Planning permission (again)

Molloys Clondalkin

Hi guys I just got the letter that one of the neighbours isnt happy
can anyone help me out with regards a small technical issue.
The county council states thatthe antenna must not be over 6 metres from the ridge Im 5 metres below that My problem is that the pole is located at the back of the garden beside the shed and not attached to the house.
would I need permission for this? or does it fall under the same rules.

If I have been a bad boy then Ihave no problem taking it down its only an antron 99 on a 15 foot pole.
My next antenna will be a Mfj 1798 mounted at the ridge height :cool: If permission is easly gotten I may even go higher

Thanks guys I know this has been done to death but on my particular problem I cant seem to find an answer.

pixbyjohn

Description of Development:
CLASS 4
(a) The erection of a wireless or
television antenna, other than a satellite
television signal receiving antenna, on the
roof of a house.
(b) The erection on or within the
curtilage of a house, of a dish type
antenna used for the receiving and
transmitting of signals from satellites.

Conditions and Limitations
The height of the antenna above the roof
of the house shall not exceed 6 metres.
1. Not more than one such antenna shall
be erected on, or within the curtilage of a
house.
2. The diameter of any such antenna shall
not exceed 1 metre.
3. No such antenna shall be erected on, or
forward of, the front wall of the house.
4. No such antenna shall be erected on
the front roof slope of the house or higher
than the highest part of the roof of the
house.

My intrepertation is that the antenna comes under section A, I therfore can erect a single antenna on the roof, but not more that 6m (20ft) above the roof. But the erection of a pole in the garden (within curtilage) is not permitted unless it's a dish.

Presently the complete 41ft assembly (pole and antenna) is located between two 22ft trees, so really only the top 21ft fiberglass section is noticeable.
So now I must make the antenna even more obvious by placing it on my roof ... unbeliveable.

I suspect whoever complained in the first place will be even less happy with that solution.

I got the above on here >
http://www.frequencydb.com/forum/index.php?topic=14870.0

Molloys Clondalkin

i asked the same in the legal section and there interpretation is that clause 1 to 4 is part of paragraph a aswell so curtailage comes into effect.

still ridicoulous as you say Ican simply put a dish on the pole and its ok or I can go higher from the roof and its ok
The mind boggles :rolleyes:

Greenman

Sorry for your troubles.

Would you be able to figure out who the unhappy neighbour is and see what could be done?

Lucky I'm not living near that neighbour or I'd be doomed :rolleyes:

Keep us posted on how you're getting on.

What ever happened on live and let live.

Molloys Clondalkin

It can only be from two houses as one side is obscured by a tree I said in an email back to the council that if they had of knocked around I would have been more than happy to adress any concerns they have and show them how everything works.

If the worse case scenario is I have to take it down then Im going full height from the roof with a new mfj 1798 thet will really not impress them!!
Ill keep us updated as its something that never was fully answered before just a lot of asking and no final outcomes.

and the annoying thing is theres 3 more within 200 metres that have been up for years plus more in the general area why me ad why now!!!!

pixbyjohn

What did the letter from the council actually say ? It is very unusual that they would say your neighbour is unhappy with your antenna etc.
Can you tell us what the wording is specifically in that letter.

Molloys Clondalkin

its a standard letter as I have found out

the planning authority has recieved complaints alleging that unauthorised development may have been / is being carried out on the above lands
The alledged unauthorised development consists of the erection of a telecommunications type structure/mast in the rear garden of the property without benifit of planning permission

as this matter has been brought to our attention the planning authority is obliged to carry out an investigation into the allegations made.
Please note offials may at all reasonable times enter on the lands mentioned above for the purposes of carrying out inspections
in the event acsess is required it may be neseccery for you to supply contact details

we will be in further contact with you shortly


I sent them an email and all I got back was a further warning letter will be issued shortly!!!!

PauloMN

How many years has the antenna been there OP? It might be worth investigating if you can keep it where it is based on the fact it's been there for over a certain period of time. Don't quote me on this, but as far as I know there is a time period that, once elapsed, a structure can remain in place even if planning wasn't applied for at the time of construction - regardless of who complains after that period of time.

Molloys Clondalkin

unfortunatly its only there a few months. about a year without a pole and then about two months with it.

watty

Five years.

pixbyjohn

My advice to you is to communicate with them by snail mail as this can delay the process rather than you sending them emails. Also a tactic you can use is write asking them different questions regarding how is planning permission sought, what forms to use, what drawings do you need to furnish. You can delay the process by a very long time with letters going forward and back. I know that in the end you will have to do as they say and remove it or get planning permission but in the meantime you will frustrate your "nice neighbour". Its a mean tactic but will buy you time.

Molloys Clondalkin

That process was already started

Im also goint to apply for permissionfor ten metres over the roof as a kind of test at least then I would see who objects to it. you never know people are so lazy they might not even bother to write in to object!!!

but I wont have to take it down ill just put a dish on the pole as the two antennas would share a groupnd plane it can be classed as one homebrew antenna of a dish type and thus eliminate planning permission :cool:

eth0

What kind of an utter gobsh1te complains about another person's antenna? Some people really need to find something else to worry about

pixbyjohn

eth0 wrote: »

What kind of an utter gobsh1te complains about another person's antenna? Some people really need to find something else to worry about

Fortunately we do live in a democratic country and citizens have a right to object to what they find objectionable. Then due process decides whether they have a legitimate complaint or not.
One has to look at the overall situation.

eth0

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Fortunately we do live in a democratic country and citizens have a right to object to what they find objectionable. Then due process decides whether they have a legitimate complaint or not.
One has to look at the overall situation.

Unfortunately we live in a country where councils and the power that be in general are more than happy to get involved in the personal goings on of what a person does on their own property with their own stuff

In a lot of cases the neighbour doesn't like the 'offender' for some other reason than a bloody antenna, then they get a copy of the council's rule book and start scouting out if there is anything to complain.

Other times you have utter eejits who think that anything that deviates from the normal devalues their property and lowers the tone of the area. These lads havn't copped on to the fact that the Celtic Tiger is dead and that the quality of the photos they upload to Daft.ie have more bearing on the value of their house than some fella's antenna.

The odd time there is a genuine complaint but most of the time it's just gobsh1tes getting territorial or fellas trying to wage a war by proxy on the neighbours they don't like

Molloys Clondalkin

these neighbours Ive neve met them the only interaction is whe there kids are breaking the back fence. once again I have to fix it.
Its the classic jesus thats not staying there scenario. Im waiting for the od its coming across my tv line next!!
by and large I couldnt care less I keep my garden nice and myself to myself whoever these people are there going to be disapointed when I put a dish on it and it doesnt come down.

pixbyjohn

eth0 wrote: »

Un
The odd time there is a genuine complaint but most of the time it's just gobsh1tes getting territorial or fellas trying to wage a war by proxy on the neighbours they don't like

I don't agree with you but that really is irrelevant. I hope it is sorted out to everyone's satisfaction eventually.

martinedwards

dunno about the south, but in the UK, if it's mounted on a trailer you can do what you like as it's obviously temporary.

a trailer needs to BE ABLE to have wheels fitted and be moved.........

watty

I think in UK and Ireland you can forget that if it's there more than a short while. The Mobile phone companies abused it.

However here various wireless related companies discovered easy to supply an extra street light and stick a small wireless something on it than get a mast approved.

Molloys Clondalkin

Ive heard nothing back so far so hopefully the file has gone tothe back of a cabinet somewhere

trackerman

I had the exact same issue, 28Mhz whip mounted on a 20ft pole attached to the rear wall.

I met up with council and was TOLD to remove antenna and pole, no other option.
I was also told that anybody from any part of Ireland could have made the complaint, it does not have to be a neighbour or anyone nearby.
So once a planning breach has been pointed out to the council, they must act.

Long story short, I moved the antenna to the house instead (not above 6m from the highest ridge), no more complaints and the council have gone quite.

I'm fairly sure it's the rear neighbour who was the cause, no other neighbour could really see it on the back wall, but now all my neighbours get to see it:D

So sadly thats the only "compliant" option you have.

PauloMN

People complaining about a whip on a pole, or a VHF/UHF beam are being pedantic imo. I can understand how someone might take issue with a lattice tower covered in aerials in the middle of a housing estate - that's fair enough. But a simple vertical and/or a small yagi on a pole? Over the top to complain about that.

Molloys Clondalkin

Ive heard nothing back so by I reckon my big antenna will be up long before I hear a peep out of them!!

Molloys Clondalkin

now weve had a little update
I had a phone call and a lovely lady came out to inspect said antenna, I explaind everything it can do from recieving broadcasts from space to tubirdy on a saturday night (not that its my main form of entertainment ).
It seemed once the satelite dish was shown and she was told it was only down temporary (due to me cutting down some overhanging branches it will be back up shortly). a more mature and positive view was taken. She was very nice but did say shedoesnt make the decision she just reports back. so I should expect a letter soon. will keep everyone updated.

Molloys Clondalkin

ah the final result is in
They have deemed it to be unauthorised so down it must come.
But I will write to them and ask them how they deem it to not comply with the exempt list.

Our man in Havana

Apply for retention planning.

Molloys Clondalkin

I wouldnt give them the money to be honost Ill pop it up on the side of the house at least itwill be higher and more noticeable. My plan was moving a little slow as I watedan Mfj 1798 one huge looking thing Might even pop a light on it to warn helicopters

Capt'n Midnight

If only you lived in America

No one's going to make you take down a fibreglass flagpole flying the stars and stripes
http://www.eham.net/articles/11473

Molloys Clondalkin

I know Id love to have a one hudred foot mast out the back in florida.

Now anyone recommened the best way to mount a dish on top ofa garden shed

watty

Strong K T and heavy pipe on the wall of the shed. I put the bolts all the way through (used cut studding from co-op) with giant washers on inside.

Do not drill holes less than 1/3m from top of a wall! Avoid seams.

Trick of the Tail

Careful about mounting a pole on the back or side of a house.

I had a mast on the gable end of my house, total height was not more than 6m above the top of the roof, but the council in their wisdom cited the word 'on' in the regulations - i.e.

"(a) The erection of a wireless or
television antenna, other than a satellite
television signal receiving antenna, on the
roof of a house."

...and said that a gable end is not "on" the roof, therefore the structure was unauthorised.

Therefore it seems that any gable-end-mounted TV antenna is against planning regulations.

A.

sensormatic

yes a pole mounted on the side of the gable is regarded as an extension of a building if these laws were not there we be having all sorts allover the place thank god for that

Trick of the Tail

No, it's preposterous. Plenty of people quite rightly have tv poles mounted to their gable ends.

A.

martinsvi

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Description of Development:
CLASS 4
(a) The erection of a wireless or
television antenna, other than a satellite
television signal receiving antenna, on the
roof of a house.
(b) The erection on or within the
curtilage of a house, of a dish type
antenna used for the receiving and
transmitting of signals from satellites.

Conditions and Limitations
The height of the antenna above the roof
of the house shall not exceed 6 metres.
1. Not more than one such antenna shall
be erected on, or within the curtilage of a
house.
2. The diameter of any such antenna shall
not exceed 1 metre.
3. No such antenna shall be erected on, or
forward of, the front wall of the house.
4. No such antenna shall be erected on
the front roof slope of the house or higher
than the highest part of the roof of the
house.

pardon for bringing up this thread but I just want to understand properly what the issue is.
to me it appears that the regulations state that you can't put an antenna in front of your house, it doesn't say anything about the back of it. I guess my question is - where does it say that you can't have an antenna at the back garden? Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to prove something, I just want to understand this regulation properly.

...__...

its one assholes interpretation of the law when that ass got her job in the council she decided she had the power to interpret the law whatever way she wanted. chimneys nowadays are not like they used to be i wouldnt feel safe mounting one on my chimney so I was going to do the gable after they refused me permission, I didnt bother and have 4 dipoles tied to the chimney nowot great but does for me for the time being.

tf19

The erection of a wireless or
television antenna, other than a satellite
television signal receiving antenna, on the
roof of a house.

The wording "roof" is very badly worded.

What Ariel / antenna / dish can be connected directly to a tiled / slated roof unless its been specially constructed / adapted with mounting points that are leaded and tiled / slated around ?

A Chimney is not part of the roof structure. A roof is built around and above a chimney. Roofs and Chimneys have separate sections in the building regulations.

A gable end above rafter level is built in place of a hipped roof, and is holding up the roof, so I think it could be successfully argued to be part of the roof structure if it's above rafter level.

Granted a mast bolted the whole way up the gable side of the house, is not really "the roof"

Perhaps the IRTS should issue a guidance / code of practice document in consultation with the Dept. of Environment / Comreg.