Top 10: Most Over-Hyped Players (nzrugbyworld)

RoundBox11

I found this article on nzrugbyworld.co.nz about the top 10 most over-rated players.

And we think Farrelly is bad :P

http://www.nzrugbyworld.co.nz/news/2012/05/top-10-dont-believe-hype

Top 10: DON'T BELIEVE THE HYPE

By NZRW Editor: Gregor Paul,

10. Rocky Elsom

Australia

It seems a touch suspicious that Rocky Elsom went to Ireland and became a legend. Did he play out of his skin over there – way better than he normally does? Or do they have a much lower benchmark on what they expect and are therefore easily impressed?
It is probably a combination of the two – and Elsom has dined out on that European sabbatical. His legend has been built on it.
“Rocky had quite a big impact on Irish rugby during the brief time he was playing in Ireland,” said Dennis Leamy the Munster back-row at the 2011 World Cup. “In his time at Leinster he was excellent, from what I could gather looking in. He brought on the guys around him. He’s left a bit of a legacy there.

”When he returned to Australia in 2009 he was installed as Wallaby captain – because he was supposedly the rock solid, inspirational figure the team had been missing. Really? Had anyone actually been paying attention because Elsom looked like a hulking but massively underachieving brute before he left for Ireland and has regressed since he returned. As Wallaby captain he was random and feisty – but only to referees. He led the Wallabies to a solitary test win against the All Blacks in his tenure and last year he was the defensive weak link that New Zealand exposed – Ma’a Nonu running over him in both the Tri Nations and the World Cup.
He may in fact be an Australian version of Sione Lauaki and anyone who is getting angry while reading this – stop now and ask…how many huge tests has Elsom played? Where would he sit on a world pecking order? Ahead of Jerome Kaino? Or Thierry Dusautoir? Not even close. He’d be behind Schalk Burger as well. And he’d be behind O’Brien and probably Adam Thomson and bizarrely…way behind his fellow Wallaby Scott Higginbotham. Face it – Elsom maybe enjoyed the luck of the Irish while he was there but nine months does not a career make.
09. Shane Horgan

Ireland

It had to be read twice – to make sure it really had been written: the normally reputable and highly commended Irish Times, had actually suggested that the world had not seen a player like Sonny Bill Williams since Shane Horgan came on the scene. Seriously – it took hours to stop laughing.
Horgan – a potato with all the qualities of a horse except speed – was scarily bad. The Leinster man played at wing or centre and yet the smarter observers would have seen prop or lock as his best position. Playing there he could have wheezed away with all the other donkeys. Does anyone remember him coming here with the British Lions in 2005? Nope…nor did we which makes the comparison with SBW all the more ludicrous.
Obviously the Irish – and their judgement is under scrutiny for the esteem in which they hold Elsom – think Horgan is some kind of rugby God. He’s actually held in fairly high regard across much of Europe and yet to the southern hemisphere eye he’d do well to hold a place at Manawatu. How can that be? How can the Irish and Brits see gold and we see tin? Oh yes that’s right – because they have no idea.
08: James Hook

Wales

We are fully prepared to admit there is a glimmer of hope for James Hook. There have been times when he’s looked to be worth the fuss. But those occasions are increasingly hard to remember and for the last two years Hook has been heading backwards despite the fact his bank balance has been heading forwards.
Perpignan, when they realised they weren’t going to be able to afford Daniel Carter, downsized their ambition last year and signed Hook for a reported 750,000 Euros a season. They hoped that they were buying a moderately wealthy man’s Carter. Hmmm, they aren’t so sure now. Maybe a destitute man’s Carter or actually, how about we don’t link Hook with Carter in anyway.

It was the World Cup that set alarm bells ringing. He had multiple chances to be a hero and couldn’t take any of them. Against South Africa in the opening game he firstly missed a kickable and crucial penalty in the first half. It was a controversial miss as it went higher than the Wellington posts and left some believing it may have in fact gone over. “I did not ask the referee to consult the television match official but in hindsight maybe I should have,” said Hook.
Actually, mate, you should have banged it down the middle to remove all doubt. As you should have with the penalty four minutes from time that would have won the game for Wales and changed the course of the World Cup. But under pressure, Hook spooned it and then again in the semi-final when Wales needed a hero, Hook disappeared. He was a ghost – leading to him being subbed early in the second half.
Can anyone imagine Carter being taken off for reasons of form? Maybe Hook will mature and learn the art of consistency and performing when it really matters. And maybe Germans will learn how to queue patiently and Australians will learn how to be humble and the French won’t be arrogant and the English will be loved by everyone.
07: Courtney Lawes

England

When Courtney Lawes is stripped back to his component parts – he makes a compelling case to be considered world class. He’s physically big – a 2.02m mass of athletic muscle with the agility, speed and engine to play in the back-row if needs be. He can leap for the ball in the air; he is a tough man – happy to put himself about and stand up for himself and can carry the ball. So why is he on this list? What’s not to like?
It’s because somehow the whole doesn’t add up to being anywhere near the value of the component parts. Lawes played one belting game against the Boks at the end of 2010 and hasn’t done anything since. He talks a big game, says lots of scary stuff but his World Cup amounted to one dumb decision to drop his knees into prostrate Pumas hooker Mario Ledesma. It was a nasty act that earned Lawes a suspension and showed him up to be a cheap shot merchant.
He’s young enough to mature into the player many in England say he already is but what worries is that he had two years in the England set-up when Martin Johnson was manager and didn’t progress. There could be no better mentor for an aspiring lock than Johnson and yet Lawes played like a dunce for most of 2011. So far the Lawes’ show has been a non-event.
06: Chris Ashton

England

The England wing does this big showy swan dive thing when he scores tries and the English love him for it. They confuse a showy dive with being a great player.
True, Ashton has scored a lot of tries – 15 when this was being written – so that helps paint the picture of him as a player of considerable talent. But wait a moment here…who has he scored his tries against?

Not exactly heavyweights of the world game; four have come against Italy, three against Romania and two against Georgia. Frankly, Neemia Tialata could have landed the same haul if he’d been on the wing for those games. Ashton is all dandy when he’s asked to finish an overlap. But can he beat players one-on-one? Can he create from nothing? Does he have any wider football skills?
Obviously the answer – so we believe – is no, otherwise he wouldn’t be on this list. He’s not a bad player – just nowhere near the legend some believe he is.
05: Robbie Robinson

Chiefs

Excuse us for not being in anyway interested when Robbie Robinson signed with the Chiefs. It’s hardly as if the Highlanders were heart-broken to lose him. They didn’t put up much of a fight to keep him and there wasn’t a single tear shed in their soup when he left.
“Oh no…what will we do now?” they didn’t ever wail because they have the far superior Colin Slade and Ben Smith to play at 10 and 15. They were probably sniggering away when the Chiefs, chests all puffed and talking of a bright new future, paraded their new signing. “He is a good man, has an excellent skill set with the ability to play both 15 and 10. That sort of versatility is crucial for such a demanding campaign,” said new Chiefs coach Dave Rennie when he signed Robinson.
Excellent skill-set huh! What, like he can make himself invisible for an entire game? The sad truth about Robinson is that he’s neither a 10 nor a 15 – he lacks the breadth of vision and snappy hands for the former and the explosive power for the latter. He can accelerate and deviate – but so too can blue-arse flies and in a couple of years, Robinson will be playing somewhere God forsaken in Europe and no doubt eventually be capped by England who have an insatiable appetite for over-rated Kiwis who were chocolate tea-pot standard in Super Rugby. Think Riki Flutey… Mark van Gisbergen…Thomas Waldrom.
04: Freddie Michalak

France

There is no question Michalak played a critical role in knocking the All Blacks out of the 2007 World Cup. He made an important pass that helped France score an important try. So we all remember him and think he’s something brilliant. But in actual fact, he’s really not.
When he played Super Rugby for the Sharks in 2008 he was decidedly ordinary. When he returned midway through last year’s campaign, he wasn’t any better. He played so far from the traffic that he posed little or no threat to the defensive line.
He doesn’t kick the ball all that well and is a tiny, titchy little thing exclusively reliant on being elusive rather than powerful. To be fair it was easy to see why he was so highly rated at first. He was a halfback initially – nimble and lively around the fringes with the added attraction of being able to goal-kick. But from 2003 he was used mostly as a first five and never had the same impact.
It also became apparent from 2003 that under pressure he was a bit useless – he couldn’t hit a barn door during the World Cup semi-final against England. He hasn’t really looked like a genuine test player for the better part of five years yet he remains super high profile in France and beyond.
It’s probably something to do with his smouldering looks and marketability because it can’t be for his rugby. But give him his dues, he knows how to cash in on his fame and underserved rating. While he has absolutely no business being anywhere a test jersey, he can still talk about his desire to be back in one and be taken seriously. He said at the end of last year: “I want to play with Les Bleus again and that is easier when you play in Europe.” It’s also easier when you play like an international footballer – but let’s not worry about that insignificant detail Freddie.
03: Danny Cipriani

England

Casual followers of Super Rugby could be easily confused into thinking Danny Cipriani is in fact a rugby genius. He won seven caps for England as a 20-year-old and that was enough to have some hailing him the best five eighth in world rugby.

But really, the hype around Cipriani was built on the fact he was capable of occasionally running through a gap. Maybe after almost 10 years of Jonny Wilkinson the English were desperate for a more adventurous, skilled player. Jonny was metronomic but he was no runner or passer. So Cipriani came along – moderately capable of playing a running game – and imaginations were allowed to run wild. The English lost the plot – they were so desperate to believe they had found someone special that they ignored the fact Cipriani couldn’t tackle a plastic bag or stick to a game-plan. They allowed his celebrity status – built on his love of high profile ladies and night spots – to be a substitute for genuine achievement. So what that he hadn’t actually proven himself – he was good with the women and loved by the tabloids.
Former England coach Martin Johnson wasn’t buying any of it. He took one look at Cipriani and saw him for what he was – a young kid with a bit of talent but a million miles away from being the total package. Cipriani is big on talk short on substance and seems destined to make more of an impact off the field than he’s ever going to manage on it.
02: Pierre Spies

South Africa

If test much rugby was all about how tough you are in the gym then Pierre Spies would be the best No 8 in world rugby. The fact tests are won by graft, courage, ability to smash the hard yards and blast over the gainline is a bit of a problem for Spies as he doesn’t do much of that. Still, that doesn’t stop him from rating himself. “That player is still in the making. It’s me,” was his response in 2009 when he was asked who he saw as the best No 8 in world rugby. “Look I’m going to make no excuses for having confidence in my ability. If you look at the guys out there not much separates them. I’d like to think I have that extra bit that sets me apart.”
Well it’s nice that you think that Pierre – but if you are going to dream why not make it of something worthwhile like world peace and the eradication of famine? Talk about fertile imagination. Where was he when the All Blacks played the Boks at Eden Park in 2010 and Kieran Read stomped all over the show? Oh hang on, that’s right, he was there. As a spectator? Might as well have been. Spies is a glorious athlete but Read is a glorious rugby player.
01: Gavin Henson

Wales

Surely everyone realised Gavin Henson was going to feature on this list? Is there a more perplexing obsession than the one the Welsh hold with Mr Perma-tan? Probably not. Henson could hardly have done any less on the world stage. His total achievements are one big tackle and one big goal kick. But off the field – man he’s been prolific. His best form has all been in the bar or on reality TV where apparently, stick him on the dance-floor in a tight, shiny outfit with sequins on it and he starts to move elusively and gracefully. Stick him in the bar and he’s all over it – drinking hard and talking freely. He’s had a brush with the law for an incident on a train that really wasn’t cool and then covered himself in glory at Toulon where he abused his own team-mates before fighting them.

Quite incredibly, though, none of this stops the Welsh from thinking he’s ace. When Henson was on his two-year dancing sabbatical the nation still howled for his inclusion and just as incredibly coach Warren Gatland, an otherwise sane and astute judge, thought it wasn’t such a bad idea. The instant Henson ended his self-imposed exile, he was back in the national set-up and would have made the World Cup had it not been for injury. Amazing, all this fuss for a bloke who has managed three-fifths of stuff all.

PhatPiggins

Guy obviously never saw Shane Horgan play.

Fishooks12

No overrated NZ players I see

Absolute gutter journalism, posting this here is just giving the idiot the reaction he wants



Actually big LOL at Michilack being on the list, he wasn't overrated when he came off the bench and booted the Kiwis out of the World Cup 8 years ago

profitius

Wheres SWB? Many NZ fans think hes one of the worlds most overrated players. Nearly all the players are northern hemisphere players and Elsom gets in there too because of his season in Leinster.

RoundBox11

Fishooks12 wrote: »

No overrated NZ players I see

Absolute gutter journalism, posting this here is just giving the idiot the reaction he wants



Actually big LOL at Michilack being on the list, he wasn't overrated when he came off the bench and booted the Kiwis out of the World Cup 8 years ago

Yeah i thought that alright, but sure it's an interesting discussion nonetheless!

I would have had Piri Weepu as number one if it was me.

Saying Shane Horgan was scarily bad tho makes me wonder did he actually ever see him play

Tox56

Horgan – a potato with all the qualities of a horse

I stopped here, it's fairly obvious it's only written to provoke.

Kilkenny14

I read that article as written by someone who doesn't like European rugby - although Gavin Henson at number 1 was predictable.

Almaviva

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg5B4XY8-o

Take that, nzrugbyworld.

wonton

did the irish times actually make that comparison though?

Guy:Incognito

Almaviva wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eqg5B4XY8-o

Take that, nzrugbyworld.

Doesnt count. It was against England and all NH teams are ****.

BarackPyjama

Is this racist retard a professional rugby journalist? At the risk of breaking the forum charter, I would recommend mods should delete this thread and not give this scumbag the extra coverage.

Fishooks12

I actually think Mods should lock this, this guy only wrote this for reaction, which is exactly what he'll get

thomond2006

@Ireland team, please get 3 test wins so these 'journalists' can shut their bloody mouths.

profitius

Its not just the journalists. Many southern hemisphere fans believe Leinster would struggle against some of the weaker super rugby teams.

duckysauce

pure ****e

circos

Any comments and articles about Ireland by New Zealanders show little respect.

They see us as a country who has never beaten them and beating them is the only way to get respect.

totallegend

profitius wrote: »

Its not just the journalists. Many southern hemisphere fans believe Leinster would struggle against some of the weaker super rugby teams.

Yeah, they would think so. Its bollocks though.

errlloyd

Is this a fan post, or is this author actually of any note.

Like a lot of those players aren't only much better than he gives them credit for, but are significantly lower rated than he gives them credit for. Like both Freddie and Danny basically went into southern hemisphere exile.

Also ****ing annoying how every person had their nation written below them, as if their nation was the one "overrating" them, but that Kiwi chump had "The Chiefs" instead.

Author not able to admit his own nation does the exact same thing.

CoDy1

'And maybe.... Australians will learn how to be humble'

Oh the irony..

funky penguin

wonton wrote: »

did the irish times actually make that comparison though?

Did a quick google and came up with nothing. More than likely taken out of context. IF it was actually written.

Crikey that whole thing is painful to read. Trolling at it's very best.

Grimebox

Got to number 9 and stopped. No way am I reading any more of that

jimbomalley

Argggggghhhh!! This kind of rubbish journalism makes me so angry. This guy makes Stephen Jones look like Dickens. Closet racism at it's finest. Like the above post, stopped reading at shaggy

Aidric

BarackPyjama wrote: »

Is this racist retard a professional rugby journalist? At the risk of breaking the forum charter, I would recommend mods should delete this thread and not give this scumbag the extra coverage.

Where was the racism?

Fishooks12

Aidric wrote: »

Where was the racism?

He referred to Horgan as "slow as a potato", not exactly KKK stuff but it was a subtle dig

If he wasn't having a dig at our fondness for spuds it's the worst analogy I've ever seen

Chucky the tree

Pretty solid list I think. Shame they went with the ridiculous OTT hyperbole to put across their point though, pretty much ruins it and stops it being taken seriously.

Dempsey

Northern Hemisphere bashing gutter journalism that panders to the masses in NZ.

thebaz

RoundBox11 wrote: »

Horgan – a potato with all the qualities of a horse except speed –

In the era of ferdinand/terry/suarez/ evra if the equivalent was written about a black player it would be deemed racist , and rightly so

Shaggy a potato - **** right off

Benny Cake

:eek:
Did the Times honestly compare Horgan to SBW?

Fishooks12

Benny Cake wrote: »

:eek:
Did the Times honestly compare Horgan to SBW?

Probably not, Horgan was a much more rounded player in my opinion

SBW is overrated as ****

Tigerandahalf

I think the author is fairly right. He may come across as being arrogant or whatever. On the face of it Horgan is not a great player. Some of his best moments were against one of the worst English teams of recent years. He was a good player for Ireland. He was never a Lions test regular. So, you can hardly call him a great player then. The same Lions team were hockeyed by the Kiwis. We'll go to NZ again in the summer and will struggle badly again. No wonder the Kiwis don't take us seriously.

Dempsey

Nobody is calling the likes of Horgan one of the best players of all time, nobody is under any illusion about him in the grand scheme of things. That article is suggesting otherwise.

Fishooks12

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

I think the author is fairly right. He may come across as being arrogant or whatever. On the face of it Horgan is not a great player. Some of his best moments were against one of the worst English teams of recent years. He was a good player for Ireland. He was never a Lions test regular. So, you can hardly call him a great player then. The same Lions team were hockeyed by the Kiwis. We'll go to NZ again in the summer and will struggle badly again. No wonder the Kiwis don't take us seriously.

He was probably one of the most well rounded wingers we've ever produced

He had everything, size, blistering pace and wonderful hands.

While he produced some magic moments against England he also scored plenty of other tries for Ireland, not to mention he was a big part in winning two HC for Leinster


Here's an example of his pace: (this is only 2 years ago btw)

His hands and strength:

Another wonderful Horgan try:

Sindri

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW7HgpvlLFs

Fishooks12

Sindri wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UW7HgpvlLFs

Was looking for that clip, magic

"not a great player" some would have you believe

Grimebox

Fishooks12 wrote: »

Probably not, Horgan was a much more rounded player in my opinion

SBW is overrated as ****

Its my opinion that your opinion is wrong. SBW is far better

Clegg

SBW has done nothing at international level to show that he deserves the hype. He carves defences open in the Super 15 but he's just another player when he's with the All Blacks.

He's good but very overhyped.

Fishooks12

Clegg wrote: »

SBW has done nothing at international level to show that he deserves the hype. He carves defences open in the Super 15 but he's just another player when he's with the All Blacks.

He's good but very overhyped.

Non existent defenses, give him another season at Toulon now that he's established and see how good he is

porterbelly

Conor Murray

Close thread

Liam90

i agree with the list, Couldn't be bother reading the whole article so just read the names.

And for whoever said there was no New Zealanders on the list, Robbie Robinson is on it.

RoundBox11

Liam90 wrote: »

i agree with the list, Couldn't be bother reading the whole article so just read the names.

And for whoever said there was no New Zealanders on the list, Robbie Robinson is on it.

It's because you didnt read the article that you don't get what we are talking about

Fishooks12

Liam90 wrote: »

i agree with the list, Couldn't be bother reading the whole article so just read the names.

And for whoever said there was no New Zealanders on the list, Robbie Robinson is on it.

So you agree with something you didn't even bother readiing.............................................right

Liam90

What? I'm not disagreeing with anyone, i haven't even read the thread properly. I just read the list commented that i agreed with it and that all.

Also i only said i agreed with the list which i read, i never said i agreed with the article.

Jeez some people need to relax.

thebaz

Clegg wrote: »

SBW has done nothing at international level to show that he deserves the hype. He carves defences open in the Super 15 but he's just another player when he's with the All Blacks.

He's good but very overhyped.

but he is an enigma - gives up drinking , takes up pro boxing , and goes undefeated - not to mention a recent world cup medal - the guy has class (for me anyway

CatFromHue

thebaz wrote: »

but he is an enigma - gives up drinking , takes up pro boxing , and goes undefeated - not to mention a recent world cup medal - the guy has class (for me anyway

Other than the situation when he joined Toulon he seems like a pretty nice guy.

The Aussie

thebaz wrote: »

takes up pro boxing , and goes undefeated

Yeh can i just stop you on this point, With Anthony Mundine and his band of merry idiots "Hen Picking each of Sonny Bills Money Bills opponents it is not as it all seems, it certainly is a case that he is Far From Brilliant, But Brilliant From A Far.

razorblunt

Would love to see this guys reaction if a NH based journalist wrote a similar piece and put Christian Cullen in there based purely on what they saw of his Munster time! His head would explode.

I'm sure the people of Worcester would love to see Gear added to that list and similarly Leicester fans with Kronfeld.

Thankfully our journalists are not wind ups except Stephen Jones obviously!

bamboozle

good articles here from a great rugby website on flops

http://rugby-transfers.blogspot.com/p/top-of-flops.html

Owen Finnigen springs to mind

bamboozle

razorblunt wrote: »

Would love to see this guys reaction if a NH based journalist wrote a similar piece and put Christian Cullen in there based purely on what they saw of his Munster time! His head would explode.

I'm sure the people of Worcester would love to see Gear added to that list and similarly Leicester fans with Kronfeld.

Thankfully our journalists are not wind ups except Stephen Jones obviously!

which begs the question, did you forget about George Hook or do you just not consider him a journalist;)

thebaz

The Aussie wrote: »

Yeh can i just stop you on this point, With Anthony Mundine and his band of merry idiots "Hen Picking each of Sonny Bills Money Bills opponents it is not as it all seems, it certainly is a case that he is Far From Brilliant, But Brilliant From A Far.

ah well it may be folklore, but still a nice story

razorblunt

bamboozle wrote: »

which begs the question, did you forget about George Hook or do you just not consider him a journalist;)

Not by a long shot sure he's only in it for the lolz!!

GerM

How did this get to 4 pages without Quade Cooper being mentioned?!

Also: Carl Hayman, John Smit, Butch James, Phil Dowson (him being capped is enough for inclusion), Sergio Parrise, Martin Castrogiovanni, Mike Blair, Piri Weepu, Rico Gear, Rhys Ruddock (in Ireland), Tendai Mtawarira, Alexis Palisson, Steve Borthwick.

*ducks for cover*