Council Tenants Rights

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 11:51am #1

Firstly can I say that I work hard, pay a lot of taxes every month, do not get, nor seek, any handouts from the state or anyone else and I pay my rent on time every month as instructed by the council.

I have being a council tenant for 17 years without any problems whatsoever. I have never caused any trouble and keep to myself. Over the past 5 to 6 years I have being working and each year my salary has increased. So each year there has been an upwardly adjustment on my rent account with the council and the council has advised me each year what weekly rent I was to pay for the coming year. The council advised me of the weekly rent after I supplied them with all income documentation they requested from me. Because of these upwardly rent adjustments added to my account, my account now after 6 years shows several thousand Euro in rent being owed. However, I was under the impression that I was paying the full rent the council required from me because they informed me of the rent I should pay for each coming year.

Now the council are taking legal proceedings against me to evict me and my children from my home because they want a huge lump sum from me that I simply cannot pay. Can anyone please advise me what are my rights in this regard and also, are the council wrong in the way they assess a tenants weekly rent after they have received all the income documentation they requested? I have always paid the rent the council told me so how can I be put in this situation? Please help.

I cannot seem to find out anything about what my rights are being a local authority tenant. I heard something about Article 8 of the European Human Rights or something like that.

Thanking you in advance for any help or advice you may be able to offer me.

minidazzler · 15-05-2012 12:04pm

counciltenant wrote: »

Firstly can I say that I work hard, pay a lot of taxes every month, do not get, nor seek, any handouts from the state or anyone else and I pay my rent on time every month as instructed by the council.

I have being a council tenant for 17 years without any problems whatsoever. I have never caused any trouble and keep to myself. Over the past 5 to 6 years I have being working and each year my salary has increased. So each year there has been an upwardly adjustment on my rent account with the council and the council has advised me each year what weekly rent I was to pay for the coming year. The council advised me of the weekly rent after I supplied them with all income documentation they requested from me. Because of these upwardly rent adjustments added to my account, my account now after 6 years shows several thousand Euro in rent being owed. However, I was under the impression that I was paying the full rent the council required from me because they informed me of the rent I should pay for each coming year.

Now the council are taking legal proceedings against me to evict me and my children from my home because they want a huge lump sum from me that I simply cannot pay. Can anyone please advise me what are my rights in this regard and also, are the council wrong in the way they assess a tenants weekly rent after they have received all the income documentation they requested? I have always paid the rent the council told me so how can I be put in this situation? Please help.

I cannot seem to find out anything about what my rights are being a local authority tenant. I heard something about Article 8 of the European Human Rights or something like that.

Thanking you in advance for any help or advice you may be able to offer me.

Do you have the old rent documentation detailing what they said you were due to pay a month?

Victor · 15-05-2012 12:26pm

Have they explain how a discrepancy has arisen between the rent you paid and the rent they want?

Ask for a statement.

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 12:29pm

minidazzler wrote: »

Do you have the old rent documentation detailing what they said you were due to pay a month?

Yes and I have paid what they instructed me to pay. I am not sure if you know how councils set the rent for each tenant but it is based on your previous years income. So the weekly rent you pay throughout 2012 is based on what your income was for 2011 and your 2011 weekly rent is based on what your income was for 2010 and so on. It is the council to inform their tenants what rent they have to pay for the coming year and I have paid what they instructed me to pay.

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 12:33pm

Victor wrote: »

Have they explain how a discrepancy has arisen between the rent you paid and the rent they want?

Ask for a statement.

It is due to upwardly rent adjustments over the years because my salary has increased over the years. But every year I provided the council with a copy of my P60 for the previous year together with any other income details and based on that information, the council wrote to me and stated what my weekly rent was for the coming year. I believe the procedure the council has put in place to assess tenants rent is flawed but they won't even listen.

tagfan · 15-05-2012 12:57pm

How much were you paying and how much are they now proposing?

nino1 · 15-05-2012 1:48pm

counciltenant wrote: »

It is due to upwardly rent adjustments over the years because my salary has increased over the years. But every year I provided the council with a copy of my P60 for the previous year together with any other income details and based on that information, the council wrote to me and stated what my weekly rent was for the coming year. I believe the procedure the council has put in place to assess tenants rent is flawed but they won't even listen.

Your still not fully explaining where the discrepancy is coming from?

You're saying they told you what your weekly rent was, you paid this rent and now they are looking for a lump sum.

Can you explain the discrepancy?

silja · 15-05-2012 2:08pm

Are they saying you lied about your income or maybe the number of occupants in the house? If so, based on what?

Are they saying they made a mistake assessing your rent but you still owe it? If so, you should be able to make payment arrangements?

When did they first notify you of the discrepancy?

Are they saying because your income went up through the year, you should have informed them in the middle of the year and the rent would have been adjusted upward?

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 2:20pm

nino1 wrote: »

Your still not fully explaining where the discrepancy is coming from?

You're saying they told you what your weekly rent was, you paid this rent and now they are looking for a lump sum.

Can you explain the discrepancy?

I have outlined in an earlier post where the build up of rent came from. It was caused by upwardly rent adjustments from previous years. See my post to minidazzler three posts back and if you read my first post on this I explain there as well. I appreciate your interest and your help. I am trying to find out where I can actually find information on what my rights are because apparently a council tenant has less rights than a private tenant in that a local authority does not have to conform to the type of regulations as a private landlord. I mean, if my house was to be energy efficient rated (BER), it would get the lowest of lowest rating because the house is not energy efficient on any level. The council say they have no legal obligation to replace the windows or doors even though I have shown to them there is a health and safety issue here.

The windows are in the house since it was build almost 30 years ago, the glass in them is the old very thin glass which is not only dangerous, but you cannot use it in modern houses. The front and back doors are warped so they cannot be closed properly, the door bolts/locks won’t lock because the door is warped the locks cannot line up with the piece on the door frame so I cannot bolt my front or back doors close. During the winter, the upstairs bedroom and bathroom windows won’t open because the window frames are so old and full of damp they expand so much you just cannot open them. Also during the winter, there is a build of ice inside each window because they offer absolutely no insulation from the elements or from the street noise. Does anyone know of any other council tenant who has had a similar experience with their local council and if so, what did they do?

ted1 · 15-05-2012 3:24pm

counciltenant wrote: »

I have outlined in an earlier post where the build up of rent came from. It was caused by upwardly rent adjustments from previous years. See my post to minidazzler three posts back and if you read my first post on this I explain there as well. I appreciate your interest and your help. I am trying to find out where I can actually find information on what my rights are because apparently a council tenant has less rights than a private tenant in that a local authority does not have to conform to the type of regulations as a private landlord. I mean, if my house was to be energy efficient rated (BER), it would get the lowest of lowest rating because the house is not energy efficient on any level. The council say they have no legal obligation to replace the windows or doors even though I have shown to them there is a health and safety issue here.

The windows are in the house since it was build almost 30 years ago, the glass in them is the old very thin glass which is not only dangerous, but you cannot use it in modern houses. The front and back doors are warped so they cannot be closed properly, the door bolts/locks won’t lock because the door is warped the locks cannot line up with the piece on the door frame so I cannot bolt my front or back doors close. During the winter, the upstairs bedroom and bathroom windows won’t open because the window frames are so old and full of damp they expand so much you just cannot open them. Also during the winter, there is a build of ice inside each window because they offer absolutely no insulation from the elements or from the street noise. Does anyone know of any other council tenant who has had a similar experience with their local council and if so, what did they do?

if you are working then why not move out and rent in private accomodation.

you don't make it clear how there is a descripancy, yes they up your rent to match your increase in salary in the previou syear. But have you not been paying them the difference?

if you have there where is the balance coming from..

tagfan · 15-05-2012 3:31pm

It sounds like they are ripping you off. I pay 1150 per month for an ok 2 bed apartment. Would you be paying much more than this for a house? You are beholden to no state body in the private market.

Kosseegan · 15-05-2012 3:41pm

counciltenant wrote: »

I cannot seem to find out anything about what my rights are being a local authority tenant. I heard something about Article 8 of the European Human Rights or something like that.

Thanking you in advance for any help or advice you may be able to offer me.

there is a recent decision by the Supreme Court called Donegan v Dublin City Council. That may be of some assistance to you. You should complain to the Ombudsman.

OneIdea · 15-05-2012 3:51pm

Council rent is 10% of the combined households earnings, its not a yearly set rate, if your income goes up, your rent does so according, however in your defense it does take the council a year to process rent assessment forms.

I'm not saying your to blame, but if your earning more it was and is the responsibility of the tenant to notify the council, as I'm sure you would if for example you unfortunately lost your job.

ted1 · 15-05-2012 4:01pm

OneIdea wrote: »

Council rent is 10% of the combined households earnings, its not a yearly set rate, if your income goes up, your rent does so according, however in your defense it does take the council a year to process rent assessment forms.

I'm not saying your to blame, but if your earning more it was and is the responsibility of the tenant to notify the council, as I'm sure you would if for example you unfortunately lost your job.

WOW 10% how do I become a tenant, here's me paying 30%

I know where the next auterisrtiy measure should be aimed..

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 5:18pm

silja wrote: »

Are they saying you lied about your income or maybe the number of occupants in the house? If so, based on what?

Are they saying they made a mistake assessing your rent but you still owe it? If so, you should be able to make payment arrangements?

When did they first notify you of the discrepancy?

Are they saying because your income went up through the year, you should have informed them in the middle of the year and the rent would have been adjusted upward?

No they are not saying I lied about my income and they are not saying they made a mistake. The procedure to assess what rent a council tenant pays the council each week is set down by the council. At the start of each year, the council sends you a rent assessment form for the coming year. On this form, you provide all income details for the previous year NOT the coming year. When you send that back to the council they asses the information and then they write to you and tell you what your new weekly rent is for the coming year. This new weekly rent should, or I am assuming it should, take into account of any rent adjustment, up or down, so that when you pay the new weekly rent for the coming year, at the end of the year, you have paid your rent in full. But it appears the council have wrongly applied the rent adjustments for the past few years and are now seeking a huge lump sum.

tagfan · 15-05-2012 5:28pm

Tell them to get stuffed and move out. Why would you want to stay in council accommodation if you have a job?

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 5:32pm

ted1 wrote: »

if you are working then why not move out and rent in private accomodation.

you don't make it clear how there is a descripancy, yes they up your rent to match your increase in salary in the previou syear. But have you not been paying them the difference?

if you have there where is the balance coming from..

I am working and I work hard and long hours and pay all my taxes as a PAYE worker. I pay all the rip off stealth taxes everyone else does.

I have explained a number of times where the difference is coming from but it appears to me that the logic behind the councils thinking of assessing the coming years rent based on the previous years income assumes that over the years there will be upward adjustments and downward adjustments in the weekly rent so it will even itself out. But in my case, for the past few years there has only being upward adjustment, so because the council have not divided the increase from the previous year by 52 and applied this amount on top of the current rent, this has caused a build up in rent owed. They have also never requested the upward adjustment in a lump sum because they, or at least they are supposed to, spread the upward adjustment amount over the course of the coming year and you pay that amount on top of your new weekly rent, which is what I was doing for years.

Just to make it clear, I am not looking to avoid paying my rent and I am not looking for sympathy. I am simply looking to ask if anyone knows of where I can find out information on what my rights are being a local authority tenant. I have searched on the internet and I cannot find anything.

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 5:36pm

Kosseegan wrote: »

there is a recent decision by the Supreme Court called Donegan v Dublin City Council. That may be of some assistance to you. You should complain to the Ombudsman.

Hi Kosseegan

Many thanks for your assistance. I came across that case today so I am looking more into that article 8. I have also contacted the Ombudsman today and they have asked me to write to them as this is something they said they would like to look at. They didn't promise anything but at least they will look at it.

Again, thank you for your advice, which I very much appreciate.

Jesus Shaves · 15-05-2012 5:42pm

ted1 wrote: »

WOW 10% how do I become a tenant, here's me paying 30%

I know where the next auterisrtiy measure should be aimed..

wow, another muppet like response

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 5:49pm

OneIdea wrote: »

Council rent is 10% of the combined households earnings, its not a yearly set rate, if your income goes up, your rent does so according, however in your defense it does take the council a year to process rent assessment forms.

I'm not saying your to blame, but if your earning more it was and is the responsibility of the tenant to notify the council, as I'm sure you would if for example you unfortunately lost your job.

Thanks for your post. But to correct you, council rent is not 10% of the combined household income, it is 11% of the principle earner’s income. The council reviews your rent on an annual basis which is why they send you a rent assessment form at the start of each year. Yes if you lost your job you can contact the council and inform them your income has immediately lowered. Your current rent would be reduced I am sure but the upward adjustment portion for the previous year wouldn’t be reduced as this portion is owed from the previous year.

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 5:54pm

ted1 wrote: »

if you are working then why not move out and rent in private accomodation.

you don't make it clear how there is a descripancy, yes they up your rent to match your increase in salary in the previou syear. But have you not been paying them the difference?

if you have there where is the balance coming from..

Ted1, please read my previous posts because I have outlined as clear and as easy as I can how the council rent assessment works. This is the council’s procedure and one which they inform you is the one to follow. Yes I have being paying the council the difference every year but if you read my previous posts you will see that the council’s procedure causes a build up of rent owing if there are no downward rent adjustments. This is the point I have highlighted to the council and one which they will not comment on.

tagfan · 15-05-2012 5:59pm

Is that 11% of your net or gross income?

counciltenant · 15-05-2012 6:09pm

tagfan wrote: »

Is that 11% of your net or gross income?

Net.

tagfan · 15-05-2012 6:20pm

€200 per month? €300 per month?

You are taking the piss. I'm paying 1150 a month for a 2 Bed Apartment whilst you are working away like the rest of us essentially getting a free house. Join the real world for a change.

ted1 · 15-05-2012 6:51pm

darokane wrote: »

wow, another muppet

What point are you trying to make?

Jesus Shaves · 15-05-2012 6:56pm

tagfan wrote: »

€200 per month? €300 per month?

You are taking the piss. I'm paying 1150 a month for a 2 Bed Apartment whilst you are working away like the rest of us essentially getting a free house. Join the real world for a change.

The OP has been in the house obviously since they were unemployed and then got work since, why would they move out of their home?
More fool you for paying extortionate amounts of rent:D

ted1 · 15-05-2012 7:07pm

So darokane, where do you propose the ordinary decent workers live? do you think the state could afford to subsidize us all?

tagfan · 15-05-2012 7:30pm

darokane wrote: »

The OP has been in the house obviously since they were unemployed and then got work since, why would they move out of their home?
More fool you for paying extortionate amounts of rent:D

What am I meant to do? I have a job in Dublin and have to rent there. More fool me for not being a leech you mean?

Jesus Shaves · 15-05-2012 7:45pm

ted1 wrote: »

So darokane, where do you propose the ordinary decent workers live? do you think the state could afford to subsidize us all?

you should have bought your own house during the boom

tagfan · 15-05-2012 7:47pm

darokane wrote: »

you should have bought your own house during the boom

haha yeah rent is dead money. I'm saving away 900 quid a month as it is because I'm a smart guy and know how to budget properly. I'll have my own place someday and I won't have anybody else to thank. I'm sick to death of paying for other peoples houses.

ted1 · 15-05-2012 8:11pm

darokane wrote: »

you should have bought your own house during the boom

No way would I? I'm just about to close on one. I read the market and decided to rent till now.

Jesus Shaves · 15-05-2012 8:26pm

ted1 wrote: »

No way would I? I'm just about to close on one. I read the market and decided to rent till now.

good move so;)

OneIdea · 15-05-2012 9:23pm

Just to confirm, I'm a South Dublin Council Tenant for the last 23+years, my life has changed many times over those years, if my income goes up, I ring the council, (but I know the answer, its 10% of my combined household income), at the moment I'm unemployed (last 3 years), I have 2 sons over 18, one over 21, pre budget of 201x he claims €188 and my second son claims €100. I'm not proud of my situation and trust me I am looking for work or something to better our lives.( I really hate it where we live, but life goes on ) I have my partner and one child. I claim 342euro, that's 188euro + 129 for my spouse, and 29euro for my child. My rent which I am very grateful for is 63.50per week ( -1euro for each child, under 18 )to live in a house, that we look after, that includes, windows and doors, common sense), however we pay 70 a week and if we need it we can skip a week if we are stuck. That's the truth.

OneIdea · 15-05-2012 9:45pm

tagfan wrote: »

haha yeah rent is dead money.

Hmm the Council currently offer 40% off the market value if you have lived in the same rented accommodation for over 10 years, it used to be 30%.

OneIdea · 15-05-2012 10:14pm

counciltenant wrote: »

Thanks for your post. But to correct you, council rent is not 10% of the combined household income, it is 11% of the principle earner’s income.

Wrong

The council reviews your rent on an annual basis which is why they send you a rent assessment form at the start of each year.

Correct but you took advantage of that and said nothing about your +income, and you know quite well that it takes the council a year+ to process rent assent forms.

Yes if you lost your job you can contact the council and inform them your income has immediately lowered. Your current rent would be reduced I am sure but the upward adjustment portion for the previous year wouldn’t be reduced as this portion is owed from the previous year.

Now your contradicting yourself, listen get over it, you wont be evicted, just admit that you failed to notify the council of increased earnings and your willing to make amends and pay an extra agreed amount weekly. Problem shared is a problem solved. Honestly you sound like an honest bloke/ so don't make matters worse then they are... you will be fine if you get over the fact that maybe you were in the wrong.

counciltenant · 16-05-2012 1:17pm

OneIdea wrote: »

Wrong
Correct but you took advantage of that and said nothing about your +income, and you know quite well that it takes the council a year+ to process rent assent forms. Now your contradicting yourself, listen get over it, you wont be evicted, just admit that you failed to notify the council of increased earnings and your willing to make amends and pay an extra agreed amount weekly. Problem shared is a problem solved. Honestly you sound like an honest bloke/ so don't make matters worse then they are... you will be fine if you get over the fact that maybe you were in the wrong.

Firstly, the council do charge 11% of the primary earners income. Just so you do not have to take my word on this matter, go directly to the council's web site and see for yourself http://www.fingalcoco.ie/Housing/Forms/Differential%20Rent%20Scheme%202011.pdf. Perhaps the council you rent from charges lower percentage rates but I pay 11% on my income to the council to live in a house that needs totally refurbishment but the council refuse to carry out this work because my tenancy dates before January 2001 I think it is. CRAZY! If my tenancy dated after this date, the council would have a legal obligation to put proper windows and doors in my house instead of the old rotten wooden framed windows that completely freeze shut during the winter. Am I being discriminated against? Of course I am.

Secondly, you need to read all of my posts and you will see that I haven't taken advantage of anything. You will also see that I did inform the council of my increased earnings by supplying the council with a copy of my P60. Judging by what you said about me not informing the council about my increase in income, you obviously do not know what a P60 is so please before you start making the type of comments you have made in your recent post, please read all the facts. I have conformed full to the rules and procedures as set out by the council I rent from.

I have read your post about your own situation and whereas I do symphonise with you and I genuinely hope things improve for you and your family, but there is no need for you to get on your high horse and make wrongful statements and comments about someone else. Your type of comments stinks of begrudgery and jealousy and I think it is you who needs to “get over” yourself and your situation and start doing something about it and stop trying to put other people down. I was once in your shoes but instead of feeling sorry for myself and begrudging other people’s achievements and what they have, I got up off my backside and done something about it. I work seven days a week and have done so for the past 5 years and any increase in my salary is well and truly deserved and earned. So please, sort your own life out before you make stupid annoying comments that are completely wrong.

For your information, I am not a bloke but that is just another assumption you have made. I am an honest person and a single mother. I pay a lot of taxes every month and I do not claim anything from the government. I could be very smart and say that if it wasn’t for PAYE workers like me, paying huge taxes every month, the government wouldn’t be able to pay you your social welfare payments but as I said, I was once in your shoes and I never look down on any person regardless of what they have or do not have but when someone makes the type of comments that you have, it really gets my back up.

Sorry if I have offended you or any one else but please think before you type.

counciltenant · 16-05-2012 1:23pm

OneIdea wrote: »

Hmm the Council currently offer 40% off the market value if you have lived in the same rented accommodation for over 10 years, it used to be 30%.

Fingal county council offer 3% per year off the market value of your home for every year you lived in it up to a max of 15 years (45%). The maximum of 15 years was only introduced recently and before this it was a max of 10 years. I think this 15 years max is due to end this year, not sure though.

Victor · 16-05-2012 2:56pm

darokane wrote: »

wow, another muppet

Play nice.

Morte · 16-05-2012 9:02pm

I'm still not sure where the deficit is coming from after reading the thread and the link. Am I right in saying the below is how it works? You pay 11% of your current income in rent. At the beginning of the year you send in your P60 for the previous year and they'll give you an estimate of what you should pay each week. At the end of the year you send in your P60 and they calculate the balance that was owing for the year and give you the new estimated weekly amount for next year.

I don't see how you can be owing thousands from the balancing amount unless you get a pay rise of €40 grand or so. I'm assuming you could pay the balance anyway if you did.

Was there no balancing figure being calculated each year? That could maybe cause it. You need to find out where they're getting the figure from.

nothing · 16-05-2012 9:36pm

counciltenant wrote: »

For your information, I am not a bloke but that is just another assumption you have made. I am an honest person and a single mother. I pay a lot of taxes every month and I do not claim anything from the government. I could be very smart and say that if it wasn’t for PAYE workers like me, paying huge taxes every month, the government wouldn’t be able to pay you your social welfare payments but as I said, I was once in your shoes and I never look down on any person regardless of what they have or do not have but when someone makes the type of comments that you have, it really gets my back up.

So, essentially you're a year behind on payments for a few years now, and you think you don't have to pay it? Why not supply the council with your income details at the beginning of the year? This would mean you would be on the correct rate for any given year - you could do this by providing a contract from your employer or perhaps a payslip from the first month after the income increases.

I can understand why you are frustrated that the council did not give you what you deem to be the correct rate, but they were basing their calculations on information provided by you, so it's not their mistake. They adjusted their figures. You knew you had to pay 11%, they were clearly not charging you 11% of whatever your income was for a given year, something which you could have calculated yourself, and put by the extra for when it was adjusted, or informed them.

As to your comment on not taking handouts - you get a vastly reduced rent rate, supplemented by taxes, you're a single parent so I assume you get child benefit for your child, paid from taxes, before you were employed I assume you were on some form of benefit, paid from taxes, so maybe you should think about how much help those taxes are to you before you berate other people.

Pkiernan · 17-05-2012 2:59am

counciltenant wrote: »

... I pay a lot of taxes every month and I do not claim anything from the government. I could be very smart and say that if it wasn’t for PAYE workers like me, paying huge taxes every month....

Get over yourself will you? We all pay a shyte load of taxes - not just you.

Not all of us get dirt cheap housing though.

ted1 · 17-05-2012 7:27am

Pkiernan wrote: »

Get over yourself will you? We all pay a shyte load of taxes - not just you.

Not all of us get dirt cheap housing though.

+1 i'm sure you get more out of the taxes than you pay in.

Ray Palmer · 17-05-2012 10:43am

OP
I think you misunderstood the system but I may be wrong. It depends on the council. The p60 isn't to judge just what you pay the next year but what you should have paid that year. The onus is on you to inform them when your wages increase so you don't owe arrears.
The issue is more down to how you were informed or if the information was available to you. I find it hard to believe they suddenly told you that there was a massive amount outstanding.
Either way you will not be evicted arrange to meet them and schedule a payment plan. You will still be paying less rent than in the private market.
As for the faults with the property they are effectively your responsibility as the idea is you eventually buy the house. It has benefits being a council tenant you need to decide if they are worth it.
Your post have not been clear on how they think you owe them money which suggests you don't know.

counciltenant · 18-05-2012 4:58pm

Morte wrote: »

I'm still not sure where the deficit is coming from after reading the thread and the link. Am I right in saying the below is how it works? You pay 11% of your current income in rent. At the beginning of the year you send in your P60 for the previous year and they'll give you an estimate of what you should pay each week. At the end of the year you send in your P60 and they calculate the balance that was owing for the year and give you the new estimated weekly amount for next year.

I don't see how you can be owing thousands from the balancing amount unless you get a pay rise of €40 grand or so. I'm assuming you could pay the balance anyway if you did.

Was there no balancing figure being calculated each year? That could maybe cause it. You need to find out where they're getting the figure from.

I do not have a fixed salary and it goes up and down every month. Some months it is low, other months it is higher. I have asked the council if there is an adjustment upwards from the previous year, is this adjustment spread over the next 52 weeks? They haven’t answered me on this and I have asked them at least a half dozen times. It is my view that they do not spread the amount evenly over the coming 52 weeks and spread it over a much longer period of time, which means that despite a tenant paying the correct amount as advised by their council in writing, arrears still build up and unless you have some years were there is adjustments downwards, a build up of arrears accumulates until the council decides it is too high so they want a huge lump sum to bring it back down.

The bottom line is I pay the rent the council inform me in writing each year to pay. How many times do I have to say that I do not make the rules. I fully follow the council’s procedures but there appears to be a huge amount of people on here who just are unable to see that or who haven’t read all my posts. So for you people who think that I have not followed the councils rules, or that I have not declared all my income to the council, or that I somehow screwed the council or system, or that I have claimed social welfare for years in the past, you are completely wrong and you would know that if you took the time to read all my posts before you made your comments. I worked all my adult life from the age of 16 years and paid taxes for every hour I earned and only stopped work for 5 years when my children were young.

As I said in my previous posts, I am not looking for sympathy or handouts. I simply came on here looking to ask people if they could help me find out where I can find information about what a council tenants rights are but it is clear that there are a lot of begrudges who frequent this site and all I can say is that you really do need to take a good look at yourselves. For those of you who made helpful, mature comments and who didn’t use my thread to get something off their chest and have a go at someone who is getting on with their life and doing something with it and not feeling sorry for themselves, I thank you very, very much.

For the rest of you, if you are not happy with what you have achieved or not achieved in your life then do what I did. Work hard, stop your moaning and begrudging those who are achieving something you envy. No wonder you hear it a lot that the Irish are such a begrudging race but I can genuinely say that most of us are not but unfortunately, you always get the odd few who just can’t admire and be pleased when something achieves something off their own back.

counciltenant · 18-05-2012 5:23pm

Ray Palmer wrote: »

OP
I think you misunderstood the system but I may be wrong. It depends on the council. The p60 isn't to judge just what you pay the next year but what you should have paid that year. The onus is on you to inform them when your wages increase so you don't owe arrears.
The issue is more down to how you were informed or if the information was available to you. I find it hard to believe they suddenly told you that there was a massive amount outstanding.
Either way you will not be evicted arrange to meet them and schedule a payment plan. You will still be paying less rent than in the private market.
As for the faults with the property they are effectively your responsibility as the idea is you eventually buy the house. It has benefits being a council tenant you need to decide if they are worth it.
Your post have not been clear on how they think you owe them money which suggests you don't know.

Ray thanks for your comments. The P60 is to independently confirm to the council what your previous years income was so they base the current years rent on that. If there was any adjustment this is incorporated in the coming years weekly rent and they inform you what you are to pay. This is exactly what I done. As I said in pervious posts, my income is not fixed and fluctuates each month.

I find it even harder that you to believe that there is so much rent owing because I genuinely thought that I was paying my rent in full every month because I was paying what the council told me to pay.

I am 50 – 50 if the council will be granted an eviction order but I cannot see how a judge would grant such an order considering I have never once caused any trouble to anyone and considering that I have being paying the rent every month as advised by the council. I know myself that the council have somehow made a mistake or their adjustment method is at fault in a way I have previously mentioned in several posts.

I am the type of person who keeps themselves to themselves and have instilled a high level of respect, morals and values into my children, who I might add are very quite and respectful children, unlike most of the children where I live. I am polite and respectful of others and because of this, I went through years of intimidation from large groups of teenagers where I live but despite reporting this to the guards and the council, nothing was ever done. I am a though woman and a fighter which is why I have overcome all the crap I went though and I wish the people who are trying to have a go at me would just stop using this threat to do that.

As for the faults with the house, there are certain faults that I have no problem accepting as my responsibility. However, having rotten window frames that freeze solid during the winter to the point you cannot open them, glass that is illegal and unsafe to use in modern houses but somehow is it considered ok to use in my house is just not acceptable. The idea behind council housing is not that a tenant eventually buys the house. That option is available if you have lived in the house for a minimum of one year. Council housing is for those who cannot afford to buy their own house or afford to rent from private landlords. I cannot afford to rent from a private landlord and yet I am paying a very high rental rate to live in the area I live in. I absolutely hate where I live and am trying my best to get out of here and hopefully within the year or two I will but in the meantime, I have to put up with all the anti-social activity that goes hand-in-hand with living on a council estate.

counciltenant · 18-05-2012 5:39pm

nothing wrote: »

So, essentially you're a year behind on payments for a few years now, and you think you don't have to pay it? Why not supply the council with your income details at the beginning of the year? This would mean you would be on the correct rate for any given year - you could do this by providing a contract from your employer or perhaps a payslip from the first month after the income increases.

I can understand why you are frustrated that the council did not give you what you deem to be the correct rate, but they were basing their calculations on information provided by you, so it's not their mistake. They adjusted their figures. You knew you had to pay 11%, they were clearly not charging you 11% of whatever your income was for a given year, something which you could have calculated yourself, and put by the extra for when it was adjusted, or informed them.

As to your comment on not taking handouts - you get a vastly reduced rent rate, supplemented by taxes, you're a single parent so I assume you get child benefit for your child, paid from taxes, before you were employed I assume you were on some form of benefit, paid from taxes, so maybe you should think about how much help those taxes are to you before you berate other people.

Firstly, if you have read my posts you would see that I am not saying I shouldn’t pay the rent that is owed. You would also see that I have given the council full details of my income and followed the councils own procedures in this regard. My monthly salary is not fixed so I never know from month to month what my end of month income will be.

Regarding me getting a “vastly reduced rent rate” I most certainly don’t. If you were to rent a house from a private landlord in the area I live in, you would pay what I am paying to the council except you would have more rights if you rent from a private landlord. I have rented before from private landlords and didn’t like being at the mercy of them knowing that they give you a months notice to vacate the property. My rent is not supplemented by taxes because I pay way above the normal council rent rate but I cannot afford to rent a house in a private area from a private landlord. Yes I get child benefit like every other parent in this country including those parents who are millionaires. One day when you are a parent, you will also be entitled to it but will you refuse it?? I very much doubt it! In my whole life, I was unemployed for five years but worked and paid taxes for over 20 years so I think for those five years I was unemployed (raring my children) I was entitled to claim social welfare. So perhaps now you should think about all the taxes I have paid for over 20 years and claimed for just 5 years. Are you trying to say that I sponged off the system and other tax payers? Because I haven’t as my tax records show.

counciltenant · 18-05-2012 5:46pm

Pkiernan wrote: »

Get over yourself will you? We all pay a shyte load of taxes - not just you.

Not all of us get dirt cheap housing though.

Read my other posts before you make such an ill informed comment. I have already acknowledged that we all pay a lot of taxes and I did not and am not singling myself out.

Dirt cheap housing. You assume a lot with that comment so let me correct you. I pay a lot of rent for the house and area I live in and as I said in a previous post, I could rent a house in the same area I live in from a private landlord for the same rate I am paying the council. So I am not getting “dirt cheap housing”. You are obviously someone who has preconceived ideas on what people are like who live in council estates.

counciltenant · 18-05-2012 5:50pm

ted1 wrote: »

+1 i'm sure you get more out of the taxes than you pay in.

Well Ted, I don't get anymore than any other working adult and I am sure I pay a lot more taxes than other adults and I am also equally sure I pay a lot less tax than other adults. Because I live on a council estate you automatically think I am some how getting special treatment from the taxman or the government.

counciltenant · 18-05-2012 5:57pm

I am not replying to anymore posts so I would like to thank all those who have made mature and none begrudging comments. I very much appreciate them all.

For all those who are not happy with their achievements in life to date, I hope your life improves and helps you stop being so jealous of other people and just be happy with what you are and what you have done so far in your life. It is okay to envy what other people have but try not let that envy overtake you and force you to begrudge other people achievements.

Janedoe10 · 18-05-2012 6:20pm

Counciltenant hope u get this sorted . Get onto ombudsman and hound them , your local councillor who ever that is . As u said u furnished them with documentation as is requested on their tenancy agreement z. And u no doubt had to change standing orders very year because rent was adjusted in line with changes in your salary . Any forms u can find make sure u make multiple copies cause u are going to be forwarding off to diff places and things can easily get misplaced ..
Surely they have not enforced an eviction order on u because of a mistake /incompetence on their part . If that's the case threshold should be notified..
Don't stop paying your rent either. As this could be turned against u . Don't they give u a statement of rent received ? If yes find all . If not and it's a standing order try and get that ordered from the bank ..
If u like the house area then u should not be bullied out of it ... If u feel that they did not honour their side sep to the rent , repairs etc advise that too ..

Good luck

ted1 · 18-05-2012 6:30pm

counciltenant wrote: »

ted1 wrote: »

+1 i'm sure you get more out of the taxes than you pay in.

Well Ted, I don't get anymore than any other working adult and I am sure I pay a lot more taxes than other adults and I am also equally sure I pay a lot less tax than other adults. Because I live on a council estate you automatically think I am some how getting special treatment from the taxman or the government.

Your government subsidied rent would mean you get more than most adults, especially those who are self sufficient.

Council Tenants Rights

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