Proposed Che Guevara sculpture on the prom

harryd2

Anyone know what the outcome of the City Council discussions on this last night were?

For those who are unaware, there's a proposal to erect a Che Guevara sculpture on the prom.
Some US politician has asked the Taoiseach to reject plans for it.
Galwaynews have a poll on the proposal.

Personally I think it would add some character to the prom, so would be in favour.
Some say it's hypocritical for the US to be pontificating about human rights.

inisboffin

We didn't knock Lynch's Castle
Doesn't Che have roots here too?

Robbo

Before this descends into a quagmire about the merits of Guevara, his Irish ancestry and US foreign policy; I'd be opposed to it as the mock-up circulated to the papers looks absolutely terrible, it's in an oddball location near Seapoint and isn't in keeping with the character of the area.

cfeeneyinterior

They should put it at the kicking wall

NIMAN

His ma was Irish afaik.

biko

I'm going to add a poll to this thread so we can see what boards posters think.

c_man

The Prom has plenty of character as is, down with this and the charity box :pac:

antoobrien

I don't think the prom is a good place for any sculpture, but I'm definitely not in favour of this.

snubbleste

A sculpture of a peeing canine might be more suitable for the location tbh

ciano1

Wasn't he one of the Guevaras from Loughrea?

Rob A. Bank

If we can erect a monument to Christopher Columbus, who had no family connections to Galway, we certainly can erect a monument to the son of Ernesto Guevara Lynch.

And if some want to forget about the shameful history of US corporate neocolonial exploitation of Latin America (United Fruit Company et al) and support for military coups and vile brutal dictatorships (Batista and many others)... too bloody bad !

And if it annoys the likes of Declan Ganley, even better still !!!

RDM_83 again

Well at least Columbus probably visited Galway (he certainly refences events in the city)

I've got no problem at all with a Che statue (that is actually has a bit of character) but it just seems a bit strange putting it in Galway City, I mean he never visited, Limerick or Shannon were the only places in Ireland AFAIK and theres a good argument that his Irish roots were from Clare (or left Galway in 1715!).

surime

This is crazy! Was not there in history enough real heroes and people who deserve a sculpture?
Who is he for most of the people - a teenage T-shirt hero???
He was responsible for a death of many people and he was a communist..

a "trendy rebel star" !

Hannibal

NIMAN wrote: »

His ma was Irish afaik.

Ché was Ernesto Guevara de la Serna.
His father was Ernesto Guevara Lynch
His grandmother was Ana Isabel Lynch
Her father and Ché's great-grandfather was Patrick Lynch who was born in Galway.

Ché's heritige should be a source of pride for Irish people similar to how Admiral William Brown and Bernardo O'Higgins are remember in Dublin with monuments.

Hannibal

surime wrote: »

This is crazy! Was not there in history enough real heroes and people who deserve a sculpture?
Who is he for most of the people - a teenage T-shirt hero???
He was responsible for a death of many people and he was a communist..

What has being a communist got to do with what one achieves in their life? Do you even know what communism is?

Ché was responsible for people deaths, so was nearly every military and political leader the world over. Look at the conditions in Cuba, Angola and Bolivia before Ché arrived in them countries and you will see what he was fighting against.

surime

Dotsey wrote: »

Do you even know what communism is?

Yes I know, I was born in Poland.

Diabhal Beag

I am fully in favour. His contribution to Galway is undeniable. Shur he built Connemara on a hangover-ridden Tuesday.

Hannibal

surime wrote: »

Yes I know, I was born in Poland.

Was Poland a communist country or just some oppressive regime calling itself communist because the state wanted to control all aspects of life?

Communism based on what was laid out in the Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels has never been achieved anywhere in the world.

RDM_83 again

Dotsey wrote: »

Ché was Ernesto Guevara de la Serna.
His father was Ernesto Guevara Lynch
His grandmother was Ana Isabel Lynch
Her father and Ché's great-grandfather was Patrick Lynch who was born in Galway.

Has anybody actually confirmed any of this properly at all? I mean loads of websites give his ancestory as dating from 1715 which would make him much further removed.

surime

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwMpoDcfE_o


-watch 1.30

Hannibal

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Has anybody actually confirmed any of this properly at all? I mean loads of websites give his ancestory as dating from 1715 which would make him much further removed.

it was confirmed in a book I read about him by Jon Lee Anderson, apart from Ché own diaries it's probably the most comprehensive book about Ché's whole life

BeardySi

They should reopen O'Ché's wine bar while they're at it! used to love that place!

Mrs OBumble

I think ye are all forgetting exactly how many Galway jobs are based in American multi-national companies.

Not a hope in hell that this will get built.

civis_liberalis

What is the total cost of this?

inisboffin

Plenty of Yanks fond enough of Ché and his beliefs.
Generally not with the same politics as heads of multi-nationals, in fairness

civis_liberalis

Diabhal Beag wrote: »

Shur he built Connemara on a hangover-ridden Tuesday.

That would actually explain quite a lot.

paky

Dotsey wrote: »

What has being a communist got to do with what one achieves in their life? Do you even know what communism is?

Ché was responsible for people deaths, so was nearly every military and political leader the world over. Look at the conditions in Cuba, Angola and Bolivia before Ché arrived in them countries and you will see what he was fighting against.

agreed. bastita was involved in the deaths of at least 20,000 cubans during his reign. you could call the cuban revolution a legitimate response to this.
however, cuba was responsible for backing rebels in the congo and che guevarra himself assissted them. these were the very rebls which were responsible for the death of irish peace keepers so its not all clear cut

leeroybrown

I'm not really taking an opinion the political side of it but I think the proposed design is awful and not in keeping with the area at all. In my opinion those kind of multi-layered pieces only work well indoors where the lighting and direction of arrival of the viewer are controlled.

I am however enjoying the pissing match it's kicked off between the various factions.

xflyer

It's a ridiculous idea, don't we have enough gunmen of our own to commemorate? Whatever you say about our ruthless gunmen and killers at least they were trying to establish a free and democratic country unlike Cuba which no matter way you look at it is a repressive Communist regime run by a Dictator.

Why don't we just put up a statue of Fidel Castro or Osama Bin Laden while we're at it?

There are certain people in this country who would love to see Ireland become like Cuba. Not a nice idea.

Pure Sound

JustMary wrote: »

I think ye are all forgetting exactly how many Galway jobs are based in American multi-national companies.

Not a hope in hell that this will get built.

This has to be one of the worst arguments I have heard against it. By that logic American multinational companies would find it hard to set up anywhere. American companies will be here whilst it is still profitable for them to do so, they will not put an insignificant statue (to them) in the way of financial gain. If they were to be that fical they would not be as large and successful as they are. If you were to argue that the structure was a bad design or that it was the wrong place I would understand.

Che Guevara has links with Galway and I believe that people like him that have such an influence on worldwide politics as Che should be commemorated. I'm unsure of the design and the location though.

Pure Sound

xflyer wrote: »

.
Why don't we just put up a statue of Fidel Castro or Osama Bin Laden while we're at it?

I didnt know Osama Bin Laden and Fidel Castro were descendents of one of the the Galway tribes

leeroybrown

We Need Community wrote: »

This has to be one of the worst arguments I have heard against it. By that logic American multinational companies would find it hard to set up anywhere. American companies will be here whilst it is still profitable for them to do so, they will not put an insignificant statue (to them) in the way of financial gain. If they were to be that fical they would not be as large and successful as they are. If you were to argue that the structure was a bad design or that it was the wrong place I would understand.

As someone neutral on the whole statue issue I'm in complete agreement with this. There's a small set of noisy US politicians who'll make an issue of it and get nowhere but the US multinationals won't care. It's just an argument advanced but those who don't want it erected.

paky

a statue like this could have a profund impact on the youth. you could see galway turn into a soviet republic in the future

Rob A. Bank

RDM_83 again wrote: »

Has anybody actually confirmed any of this properly at all? I mean loads of websites give his ancestory as dating from 1715 which would make him much further removed.

This might shed some light on the dates of the Lynch ancestor’s emigration from Ireland. There is an interview with Juan Martin Guevara (a brother of Che) on YouTube where he discusses his family's Irish ancestry.

Rough translation below…

“I think that this particular great-grandfather that became Argentine came from Ireland. If it wasn’t him then for sure it was his father, but I believe it was this great-grandfather because my grandfather was born in 1850, so that would mean this man came here in 1800, 1800 and something, so he had to be the one that was Irish, my great-grandfather.

My father was the one who mostly tried to convey this to us, that we were of Irish descent, I mean this in the sense of differentiating ourselves from the English. He also tried to convey to us a particular thing; an idea of liberation, that the Irish wanted to liberate themselves from the English. He was the one that brought to us this history.”

Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn75sriNhMk

galah

said it somewhere else before - why does it have to be the old clichéed T-shirt 'face' thing as a statue? If they absolutely *have* to have Che up at the prom, could they not do something a touch more original? The 'design' as it is now is just plain awful (I never liked the t-shirt prints either though...).

But surely we have other people or events to commemorate before some random South American with rather sketchy connections to Galway, and not even Galway City at that? Let them put up a statue of Che in Claregalway if they must, and leave the prom for something a little more relevant...

CrowdedHouse

paky wrote: »

a statue like this could have a profund impact on the youth. you could see galway turn into a soviet republic in the future

You're saying that like it's a bad thing..............!

Predalien

Did all the multinationals stay away when Cuba nightclub was on the go?

ted2767

Predalien wrote: »

Did all the multinationals stay away when Cuba nightclub was on the go?

Frankly I think this is one of the most ridicolous ideas that I've ever heard.
Forget about politicians and muti nationals they may say they don't agree but nothing will come of that.
How about the US tourists that support so much employment in Galway a significant portion of these may not be too impressed by Galway city council wasting money to commerate such a person.
It'd ba a lot worse pi**ing them off that some idiot like Ganley

paky

CrowdedHouse wrote: »

You're saying that like it's a bad thing..............!

given the crimes communism has committed against humanity i would think its for the best

Hannibal

paky wrote: »

given the crimes communism has committed against humanity i would think its for the best

and capitalism hasn't committed any crimes in the name of $$$ no?

fishy fishy

ted2767 wrote: »

Frankly I think this is one of the most ridicolous ideas that I've ever heard.
Forget about politicians and muti nationals they may say they don't agree but nothing will come of that.
How about the US tourists that support so much employment in Galway a significant portion of these may not be too impressed by Galway city council wasting money to commerate such a person.
It'd ba a lot worse pi**ing them off that some idiot like Ganley

you mean the ones who buys one glass of guinness with seven straws??

biko

I don't think the general public in US is any more pro or anti Che than the general Irish public.
It's US Republican Ileana Ros-Lehtinen that seems most vocal. Ros-Lehtinen was born in Havana, Cuba and her dad is a now US based activist opposed to Cuban president Fidel Castro.

Hannibal

biko wrote: »

I don't think the general public in US is any more pro or anti Che than the general Irish public.
It's US Republican Ileana Ros-Lehtinen that seems most vocal. Ros-Lehtinen was born in Havana, Cuba and her dad is a now US based activist opposed to Cuban president Fidel Castro.

Fidel Castro no longer holds any positions in Cuba as he retired in 2008.

US government policy in Cuba is influenced by the money they recieve from big businessmen in Miami, it's a sort of back hander to buy favours from the government.

Former US president Jimmy Carter is a regular visitor to Cuba and has dispelled most of the anti-Castro and anti-Cuban propoganda put out by the US government.

ted2767

fishy fishy wrote: »

ted2767 wrote: »

Frankly I think this is one of the most ridicolous ideas that I've ever heard.
Forget about politicians and muti nationals they may say they don't agree but nothing will come of that.
How about the US tourists that support so much employment in Galway a significant portion of these may not be too impressed by Galway city council wasting money to commerate such a person.
It'd ba a lot worse pi**ing them off that some idiot like Ganley

you mean the ones who buys one glass of guinness with seven straws??

The same ones who stay in hotels eat out and generally support jobs.

Yeah they're the ones I'm talking about

fishy fishy

ted2767 wrote: »

The same ones who stay in hotels eat out and generally support jobs.

Yeah they're the ones I'm talking about

you are more worried about a few americans who probably have no idea who che guevara is, than tourists from the rest of the world who would probably be more than happy to see this monument.

Americans should have nothing to do with what is put up in Salthill. This is Ireland, not America.

I think a labour councillor is behind this - however the labour party seems to be as far removed from socialism as you can get. Thats the only thing I disagree with.

Rob A. Bank

ted2767 wrote: »

How about the US tourists that support so much employment in Galway a significant portion of these may not be too impressed by Galway city council wasting money to commerate such a person.

It'd ba a lot worse pi**ing them off that some idiot like Ganley

Nonsense !

There are plenty of controversial monuments all over the world.

But most sensible Irish people don't see the statue of that genocidal maniac Oliver Cromwell, in prime position outside the Westminster Parliament, as a factor in their decision to visit the UK or not.

Likewise I doubt if many Germans are put off going to London because of the presence of a statue of that war criminal Bomber Harris.

If anything the Che monument would be a tourist draw… remember the old advertising axiom “Any publicity is good publicity”

ted2767

Rob A. Bank wrote: »

ted2767 wrote: »

How about the US tourists that support so much employment in Galway a significant portion of these may not be too impressed by Galway city council wasting money to commerate such a person.

It'd ba a lot worse pi**ing them off that some idiot like Ganley

Nonsense !

There are plenty of controversial monuments all over the world.

But most sensible Irish people don't see the statue of that genocidal maniac Oliver Cromwell, in prime position outside the Westminster Parliament, as a factor in their decision to visit the UK or not.

Likewise I doubt if many Germans are put off going to London because of the presence of a statue of that war criminal Bomber Harris.

If anything the Che monument would be a tourist draw… remember the old advertising axiom “Any publicity is good publicity”

A statue Che as a tourist draw?
Grow up just because there may be questionable monuments elsewhere this is no excuse to have one in Ireland.
And the two examples you mentioned in the UK are of home grown charachters i.e. both British and to very many Brite represent heroic figures unpalatable and all as that is to an Irish person.
Surely there is some locals who could be honoured with a statue if they really want to put one up.
There are far better ways for the council to spend our money than on somebody with tenious links to the area.

leeroybrown

ted2767 wrote: »

There are far better ways for the council to spend our money than on somebody with tenious links to the area.

It's not the council's money. It's all being put up by the Argentinean and Cuban embassies to Ireland.

Lockstep

We have a statue to Columbus (the guy who enslaved and raped the Americas) and a square dedicated to Kennedy (with a wee memorial) so I really don't think Guevara is any worse.

It doesn't cost us anything and we could do with more statues and artwork in Galway.

I've zero problems with this. I mean, Ireland already has numerous statues of an authoritarian American with tenuous Irish ancestry and a highly divisive legacy.

c_man

leeroybrown wrote: »

It's not the council's money. It's all being put up by the Argentinean and Cuban embassies to Ireland.

fishy fishy wrote: »

Americans should have nothing to do with what is put up in Salthill.

Hear, hear! :pac:

Can we put one of Hitler right beside him? Just for the craic. But both will have movable limbs, so you can put them in loads of positions.