Is this a bad driving style

obi604

Hey all

so ive been driving for the last 12 years,never been in a crash, no penalty points etc

After all this time driving, Im wondering is my driving style correct
here are examples of my driving style

example 1

Im driving along at 35mph in 4th gear and see stationery traffic 300m ahead and know I will have to stop.
About 50 metres away :
take foot off accelerator
I put my foot on clutch
slip car in to neutral
Foot off clutch
and then im free wheeling
and just tap the break gently as geeting nearer the stationery traffic
and finally fully press the break when 5 metres away
come to a stop

example 2

Im driving along at 35mph in 4th gear 300 metres from a traffic light. no one in front of me , I need to turn left and I can see the light has just turned green so I know I have a clear run to make the left turn

300 metres away in 4th gear
ease off on acceleration
coming very near the turn = no acceleration
Then II clutch and change to 2nd gear
then accelerate when past the corner i.e on the straight




Are my 2 examples a bad driving style ?
and if so, what is the correct way to perform the above manouveres ?

Mr. Presentable

In example 1, put your car in gear!

2. Seems OK.

Please Kill Me

obi604 wrote: »

Hey all

so ive been driving for the last 12 years,never been in a crash, no penalty points etc

After all this time driving, Im wondering is my driving style correct
here are examples of my driving style

example 1

Im driving along at 35mph in 4th gear and see stationery traffic 300m ahead and know I will have to stop.
About 30 metres away :
take foot off accelerator
I put my foot on clutch
slip car in to neutral
and then im free wheeling
and just tap the break gently as geeting nearer the stationery traffic
and finally fully press the break when 5 metres away
come to a stop

No, no, no, no NO!!!!

You go from 4th to 3rd (braking gently if needs be), then from 3rd to second, off the clutch, all the time braking gently, and then as you stop completely, brake and clutch go in fully.

Mister Jingles

Example 1 is anyway. Its one of the first things you're told not to do when learning how to drive.

drunkmonkey

Example 1: Don't put the car into neutral until your stopped.

Example 2: You don't really need to go down to second, all depends on the corner, but nothing wrong with what your doing. Don't brake while cornering.

dgt

Coasting in neutral could result in a lockup if you had to brake suddenly, even with ABS. Use your gears!

As for scenario 2, it depends. Personally in my own car I'd slow down in 3rd and depending on the revs I'd leave it/ change down. Depends on the situation, driver and car

Alanstrainor

Please Kill Me wrote: »

No, no, no, no NO!!!!

You go from 4th to 3rd (braking gently if needs be), then from 3rd to second, off the clutch, all the time braking gently, and then as you stop completely, brake and clutch go in fully.

That's a bit overkill to be honest; you're not even expected to do that in your driving test.

Yes keep it in gear, no point in putting it in neutral. Just gradually slow down in 4th and clutch in just before you stop. Done and dusted. Absolutely no point in changing down through all the gears.

Jimbob 83

Use your gears to slow down the car naturally, the day your brakes fail you at a junction you will know all about it

dgt

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

Use your gears to slow down the car naturally, the day your brakes fail you at a junction you will know all about it

That happened to me, seals in the master cylinder let go as I approached a crossroads. My trousers went from blue to brown...

jackofalltrades

dgt wrote: »

Coasting in neutral could result in a lockup if you had to brake suddenly, even with ABS. Use your gears!

How can coasting in neutral lead to your brakes locking up?

antodeco

I have to admit, I'm a neutral free wheeler. Forever doing it!

MugMugs

I coast but you generally shouldn't. 1 is wrong. 2 is okies.

Mugs

Dirkster

The first one is definitely wrong but I don't like the sound of the 2nd one either, the no acceleration part. I think you should always have control mechanically of what is going on with the wheels when moving i.e. either braking, cruising or accelerating.

If you're using engine braking then easing off the accelerator as opposed to not touching the pedal but then thats just opinion. I'd say I'd go with brake approaching the turn lightly and gearing down and then drive around the turn so no braking when turning.

Cedrus

1. Definitely wrong, you're not in control of the car, you're letting the car drive you, just because you know what it's doing does not put you in control. If you need more braking you've already relinquished the engine braking, if you ever need to accelerate (eg away from a late braking artic) you won't have time to put it in gear.

2. Technically wrong, you should go 4-3-2, but it really depends on speed and distance. If you're coasting between 4 and 2 then you should have been in 3, if there's no real lag then it's fine. If there's a stop sign, DEFINITELY wrong.

Nissan doctor

For the most part, there is no exact sequence to how you approach a certain junction/corner etc, it will be different depending on the location, conditions, cars gearing etc etc.

However, coasting is poor, but not only that, easing off the accelerator when you see traffic ahead and slowing, but not applying the brakes until you are right up at the traffic, might show good forward observation on your part, but its not taking other road users behind you into consideration. With no brake lights coming on you risk someone behind not noticing that you are slowing.

I'm well aware that if someone hit you from behind that it is 100% their fault....but why increase the chance of them not seeing that your stopping?

mickdw

There is no reason whatsoever to be coasting. There is always a suitable gear no matter what speed you are doing so a gear change and off the clutch again straight away is the way to go, all the way down.

dahamsta

I nearly always change down all the way. Engine braking is free.

coylemj

Please Kill Me wrote: »

No, no, no, no NO!!!!

You go from 4th to 3rd (braking gently if needs be), then from 3rd to second, off the clutch, all the time braking gently, and then as you stop completely, brake and clutch go in fully.

That is a completely ludicrous way to wear out your clutch for no good purpose. Ease off the accelerator and slow down, then brake gently and hit the clutch before the engine starts to labour/stall. If there's nobody in front of you, maybe drop to second gear for a possible quick getaway in case the lights change at the last minute but dropping down sequentially through each gear is nonsense.

keithclancy

Who cares, as long as you maintain a safe distance and know the abilities of the bits in your car to stop it/make it go faster no person can tell you the best way to drive it.

Totally depends on lots of conditions.

How about a backwards race ?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7ipFApsFec

bbuzz

Also if you leave your car in gear while rolling up to a junction there is no injection of fuel into the engine, the momentum of the car keeps the engine turning until you get down to ~1000 rpm. So you save yourself a bit of petrol, all adds up

Senna

I was always taught "always be in the right gear at the right time", never coast in neutral.
I was also told never to skip gears on the way down (or up i suppose).

Muas Tenek

I am not a mechanic - but was taught by my father who was - that coasting causes great damage as the road wheel speed does not match the half shaft / differential speed when re-engaging which may lead to gear sheer.
I hope a few mechanics on here can verify this.
Downgearing while gentle braking was how I was taught - saves clutch, gear and brake wear.

wonski

Senna wrote: »

I was always taught "always be in the right gear at the right time", never coast in neutral.
I was also told never to skip gears on the way down (or up i suppose).

I do skip on the way down, from 4th to 2nd, and can't see a problem with that. But never needed to skip one when accelerating, like 3rd to 5th - doesn't make sense, but don't think it is going to kill the gearbox in the short run.
As for being in the right gear - you are totally right.
I do, however tap the brakes from time to time, when someone is behind me, so they know i am not going to accelerate soon. And so we are clear, i am not doing it to save on brakes or anything, it is just easier to crawl along in 4th gear coming to stop, and then clutch in, or - if you are lucky and see green light - change down to 2nd, and off you go. That is how i roll...down the road.

Nonoperational

Senna wrote: »

I was always taught "always be in the right gear at the right time", never coast in neutral.
I was also told never to skip gears on the way down (or up i suppose).

Now your actually thought that skipping years on the way down is the correct way to do it. Changing down through the gears is needlessly wearing the clutch for no reason.

Dirkster

dahamsta wrote: »

I nearly always change down all the way. Engine braking is free.

Tell that to your clutch!

dahamsta

Dirkster wrote: »

Tell that to your clutch!

My current motor is actually an auto, but all previous cars have been manual, as have the ones I've driven but not owned. In more than 20 years of driving, I've changed one clutch in one car.

As the fella said, you're not doing it right.

obi604

OP here again, as usual, thanks for all the replies
I was thinking about it again and my "example 1" is actually not what I do. you know when you are in the habit of doing something when driving and then you have to put it in to words and write it down , you mess it up - which is what I did - apologies.

So anyways, when I drove in this morning, made a note of how I do things, so my example 1 is actually as follows :

example 1

> Im driving along at 35mph in 4th gear and see stationery traffic 300m ahead and know I will have to stop.
> take foot off accelerator
> gently tap on brakes leading up to traffic
> About 15 metres away now
> press clutch fully down and at same time press brake gently down ( not just all of a sudden )
>at same time I come to a stop, put car in neutral
>take foot off clutch
>foot on brake


How does that sound ?

mickdw

Going down through the gears is the natural and correct way to do it. Bad drivers destroy clutches, good ones don't.

b318isp

mickdw wrote: »

Going down through the gears is the natural and correct way to do it. Bad drivers destroy clutches, good ones don't.

Says who? So you go 4th-3rd-2nd-1st every time you come to a halt? Why would you want to do this when you have brakes to slow the car and can drop the clutch just before you stop?

The OP's post one up seems correct.

El Kabong!

Brake pads are a consumable, use your brake pads to slow the car down, not the gears.

Brake until you are at the appropriate speed, and then put it into the correct gear.

Don't coast, as you will not be in gear if you need to respond quickly to something.

Nonoperational

mickdw wrote: »

Going down through the gears is the natural and correct way to do it. Bad drivers destroy clutches, good ones don't.

Nonsense. You select the gear for the speed your doing. Going down through all the gears is not necessary.

b318isp

Muas Tenek wrote: »

I am not a mechanic - but was taught by my father who was - that coasting causes great damage as the road wheel speed does not match the half shaft / differential speed when re-engaging which may lead to gear sheer.
I hope a few mechanics on here can verify this.
Downgearing while gentle braking was how I was taught - saves clutch, gear and brake wear.

Because there is no disconnection between the output shaft of the gearbox and the wheels there is no problem there. It's not an issue for the diff.

I'd expect that your father was thinking about the gearbox and engine speeds not matching when coasting. If in neutral, the input and output shafts will be at different relative speeds, if in gear with clutch in then the engine and all the gearbox will be at different relative speeds. The greater the relative difference the greater the possibility of accelerated wear.

obi604

gpf101 wrote: »

Nonsense. You select th gear for the speed your doing. Going down through all the gears is not necessary. What kind of comment is that...

ive heard some people advise in the past alright about this down shifting through the gears thing i.e 4 - 3 - 2 -1

> firstly it seems an awful pain in the hole to be doing this every time you need to come to a stop
> secondly, ive tried it and it seems like it puts more toil on the clutch. clutch down 3rd, clutch down 2nd, clutch down 1st.
> thirdly, if you drive this way, you will be nearly making TWICE as many gear changes as you normally would - which is not good for the clutch
> finally, whats the advantage of doing the 4-3-2-1 stuff ?

keithclancy

El Kabong! wrote: »

Brake pads are a consumable, use your brake pads to slow the car down, not the gears.

Brake until you are at the appropriate speed, and then put it into the correct gear.

Don't coast, as you will not be in gear if you need to respond quickly to something.

Anywhere with steep hills and you'll boil the brakes and warp the discs.

Cedrus

keithclancy wrote: »

Anywhere with steep hills and you'll boil the brakes and warp the discs.

Only if you're coasting out of gear or in the wrong gear.

In an automatic you're going to have the brakes on all the way down but you'll be in the right gear.

Cedrus

Going down through the gears consecutively is an ideal, for when you can see ahead far enough to plan your deceleration. Real driving situations like sudden changes in traffic flow or junctions just after bends etc. will mean that the need to match the gear to your speed obviates the need for consecutive changes.

After an emergency stop you can go from top gear straight to first no problem.

b318isp

keithclancy wrote: »

Anywhere with steep hills and you'll boil the brakes and warp the discs.

Yes you'll overheat brakes (although warping discs is not a certainty), but we're not talking about hills. Technically, you are using engine braking to stop the car accelerating too - so it's not quite slowing down.

b318isp

Cedrus wrote: »

Going down through the gears consecutively is an ideal, for when you can see ahead far enough to plan your deceleration

Why is it an ideal? Police and advance driver training does not instruct this. If you are expecting to stop, you can remain in an appropriately high gear and de-clutch before coming to a stop. If expecting to continue moving, then the correct gear is preselected - and this can mean a 4th to 2nd change.

Cedrus

b318isp wrote: »

...... Police and advance driver training does not instruct this. ...................

I don't have my copy of Roadcraft at hand but iirc that is what it says.

If you are decelerating gradually, the consecutive gears will be the right ones to be in. If you decelerate rapidly, selecting the appropriate gear may mean missing 1 or 2.

But an ideal is only for ideal conditions.

biko

I'm a coaster too. Have been told it's bad practice but it's very hard to stop doing once you started doing it.

afatbollix

I used to coast until I was told that if I kept it in gear it wouldn't cost me any petrol to do them 300 meters.

Where as if you were in netruel the engine needs petrol to cover the 300 meters to keep the engine at 1000 RPM.

I drive a lot in town so Id say it makes a small difference.

mickdw

b318isp wrote: »

mickdw wrote: »

Going down through the gears is the natural and correct way to do it. Bad drivers destroy clutches, good ones don't.

Says who? So you go 4th-3rd-2nd-1st every time you come to a halt? Why would you want to do this when you have brakes to slow the car and can drop the clutch just before you stop?

The OP's post one up seems correct.

No, you cannot and have no need to select 1st. First is only required for take off from standstill. Yes I do go down through the gears at all times. Its 100% natural and you will always be in suitable gear. I see lots of people struggling for gear when they are coasting in 4th to the lights for example andsuddenly need to pick up a suitable gear as the traffic takes off. Should it be 2nd or 3rd? They always seem to struggle.
hen is it acceptible to coast in your opinion. Sure it safe enough doing it rolling up to red light. Do you then start to do it at speed, in traffic if there is a braking situation? Its a terrible and dangerous habit. Clutch wear is not an issue when driving properly. In fact people coasting and often riding the clutch in an attempt to get moving again in wrong gears will be significantly worse for clutch. I'm not saying I use engine braking and spare the brakes, just that everything comes in together.It is possible to drive in this way whether you are flat out on a track - in which case you will be using all the brake pressure and engine braking you can get you hands on or alternatively if you are out for a relaxed Sunday drive - brakes will be hardly used and engine might not go above 2k revs either when accelerating or down changing.

b318isp

mickdw wrote: »

No, you cannot and have no need to select 1st. First is only required for take off from standstill. Yes I do go down through the gears at all times. Its 100% natural and you will always be in suitable gear. I see lots of people struggling for gear when they are coasting in 4th to the lights for example andsuddenly need to pick up a suitable gear as the traffic takes off. Should it be 2nd or 3rd? They always seem to struggle.
hen is it acceptible to coast in your opinion. Sure it safe enough doing it rolling up to red light. Do you then start to do it at speed, in traffic if there is a braking situation? Its a terrible and dangerous habit. Clutch wear is not an issue when driving properly. In fact people coasting and often riding the clutch in an attempt to get moving again in wrong gears will be significantly worse for clutch. I'm not saying I use engine braking and spare the brakes, just that everything comes in together.It is possible to drive in this way whether you are flat out on a track - in which case you will be using all the brake pressure and engine braking you can get you hands on or alternatively if you are out for a relaxed Sunday drive - brakes will be hardly used and engine might not go above 2k revs either when accelerating or down changing.

I'm not quite following you. Of course you are right about not needing first, but that implies you have to coast a little before stopping, outside of this coasting is not necessary. I agree with your comments on clutch wear, you're spot on. I also agree with seeing people searching for a gear - which is bad driving. A part of good driving is predicting what gear is necessary and being in it a the right time, not that everyone gets it right all of the time! A pet hate of mine is people who change gear mid corner because they have the car in 3rd or even 4th as they turn in.

For track driving, you have to be very careful with engine braking. In a RWD car you need to rev match to avoid causing the back wheels to lock up (well technically rotating slower than the car speed). On most cars you will have more braking force than traction (unless you have brake fade) so engine braking is not really a factor. However, car stability can be linked to engine braking - lifting off can pull the front in and/or push out the back in a corner.

There is also a risk that people mix up slight alterations in speed which can be effected by releasing the accelerator (or dropping down a gear) with more significant reduction of speed using the brakes. There is probably a grey area in between, but having the clutch in or being in neutral is not recommend by, say, Roadcraft - the UK police driver's handbook or any IAM course I have taken.

b318isp

Cedrus wrote: »

I don't have my copy of Roadcraft at hand but iirc that is what it says.

If you are decelerating gradually, the consecutive gears will be the right ones to be in. If you decelerate rapidly, selecting the appropriate gear may mean missing 1 or 2.

My Roadcraft book was borrowed but never returned! I agree with your comments here, but your earlier post could be misinterpreted.

Victor Meldrew

afatbollix wrote: »

I used to coast until I was told that if I kept it in gear it wouldn't cost me any petrol to do the 300 meters.

Where as if you were in netruel the engine needs petrol to cover the 300 meters to keep the engine at 1000 RPM.

I drive a lot in town so Id say it makes a small difference.

To add to this.

Going down hill, 4th gear, ~ 50kph instant fuel reading 3.0l/100kms

same hill, 3rd gear, same speed = 0.0l/100kms

neutral = 3.0l/100kms

therefore

engine breaking = zero fuel & correct gear

too high a gear = engine using fuel to prevent a stall..

Neutral is therefore pointless and less safe.

re point 2 on the OP, I will go 4th =>2nd if revs are dropped enough.

Dirkster

obi604 wrote: »

ive heard some people advise in the past alright about this down shifting through the gears thing i.e 4 - 3 - 2 -1

> firstly it seems an awful pain in the hole to be doing this every time you need to come to a stop
> secondly, ive tried it and it seems like it puts more toil on the clutch. clutch down 3rd, clutch down 2nd, clutch down 1st.
> thirdly, if you drive this way, you will be nearly making TWICE as many gear changes as you normally would - which is not good for the clutch
> finally, whats the advantage of doing the 4-3-2-1 stuff ?

if you are engine breaking correctly then there should be virtually no wear on the clutch as both shafts will be turning at speeds very close to each other on re-engaging the clutch between gear shifts down, so very little wear. If on the other hand you coast up to a turn, the engine will drop to it's idle speed of say 1000rpm. No gear except first should be driven at this rpm as its too low and could possibly stall or vibrate the car to pieces!

Say your picking 2nd gear, well you'd need at least 2000rpm in the average car to drive normally around a turn. That means that when you re-engage the clutch, the difference in shaft speed is 1000rpm and its the clutch that has to make up this ground, i.e. wear! Unless of course you blip the throttle to 2000rpm when re-engaging which is fair enough.

Cedrus

b318isp wrote: »

My Roadcraft book was borrowed but never returned! ............

I think that happens to most peoples first copy of Roadcraft, no-one is getting their paws on my second copy.

If the lights are just gone red or I don't know the sequence, leave it in 4th and slow until I need to stop
leave it in gear

if the lights are red but I reckon there's a chance they'll change, I'll go down a gear or two and see if I can continue on


as for going into first, it was drummed into me not to go into 1st until the car has actually stopped as it's for taking off

Rabidlamb

I'm a coaster I'm afraid to admit, sometimes on long downhill sections I even like to give the feet a rest altogether by just using the handbrake.
I'm sure this makes me awesome.

2ndcoming

1st gear is not a driving gear so it should never be selected in a moving car, clutch in or not.

You shouldn't use the engine as a brake, that's what brakes are for, pads are there to be used and replaced.

If it makes you happy by all means do it but there is no question that unnecessary gearchanges will shorten the life of your clutch, gearbox and engine.

obi604

Sorry, for my ignorance but I'm seeing a lot of references like : you should not use your engine as a break

What does this mean exactly ?