National Manager Banned from OS - The Fallout

FewFew

Has anyone else been reading the "National Manager Banned" thread in the on-site forums?

Pretty embarrassing, in my opinion it certainly reflects worse on the community than Greyhound's performance.

Just in case it kicks off here, let's be clear that personal abuse like that isn't tolerated on boards.

Zagato

Yeah, not a very mature discussion. Would be best if it finished I reckon

daheff

I know GH hasnt exactly covered himself in glory, but its gone way OTT. No need for some of the stuff thats going on.

some people need to grow up a bit. its a game, people play for fun. GH was elected NT manager for better or worse for the 2 year term (unless he resigns). The fact that people even went to the extent to try to get him removed is ridiculous. I could understand if he wasnt logging in and didnt bother picking teams...but he was.

Also people who have left the country to play in other countries SHOULDNT be involved. If they want to then they should stay in the country.

as i said elsewhere...leaves a very bad taste. It also looks bad on the community.

FewFew

daheff wrote: »

Also people who have left the country to play in other countries SHOULDNT be involved. If they want to then they should stay in the country.

That's actually a very good point... raises a few issues alright. When the Dutch went to The Netherlands BR, was their access removed from certain parts of the offsite?

When it was all kicking off, it actually did look like GH was trying to resign due to the feedback he was getting, but I'm pretty sure he was told there was no way to resign as one would do as a journo. Saw a post about it on his guestbook from one of the site admins. So, seems he doesn't like the situation more than anybody else.

mar-z

daheff wrote: »

Also people who have left the country to play in other countries SHOULDNT be involved. If they want to then they should stay in the country.

There are some of these managers still training Irish players so they should have a say.

If they have cut all ties then I agree the shouldn't get involved but if they are still putting some effort towards the Irish national team I think they have as much a right as any to say stuff.

But yeah, the fact that things have essentially reverted to namecalling is fairly embarassing and noone comes out of it looking good.

I can undestand a lot of the reaction as a number of people have put huge amounts of time into the national teams and see that Gh is barely trying by comparison. I actually took part in the early offsite arguings but having seen that nothing was going to change I've stopped caring about the senior NT until after Gh is gone. Others have decided to escalate things but the only difference it's made is for things to spill over onto the main site.

eoferrall

People had their reasons for leaving, which is fair enough but unless they are training players they should not be involved, even then I would say take a step back and only be involved re their player or if asked for advice.

Some of the most activity on that thread is from people who moved away.

I know when the dutch moved they where restrcited in the offsite from viewing the national team section.

He can't resign, so why kick up an almighty PUBLIC session of throwing toys out of pram. The community voted for him, and we have him until the end of this season. just get on with it.

This might serve to benefit the team in long run, as people will be more motivated to pitch in with new elected manager.

I think it all started with personailty clashes, and bitterness that he had never helped out and then got the job without knowing anyone.

daheff

mar-z wrote: »

There are some of these managers still training Irish players so they should have a say.

If they have cut all ties then I agree the shouldn't get involved but if they are still putting some effort towards the Irish national team I think they have as much a right as any to say stuff.

we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I trained a German U20 for the last u20 world cup. I didnt get any input into how the U20 team was run. It was kept for their community to have input.

Now I accept some people were involved before they left Ireland, but I feel that if you want to have a say in how the NT /U20s work, then you need to stay in the country. Otherwise you are an outsider training a player...and nothing more.

seanand

sorry

but in fairness most my posts were just taking the piss until he started slagging people pretty brutally. like what he siad to most to mouse was not fair and well clamps prob deserved most of it .

also im about 100% sure theres a resign button for nt manager because iv seen mid season elections for nt and u20 managers

mar-z

There is a resign option, he just doesn't want to.

The abuse on all sides just reminds me (although still to a lesser degree) of one of the main reasons I dislike online play in general.

mar-z

daheff wrote: »

we'll have to agree to disagree on this one. I trained a German U20 for the last u20 world cup. I didnt get any input into how the U20 team was run. It was kept for their community to have input.

Now I accept some people were involved before they left Ireland, but I feel that if you want to have a say in how the NT /U20s work, then you need to stay in the country. Otherwise you are an outsider training a player...and nothing more.

Fair enough, I didn't mean they should have input/be able to view tactics and the like but I just think that if you have put so much resources into a player for the team you are entitled to be able to express an opinion on how it's been managed.

Anyway, agree to disagree as you say.

FewFew

seanand wrote: »

also im about 100% sure theres a resign button for nt manager because iv seen mid season elections for nt and u20 managers

mar-z wrote: »

There is a resign option, he just doesn't want to.

The abuse on all sides just reminds me (although still to a lesser degree) of one of the main reasons I dislike online play in general.

Yeah, I thought there must be some sort of option, but I followed a discussion between GH and an admin, where it looked like GH wanted to resign and the admin told him he'd just have to ride it out. Pretty sure it was done through guestbook comments.

In relation to all the personal abuse, they may be content to hide behind their anonymity, but as with on boards, they're still abusing/defaming a person and all it takes is for one person to take action.

I didn't want to bust out the "if you were a real journalist" line, but if Mouseonfire published his journo piece in a newspaper,well, he'd be up for a number of different sanctions.

eoferrall wrote: »

I know when the dutch moved they where restrcited in the offsite from viewing the national team section.

So there is a precedent. It should really be put into effect now too.

seanand

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, I thought there must be some sort of option, but I followed a discussion between GH and an admin, where it looked like GH wanted to resign and the admin told him he'd just have to ride it out. Pretty sure it was done through guestbook comments.

it was with zt i remember reading it, it was more he was asking did we have a way of getting rid of him more than and zt saying no they just have to ride it out.
i hope he agree to the term ruck gave him to get back on the offsite and he behaves himself and takes advice. id be happy if he just took some advice from new assistant at least. i may not be in ireland anymore but i still take interest in the u20s and nat team and i hope they do well

mar-z

Fewcifur wrote: »

Yeah, I thought there must be some sort of option, but I followed a discussion between GH and an admin, where it looked like GH wanted to resign and the admin told him he'd just have to ride it out. Pretty sure it was done through guestbook comments.

I think that was him complaining about people trying to force hime to resign and he was told he would just have to ride it out (the abuse/forcing)

In relation to all the personal abuse, they may be content to hide behind their anonymity, but as with on boards, they're still abusing/defaming a person and all it takes is for one person to take action.

I didn't want to bust out the "if you were a real journalist" line, but if Mouseonfire published his journo piece in a newspaper,well, he'd be up for a number of different sanctions.

He is as bad at it though and while I'm sure some will say either he/they started it, it doesn't matter to me. I've never had patience with all that online stuff. Especially since its (supposed to be) a family game.

The only one I have a problem with (besides just annoyance at them) is Mouse using the journo position like that. Although he did delete it when he was called on it.

So there is a precedent. It should really be put into effect now too.

I think they are restricted like the Dutch on the offsite though. Don't think the former Irish based managers can post in the NT sections.

eoferrall

Seanand can you confirm you are restricted on the offiste?

seanand

eoferrall wrote: »

Seanand can you confirm you are restricted on the offiste?

yep i can confirm i am, only irish based managers can see all that stuff, some foreign based irish managers i.e thmush are restricted down to newb

FewFew

seanand wrote: »

it was with zt i remember reading it, it was more he was asking did we have a way of getting rid of him more than and zt saying no they just have to ride it out.
i hope he agree to the term ruck gave him to get back on the offsite and he behaves himself and takes advice. id be happy if he just took some advice from new assistant at least. i may not be in ireland anymore but i still take interest in the u20s and nat team and i hope they do well

Hah ah ok, I took it the other way. Here was I having some sympathy for the guy. Hah, guess he's being as stubborn as I always assumed he would be.

seanand wrote: »

yep i can confirm i am, only irish based managers can see all that stuff, some foreign based irish managers i.e thmush are restricted down to newb

Ah that's good, at least it's a solid rule so.

Phonehead

I suppose I am one of these foreigners voicing opinions! However as someone who has invested so much real life effort into the community I thought I had a right to an opinion!! I have been critical but never personal insults (which GH always resorts to) Personally I don't think I will ever train Irish again, I think the community has been spoon fed by a few far for too long.(our fault as much as the communities). I know I would gladly pay JPs transfer fee to Canada as I think he is doing too much. It's probably time to let the community settle into itself and let new faces step up.

FewFew

Phonehead wrote: »

I suppose I am one of these foreigners voicing opinions! However as someone who has invested so much real life effort into the community I thought I had a right to an opinion!! I have been critical but never personal insults (which GH always resorts to) Personally I don't think I will ever train Irish again, I think the community has been spoon fed by a few far for too long.(our fault as much as the communities). I know I would gladly pay JPs transfer fee to Canada as I think he is doing too much. It's probably time to let the community settle into itself and let new faces step up.

I don't really get all the negativity though. Greyhound got elected, he didn't play ball, he's the problem and will be gone by the end of the season.

Phonehead

I suppose for me it comes down to all the real life effort I put into getting a training system for the NT in place, that's gone as many managers who were training have said never again. Mouse is putting in effort to his credit but it's pointless when the NT manager keeps dropping players on a weekly basis for inferior two hit skill CSR beasts.

eoferrall

Phonehead wrote: »

I suppose for me it comes down to all the real life effort I put into getting a training system for the NT in place, that's gone as many managers who were training have said never again. Mouse is putting in effort to his credit but it's pointless when the NT manager keeps dropping players on a weekly basis for inferior two hit skill CSR beasts.

Doesn't help alright, but IMO only the top div II and DIV I teams have use for players of that caliber, and many of the managers who train are in div III etc where you are better off with two or three at 100-120 than one at 200K for example.

I know I stopped training each of my players around the 120/130k mark and moved to the next YA pull.

It's like a revolving door, you start off with lads around 20/30 and train lads pretty quick higher than that who become first teamers and then they get replaced. So when I get around to replacing the players currently at 150K i will likely need someone around 200k and these I would be aiming for the NT.

players with that high a CSR are expensive and not many teams can afford it without it damaging their squad.

cclampett

daheff wrote: »

Also people who have left the country to play in other countries SHOULDNT be involved. If they want to then they should stay in the country.

why do i get the feeling this is directed my way?

seanand

cclampett wrote: »

why do i get the feeling this is directed my way?

because you threw the toys out of the pram and went to mammy wex

eoferrall

cclampett wrote: »

why do i get the feeling this is directed my way?

Don't think it was - there was people getting involved from all over. think from my scan there were people on it that are not even irish or playing in Ireland to have a dig... cough the zec?

seanand wrote: »

because you threw the toys out of the pram and went to mammy wex

Or this?!

FewFew

seanand wrote: »

because you threw the toys out of the pram and went to mammy wex

Hah! Yeaaah

eoferrall wrote: »

Don't think it was - there was people getting involved from all over. think from my scan there were people on it that are not even irish or playing in Ireland to have a dig... cough the zec?

It did get hugely messy, and I didn't even dig too deep into all the old threads. People throwing an oar in from all over the world. Must have a look at some of the other off-sites and see if there's any banter at our expense, the fudgers! :pac:

daheff

cclampett wrote: »

why do i get the feeling this is directed my way?

Not just specifically you clampett. any irish managers who have left and still want to have an input. I dont think they are entitled to have a say. No more so than I would in another country. I think managers should only be able to have an input in the country they are playing in.

As for an opinion, everybodys entitled to one (or two :rolleyes:) on the matter.


Just to be clear of my feelings on this, i dont support either side of this. I think its been unsightly and a big step back for the community as a whole. I know its definitely put people off being involved in the future (me included).

cclampett

as for the zec, he is a forum mod, and some of the comments were well out of line, he had to step in, the little bit of advice he threw in was unessecary though

daheff wrote: »

Not just specifically you clampett. any irish managers who have left and still want to have an input. I dont think they are entitled to have a say. No more so than I would in another country. I think managers should only be able to have an input in the country they are playing in.

As for an opinion, everybodys entitled to one (or two :rolleyes:) on the matter.


Just to be clear of my feelings on this, i dont support either side of this. I think its been unsightly and a big step back for the community as a whole. I know its definitely put people off being involved in the future (me included).

i disagree, i think i'm still entitled to throw in my 2 cents. i was a part of the community,and continue to respond to PM's concering BRI with my opinions/advice as well. when it comes to voting it's different.

my feelings on this, GH getting elected was a big step back, for me it's one of those things beyond comprehension, i think about those 30 other voters and wonder " why would ye do such a thing?"

Phonehead

Well Daheff I'm thinking all my trainees will go Canadian based on your logic!!! Up to you to continue your sterling commitment to NT training

FewFew

cclampett wrote: »

my feelings on this, GH getting elected was a big step back, for me it's one of those things beyond comprehension, i think about those 30 other voters and wonder " why would ye do such a thing?"

That's like saying "Oh no, George Bush got elected, I'm moving to Mexico!"
People going with Div 2 over Div 4, not an incomprehensible judgement call, is hardly a reason to give up. Maybe temporarily withdraw from the national scene, but to abandon ship strikes me as a bit much.

eoferrall

Phonehead wrote: »

Well Daheff I'm thinking all my trainees will go Canadian based on your logic!!! Up to you to continue your sterling commitment to NT training

That's not what he's saying really tbh. he's more saying that just cos you are training an Irish player doesn't give you an automatic right to the inner thoughts of the irish national teams unless you are an Irish team. Just like me training a romanian prop - might switch him to Irish U20 when decision time comes but doesn't mean I am getting involved with romanian national team.

Phonehead

So the fact that I set everything up on the training front and am the previous manager gives me no right

eoferrall

Phonehead wrote: »

So the fact that I set everything up on the training front and am the previous manager gives me no right

we're not talking about specific people here - we were talking about everyone weighing in who wasn't irish.

Obviously as a massive part of setting it up etc you can have a voice in things should you so wish or if someone wants your advise I am sure you'd provide it willingly....or would have until the GH stuff.

but I feel everyone should draw a line under it and move on, he's gone at the end of the season and then we'll see where we lie

seanand

soon to be good looking win maybe his new assistance amleto and wonder can control him

Phonehead

seanand wrote: »

soon to be good looking win maybe his new assistance amleto and wonder can control him

The pregame stars suggest TNT v normal/WNWIM! Nothing to read there considering we should beat England on normal v TNT

seanand

Phonehead wrote: »

The pregame stars suggest TNT v normal/WNWIM! Nothing to read there considering we should beat England on normal v TNT

didnt see them i was trying to be optimistic sorry. zim had two great wins yay

cclampett

Fewcifur wrote: »

That's like saying "Oh no, George Bush got elected, I'm moving to Mexico!"
People going with Div 2 over Div 4, not an incomprehensible judgement call, is hardly a reason to give up. Maybe temporarily withdraw from the national scene, but to abandon ship strikes me as a bit much.

ah ffs, there were other reasons for me too, it was a combination of things, getting elected would of course kept me here, but GH getting elected was the straw ....

cclampett

oh, and the heavily biased pro canada news starts now with an "Americans are obese" dig, brings me right back to the days of wings moms basement