Situation from today - thoughts?

CiniO

Just a bit over hour ago we were driving back home (wife+me+daughter).
IMHO very near miss. Red VW got all scratched on left side by the barrier.
Unfortunately smartcam doesn't provide enough picture quality (especially during the rain) to read numberplates of beetle, but I think I know where this car is normally parked.

Beetle never stopped.
Golf and me stopped. We never exchanged any details, as there was no contact between out cars. I have his reg no in case. His left side was significetly scratched as he bumped pretty hard off the barrier.

I actually thanked him for good reaction, as otherwise my car would be destroyed from the back, and considering there was a baby in the car, who knows what else could happened.

I must admit I didn't see him in my mirror until he was just on my left side scratching through the barrier. I didn't look at the mirror during emergency braking, which I actually should have done. I also see now, that even after passing beetle I was still slowing down. Maybe if I floored it then, nothing would happened. But it's easy to discuss that matters during watching the video at home. In reality I was not aware how it exactly went just after it happend. My speed when I first seen beetle on my lane was about 70 - 80km/h. Speed limit 80km/h.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rvHxCXJFK9o

I'd be greatful for any thought about the situation.

Jimbob 83

You caused the Golf to go off the road, any way you look at it.

You were accelerating too hard and made a panic reaction and came to a total stop instead of just slowing down to allow the Beetle to overtake, my view anyway.

drunkmonkey

Guy behind should have been able to stop, he's be wrong if he hit you. I think you did over react a bit though, should have eased off instead of coming to a dead stop and given the beetle time to get in. Your very lucky he didn't upend you.

delly

Hmm, the beetle was obviously way out of order, but anything the golf had of done would have been a result of your braking irrespective of the reason for braking, therefore I don't think the beetle has a case to answer.

Its obviously easy for me to say, but I think you spent too much time on the horn rather that worrying about your own driving space. In a situation where I have to brake suddenly and I know I have it under control, the first thing I'll glance at is the rearview to see who's coming up my arse. I don't think it was necessary to to brake as hard and sit in the middle of the road for so long afterwards. Obviously it would still be the golfs fault, but the aim would be to do all you can to avoid an accident rather than be in the right.

heathersonline

You were within your rights to accelerate to the speed limit. I'd say the golf was too close for appropriate reaction time. Your reaction could have been better but the golf driver is to blame for his own damage. Unfortunate the reg isn't clear on the beetle probably easy to track down though.

Magown3

Why the hell did you nearly come to a standstill? Absolutely no need for it.

But also, if Golf had've hit you, he/she would have been in the wrong.

Rubbish driving on both counts I'm afraid

pred racer

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Guy behind should have been able to stop, he's be wrong if he hit you. I think you did over react a bit though, should have eased off instead of coming to a dead stop and given the beetle time to get in. Your very lucky he didn't upend you.

+1
Although the incident is entirely caused by donkeyboy in the beetle. Maybe sombody here can do a CSI job on your film and get the number?
but fair play to the guy in the golf, most people just brake and never think of avoiding the the other car.

Outkast_IRE

Even if you didnt come to a standstill that golf behind you was too near anyway and would of had to of taken evasive manouvers anyway.

Berty

You over-reacted to the beetle overtaking and you had lots of time to react better. You didn't have to come to a complete stop and I'm sure the golf didn't think you would stop.

Golf was wrong, beetle was wrong and you were wrong. Unfortunately it is the golf driver who gets the damage vehicle.

Bohrio

Have to agree with delly. This things unfortunately happen all the time, there was no need for a complete stop. You were lucky, you said you were carryingg kids in the back, if instead of a golf it was a big truck well... dont want to think about it

The Muppet

Terrible driving by all involved TBH and on a wet road.

dgt

Every possible disadvantage:

• Wet
• No space for the tractor to pull in. He doesn't seem to slow down either
• Stupid place for that beetle to overtake (not long enough)
• Golf was probably trying to keep up, typical :rolleyes:

A similar situation happened to me a few weeks ago without the tailgating driver behind, except it was on the corner. A Carisma in the wet overtaking a car nearly ploughed head on into me. I slowed down significantly but didn't stop and kept well in. The most pointless and idiotic overtake I've seen in a long time. How I lay on the horn...

I do think you did over react a bit too, a case of if that were me I prob would have slowed down and kept well in.

Mr. Presentable

Why were you stopping? Dangerous. You totally overreacted. The guy in the Golf could probably claim on your insurance for his damages.

CiniO

Magown3 wrote: »

Why the hell did you nearly come to a standstill? Absolutely no need for it.

But also, if Golf had've hit you, he/she would have been in the wrong.

Rubbish driving on both counts I'm afraid

I slowed down from about 70 - 80km/h to about 20km/h (I'm guessing) by the time beetle passed. What else could I have done? Keep my speed and move to the grass?
After passing beetle it was about 2 seconds until I was golf on my left side. Even if I wanted to start accelerating then, I needed a bit of time to reduce gear from fifth.

CiniO

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Why were you stopping? Dangerous. You totally overreacted. The guy in the Golf could probably claim on your insurance for his damages.

Why?

CiniO

Beer Baron wrote: »

You over-reacted to the beetle overtaking and you had lots of time to react better.

What would you do if you were me then?

Jimbob 83

CiniO wrote: »

Why?

You did a complete emergency stop from the speed limit to standing still and sat there for afew seconds blowing your horn like a loon, the first thing i always take into account on the road is observation.

Big Nasty

Lads, don't forget those dash cams can make traffic look a lot faster than reality. To be fair Cinio it lookd to me like you did over-react a bit but the dude in the Golf should have been able to stop too. He's lucky he didn't loose control altogether when he hit the verge.

drunkmonkey

CiniO wrote: »

I slowed down from about 70 - 80km/h to about 20km/h (I'm guessing) by the time beetle passed.

You came to a dead stop in that video, no need for it with a car on your ass, did you say you had a child in the back? Seriously throw away that cam that keeps you in the right but will kill you all.

Magown3

If you pause at exactly 15 seconds in when the beetle is right in line with the tractor. You are still traveling at a good speed and there is plenty of room there for a car to fit through. If you had've continued at this speed, the golf never would have come close to you or the grass or the armco. After this point, there was absolutely no need to be still on the brakes.

pred racer

Mr. Presentable wrote: »

Why were you stopping? Dangerous. You totally overreacted. The guy in the Golf could probably claim on your insurance for his damages.

This is horse****, whether we agree with cinio's actions or not he is entitled to stop/decelerate rapidly if there is a need to(which obviously there was) if he can the golf must be able to also!

Nonoperational

Looks like you pretty much stopped. The idiot in the beetle caused the whole thing but personally I wouldn't have stopped. The guy in the golf should have been far enough back to stop in time but you were lucky he avoided you. What a clown in the beetle.

CiniO

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

You did a complete emergency stop from the speed limit to standing still and sat there for afew seconds blowing your horn like a loon, the first thing i always take into account on the road is observation.

I think you need to watch the video once again.
It wasn't full emergency braking. I could have broke a bit harder.
I didn't sat there for few seconds blowing my horn. I had my horn on to warn others there was some danger, and I released horn exactly at the moment beetle passed. It was about 2 seconds from that moment to the moment I was golf on my left side.

Indricotherium

heathersonline wrote: »

You were within your rights to accelerate to the speed limit. I'd say the golf was too close for appropriate reaction time. Your reaction could have been better but the golf driver is to blame for his own damage. Unfortunate the reg isn't clear on the beetle probably easy to track down though.

This is total crap. You are not well within your rights at all to accelerate to the speed limit if to do so is dangerous driving. In this case it clearly was as the op couldn't safely avoid an oncoming vehicle despite having about 5 seconds to react.

Berty

CiniO wrote: »

What would you do if you were me then?

Not come to a complete stop. Concentrate more on your driving rather than leaning on the horn.

Jimbob 83

CiniO wrote: »

I think you need to watch the video once again.
It wasn't full emergency braking. I could have broke a bit harder.
I didn't sat there for few seconds blowing my horn. I had my horn on to warn others there was some danger, and I released horn exactly at the moment beetle passed. It was about 2 seconds from that moment to the moment I was golf on my left side.

You braked beetle and the threat passed then you came to a dead stop complaining/blowing horn and pretty much parked on a busy road.

Being in the right is nice, being alive is better

Magown3

CiniO wrote: »

I think you need to watch the video once again.
It wasn't full emergency braking. I could have broke a bit harder.
I didn't sat there for few seconds blowing my horn. I had my horn on to warn others there was some danger, and I released horn exactly at the moment beetle passed. It was about 2 seconds from that moment to the moment I was golf on my left side.

Yes, and when the beetle had passed, YOU were that danger!

Vanbis

IMO the bettle was in the wrong. The white line in the middle looks continus to me so the Red bettle should not be over taking and also he was approaching a sharp bend in wet conditions where he could not see the on coming cars such as yourself.

The red golf looks like he/she was speeding and probably accelerating harder as they got around the corner. That was dangerous driving considering the wet conditions and the dangerous bend. Not sure you did the right thing coming to a complete stop.

I'd consider yourself and your family more lucky the Golf didn't rear end you because that would've been nasty for all involved.

CiniO

Magown3 wrote: »

If you pause at exactly 15 seconds in when the beetle is right in line with the tractor. You are still traveling at a good speed and there is plenty of room there for a car to fit through. If you had've continued at this speed, the golf never would have come close to you or the grass or the armco. After this point, there was absolutely no need to be still on the brakes.

At 15 seconds it's after I released the horn. My speed was about 20km/h or less at that stage. I agree there was no need to slow down anymore from then. But I had only about 2 seconds from then to the moment golf was passing me through the grass. Before I would have reduced to first or second gear there would be not much time left.

Voodoomelon

Golf driver wasn't paying attention is the only thing to note in this video I feel.

heathersonline

Indricotherium wrote: »

heathersonline wrote: »

You were within your rights to accelerate to the speed limit. I'd say the golf was too close for appropriate reaction time. Your reaction could have been better but the golf driver is to blame for his own damage. Unfortunate the reg isn't clear on the beetle probably easy to track down though.

This is total crap. You are not well within your rights at all to accelerate to the speed limit if to do so is dangerous driving. In this case it clearly was as the op couldn't safely avoid an oncoming vehicle despite having about 5 seconds to react.

The op is certainly within his rights to accelerate to the speed limit. The fact that his reaction was incorrect is a separate matter.

ShadowHearth

To be honest. Anything can happen and any car can come to full stop on any road.
The car that was behind you had to leave more space between you two. That is the reason why you need to keep distance from car in front of you - so you can stop in time if there is emergency. If he would have hit your arse op, he would be in fault.

Overreaction? Yes, but when you get shocked it can be very hard to make best choice.
I really don't understand high horse brigade, who say its OP fault too. Idiot in beetle was overtaking like an idiot, and the idiot behind, was not keeping his distance like an idiot.

Nonoperational

Voodoomelon wrote: »

Golf driver wasn't paying attention is the only thing to note in this video I feel.

Sur the Beetle was by far the biggest culprit surely?

heathersonline wrote: »

The op is certainly within his rights to accelerate to the speed limit. The fact that his reaction was incorrect is a separate matter.

It can still be dangerous driving. You can't go around flooring it from 0-60 if it's not safe to do so.

naughtysmurf

Combination of errors, looks to me like the VW was overtaking on a solid white line & the op shouldn't or need not have come to a complete stop, there was no need for either manouver,

Forget about it, could have been worse, life's too short, everbody's alive

Enjoy the rest of your evening

CiniO

Jimbob 83 wrote: »

You braked beetle and the threat passed then you came to a dead stop complaining/blowing horn and pretty much parked on a busy road.

Being in the right is nice, being alive is better

I didn't come to dead stop. I wasn't blowing my horn then and definitely didn't parked on busy road.

CiniO

Beer Baron wrote: »

Not come to a complete stop. Concentrate more on your driving rather than leaning on the horn.

You think using the horn was unnecesery?

CiniO

Indricotherium wrote: »

This is total crap. You are not well within your rights at all to accelerate to the speed limit if to do so is dangerous driving. In this case it clearly was as the op couldn't safely avoid an oncoming vehicle despite having about 5 seconds to react.

I accelerated and then kept steady speed for about 4 seconds until I observed beetle coming against me out of the bend. Are you saying I should predict there will be someone overtaking behind the bend and should have drove slower?
If so I should have drive slower all the way for 20km as this road is full of bends like that.

Voodoomelon

gpf101 wrote: »

Sur the Beetle was by far the biggest culprit surely?

Yes indeed, I just meant in regards the end result.

drunkmonkey

CiniO what were you thinking? All we have to go on is the cam, it really looks like you knew the cam was there and if something was to happen you would have been found in the right because of the camera. Did the fact you had a camera even enter your head during the whole time, truthfully?

heathersonline

gpf101 wrote: »

It can still be dangerous driving. You can't go around flooring it from 0-60 if it's not safe to do so.

In what way was it not safe to do so in this instance? Driver couldn't have anticipated some dick overtaking on a continuous and on a bend. Would it make a difference to you if he wasn't accelerating and was doing a steady 80kmph?

LLU

Beer Baron wrote: »

Not come to a complete stop. Concentrate more on your driving rather than leaning on the horn.

Same argument applies to the guy in the red golf. There are plenty of good reasons for cars to stop on the road - e.g. about to turn right, some obstacle in front of you, etc - and you can't just expect everyone else on the road to drive at the speed you would like them to 100% of the time.

Nissan doctor

It was the beetle that caused the accident, but I have to be honest, you added to the situation needlessly, the beetle is gone past you and is completely off camera and yet your are still braking.

Like I said, the beetle would have been to blame over all and the golf drivers insurance would have paid out to you if he had hit you.....but I'm a firm believer that regardless of who is legally at fault, the other parties involved could almost always have avoided/reduced the situation.

With regards to the horn, IMO if you have time to press the horn then it wasn't a real emergency and in a situation where you have to emergency brake/slow quickly, 1st automatic response is what's in front of you, second is what's behind you.

c-note

My thoughts,
You were accelerating quite hard coming from the junction,
not breaking any rules, but generally unsafe, esp in wet conditions,

It is obviously difficult from a video to judge speeds and distances with any accuracy, but i would say you were perfectly correct to slow down and stop. At the time it would be very difficult to make a judgement on exactly how much to slow down to avoid a collision. It is always safest to stop.

It is always the responsiblity of the person behind to ensure they can stop without hitting the person in front, in any circumstance. If the red golf had hit you, HE would be liable for ALL damages to your car.
Even if he had managed to stop behind you and a third car had hit the red golf, causing the red golf to hit you; the red golf WOULD STILL be liable for the damage to your car. (as a pile up situation) (i'm assuming your brake lights were working!)

I would have no problem with your reaction
It looks possible that the red golf was not paying attention.

The VW beetle has broken the law by passing on a solid white, and has caused a crash because of this.
I'm glad nobody was hurt!

CiniO

drunkmonkey wrote: »

CiniO what were you thinking? All we have to go on is the cam, it really looks like you knew the cam was there and if something was to happen you would have been found in the right because of the camera. Did the fact you had a camera even enter your head during the whole time, truthfully?

To be honest with you I only recalled I have a camera and whole thing was recoreded few minutes later.

naughtysmurf

CiniO wrote: »

I accelerated and then kept steady speed for about 4 seconds until I observed beetle coming against me out of the bend. Are you saying I should predict there will be someone overtaking behind the bend and should have drove slower?
If so I should have drive slower all the way for 20km as this road is full of bends like that.

After you turn left, your initial acceleration seems to me to be pretty agressive but that might be just me / sound from video

As best you can you should always keep in mind that there may be an a**hole travelling in the opposite direction

drunkmonkey

CiniO wrote: »

To be honest with you I only recalled I have a camera and whole thing was recoreded few minutes later.

That's fair enough, I though it affected your reactions. By the book you done the correct thing. I would advise booking in for some kart racing as soon as possible and if it's raining all the better. You need to get better at passing.
I'd also send the vid to the local council and ask them to remove the grass verge on both sides and put down tarmac.
Guy in the beetle was a complete loon, that car is about 40 years old, the tractor would beat it in a race.

damo86

Looking over the video, if the OP slowed down enough and not stopped to make room for the beetle to clear, the red golf would have have still rammed into him, he still was bombing (at least above 40- 50kph) passed him on the verge.

yoda2001

Very aggressive driving by OP. Listen to the acceleration on a wet road and no clear view around the bend. All parties at fault.

Nonoperational

heathersonline wrote: »

In what way was it not safe to do so in this instance? Driver couldn't have anticipated some dick overtaking on a continuous and on a bend. Would it make a difference to you if he wasn't accelerating and was doing a steady 80kmph?

I'm just making the point that you can't make a sweeping statement saying you can always accelerate foot down as long as your not breaking the limit. I'm not saying he was doing anything wrong here.

Don't know what your trying to imply asking if it would make a difference if he was doing a steady 80kph... If he accelerated gently he would have got to 80kph slower and the Beatle would probably have finished the overtaking maneuver.

Pointless exercise anyway for me the beatle was hugely to blame, everything after that is a direct result of the dope overtaking dangerously.

Mycroft H

3 levels of ' fault' here .

1. Beetle. Very poor overtake. We can all agree on this I think.

2. The red golf. Nowhere near enough room to the car in front. 4-5 seconds gap in weather like that. Poor reaction. Dunno why more people here are picking up on this

3. Cinio. Nothing massively wrong. Probably shouldn't have come to a complete stop. Better of accelerating after the tractor.

andyseadog

i might get in trouble for saying this but meh...

cinio fella give it up will ya.

every so often you create an ultra pedantic thread, fully of technicalitys and glitches people really dont care about, your addition to threads is usually in a pedantic manner also.

you were wrong in that situation, not the only wrong person but you were certainly wrong.

i'm sure you put this thread up hoping for a pat on the back and a round of applause for your quick thinking and first ranting application of your dash cam.

time to chalk it up, count your blessings and go for a pint.