Why are no sound barriers off N3 to Clonee ?

rolion

Been few days ago to somebody living right next to the N3 road !
Huge noise from the traffic...but good mobile phone coverage !

What's the reason for not installing glass/wood sound proof barriers in there !?

chucknorris

rolion wrote: »

Been few days ago to somebody living right next to the N3 road !
Huge noise from the traffic...but good mobile phone coverage !

What's the reason for not installing glass/wood sound proof barriers in there !?

If it were College gate it would have been done at the time. Maybe I'm being cynical but at all stages of road works on the M50, Castleknock was sound proof protected time and time again. Be it fast growing tree's or wooden barriers, Clonee has it particularly bad and the houses in area's such as Littlepace, Swallowbrook and Pheasants run are right on road level.

RANT OVER :O

rolion

Thanks.
So..it has to do with who is living there !??
working class ... or ... cash class !?? :rolleyes:

Morag

Often it boils down to voting class.
Areas which have a higher turn out at the polls have more clout when it comes to getting improvements.

Arciphel

We got a flyer in the door recently (last 6 months?) saying that some money was being pout aside for some soundproofing works when possible. I think the issue is that the motorway part of the N4 starts down past Clonee towards almost Dunboyne and so there is apparently nothing in the NRA rules which says that a dual carriageway needs to have sound-proofing erected.

Larbre34

When the Navan Road - Blanchardstown/Clonee Bypass was built (89-91), the design standards observed by the Department of the Environment did not require noise walls to be installed for the predicted traffic volumes at that time. In fact dense landscaping was viewed as an effective and attractive solution.

When it was formed the NRA, as dictated by the EU, adopted more stringent requirements as traffic volumes and size of road projects increased which is why you see them along more recent motorways and the upgraded M50. The existing N3 would need to be widened/upgraded to see noise amelioration barriers installed and there is no plan to do that at the moment

monument

Larbre34 wrote: »

The existing N3 would need to be widened/upgraded to see noise amelioration barriers installed and there is no plan to do that at the moment

If residents of East Wall can get Irish Rail to erect a sound barrier between their houses and a fright / storage train yard then people have a good chance of getting a sound barrier between them and the N3.

They just have to want it enough.

munchkin_utd

thats the way it works all right, till a road is needing an upgrade it wont see much in the way of expensive soundproofing

just as a taste of what can be done, heres what was done for the residents near the new stadium in Munich when that road was upgraded (which cost as much as the stadium itsself nearly) but they were waiting decades for it hopelessly.

Not the size of the truck ahead compared to the wall!!
Thats what you should be looking for!

Arciphel

Just an update on this, driving outward on the N3 last few days I noticed that there was some barriers in place on the Clonee side of the road. This evening got a flyer in the door from Kieran Dennison, turns out they are erecting noise and crash barriers on the N3 from Blakestown underpass into Mulhuddart up to the Castaheaney (Clonee) overpass. This will be brought before the county council at the September meeting. Work will be done at night, should be done before end of year. They are also improving the existing french drains to improve drainage. The noise barriers are to be 3 metres high and made of timber to minimise their appearance, some overhanging trees will be removed as parts of the works. In addition, a new low noise road surface is going top be laid. This was piloted on the other side of the motorway two months ago, you may have noticed there is a nice, quiet stretch of new motorway just before the turn off to the centre at the Mulhuddart interchange. This is going to be extended on both sides on the N3.

Have to say, aside from the noise of works which will have to be coped with, I'm very happy that Dennison and Varadkar are following through on their promise of getting these noise and crash barriers up. Will be great for the people who live so close to the noise at present and have to put up with all the noise, and will be a good safety and security measure as well, as I have noticed people parking cars and walking through the trees into the estate in the past, as well as a few heads running across the N3 between Littlepace and Mulhuddart which was an accident waiting to happen. Seems that it pays to have one of your elected representatives in as minister for transport

rolion

Seen alright the work started there, on the left side... and... you're right, the car "sounds different" on the other side, towards M50,even kids have remarked what's happening with the car !!

Larbre34

The barriers are welcome, whatever about the noise, the fly tipping and dumping and stupid pedestrians taking lifts and running across the main N3 might be curtailed.

The use of timber barriers for the job is pure idiotic however, especially given the area. Ive seen them shredded and burned at different locations near Finglas, Sandyford and Shankill by locals wanting to continue to take shortcuts, closed off when barriers were erected. The timber is strong but its no match for a determined skobie, and I guarantee we'll be looking at more money being spent to repair or replace them within the year. It should be piled steel barriers or nothing.

I wouldnt be giving too much credit to Varadkar and / or Dennison for this work either, Ive worked with enough state agencies to know how they operate and the NRA pretty much decide when they have a few quid what schemes they might take on for the best value and then get it moving with the local Council. Of course its in the nature of local politicians to grab credit for the sun shining over their patch.

rolion

As far as I remember, seen on Fingal CC web site, next work is at the N3 junction (N3-Damastown-Clonee-Estate) so that they will built an extra lane for cars entering left side to estates.They were analysing the possibility of getting two lanes over the bridge !

Re politicians.. they are all the same...I have no words for it.

RichardoKhan

Any links to proposed N3 Clonee/Castaheany interchange upgrade? Curious as to what they are proposing.

RichardoKhan

*Bump*

Larbre34

Try the Fingal Co Co or NRA websites or the local Councillors rather than bumping threads all over the shop

RichardoKhan

Funny thought this was a chat board but could be mistaken. Did try them websites first before. Thats the reason im asking..

Arciphel

Larbre34 wrote: »

Try the Fingal Co Co or NRA websites or the local Councillors rather than bumping threads all over the shop

Looked there, there is nothing available online.

Larbre34

......which is why I said email the local Councillors, who would have been presented a scheme if there was one designed and approved by the NRA

Cilar

Something like that http://www.sdg.ie/acoustic-vibration-control/noise-barriers/cisilent/ . Also the asphalt used for the n3 portion before the m3 is quite old and noisy, there are better modern road materials to reduce the traffic noise.

Clonee Village is particularly impacted - number of apartment and buildings right next to the n3/m3 without any protection beside some trees.

The only thing I've found is http://www.meath.ie/CountyCouncil/Publications/RoadsPublications/NoiseActionPlanforRoads/File,53306,en.pdf - that does not outline any plan for Clonee in particular, but there are maps showing the problem... At some point that will come, as it's in the legislation through EU laws, but might take a few years...

There are other effective solutions in the meantime, like installing secondary glazing windows (an inside window behind the existing window) - but I don't think there is any grant for this, so out of pocket money.

amdublin

munchkin_utd wrote: »

I think I'd rather noise than a structure like this.

ciaran76

Got a notice from Micheal Donavon saying its wooden sound barriers.

Arciphel

They are currently driving in the last of the posts along the N3 and it looks like once they clear the last few trees that are in the way, that the sound barriers are going to start being slotted into place.

As a resident in one of the estates adjoining the N3 I am interested to see what the noise reduction is going to be, also hopefully the barriers will stop kids running across the N3 which is a fatal accident waiting to happen.

Did anyone ever find any documents online which show the plans? And does anyone know in other areas i Fingal what the Co. Co. are like when it comes to maintaining these barriers in the event of them getting damaged, destroyed or deteriorating due to age? Do they normally get repainted every few years to keep them in good condition and to ward off rot etc?

Thanks for any replies.

RichardoKhan

Detailed layout plans.............

Bit concerned they stop short of half way in to the open area, near Clonee exit

That area/parkland acts as a noise funnel throwing the road noise down to Deerhaven.

Hopefully linked in with the new road surface by summer should be hearing a considerable improvement

Larbre34

Wooden sound barriers, or fences as they used to call them, are a joke. Doesnt matter how strong the panel system is, wood planks can be broken open with a bit of persistence. It has happened along the M50 at Ballymount, Clondalkin, and Sandyford and Id expect to see gaps broken in the new N3 fence before too long by those who are happy to save themselves a long walk by playing traffic roulette.

Arciphel

RichardoKhan delivers, thanks very much, much appreciated!

Do you have the rest of the report, especially files 300-FEN-002 and -003 which show the details of the barrier in that phase 1 area?

Arciphel

Larbre34 wrote: »

Wooden sound barriers, or fences as they used to call them, are a joke. Doesnt matter how strong the panel system is, wood planks can be broken open with a bit of persistence. It has happened along the M50 at Ballymount, Clondalkin, and Sandyford and Id expect to see gaps broken in the new N3 fence before too long by those who are happy to save themselves a long walk by playing traffic roulette.

This is my concern as well. I would be tempted to say that some barriers are better then none, however I am trying to find out from the NRA & Fingal Co. Co. who is going to be responsible for the upkeep of these barriers in the long term. If they are not maintained and allowed to degrade then they have the potential to be at worse an eyesore, or worse if they start falling over or collapsing they could be dangerous. Do they re-paint them every so often for instance to check and prevent rot, and who do you call if there is damage to one to get it fixed?

RichardoKhan

Hi Arciphel

No sorry I dont. I had to pull a little clout to get this one.......

Arciphel wrote: »

RichardoKhan delivers, thanks very much, much appreciated!

Do you have the rest of the report, especially files 300-FEN-002 and -003 which show the details of the barrier in that phase 1 area?

Larbre34

Arciphel wrote: »

This is my concern as well. I would be tempted to say that some barriers are better then none, however I am trying to find out from the NRA & Fingal Co. Co. who is going to be responsible for the upkeep of these barriers in the long term. If they are not maintained and allowed to degrade then they have the potential to be at worse an eyesore, or worse if they start falling over or collapsing they could be dangerous. Do they re-paint them every so often for instance to check and prevent rot, and who do you call if there is damage to one to get it fixed?

This is a major issue countrywide now.

The NRA has effectively taken over direct control of the National roads by appointing its contractors to run and maintain them. As an example of the delays and dangers I believe this causes, many of you local to Littlepace will have spotted (or driven into) the large recent pothole on the Damastown/Clonee interchange overbridge in the right most lane against the kerb. I reported it to Fingal last week, they came back and said despite the fact it might be dangerous that they had to pass it on to the NRA for attention and it took an extra three days to get it repaired. Im would guess a good few extra cars were damaged in that time.

If the same response time applies to damaged fencing then I dont hold out much hope for it remaining in one piece

Arciphel

Lads, just an update - I sent out a few emails this morning and one of our local councilors in the area personally delivered a copy of the plans to me this afternoon. Very impressive! I will try and scan them in and post them up if anyone is interested to see them?

Larbre, I know that pothole you are talking about, I christened it THE WIDOWMAKER. Many a shock absorber was devoured by that gaping chasm! It is fixed now though I think...

RichardoKhan

Please do......

Arciphel wrote: »

Lads, just an update - I sent out a few emails this morning and one of our local councilors in the area personally delivered a copy of the plans to me this afternoon. Very impressive! I will try and scan them in and post them up if anyone is interested to see them?

Larbre, I know that pothole you are talking about, I christened it THE WIDOWMAKER. Many a shock absorber was devoured by that gaping chasm! It is fixed now though I think...

Cilar

no plans to cover clonee village apparently from the plans ... there are apartments block and houses just 10m away from the n3

Larbre34

Call me cynical, but its funny how galvanised into action Local Councillors get exactly 100 days from a local election.

Yours sincerely
Cynical :rolleyes:;)

ciaran76

Cilar wrote: »

no plans to cover clonee village apparently from the plans ... there are apartments block and houses just 10m away from the n3

It might be to do with different councils? Not 100% sure on that but just a guess.

rolion

ciaran76 wrote: »

It might be to do with different councils? Not 100% sure on that but just a guess.

They are with Co Meath but ... still N3 / M3 !

ciaran76

rolion wrote: »

They are with Co Meath but ... still N3 / M3 !

I know but the leaflets we get in the door from the local TD's etc are making it outs its their constituency they are doing it for as in Dublin West.
As Clonee village isn't their area then this may be a reason the barrier isn't extended to there.

Larbre34

ciaran76 wrote: »

I know but the leaflets we get in the door from the local TD's etc are making it outs its their constituency they are doing it for as in Dublin West.
As Clonee village isn't their area then this may be a reason the barrier isn't extended to there.

Good point. One of the main reasons for the NRA taking over direct network management was to do away with the County by County battles over jurisdiction and funding allocations, in order to manage the major roads in their entirety. Would be interesting to know if this fell at the very first hurdle like you suggest.

Arciphel

Here's the second part of the PDF of the plan that RichardoKhan posted earlier.

Pat Dunne

ciaran76 wrote: »

I know but the leaflets we get in the door from the local TD's etc are making it outs its their constituency they are doing it for as in Dublin West.
As Clonee village isn't their area then this may be a reason the barrier isn't extended to there.

Perhaps you could explain what you mean, as I find your post quite confusing.

Could you say where your "door" is and which of the "local" TD's you refer too?

ciaran76

Pat Dunne wrote: »

Perhaps you could explain what you mean, as I find your post quite confusing.

Could you say where your "door" is and which of the "local" TD's you refer too?

Whats confusing?

My door is near where the barriers are being put at the moment.
The local TD's being Patrick Nulty , Leo Varadkar and Joan Burton.

Also got leaflets from Michael O'Donovan , Kieran Dennison and I think 1 or 2 others mentioning it.

Arciphel

I noticed that the first ten or twelve barriers were lifted into place today. I wonder are they going to paint them, I presume they will otherwise they would just rot away in a short time unless they are pressure treated? It's hard to gauge the effectiveness of the reduction in noise when there is still noise coming from the open areas, but it seemed to have reduced the noise directly behind where the barriers have been put in place, so here's hoping it will make a difference.

Larbre34

they are pressure treated alright, 15-30 year lifespan dependent on attentive maintenance. They still arent impervious to scrote infestation unfortunately.

ciaran76

They look similar to the barriers I have seen on other roads around the city.
I know it's not complete yet but so far makes no real difference in sound at the moment.

Larbre34

ciaran76 wrote: »

They look similar to the barriers I have seen on other roads around the city.
I know it's not complete yet but so far makes no real difference in sound at the moment.

Im not sure they will to be honest, Ive done some work on noise amelioration in my own field and a rough look at the distances, road surface type and volumes make me think they are at least a metre too short. What you will end up with is seasonal noise reduction when the trees are in leaf, but they should not be relying on flora to do the job. Id say the real aim of the fences are to stop incursion, and I have seen some insane pedestrian crossings of the N3 along that stretch.

ciaran76

Larbre34 wrote: »

Im not sure they will to be honest, Ive done some work on noise amelioration in my own field and a rough look at the distances, road surface type and volumes make me think they are at least a metre too short. What you will end up with is seasonal noise reduction when the trees are in leaf, but they should not be relying on flora to do the job. Id say the real aim of the fences are to stop incursion, and I have seen some insane pedestrian crossings of the N3 along that stretch.

Yeah I hate that in the morning seeing the few lads waiting in the bush to do a runner across.
Haven't seen them in a while maybe cos of the work so at least that will be stopped.

chucknorris

ciaran76 wrote: »

Whats confusing?

My door is near where the barriers are being put at the moment.
The local TD's being Patrick Nulty , Leo Varadkar and Joan Burton.

Also got leaflets from Michael O'Donovan , Kieran Dennison and I think 1 or 2 others mentioning it.

Let's be honest here (and a few know my allegiances here), but NO politician was responsible for them. The NRA and the state were responsible for them.

It would be fine if politicians leaflet you to tell you they are being installed etc, but claiming ownership or responsibility is a step too far. They had no hand, act or part in the decision to have them. The residents in the Littlepace, Hunters run, swallowbrook pheasants run area were responsible and they campaigned for quite a number of years for these, and rightly so, as I myself in Rusheeney of all places, can hear the road noise on clear nights particularly.

The likes of Dennison in fairness has been consistent with updated leaflets during the last Five years, but Donavon in particular hasn't placed a leaflet in a door since 2009, and is starting out now suddenly in preparation for Mays election. A complete waste of space.

ciaran76

I agree 100% I am only just replying to who sent flyers.

ThisRegard

chucknorris wrote: »

The likes of Dennison in fairness has been consistent with updated leaflets during the last Five years, but Donavon in particular hasn't placed a leaflet in a door since 2009, and is starting out now suddenly in preparation for Mays election. A complete waste of space.

Leaflets are good for letting you know of local developments, but it can be hilarious when you get several around the same time from people all claiming responsibility for the same thing.

ciaran76

ThisRegard wrote: »

Leaflets are good for letting you know of local developments, but it can be hilarious when you get several around the same time from people all claiming responsibility for the same thing.

Yeah its weird they do all come within a week of each other then nothing for ages.

chucknorris

As quite a few know here on the D15 thread, my bro is a local councillor, and he hasn't claimed any credit for the installation of these.

He has posted the plans to some of the resident association FB pages etc, but to claim it would be awkward :-)

He made plenty of representation on it over the last few years, but it all fell on deaf ears with the same response received that the residents received about the technicalities of who was responsible, etc.
I know all of this, as a bloke I work with, who lives in Pheasants run was very vocal on getting these barriers and the representation was made on behalf of him and the residents he was involved with in the Erin go bragh GAA.

It's to be welcomed none the less - the road level and the houses at the playing pitches particularly are badly affected as they are basically level with the open road.

I can leave the back windows open this summer

ciaran76

Had more O’Donovan leaflets yesterday and although he doesn't claim he got the sound barriers installed he does mention them and he is keeping an eye on the progress.

rolion

No matter whatever polistruck takes advantage of the installation but...I can tell you that coming from M50...N3 looks a beauty, with traffic going in to Shopping Ctr then over the bridge.. then opening up to a lot of green ...AND...the wooden barriers installed on the left with the metal protector bands...what a clean nice simple solution !
Great work...i'm really impressed ! And proud...