cyclists on the dundalk to castle'bham road

whelan1

i am not against cyclists, i am one myself , but every thursday its the same dodging cyclists:mad: seriously some one is going to get hurt, i have lost count of the near misses i have had trying to pass them out... are they not supposed to keep as close to the hard shoulder as possible?

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

whelan1 wrote: »

i am not against cyclists, i am one myself , but every thursday its the same dodging cyclists:mad: seriously some one is going to get hurt, i have lost count of the near misses i have had trying to pass them out... are they not supposed to keep as close to the hard shoulder as possible?

Are these just recreation cyclists or CuChulainn Cycling Club holding there league races or training. If the club then contact them.

whelan1

seems to be races ... every thursday.. i go to the fairways on a thursday night to a group meeting... its deadly dangerous on the road there due to the cyclists

locum-motion

whelan1 wrote: »

i am not against cyclists, i am one myself , but every thursday its the same dodging cyclists seriously some one is going to get hurt, i have lost count of the near misses i have had trying to pass them out... are they not supposed to keep as close to the hard shoulder as possible?

A cyclist is a road user, same as you the driver.

They're entitled to be on/in the roadway, and while it makes sense to stay as far to the left (close to - but not in - the hard shoulder), it is not always practical to stay very far left as the surface can be dodgy.

They're also entitled to ride 2 abreast, but not more, I think, although I'm open to correction. I'm basing that on someone I heard talking to Matt Cooper on the radio today.

If you (as a driver) are approaching behind a cyclist or cyclists, you have to stay behind them until it is safe to pass, same as you would if it was a car. If that means slowing down to 25-30 km/h because there's a truck coming the other way, then so be it.

If you are 'dodging cyclists', and having 'near misses' as you try to pass them, then you, Sir, need to have a long hard look at your own driving.

lucernarian

I always cycle in the hard shoulder as a matter of courtesy. I rarely see a situation where I must use the driving lane but I will do so if there's potholes in the hard shoulder.

I think excercising my right to cycle in the driving lane at all times is a little impractical in reality. And for the most part the C'Bellingham to Dundalk road has an okay hard shoulder, though I've never cycled it.

whelan1

locum-motion wrote: »

A cyclist is a road user, same as you the driver.

They're entitled to be on/in the roadway, and while it makes sense to stay as far to the left (close to - but not in - the hard shoulder), it is not always practical to stay very far left as the surface can be dodgy.

They're also entitled to ride 2 abreast, but not more, I think, although I'm open to correction. I'm basing that on someone I heard talking to Matt Cooper on the radio today.

If you (as a driver) are approaching behind a cyclist or cyclists, you have to stay behind them until it is safe to pass, same as you would if it was a car. If that means slowing down to 25-30 km/h because there's a truck coming the other way, then so be it.

If you are 'dodging cyclists', and having 'near misses' as you try to pass them, then you, Sir, need to have a long hard look at your own driving.

so its ok to weave in front of a car thats trying to overtake you! thats the dangerous part . There is nothing wrong with my driving, its the split second movements of the cyclists thats dangerous , all i ask is for them to realise they are not the only ones on that road... obviously its a big ask

working fool

I noticed this carry on last Saturday
I was approaching a group of cyclists
Some where traveling two abreast wich as someone said earlier is perfectly legal .
But as I started to overtake them one cyclist then swung out further while looking back talking to his mate and forced me out further onto the hard shoulder on the other side of the road .

**Timbuk2**

The Dundalk-Castlebellingham road has (except for one section) a wide hard shoulder, so they should (as a matter of courtesy) be cycling in that, or at least partly in that. However, they are perfectly entitled to cycle on the road if they want (although as it's a 100km/h road, I'm not sure why they'd want to).

Having said that, it's a very straight, wide road, with plenty of overtaking opportunities so if you do come across a group of cyclists, just hold back until it's safe to pass them!

MugMugs

I do that run myself during the summer and I have to say, as a full time driver some of the people overtaking me are dangerous and should be taken off the road. It's all well and good scalping a cyclist when overtaking by staying as close to them as possible but drivers really need to take on board that a close pass by a car could have massive consequences to cyclists.

In saying that and in keeping with the tone of me being an utter bastard and prejduiced to everybody and anything on the roads, I equally dislike cyclists.

Anyway,

Rules of zee road for your debate on Two "Abreast" *giggle*

Road Traffic (Traffic and Parking) Regulations, 1997.
...
Pedal Cyclists
47. (1) A pedal cyclist shall not drive a pedal cycle on a roadway in such a manner as to result in more than two pedal cyclists driving abreast, save when overtaking other pedal cyclists, and then only if to do so will not endanger, inconvenience or obstruct other traffic or pedestrians.
(2) Pedal cyclists on a roadway shall cycle in single file when overtaking other traffic.

Mugs

kormak

They might be following "the rules" set out for them but in my opinion some cyclists like to push these rule to the limit quite simply to irate other road users...
I had the pleasure of meeting a lone cyclist (man in his 50s) literally cycling around a foot in from the white line, in the middle of the road. Perfectly wide and smooth hard shoulder not to mention the near perfect road condition!!
I f*cking blew him out of it (car horn in-case anyone gets any ideas! ).. out of sheer frustration of nearly killing the man from driving 100km per hour around a slight bend.

Again, fair enough cyclists have a right and all that... but have a bit of sense for your own safety and well-being when cycling on a main road.

locum-motion

whelan1 wrote: »

so its ok to weave in front of a car thats trying to overtake you! thats the dangerous part . There is nothing wrong with my driving, its the split second movements of the cyclists thats dangerous , all i ask is for them to realise they are not the only ones on that road... obviously its a big ask

Agreed, the cyclists shouldn't weave out in front of you. But you didn't specify that that's what you were worried about in your OP; you just said that they weren't close enough to the hard shoulder and you were having to weave past them.

callmekenneth

god i hate cyclists

whelan1

i come off the motorway and turn at the xerox junction... the cyclists seem to set off fromthe junction just before the fairways... so you have to have your wits about you when turning into the fairways that theres not a cyclist on your inside... then when i am finished in the fairways i have to meet someone in kilsaran so have no choice but to go the old road where all the cyclists are

MugMugs

whelan1 wrote: »

i come off the motorway and turn at the xerox junction... the cyclists seem to set off fromthe junction just before the fairways... so you have to have your wits about you when turning into the fairways that theres not a cyclist on your inside... then when i am finished in the fairways i have to meet someone in kilsaran so have no choice but to go the old road where all the cyclists are

So you have an issue with all cyclists? Not just a specific group?

Mugs

whelan1

no just the thursday night cyclists on this road!

MugMugs

whelan1 wrote: »

no just the thursday night cyclists on this road!

Apologies, so misread your OP as Blaney for some reason
Mugs

Kwak.ie

A small press on the horn would be nice to alert the cyclists. Not a crazy long blow on the horn, the small hello i'm coming behind type. that's a good way to stop the drifting and winding and a nice way to alert the guys and gals that something is coming, we've no rear view mirrors u know.
And remember ur driving on big fat ass tires, these bikes are usually pumped up to 120+ psi and as wide as ur thumb. Small holes for cyclists on these tires is like motorists going over a manhole with no lid. So everyone be nice and enjoy the sunny day, even better get out for a spin urself and see why we love cycling :-)

And again like others said if u can't pass safely then don't pass at all. Same goes for driving around bends when u cant see the far side of. Take ur time. It's ur driving skills that come into question if a overtaking goes wrong. Expect the unexpected!

Also no road in Louth is good enough to cycle in the hard shoulder. Dirt/glass/small stones to tree branches overgrown and bumps/holes are all galore!!

ShiverinEskimo

There's regular meetings north of Dundalk too where the cyclists do a loop around Ravensdale via the Ballymac roundabout.

Driving around the roundabout heading out to Carlingford one evening I was stopped my marshalls on the roundabout to clear the way for the cyclists. They were at least 500m down the road approaching the roundabout and the marshall would not let me pass (I'd have been at the ballymac hotel by the time they arrived at the roundabout had I been let pass.

Took me 50 minutes to drive to Carlingford as a result because they were riding up to 5 abreast and were such a large and long group (including what appeared to be a pace-car) over-taking was impossible. By the time they turned off the road at Fitzpatricks there was a queue of traffic a mile long behind us.

Knowing someone who lives in Annaloughan and drives home at the same time each night apparently this happens at least every fortnight and so it takes 40 minutes to drive home because the road apparently becomes their property for the duration of their meet. This person contacted the club and was told they had a right to use the road and the reason they don't use the hard shoulder is because the hard shoulder may contain debris that could cause punctures.

Cyclists are welcome to have their meets but until they are paying road tax they can fúck right off with essentially closing a road at will. I've never been so infuriated behind the wheel in my life. Complete and utter disregard towards the fact that all road-users are SHARING a road.

I wish nothing but frequent punctures and grazed knees for the lot of those obnoxious cúnts.

hardCopy

whelan1 wrote: »

locum-motion wrote: »

A cyclist is a road user, same as you the driver.

They're entitled to be on/in the roadway, and while it makes sense to stay as far to the left (close to - but not in - the hard shoulder), it is not always practical to stay very far left as the surface can be dodgy.

They're also entitled to ride 2 abreast, but not more, I think, although I'm open to correction. I'm basing that on someone I heard talking to Matt Cooper on the radio today.

If you (as a driver) are approaching behind a cyclist or cyclists, you have to stay behind them until it is safe to pass, same as you would if it was a car. If that means slowing down to 25-30 km/h because there's a truck coming the other way, then so be it.

If you are 'dodging cyclists', and having 'near misses' as you try to pass them, then you, Sir, need to have a long hard look at your own driving.

so its ok to weave in front of a car thats trying to overtake you! thats the dangerous part . There is nothing wrong with my driving, its the split second movements of the cyclists thats dangerous , all i ask is for them to realise they are not the only ones on that road... obviously its a big ask

Split second movements of cyclists are exactly why you should give adequate clearance. 1.5 metres MINIMUM. If you're having frequent close calls then you're probably to blame. Really you should leave the lane completely to overtake, same as if you were passing a caravan.

kormak

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Driving around the roundabout heading out to Carlingford one evening I was stopped my marshalls on the roundabout to clear the way for the cyclists. They were at least 500m down the road approaching the roundabout and the marshall would not let me pass (I'd have been at the ballymac hotel by the time they arrived at the roundabout had I been let pass.

Can someone clear something up for me...
I was always under the impression that only Gardaí & lollypop ladies are legally allowed to stop/direct traffic. No one else!
On a separate note, I had one such incident recently where even though my light was green, a workman decided to stop me and allow redlight traffic through.
With absolutely no understandable reason why he was doing this I just ploughed passed him and his stupid hand signals!! :eek:

ShiverinEskimo

Yea the marshall had no right to stop me and in fact had I been distracted at all I would have ran him over fairly easily. He stepped off the roundabout itself into the right lane (nearest the cente of the roundabout).

By the time I had stopped 3 more had stepped out to close the other lanes on the roundabout. Despite my protests he wouldn't move and completely ignored me. I couldn't run him over so I had to sit there. That's when the rage began to flood up.

By the time I passed Fitzpatricks I had turned into the Hulk. As you can see from my last post I still haven't come to terms with it.

feck sake lads

let's face it folks when people get into cars trucks tractors or whatever something strange happens to them jeckyll and hyde syndrome:D:D thats a fact they see a cyclist as a target a nuisance on there road how dare they hold me up riding a bloody bike on a public road shocking state of affaira altogether:D
i have been a cyclist most of my life i seen it all believe me ,
i'm also a motorist and yes i#ve seen some freds out there ,but club cyclists are mainly if not fully car conscious we know your there please be patient it only takes a few minutes for cyclists to give way not hours as some might think but it's the usual when your in a car your always in a hurry ,and remember it's a human on a bike cars can kill would you like that on your CV

furiousox

I can accept being stuck behind a large group of racing cyclists can be frustrating but there seems to be a widespread intolerance of cyclists in this country, especially compared to the Continent.
What is it about cyclists that drive some motorists crazy?
People will happily slow down and wait for tractors, horses, wide loads and slow moving vehicles but cyclists seem to bring out total impatience and irrational rage in some.
Not just groups but pairs or even single cyclists seem to be a red rag to some drivers.
There's no such thing as road tax btw, it's motor tax.

Wishbone Ash

kormak wrote: »

I had the pleasure of meeting a lone cyclist (man in his 50s) literally cycling around a foot in from the white line, in the middle of the road. Perfectly wide and smooth hard shoulder not to mention the near perfect road condition!!
I f*cking blew him out of it (car horn in-case anyone gets any ideas! ).. out of sheer frustration of nearly killing the man from driving 100km per hour around a slight bend

Sounds like you were driving too fast if you nearly killed him. It could have been a tractor or livestock. The cyclist may have been intending to make a right turn and therefore would be obliged to take up a position about one foot from the white line.

kormak wrote: »

I was always under the impression that only Gardaí & lollypop ladies are legally allowed to stop/direct traffic. No one else!
On a separate note, I had one such incident recently where even though my light was green, a workman decided to stop me and allow redlight traffic through.
With absolutely no understandable reason why he was doing this I just ploughed passed him and his stupid hand signals!! :eek:

What you did was illegal as a person in charge of roadworks is entitled to stop/direct traffic. Customs officials and persons in charge of animals are also allowed to stop/direct traffic.

Beasty

Marshalls at cycling races can ask motorists to stop, but have absolutely no power to force them to do so (unless they are guards themselves, which can sometimes be the case with organised races)

However if a driver has been made aware of the cyclists and chooses to ignore the warnings and an accident ensues, it is much more likely that they could face prosecution for dangerous/careless driving or the like.

ShiverinEskimo

furiousox wrote: »

I can accept being stuck behind a large group of racing cyclists can be frustrating but there seems to be a widespread intolerance of cyclists in this country, especially compared to the Continent.
What is it about cyclists that drive some motorists crazy?
People will happily slow down and wait for tractors, horses, wide loads and slow moving vehicles but cyclists seem to bring out total impatience and irrational rage in some.
Not just groups but pairs or even single cyclists seem to be a red rag to some drivers.
There's no such thing as road tax btw, it's motor tax.

When cyclists and their marshalls completely take over a lane of traffic in the early evening then of course there will be intolerance. Riding 4/5/6 abreast while a stream of cars is held up at 20kmph for 20/30 minutes shows a total and utter lack of respect for other road users.

If there was a row of tractors, horses and wide loads blocking an entire stretch of road every fortnight you would find people fairly intolerant of those too. It's the insistance of the cyclists to block an entire lane of traffic while refusing to use the hard shoulder every other week that causes the infuriation.

It's also worth bearing in mind that tractors and wide-loads are not holding up traffic for recreational purposes. Single cyclists going to and from work etc. are fine by me and I have all the patience and courtesy in the world for them. But this business of ruining other people's evening so you can enjoy yours is bollox.

alphabeat

whats with the ' until they pay road tax ' b0ll0x ?

you dont think 'road tax ' goes on the roads do ya ?

all tax is used on the roads - road tax is just a tax like PAYE .

so we all pay the ' de rode tax '

just suck it up and stop moanin about cyclists like a little ho

ShiverinEskimo

alphabeat wrote: »

whats with the ' until they pay road tax ' b0ll0x ?

you dont think 'road tax ' goes on the roads do ya ?

all tax is used on the roads - road tax is just a tax like PAYE .

so we all pay the ' de rode tax '

just suck it up and stop moanin about cyclists like a little ho

Thanks for your well-written and insightful contribution to the discussion.

It's a real pleasure to decipher your opinions on the subject.

shamwari

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

When cyclists and their marshalls completely take over a lane of traffic in the early evening then of course there will be intolerance. Riding 4/5/6 abreast while a stream of cars is held up at 20kmph for 20/30 minutes shows a total and utter lack of respect for other road users.

If there was a row of tractors, horses and wide loads blocking an entire stretch of road every fortnight you would find people fairly intolerant of those too. It's the insistance of the cyclists to block an entire lane of traffic while refusing to use the hard shoulder every other week that causes the infuriation.

It's also worth bearing in mind that tractors and wide-loads are not holding up traffic for recreational purposes. Single cyclists going to and from work etc. are fine by me and I have all the patience and courtesy in the world for them. But this business of ruining other people's evening so you can enjoy yours is bollox.

Patience and courtesy my ass. If the people of Kerry and Wicklow can tolerate thousands of cyclists for a whole day then whats wrong with a smaller number over a smaller time scale in Louth, or for that matter, anywhere else?

tayto lover

These cyclists from Cuchullain Cycling Club are a regular hazard on the Dundalk / Carlingford Road and are a complete nuisance. They think they own the road and put their enjoyment ahead of the needs of any other road users. I've had many a near miss with them.

Tonyandthewhale

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Thanks for your well-written and insightful contribution to the discussion.

It's a real pleasure to decipher your opinions on the subject.

He's not exactly eloquent but he is right (about the road tax thing, not necessarily about you being 'a little ho.'

There's no such thing as road tax, you pay motor tax and the proceeds from it go into a general fund just like any other tax so someone who pays the high rate of PAYE is just as likely to be making a greater than average contribution to paying for the roads as someone paying a high rate of motor tax.
Also, most of those fellas blocking up the road probably drove to the start of the race and will drive home. So they are paying motor tax, or 'road tax' if you want to call it that.

rich.d.berry

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

When cyclists and their marshalls completely take over a lane of traffic in the early evening then of course there will be intolerance. Riding 4/5/6 abreast while a stream of cars is held up at 20kmph for 20/30 minutes shows a total and utter lack of respect for other road users.

I somehow doubt that they are 4/5/6 abreast, and if they are then it's not your responsibility to police them. I also doubt that motorists are held up by any more than 20 or 30 seconds.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

It's also worth bearing in mind that tractors and wide-loads are not holding up traffic for recreational purposes. Single cyclists going to and from work etc. are fine by me and I have all the patience and courtesy in the world for them. But this business of ruining other people's evening so you can enjoy yours is bollox.

I have to tolerate motorists using their vehicles for non essential journeys, polluting and using dwindling natural resources in the process. I have no right to forbid it though. It is the motorists right as long as they do so legally. Likewise, cyclists have every right to engage in their chosen leisure pursuits on the roads, and you no right to forbid it either.

If they are breaking the law and purposely obstructing traffic then, by all means, report their actions to the gardae.

ShiverinEskimo

shamwari wrote: »

whats wrong with a smaller number over a smaller time scale in Louth, or for that matter, anywhere else?

Read my posts. I've explained at length what is wrong.

Entire lane taken over on a busy road at a busy time.
Turns a 20 minute journey into a 50 minute journey.
As many as 6 abreast with no gaps to allow safe overtaking.
Marshals stopping traffic dangerously in the middle of the roundabout.
Refusing to allow traffic to pass.
Refusing to use the hard shoulder.
Cycling club ignore complaints made my locals.

If that happens regularly throughout Wicklow and Kerry then I'd be very concerned for Wicklow and Kerry people.

rich.d.berry wrote: »

I somehow doubt that they are 4/5/6 abreast, and if they are then it's not your responsibility to police them. I also doubt that motorists are held up by any more than 20 or 30 seconds.

You doubt? How do you doubt? How long does it take to cycle from the Ballymac Roundabout to the junction at Fitzpatricks pub? A considerable amount of time. Had it been safe to pass I would have, but it wasn't safe, so I didn't.

Not sure where you're getting 20 or 30 seconds from - I'm really at a loss to how you come up with that.

rich.d.berry wrote: »

I have to tolerate motorists using their vehicles for non essential journeys, polluting and using dwindling natural resources in the process. I have no right to forbid it though. It is the motorists right as long as they do so legally. Likewise, cyclists have every right to engage in their chosen leisure pursuits on the roads, and you no right to forbid it either.

If they are breaking the law and purposely obstructing traffic then, by all means, report their actions to the gardae.

It was reported to the Gardaí - nothing they can do apparently.

And I do tolerate it - what did you think I did? I didn't mow them down, I didn't 'police' them as you think I must have. I sat behind them foolishly thinking that at some point they would filter down to maybe 2 abreast so I could pass safely. But no. They didn't and I drove the whole way from Ballymac to Fitzpatricks at 20kmph or less keeping a safe distance as is required. Try it yourself sometime - see if it only takes 20 or 30 seconds.

feck sake lads

tayto lover wrote: »

These cyclists from Cuchullain Cycling Club are a regular hazard on the Dundalk / Carlingford Road and are a complete nuisance. They think they own the road and put their enjoyment ahead of the needs of any other road users. I've had many a near miss with them.

Ah Now its probable one of the best run clubs in ireland bar none.
no i'm not a member and i live in drogheda.
its a simple fact folks roads are not just for cars ,

rich.d.berry

tayto lover wrote: »

These cyclists from Cuchullain Cycling Club are a regular hazard on the Dundalk / Carlingford Road and are a complete nuisance. They think they own the road and put their enjoyment ahead of the needs of any other road users. I've had many a near miss with them.

Then report them to the gardae, you can even use a dash mounted video camera to gather evidence. Or why not bring your complaints in person to the cycling club.

But, I suspect that the cyclists are acting legally, and any near misses are as a result of your impatience and recklessness. But, please feel free to prove me wrong. I'd be more than willing to eat my words and offer an apology for doubting you if you were to post the incriminating video evidence here. I think that I speak for all reasonable, law abiding, cyclists in saying so.

furiousox

tayto lover wrote: »

These cyclists from Cuchullain Cycling Club are a regular hazard on the Dundalk / Carlingford Road and are a complete nuisance. They think they own the road.....

All of them are a nuisance and they all think they own the road?

ShiverinEskimo

At no stage have I said what they are doing is illegal. Just that it's obnoxious and inconsiderate to other road users.

Like I said - I did what was required - I waited, and waited and waited. I didn't risk anything and I didn't endanger any cyclist in any way. But I did hate every single one of them to the very core for the utter disregard they show to motorists in much the same way I'm sure cyclists hate motorists who show utter disregard to cyclists.

Also - the points about the motor tax I take on-board and stand fully corrected. Touché.

furiousox

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

At no stage have I said what they are doing is illegal. Just that it's obnoxious and inconsiderate to other road users.
Like I said - I did what was required - I waited, and waited and waited. I didn't risk anything and I didn't endanger any cyclist in any way. But I did hate every single one of them to the very core for the utter disregard they show to motorists in much the same way I'm sure cyclists hate motorists who show utter disregard to cyclists.
Also - the points about the motor tax I take on-board and stand fully corrected. Touché.

I can understand your frustration, I've been on both sides of this scenario.
It's club racing season at the moment, I don't know what alternative there is apart from closing the road completely which is unrealistic.

ShiverinEskimo

furiousox wrote: »

I can understand your frustration, I've been on both sides of this scenario.
It's club racing season at the moment, I don't know what alternative there is apart from closing the road completely which is unrealistic.

Use the hard shoulder.
Select a better day/time than 6pm/7pm Thursday (Commuters, late-night shopping in town).
Stop Marshalls from dangerously stopping traffic mid-roundabout (seriously, safety reasons alone are reason enough to stop this practice)
Cordon or designate over-taking areas in wider sections of the road and ensure the pace vehicles co-ordinate these.
Alert traffic approaching the route (first I knew of it was when a marshall stepped out)
Limit cyclists to two abreast except when passing another cyclist (this should already be the norm)

And if the race format permits, break the group into sub-groups starting at intervals so there are gaps to overtake. Sort of like rally motorsport only with a few cyclists starting at each window a number of minutes apart.

rich.d.berry

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

You doubt? How do you doubt? How long does it take to cycle from the Ballymac Roundabout to the junction at Fitzpatricks pub? A considerable amount of time. Had it been safe to pass I would have, but it wasn't safe, so I didn't.

And I do tolerate it - what did you think I did? I didn't mow them down, I didn't 'police' them as you think I must have. I sat behind them foolishly thinking that at some point they would filter down to maybe 2 abreast so I could pass safely. But no. They didn't and I drove the whole way from Ballymac to Fitzpatricks at 20kmph or less keeping a safe distance as is required. Try it yourself sometime - see if it only takes 20 or 30 seconds.

Apologies, my misunderstanding. I thought that you were referring to cyclists in a group out for a training spin, I hadn't realised that it was a club race. I can understand now how it added 20 minutes to your journey.

It does seem strange that they should choose the late night shopping day to do it. A Wednesday would seem far more sensible.

I'm not sure what to say about it. One would think that they could do a diversion loop about a 3rd to half of the way into the Ballymac to Fitzpatricks road to allow following vehicles through and then rejoin later or at the same point. Not knowing the road layout means that I don't know if it's even possible to do a loop. It may be worth suggesting something like that to the club race organisers.

tayto lover

Two abreast is the rule and the cyclists should stick to it. If they did that then everyone would be happy. Surely they know the law.

Bunnyhopper

We're all inconvenienced every day by other people.

Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time cars have to wait at a level crossing? Every time cars have to queue behind a bus at a stop? Every time cars are delayed by someone on horseback or by a learner driver? Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time a cyclist is delayed by a queue of cars, or every time a pedestrian has to wait to cross the road because of traffic? Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate when streets are closed for the Marathon or a Formula 1 display or Paddy's Day or Obama?

At one time or another I've been the one delayed in most of those situations, and I've been the one causing the delay in a lot of them. Either way it's just traffic, it's just other people having lives that have different priorities to mine, and we all deal with it every day.

How many accidents were there on those roundabouts, given how dangerous the marshals were being, and what did the Gardaí have to say about this danger?

The hard shoulder is not part of the road: it's a hard shoulder. Using it, like enforcing a two-abreast rule, would encourage dangerous overtaking, as anyone who cycles much will know. If you were to cordon off overtaking areas I'd wager someone else would be on here to complain about bits of the road being cordoned off. If the race were broken up into sections and riders sent out in small groups then there might also be someone complaining that the whole race takes too long and why asking why those obnoxious cyclists can't all go off in one bunch and get it over with quickly.

Chips Lovell

Road races are generally held with the permission of the local Gardaí.

Marshals don't have any authority to stop traffic. Their role is advise motorists of an oncoming hazard, i.e. the race.

Marshals will generally err on the side of caution. It's far better to advise traffic to stop a little too early than risk sending a car towards a fast moving bunch of riders.

Most road races would move at speeds of between 40 and 45kph. I've yet to see a tailback of more than a few cars on even major stage races.

ShiverinEskimo

Bunnyhopper wrote: »

Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time cars have to wait at a level crossing? No. It's safe.
Every time cars have to queue behind a bus at a stop? No it's traffic.
Every time cars are delayed by someone on horseback or by a learner driver? No. They don't actively block traffic and prevent overtaking.
Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate every time a cyclist is delayed by a queue of cars. No. That's traffic.
Every time a pedestrian has to wait to cross the road because of traffic? No. It's safe and there are lights in place to ensure the junction is shared fairly by motorists and pedestrians alike.
Is it obnoxious and inconsiderate when streets are closed for the Marathon or a Formula 1 display or Paddy's Day or Obama? No. They are once-offs, at weekends and accomodate quite a considerable number of spectators, have diversions in place and the public is notified well in advance.

Got any more?

ThisRegard

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Cyclists are welcome to have their meets but until they are paying road tax they can fúck right off with essentially closing a road at will. I've never been

You can bet that the majority of people at these meets and races get there by car, on which they pay their motor tax.

ShiverinEskimo

ThisRegard wrote: »

You can bet that the majority of people at these meets and races get there by car, on which they pay their motor tax.

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

Also - the points about the motor tax I take on-board and stand fully corrected. Touché.

.

Jawgap

Two abreast reminds me of the Simpsons.....

Ned Flanders: “You were bicycling two abreast?”
Homer Simpson: “I wish. We were bicycling to a lake.”

The Simpsons, ‘Dangerous Curves’ (Episode 2005), first broadcast, November 10th 2008

ThisRegard

Well what point about 'road' tax did you take on board, that it doesn't exist, it that cyclists pay motor tax like you do?

The road tax argument is the token ill thought out argument by most anti cyclist drivers.

ShiverinEskimo

The point taken on board was my referral to it as Road Tax, when in fact it is motor tax and therefore inapplicable to cyclists and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat them with.

But sure ignore every other point I made and hit me with the motor tax thing again if you like. Big difference between being anti-cyclist and being pissed off when a large group of cyclists insist on hogging an entire lane of a busy road on a fairly regular basis.

triggermortis

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

The point taken on board was my referral to it as Road Tax, when in fact it is motor tax and therefore inapplicable to cyclists and shouldn't be used as a stick to beat them with.

But sure ignore every other point I made and hit me with the motor tax thing again if you like. Big difference between being anti-cyclist and being pissed off when a large group of cyclists insist on hogging an entire lane of a busy road on a fairly regular basis.

So, from your own words, you get annoyed by slow moving traffic which just happens to be a group of cyclists? (and I doubt that they are going at 20Km/h!)

buffalo

ShiverinEskimo wrote: »

When cyclists and their marshalls completely take over a lane of traffic in the early evening then of course there will be intolerance. Riding 4/5/6 abreast while a stream of cars is held up at 20kmph for 20/30 minutes shows a total and utter lack of respect for other road users.

20kmph? I should get down to this race, I could win that easily! If it moved at that speed, surely you'd be able to overtake at some point? More than likely you're exaggerating, because most races travel at a speed of at least 35kmph, and usually more like 40kmph.

And if you're exaggerating that point, I see no reason to believe you're not exaggerating the rest of your statements.

I have marshalled at races in Meath, Wicklow and in Dublin. Usually once a race, I encounter somebody who considers their time far more important than everyone else's, and would endanger lives given half a chance. I have seen a clearly visible marshall clipped by a car, and the driver blamed the marshall for getting in the way. I have had bumpers against my knees on more than one occasion. All because the driver was being delayed by, at the most, two full minutes.

If the club in question are not doing anything illegal, and are not endangering your life, I suggest you either learn to live with the delay, or avoid it. Or join! See the world from the saddle!