Farage weighs in...

Scofflaw

Nigel Farage and other MEPs from the "Europe for Freedom and Democracy" group gave a press conference in the Shelbourne today, calling for a No vote on the Treaty. This follows on from the group's referendum leaflet, distributed to 1 million homes.

Some rather mick-taking coverage here: http://www.broadsheet.ie/2012/05/16/far-right-eu-hipsters-in-ireland/

Some background on Morten Messerschmidt here: http://www.irishleftreview.org/2012/05/16/irish-times-publishes-morten-messerschmidt/

I presume we have posters who believe the contribution of the group to the referendum debate should be taken seriously- I'd add more serious sources, but Broadsheet.ie seem to be the main source covering the efforts of the UKIP and friends in our referendum, presumably because of their entertainment value.

Interesting (to me, at least) that eurosceptical and/or No groups from outside the country are generally more prone to these kind of direct interventions, whereas the other groups tend to work through the national parties and groups.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Eliot Rosewater

Perhaps the direct approach is used by UKIP etc. because they lie on the opposite side of the ideological spectrum to the traditional No campaigners in Ireland. It reminds me of a comment made of the hard nationalist parties in the European Parliament: if they came together they could have a far greater impact, but the problem is that they hate each other as much as they hate the EU!

For this story, I am tempted to invoke the sovereignty argument used by Farage and others so much. If the Treaty is going to ratified regardless by the other countries, the vote here is a totally internal matter on whether the Irish people want to be involved in the inevitable pact. So then why is a pro-sovereignty anti-EU British MEP here arguing either way?

Fussgangerzone

It's hardly surprising that nobody in Irish politics wants to hang out with the far right is it?

On the left, the democratic socialist working group of the European Parliament GUE / NGL have thrown in with our own ULA, so that's one, anyway.

pconn062

Can someone please explain to me why this UK MEP is getting involved in an Irish referendum? Seriously, I can't get my head around it, he's currently on a debate panel on the Last Word along with Irish TD's and trade union leaders. It's bizarre.

seamus

pconn062 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why this UK MEP is getting involved in an Irish referendum? Seriously, I can't get my head around it, he's currently on a debate panel on the Last Word along with Irish TD's and trade union leaders. It's bizarre.

This is about the best time to launch an anti-EU assault with the aim of collapsing the union as with the general fiscal issues, the political unsurity in Greece and a referendum in Ireland, the union has never been quite this unstable.

I imagine UKIP have similar anti-EU campaigns running in Greece and in France during the recent presidential election.

beeftotheheels

pconn062 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why this UK MEP is getting involved in an Irish referendum? Seriously, I can't get my head around it, he's currently on a debate panel on the Last Word along with Irish TD's and trade union leaders. It's bizarre.

And calling an Irish politician a collaborator and vichyite.

On the flip side Mary Lou is sounding like Tsipras - the ESM will fund us because the cost of the euro failing is too great - can she not see how well that's working for Greece?

pconn062

seamus wrote: »

This is about the best time to launch an anti-EU assault with the aim of collapsing the union as with the general fiscal issues, the political unsurity in Greece and a referendum in Ireland, the union has never been quite this unstable.

I imagine UKIP have similar anti-EU campaigns running in Greece and in France during the recent presidential election.

Yes very likely. It's just strange that he's been given such a public pedastool, surely there are more important people that could contribute to such a debate?

seamus

I caught the end of this, Farage was given the last word on why to vote no. His two reasons basically were, "don't give up your sovereignty to the EU masters" and "you'll look foolish if the euro collapses".

Compelling stuff there :rolleyes:

He also conveniently ignores the fact that as an MEP, he's one of the "EU Masters" he complains about.

Though I lol'ed when they said to Mary-Lou, "Sinn Fein would increase corporation tax wouldn't they?" and she stuttered for five seconds.
Her response was basically, "Not right away, but eventually yes".

Dubhlinner

Bloody broadsheet. Isn't "far right" meant to refer to racists?

Scofflaw

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Bloody broadsheet. Isn't "far right" meant to refer to racists?

Yes - that's why they used it. Farage himself is not, I think, a racist (or even a xenophobe, although he plays the card well), and UKIP have toed the PC line recently - but the other parties those MEPs represent can very justifiably be described as racists.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dubhlinner

Scofflaw wrote: »

Yes - that's why they used it. Farage himself is not, I think, a racist (or even a xenophobe, although he plays the card well), and UKIP have toed the PC line recently - but the other parties those MEPs represent can very justifiably be described as racists.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Actual racists or just against mass immigration?

golden lane

farage may suit the uk.........but ireland is in a totally different situation....

Scofflaw

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Actual racists or just against mass immigration?

Both. The UKIP is just against the latter, of course...these days.

cordially,
Scofflaw

cyberhog

Scofflaw wrote: »

the other parties those MEPs represent can very justifiably be described as racists.

cordially,
Scofflaw

As can the far-right parties that have risen in Greece thanks to Mrs Merkel's "diktat" on austerity.

meglome

cyberhog wrote: »

As can the far-right parties that have risen in Greece thanks to Mrs Merkel's "diktat" on austerity.

Sorry now but the reason the Greeks are having austerity is the same reason we are having austerity, because we spend far more than we take in. If Merkel told us tomorrow to spend like it was our last day we'd still be having austerity.

Can you try to make this about what we're actually voting on?

Scofflaw

cyberhog wrote: »

As can the far-right parties that have risen in Greece thanks to Mrs Merkel's "diktat" on austerity.

Yes, everything is Germany's fault. The Greeks have absolutely no responsibility for the state of their country in any way, and the rise in popularity of far right parties has absolutely nothing to do with any unwillingness by the Greeks to take responsibility for their actions either present or past. Austerity is only happening in Greece because Ms Merkel enjoys it, and bears no relation whatsoever to the spending or borrowing habits of Greek governments over the last decade, which in turn have absolutely no connection with the Greek unwillingness to pay taxes or their government's willingness to indulge that reluctance. That their austerity is a horrible surprise to them has absolutely nothing to do with the Greek government spending 20 years cooking the books, lying their way into the euro, and using the expectation that Germany would stand over their debts in order to go an enormous borrowing spree spent partly on Greek public sector peculation and partly on a military willy-waving competition with their traditional enemies across the Aegean.

Totally not their responsibility in any way. I mean, dang they were so unlucky to happen to be living in the country the Germans gratuitously chose to impose austerity on by not allowing them to go on borrowing and spending like sailors on a shore spree.

totally not taking the mick,
honestly really,
Scofflaw

Ozymandius2011

I thought he made an excellent quip about how if we vote yes we would be isolated as one of the few countries likely to ratify the Treaty.

cyberhog

Scofflaw wrote: »

totally not taking the mick,
honestly really,
Scofflaw

There you go again with your sarcastic drivel. The Social Democrats put the blame squarely on Merkel's shoulders for the rise of racists in Greece.

Sigmar Gabriel, the chairman of the Social Democrats, blamed the rise of far-Right and Left parties in Greece on her "unreflective diktat" on austerity, to be enshrined in treaty law via the fiscal pact signed by 25 EU leaders last March.

"We're seeing the results of this policy in Greece: the right-wing radicals and the enemies of Europe have gained seats in parliament," he told Focus magazine.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9255534/Eurozone-crisis-Angela-Merkel-forced-to-postpone-fiskalpakt-ratification.html

Scofflaw

cyberhog wrote: »

There you go again with your sarcastic drivel. The Social Democrats put the blame squarely on Merkel's shoulders for the rise of racists in Greece.



http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9255534/Eurozone-crisis-Angela-Merkel-forced-to-postpone-fiskalpakt-ratification.html

And I'm sure that the SDP is completely objective in these matters and that this comment in no way reflects SDP's political disagreements with Merkel.

amused,
Scofflaw

seamus

Ozymandius2011 wrote: »

I thought he made an excellent quip about how if we vote yes we would be isolated as one of the few countries likely to ratify the Treaty.

But so what? The reason he said that this was a bad thing, is because, "You will look foolish". Oh noes, all the other countries will make fun of us in the playground.

If we ratify it and nobody else does, the treaty dies. I fail to see how that's a good reason to vote no; just in case everyone else does. It's exactly the opposite argument to, "Don't vote yes just because they tell you to".

NoAnimalID

This is what happens when greedy politicians serve two masters, the people and banksters, sooner or later only one can be pleased and the other upset. Unfortunately, some people are willing to embrace this on May 31st...

fianna saor

pconn062 wrote: »

Can someone please explain to me why this UK MEP is getting involved in an Irish referendum? Seriously, I can't get my head around it, he's currently on a debate panel on the Last Word along with Irish TD's and trade union leaders. It's bizarre.

get used to others meddling in irish affairs if this treaty is passed!

johnnyskeleton

Just got one of their leaflets in the post.

Nigel Farage MEP's first point against Europe is:

"During the 2002 Referendum debate, the Euro Yes men said the Treaty of Nice would not lead to a significant increase of immigratnts from Easter Europe coming to live and work in Ireland.

They were wrong[emphasis reduced].

500,000 migrants came for jobs to Ireland with attendant job displacement"

It finishes with "On may 31st, as a proud people / strike for freedom" in caps.

So an English toff wants us to vote no and get rid of the Eastern Europeans. Apart from anything else, what an ill judged campaign. No concept of how Irish people view race or politics whatsoever. It would be interesting to see what SF's response would be to him, and if they realised that they were on his side they would probably change to a "Vote Yes" stance pretty quickly.

carveone

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

It would be interesting to see what SF's response would be to him, and if they realised that they were on his side they would probably change to a "Vote Yes" stance pretty quickly.

I was flicking through channels and saw SF with some Danish guy beating up on one of our democratically elected reps. Only was there for 10 seconds but I caught his name - Messerschmidt. He was blathering about a Yes vote means a rise in corporation tax. Presumably SF was agreeing (don't know).

As a matter of curiousity I used the votewatch eu website to check how our "friends" voted on the Draft Protocol on the concerns of the Irish people on the Treaty of Lisbon. I knew that was around there somewhere - it was more recent than I though - the 18th April. That the protocol enshrining those Lisbon 2 guarantees, including the one about corporation tax:

Fascinating results:

Nigel Farage: Didn't vote
Moron Messerschmidt: Voted against.

So let me get this straight. These loons arrive here en masse and try to interfere with this referendum, bleating concern for Irish sovereignty having, only a month ago, voted against Irish interests in the EUP?

NoAnimalID

Carveone,

They are moving in the direction of harmonizing corporate tax through new amendments and treaties. This treaty is just the start. We are already under the dictatorship of the ECB towards Bankers debt, the question is, do Irish people want to continue the path of paying for other peoples debt, or do they want to become free from +/- 5 billion Euros of further cuts to services.

Sadly, some people may choose the nuclear option on may 31st...

carrolls

A referendums weakness is that some issues are too complex for an average person to fully understand what is being discussed, and they cannot make an educated judgement on the issue. That allows the likes of Farage etc to come in and muddy the water for the don't knows.
I would prefer that the people we elected were able to make these decisions on our behalf. That surely is why we elected them after all. If every voter had an economics degree, referendums would be democratic. But Its kind of obvious that people are voting on party political issues and as an angry protest against their perceived circumstances.

Godge

NoAnimalID wrote: »

Carveone,

They are moving in the direction of harmonizing corporate tax through new amendments and treaties. This treaty is just the start. We are already under the dictatorship of the ECB towards Bankers debt, the question is, do Irish people want to continue the path of paying for other peoples debt, or do they want to become free from +/- 5 billion Euros of further cuts to services.

Sadly, some people may choose the nuclear option on may 31st...

I have seen your posts across a few threads, I had thought you were opposing the treaty becacuse of the effects you believed (misguided I thought) it was having on ordinary Irish people,

But here, I find you oppose it because it might increase corporation tax on the companies that are here, which is it??????

fianna saor

carrolls wrote: »

A referendums weakness is that some issues are too complex for an average person to fully understand what is being discussed, and they cannot make an educated judgement on the issue. That allows the likes of Farage etc to come in and muddy the water for the don't knows.
I would prefer that the people we elected were able to make these decisions on our behalf. That surely is why we elected them after all. If every voter had an economics degree, referendums would be democratic. But Its kind of obvious that people are voting on party political issues and as an angry protest against their perceived circumstances.

i think some referendums are made complex on purpose to disguise whats really in them

carrolls

fianna saor wrote: »

i think some referendums are made complex on purpose to disguise whats really in them

Somebody said on the radio today that Bruton's gaffe will swing the vote 10%.
That means that 300,000 people are basing their vote on one single issue that has nothing to do with the treaty. How democratic is that?

Godge

fianna saor wrote: »

i think some referendums are made complex on purpose to disguise whats really in them

Are you saying that Irish people are thick?

meglome

fianna saor wrote: »

i think some referendums are made complex on purpose to disguise whats really in them

It's 14 pages would you get outta that.

cyberhog

Scofflaw wrote: »

And I'm sure that the SDP is completely objective in these matters and that this comment in no way reflects SDP's political disagreements with Merkel.

amused,
Scofflaw

And I suppose your constant belittlement of people that don't support the treaty makes you completely objective, does it? lol

Scofflaw

cyberhog wrote: »

And I suppose your constant belittlement of people that don't support the treaty makes you completely objective, does it? lol

I don't belittle anyone - I don't comment on your motives for making the claims you make, let alone ascribe to you any characteristics based on them - but I do reserve the right to ridicule the ridiculous claims themselves.

And those claims are ridiculous.


cordially,
Scofflaw

Dwellingdweller

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Just got one of their leaflets in the post.

Nigel Farage MEP's first point against Europe is:

"During the 2002 Referendum debate, the Euro Yes men said the Treaty of Nice would not lead to a significant increase of immigratnts from Easter Europe coming to live and work in Ireland.

They were wrong[emphasis reduced].

500,000 migrants came for jobs to Ireland with attendant job displacement"

It finishes with "On may 31st, as a proud people / strike for freedom" in caps.

So an English toff wants us to vote no and get rid of the Eastern Europeans. Apart from anything else, what an ill judged campaign. No concept of how Irish people view race or politics whatsoever. It would be interesting to see what SF's response would be to him, and if they realised that they were on his side they would probably change to a "Vote Yes" stance pretty quickly.

Don't take this personally - but this post for me epitomises the Irish outlook on Nigel Farage. We, as a nation, gang up on foreigners when they try and tell us what to do. You heard it yourselves on that debate - FF, FG, SF, at each others throats one minute, the next all making a daisy chain to tell the foreigner to f*ck off, regardless of how much sense he was speaking. An 'English toff'. Looooool. Look, this is an open statement to everyone; maybe you should judge the guy by whether or not his arguments hold up, rather than his nationality. Farage was speaking a lot of sense on that debate but nobody wanted to hear it and Michael Martin epitomised the whole thing by attempting feebly to sabotage Farage's credibility by saying he had no business giving his opinion in Ireland, because he was British and obviously wanted bad things for Ireland. :rolleyes: Seriously. Come on for f*cks sake, it's not 1916 anymore. Get your heads out of your arses and consider Farage's, or any other outsider's points in an intelligent manner rather than going on like a bunch of 12 year olds, unable to have a considered and intelligent debate.

(Again, I'm not talking to you here personally, johnnyskeleton, but to the Irish in general)

johnnyskeleton

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Don't take this personally - but this post for me epitomises the Irish outlook on Nigel Farage. We, as a nation, gang up on foreigners when they try and tell us what to do. You heard it yourselves on that debate - FF, FG, SF, at each others throats one minute, the next all making a daisy chain to tell the foreigner to f*ck off, regardless of how much sense he was speaking. An 'English toff'. Looooool. Look, this is an open statement to everyone; maybe you should judge the guy by whether or not his arguments hold up, rather than his nationality. Farage was speaking a lot of sense on that debate but nobody wanted to hear it and Michael Martin epitomised the whole thing by attempting feebly to sabotage Farage's credibility by saying he had no business giving his opinion in Ireland, because he was British and obviously wanted bad things for Ireland. :rolleyes: Seriously. Come on for f*cks sake, it's not 1916 anymore. Get your heads out of your arses and consider Farage's, or any other outsider's points in an intelligent manner rather than going on like a bunch of 12 year olds, unable to have a considered and intelligent debate.

(Again, I'm not talking to you here personally, johnnyskeleton, but to the Irish in general)

You don't see the irony in an Englishman lecturing us on the dangers of foreigners coming into this country? Seriously?

Scofflaw

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

Don't take this personally - but this post for me epitomises the Irish outlook on Nigel Farage. We, as a nation, gang up on foreigners when they try and tell us what to do. You heard it yourselves on that debate - FF, FG, SF, at each others throats one minute, the next all making a daisy chain to tell the foreigner to f*ck off, regardless of how much sense he was speaking. An 'English toff'. Looooool. Look, this is an open statement to everyone; maybe you should judge the guy by whether or not his arguments hold up, rather than his nationality. Farage was speaking a lot of sense on that debate but nobody wanted to hear it and Michael Martin epitomised the whole thing by attempting feebly to sabotage Farage's credibility by saying he had no business giving his opinion in Ireland, because he was British and obviously wanted bad things for Ireland. :rolleyes: Seriously. Come on for f*cks sake, it's not 1916 anymore. Get your heads out of your arses and consider Farage's, or any other outsider's points in an intelligent manner rather than going on like a bunch of 12 year olds, unable to have a considered and intelligent debate.

(Again, I'm not talking to you here personally, johnnyskeleton, but to the Irish in general)

Eh, we listened to an almost endless stream of complaints during Lisbon every time Sarkozy opened his mouth - or indeed any other foreigner who had the temerity to suggest we might want to ratify Lisbon - so it's hardly new.

In this particular case, it's hard to see what right Farage et al have to come and intervene. What we're voting on isn't an EU treaty, and Ireland's vote isn't a veto on the Treaty going ahead, but a multilateral intergovernmental one, which means that Ireland's ratification is purely Ireland's business. Farage wants to stick one to the EU - sure, OK, that's what he was elected for - but he's sticking his oar into a national decision with potentially very serious consequences for Ireland, because he wants Ireland to stick it to Europe on his behalf.

Were he resident here as a UK citizen, or any of the other MEPs involved as citizens of Denmark etc, he wouldn't even have the right to vote in the referendum - but he's being given speaking time on national TV and radio to try to influence the decision? Whatever about the effect he may have - and I don't think he's going to have the effect he thinks he'll have - that isn't right. This is not a "European" decision, but an entirely national one with important consequences for us.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Dwellingdweller

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

You don't see the irony in an Englishman lecturing us on the dangers of foreigners coming into this country? Seriously?

I see the irony of it, but I also see the stupidity of it, when we flat out refuse to consider what he's saying and instead choose to ignore him because he's an Englishman/foreigner (or because he has an anti-EU agenda).

Scofflaw wrote: »

Eh, we listened to an almost endless stream of complaints during Lisbon every time Sarkozy opened his mouth - or indeed any other foreigner who had the temerity to suggest we might want to ratify Lisbon - so it's hardly new.

In this particular case, it's hard to see what right Farage et al have to come and intervene. What we're voting on isn't an EU treaty, and Ireland's vote isn't a veto on the Treaty going ahead, but a multilateral intergovernmental one, which means that Ireland's ratification is purely Ireland's business. Farage wants to stick one to the EU - sure, OK, that's what he was elected for - but he's sticking his oar into a national decision with potentially very serious consequences for Ireland, because he wants Ireland to stick it to Europe on his behalf.

Were he resident here as a UK citizen, or any of the other MEPs involved as citizens of Denmark etc, he wouldn't even have the right to vote in the referendum - but he's being given speaking time on national TV and radio to try to influence the decision? Whatever about the effect he may have - and I don't think he's going to have the effect he thinks he'll have - that isn't right. This is not a "European" decision, but an entirely national one with important consequences for us.

cordially,
Scofflaw

I find it difficult to understand this outlook - because of his agenda/nationality, he has no right to join the debate? I see what you mean about it being a national decision, and something that has nothing to do with him, but the points he raised on the debate on todayfm were legitimate: the main one being that a 'yes' vote means reduced fiscal autonomy, and fiscal autonomy plays quite heavily into sovereign autonomy. Look, I'm not a serial 'no' campaigner; it seems to me that a 'no' vote would have much worse consequences for Ireland than a 'yes' vote. But, despite this, Farage raised legitimate points, as I'm sure you know. That's what I want to highlight here. Not his agenda, or that I support what he said, but that what he had to say was a worthwhile contribution to the ongoing debate on austerity/the fiscal compact. It's more important that we listen to what he has to say and take his points on board (not to agree with them - just take them on board), in my opinion, than to have a go at him because of his agenda and/or nationality.

Scofflaw

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

I see the irony of it, but I also see the stupidity of it, when we flat out refuse to consider what he's saying and instead choose to ignore him because he's an Englishman/foreigner (or because he has an anti-EU agenda).



I find it difficult to understand this outlook - because of his agenda/nationality, he has no right to join the debate? I see what you mean about it being a national decision, and something that has nothing to do with him, but the points he raised on the debate on todayfm were legitimate: the main one being that a 'yes' vote means reduced fiscal autonomy, and fiscal autonomy plays quite heavily into sovereign autonomy. Look, I'm not a serial 'no' campaigner; it seems to me that a 'no' vote would have much worse consequences for Ireland than a 'yes' vote. But, despite this, Farage raised legitimate points, as I'm sure you know. That's what I want to highlight here. Not his agenda, or that I support what he said, but that what he had to say was a worthwhile contribution to the ongoing debate on austerity/the fiscal compact. It's more important that we listen to what he has to say and take his points on board (not to agree with them - just take them on board), in my opinion, than to have a go at him because of his agenda and/or nationality.

It's not about his nationality - after all, I share Mr Farage's nationality in part - or the question of what agenda he has in respect of the EU. I have no issue with him commenting on the referendum from the UK at all - everyone is entitled to comment.

But it's not really acceptable for any interests outside Ireland to campaign in an Irish referendum. Irish No campaigners believe they're doing the best for Ireland by campaigning for a No vote, Irish Yes campaigners by campaigning for a Yes vote. Farage is doing what he perceives to be best for the UK - and if he isn't, he's not doing his job. It's not acceptable to have someone campaigning for the Irish to make the decision that's best for the UK.

The point was made earlier in the thread that Farage abstained from the the vote on the Irish Lisbon guarantees, while Morten Messerschmidt voted against them. Is that an indication of having Ireland's best interests at heart?

cordially,
Scofflaw

johnnyskeleton

Dwellingdweller wrote: »

I see the irony of it, but I also see the stupidity of it, when we flat out refuse to consider what he's saying and instead choose to ignore him because he's an Englishman/foreigner (or because he has an anti-EU agenda).

I did consider what he is saying. The very first thing his pamphlet says is a derogatory comment about Eastern Europeans which is, quite frankly, not supported by the evidence (we had full employment up to 2006 - where is the job displacement?).

Is it stupid to, having considered what he says, to disregard what he says? No, I don't think so. Is it worth nothing the irony of a british mep's call to arms for the free people of Ireland? Yes, I think so.

Finally, are people right to be wary of this soft sell racism? Absolutely.

RandomName2

carrolls wrote: »

If every voter had an economics degree, referendums would be democratic. But Its kind of obvious that people are voting on party political issues and as an angry protest against their perceived circumstances.

...if every politician had an economics degree.

Oh wait, Alan Greenspan (you know, the former Chairman of the Federal Reserve) who holds a PhD in economics (naturally) helped develop the subprime mortgage and credit crisis. Em...

Sorry for trolling your post (the perspective of which has some merit) but what do political parties do but ... vote on party lines? Ever heard of the position of chief whip? Éamon Ó Cuív certainly has. :P

RandomName2

Scofflaw wrote: »

Eh, we listened to an almost endless stream of complaints during Lisbon every time Sarkozy opened his mouth - or indeed any other foreigner who had the temerity to suggest we might want to ratify Lisbon - so it's hardly new.

I object to another head of state, legislative organ of the EU, or EU parliamentary party telling us what we should do. I have no objection to Nigel Farage giving his opinion, but I don't like it when he does so as a representative of the Europe for Freedom and Democracy group. The only caveat is that the EFD has little relative power compared to that of ALDE, PES or the EPP.

golden lane

poor nigel........but he will get his way in the uk.....one day in the near future....

meglome

RandomName2 wrote: »

I object to another head of state, legislative organ of the EU, or EU parliamentary party telling us what we should do. I have no objection to Nigel Farage giving his opinion, but I don't like it when he does so as a representative of the Europe for Freedom and Democracy group. The only caveat is that the EFD has little relative power compared to that of ALDE, PES or the EPP.

You know I didn't particularly care what Sarkosy had to say as no one really took any notice of it. Well except ironically the no campaign who seemed to take him very seriously. Farage has come here to actively campaign for a no vote, his group have sent leaflets to every house in the country. Leaflets which are the usual one-sided misdirection and bull from his lot. I can't help but notice the people who objected loudly to Sarkosy have said very little about Farage who has gone much further. Not all 'interference' is the same, not that I welcome any of it.

Nodin

cyberhog wrote: »

There you go again with your sarcastic drivel. The Social Democrats put the blame squarely on Merkel's shoulders for the rise of racists in Greece.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/germany/9255534/Eurozone-crisis-Angela-Merkel-forced-to-postpone-fiskalpakt-ratification.html

Funny, because I've been directly affected by "austerity" and the financial crisis in Ireland, yet feel no need to rush out and vote for a bunch of far right racists. Given the make up of the Dail, it would seem that held true for the vast majority of the populace.

Francie Barrett

I am delighted that Farage has taken time to come to Dublin and lecture the Irish people on the Treaty, it is bound to be another nail in the No campaign.

Nodin

Does anyone have a scan of this wondrous document or perhaps a link to one? I don't seem to have been leafleted with it.

golden lane

Francie Barrett wrote: »

I am delighted that Farage has taken time to come to Dublin and lecture the Irish people on the Treaty, it is bound to be another nail in the No campaign.

farage is only concerned about the uk.......but he would like the eu to break up, just to prove his point....

he should be patient, but he will not be the one that withdraws from the uk from the eu....it will be the conservatives....

not sure what will happen then.......

but i will be delighted.......

Francie Barrett

golden lane wrote: »

farage is only concerned about the uk.......but he would like the eu to break up, just to prove his point....

he should be patient, but he will not be the one that withdraws from the uk from the eu....it will be the conservatives....

not sure what will happen then.......

but i will be delighted.......

Farage is a nasty piece of work, a real jingoistic xenophobe who would plunge England into economic isolation for no reason other than his dislike of Europe.

golden lane

Francie Barrett wrote: »

Farage is a nasty piece of work, a real jingoistic xenophobe who would plunge England into economic isolation for no reason other than his dislike of Europe.

i wouldn't go that far.......but he is right...for the wrong reasons......

a refenendum in the uk....would mean leaving the eu....and the conservatives will be forced into one soon.....

carveone

Nodin wrote: »

Does anyone have a scan of this wondrous document or perhaps a link to one? I don't seem to have been leafleted with it.

You're missing so much! The leaflet is produced by the EFD group (Europe for Freedom and Democracy) and is a pdf which is linked to on the frontpage of their website:

http://www.efdgroup.eu/images/stories/Publications/news/EFD_Group_leaflet_irish%20.pdf

meglome

golden lane wrote: »

a refenendum in the uk....would mean leaving the eu....and the conservatives will be forced into one soon.....

And you may be right. The problem is most objective analysis say that the UK leaving the EU would be a terrible idea for the UK. Many politicians and media in the UK have played the 'blame the EU for everything' game and will have to seriously backtrack if the crunch comes.