great side and play fantastic rugby. That's where the English arguments fall down, with the odd exception, their rugby is inferiour bish bash bosh stuff that is painful to watch.

OldRio

Tox56 wrote: »

Go read the BBC Sport blogs on the HEC and see the English reaction, those arguments are frequently used.

Thanks Tox56
I read some of the comments on the blog.
'bob' needs help I think.

BoardsMember

BoardsMember wrote: »

They are fair points to be honest.
1 -The English teams have salary caps, and their league is much more competitive week in week out.
2 - Leinster have a massive squad, and can afford to play players as often or as seldom as they like.

Fortunately, their massive squad has great strength in depth, unlike Munster & Ulster. The cards really are stacked in their favour compared to the English clubs. The French clubs not so much, as the big clubs have massive budgets, but they still play a huge number of games.

All that said, I dont give a toss...Leinster are a great side and play fantastic rugby. That's where the English arguments fall down, with the odd exception, their rugby is inferiour bish bash bosh stuff that is painful to watch.

1 - The salary cap is more than the budget of any of the provinces for salaries. This argument holds no water.
2 - They have a massive squad because they've developed a massive squad. It's what modern rugby requires, so they'd done so. They realised that having 15 top level players is simply not enough for a long season, and have adjusted accordingly. There is nothing stopping any other side in the world doing so. Again, it's a silly argument.

The sour grapes that exist over here are ridiculous. Everyone's enjoying the way Leinster are playing rugby, yet begrudging them massively so.

It's just annoying that people are using self-created problems such as lack of squad depth as a reason to bemoan the progress made by Leinster.

BoardsMember

Deleted User wrote: »

1 - The salary cap is more than the budget of any of the provinces for salaries. This argument holds no water.
2 - They have a massive squad because they've developed a massive squad. It's what modern rugby requires, so they'd done so. They realised that having 15 top level players is simply not enough for a long season, and have adjusted accordingly. There is nothing stopping any other side in the world doing so. Again, it's a silly argument.

The sour grapes that exist over here are ridiculous. Everyone's enjoying the way Leinster are playing rugby, yet begrudging them massively so.

It's just annoying that people are using self-created problems such as lack of squad depth as a reason to bemoan the progress made by Leinster.

I always enjoy reading your posts, you clearly know what you're talking about when it comes to rugby. Not sure if its the fact that in my head I decided you might be Emmet Byrne, who I find really interesting and insightful too.

That said.....I dont know if it is as simple as you make out. I dont know for sure if you are right about the budgets etc, but what I know for sure is that the provinces are loss making "businesses", the IRFU contributes to ensure cover their yearly deficit.

For a team that must surely be earning more than ever, and maximising its revenue with record merchandisig, gate receipts, season ticket sales etc- there is surely an element of an uneven playing field when they still have to be subsidised. The fact is the English premiership clubs have to cut their cloth according to their means, the Irish provinces do not.

Podge_irl

Its really not clear to what degree, if any, Leinster actually are subsidized as the IRFU release exceptionally muddied figures. They certainly provide funding to Leinster, but also count some Leinster income (HEC TV deals, bonus payments etc) as their own.

That said, I have a hard time believing Leinster's total wage bill, including the centrally contracted players, is less then the salary cap in England.

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/rfu-salary-cap-regulations-manager-andrew-rogers-speaks-about-its-place-in-rugby-1-3672261

The salary cap has been in effect since 1990. Far too much is being made about it.

This season

Cap is at £4m

Plus World Cup credit: £30,000 per player at the World Cup above the cap.

Academy credit: £30,000 for up to eight players coming through academy and in senior squad.

Injury dispensation: Up to £400,000 for players out for more than 12 weeks. It has to be like for like players of same or less quality.

Next season

Cap will be at £4.26m

Plus Academy credit: £30,000 for up to eight players coming through Academy and in senior squad.

One designated player whose wages will not be included in the salary cap

bamboozle

back then the english team's were saying they were winning the HC as their domestic league was soooo tough they were playing at a consistently higher level.

to be honest i can see the rabo losing one HC place and HC places being awarded on final rabo league position.

if on to pacify the french and english and keep them interested in the HC. last thing we want is them walking away from the HC due to Irish domination.

Tox56

Rabo qualification or not would have no impact on Leinster winning the HEC whatsoever, they were comfortably first this year.

justsomebloke

Here is a list of the previous finalists (back to 2000-2001 as there was no Celtic league till 01/02 and also I can't find top 14 tables previous to this I stopped there) by year with their final league position i.e. not play off results. Winners are on the left.


Leinster 1st – 5th Ulster
Leinster 2nd – 4th Northampton Saints
Toulouse 4th – 7th Biarritz
Leinster 3rd – 1st Leicester Tigers
Munster 3rd – 2nd Toulouse
Wasps 2nd – 4th Leicester Tigers
Munster 6th – 1st Biarritz
Toulouse 4th – 1st Stade Français
Wasps 2nd – 2nd Toulouse
Toulouse 1st – 6th Perpignan
Leicester 1st – 1st table B Munster
Leicester 1st – ? Stade Français

over the full course of the HEC history

French teams have been represented in 11 different finals
English teams have been represented in 9 different finals
Irish teams have been represented in 8 different finals

The first thing to note is that the last time Leicester won the HEC was the first year of the Celtic League and at that point it was split in 2 groups of 8 and 7 who only played each other once. So it was easier for English clubs to target the HEC as there wasn't a decent structure for the Celtic teams to get exposure to competitive rugby.

However since the inception of the Celtic League we have won 5 out of 11 finals which is a pretty good win rate and Leinster are the first team since Toulouse in 2003 to have won the HEC while topping their respective end of season league table.

So given that Leinster have won the HEC while finishing a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finish in the Celtic league it is a bit rich of the English clubs to say that they don't have anything else to play for especially in a season when Leinster have only lost 3 games out of 31.

Fishooks12

Tox56 wrote: »

Rabo qualification or not would have no impact on Leinster winning the HEC whatsoever, they were comfortably first this year.

Exactly, this is something no one takes into account

BoardsMember

justsomebloke wrote: »

So given that Leinster have won the HEC while finishing a 1st, 2nd and 3rd place finish in the Celtic league it is a bit rich of the English clubs to say that they don't have anything else to play for especially in a season when Leinster have only lost 3 games out of 31.

Nice stats but proves nothing, certainly not the point you were trying to prove regarding Leinster.

The English gripe is that Leinster dont have to put out their strongest players week in week out in order to compete in the Celtic league. The result being their best players are well rested and conditioned for all the big matches. And that is true. The fact that they finished top of the table only serves to show that the Celtic league is weak enough to allow them to do this while still winning it.

yimrsg

Deleted User wrote: »

http://www.northamptonchron.co.uk/sport/rfu-salary-cap-regulations-manager-andrew-rogers-speaks-about-its-place-in-rugby-1-3672261

The salary cap has been in effect since 1990. Far too much is being made about it.

I read a piece about how only 4 of the aviva teams were making a profit from the latest figures, up to June 2011. Saracens posted a loss of £5.6 million and spent 72.9% of their total turnover of £7.6 million on staff wages.

http://www.espnscrum.com/premiership-2011-12/rugby/story/164350.html