Freemasons Forum?

hiram

Hi Folks,

Not sure where to post this, and I'm kind of tired of seeing posts to do with us appearing under conspirancy Theories forum, despite the fact we ACTUALLY exist
Anyway, just wondering if there are:
1. Any Masons like me under the age of 45

2. Any Catholic Masons, like me..yeah I know (shock horror) to those who still think that Catholics cant be Masons.

H

Brer Fox

hiram wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Not sure where to post this, and I'm kind of tired of seeing posts to do with us appearing under conspirancy Theories forum, despite the fact we ACTUALLY exist
Anyway, just wondering if there are:
1. Any Masons like me under the age of 45

2. Any Catholic Masons, like me..yeah I know (shock horror) to those who still think that Catholics cant be Masons.

H

It's funny you should start a post on this, because I recently found some Vatican papers on this very issue. I have not yet had time to read it, but in short, a Catholic cannot be a good Catholic and a Freemason at the same time. I provide here a link to an article which appeared in the Vatican newspaper. I don't have the link to the original notification, but the money quote is as follows:

Precisely by considering all these elements, the Declaration of the Sacred Congregation affirms that membership in Masonic associations «remains forbidden by the Church», and the faithful who enrolls in them «are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion».

With this last statement, the Sacred Congregation points out to the faithful that this membership objectively constitutes a grave sin and by specifying that the members of a Masonic association may not receive Holy Communion, it intends to enlighten the conscience of the faithful about a grave consequence which must derive from their belonging to a Masonic lodge.

The article is here: http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html

F12

Anyone know why it is supposed to be a 'sin'?

hiram

Yeah....








...anyway, back to the real World... There are lots of Catholics who are Masons, and we havent exactly been struck by lightening or turned to stone just yet...so, are there any Catholic Masons here on Boards?? I just wanted to get your take on a particular Side Order, namely Royal Arch.

H

im invisible

i'll have a side order of garlic potatoes, if thats all right

gimmebroadband

Freemasonry, contrary to public perception, is a secret society rather than a fraternity. Its principles are fundamentally contrary to the Catholic faith and explicitly deny key tenets of Christianity.

10 Reasons why Catholics cannot be Masons.

hiram

im invisible wrote: »

i'll have a side order of garlic potatoes, if thats all right

Actually, at our last festive board, which is the meal we have after the Meeting, we had Garlic Potatoes!!

Cold, mind you..

fasttalkerchat

Why did the masons become linked to the Orange order? Was that just a coincidence that there were many mutual members?

Brer Fox

F12 wrote: »

Anyone know why it is supposed to be a 'sin'?

It explains why in the article. I haven't read it myself, but then I'm not a mason and have no desire to be one.

hiram

gimmebroadband wrote: »

10 Reasons why Catholics cannot be Masons.

Wow, what an Interesting Website..:D $8 for the book is a bit steep though. Have you not forgotten that most of our side Orders are Christian Orders?

hiram

gimmebroadband wrote: »

10 Reasons why Catholics cannot be Masons.

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Why did the masons become linked to the Orange order? Was that just a coincidence that there were many mutual members?

Actually, it is the other way round,Freemasonry has absolutley nothing to do with the Orange Order, in fact, we completely disown it. They nicked a few of our garbs and ideas from us and turned it into a sectarian tool. Unfortunate, really. But a complete misconception Im glad to say.

Owen

Can we leave the Orange Order/Conspirary sh1te out for once? There's a forum for that.

TBH, you won't get decent replies on here. There's a FB Group for Irish Masons which you need to request permission to join, and if someone knows you, or knows your secretary, they'll approve the membership.

Brer Fox

hiram wrote: »

Actually, it is the other way round,Freemasonry has absolutley nothing to do with the Orange Order, in fact, we completely disown it. They nicked a few of our garbs and ideas from us and turned it into a sectarian tool. Unfortunate, really. But a complete misconception Im glad to say.

I understand that Joseph Smith, founder of the Mormons, was inspired by the Freemasons, certainly in terms of the rituals at least. He was a member, if I remember correctly.

fasttalkerchat

Owen wrote: »

Can we leave the Orange Order/Conspirary sh1te out for once? There's a forum for that.

Orange order links are not a conspiracy. I only know a handful of masons but all are OO members. Many mason buildings use the same symbols as on Orange Order and Black Preceptory flags and arches such as the ladder.

I had heard that their were some catholic members but never met one before so wanted to know the OP's view.

hiram

Owen wrote: »

Can we leave the Orange Order/Conspirary sh1te out for once? There's a forum for that.

TBH, you won't get decent replies on here. There's a FB Group for Irish Masons which you need to request permission to join, and if someone knows you, or knows your secretary, they'll approve the membership.

Actually, the point is, why not have a Freemasons forum openly on Boards? Looking at the ageing demographics of most of the lodges, dont you think its time to cut the crap and start getting a bit proactive about our Order. A Facebook page onto which you need to be invited?? Who's idea was that? Thats really putting us in a great light, if you excuse the pun.
You say we wont get decent replies on here? Actually, I beg to differ. the fact folks are openly debating the merits of our Craft, which, if you really are a Mason, you know are marvellous, is a good thing in my opinion.

The fact is, if we dont come out from behind the Tylers Door and start showing people that we aint the boogeyman in the closet of Humanity, the better, because in about 25 to 30 years, most of our members will be Dead.
No amount of Dan Brown Books or Films are going to help us then.

hiram

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Orange order links are not a conspiracy. I only know a handful of masons but all are OO members. Many mason buildings use the same symbols as on Orange Order and Black Preceptory flags and arches such as the ladder.

I had heard that their were some catholic members but never met one before so wanted to know the OP's view.

You are incorrect. There are NO links to Orange Order through The Grand Lodge of Ireland, thats a fact-go read our constitution.

Secondly, there are 8 Catholics in our Lodge in Connacht,

Thirdly, show me examples of where symbolism is the same in Masonry and the Orange Order..

gimmebroadband

An extract from a testimony of an Ex-Mason.

During my 19 years as a Mason, I witnessed and participated in numerous disturbing events, but the single most important reason causing me to leave was the fact that Jesus Christ was not the one being worshipped. Many gods in the Scottish Rite are revered and many religions taught, but never is the Blessed Name of Jesus Christ allowed. One is not even allowed to close a prayer in the name of Jesus, but instead must use a vague reference to God, which could mean anyone or anything. Teaching of the Kabbalah, Zend Avesta, and the Gnostics are used along with astrology and the doctrines of ancient false gods such as Osiris, Semiramis, Isis and Krishna. The Hindu gods Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva are also given reference as deities. But whenever Christ was mentioned, it was only in the form of a mockery.

http://www.delusionresistance.org/christian/jim_shaw.html .

HamletOrHecuba

hiram wrote: »

Hi Folks,

Not sure where to post this, and I'm kind of tired of seeing posts to do with us appearing under conspirancy Theories forum, despite the fact we ACTUALLY exist
Anyway, just wondering if there are:
1. Any Masons like me under the age of 45

2. Any Catholic Masons, like me..yeah I know (shock horror) to those who still think that Catholics cant be Masons.

H

There are NO Catholic Freemasons- by joining the Freemasons you are automatically ex-communicated and only the Pope himself can lift such after repentance.

HamletOrHecuba

hiram wrote: »

You are incorrect. There are NO links to Orange Order through The Grand Lodge of Ireland, thats a fact-go read our constitution.

Secondly, there are 8 Catholics in our Lodge in Connacht,

Thirdly, show me examples of where symbolism is the same in Masonry and the Orange Order..

The Orange Order was founded by a Freemason- its bargain basement Freemasonry.

Owen

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Orange order links are not a conspiracy.

Yes, yes they are. Now please stop, it's insulting to members to have someone associate us with the OO. It's the equivilant of calling all priests Paedos.

hiram wrote:

Actually, the point is, why not have a Freemasons forum openly on Boards? Looking at the ageing demographics of most of the lodges, dont you think its time to cut the crap and start getting a bit proactive about our Order. A Facebook page onto which you need to be invited?? Who's idea was that? Thats really putting us in a great light, if you excuse the pun.

TBH an open forum wouldn't work. It's impossible to have any sort of discussion where we have to leave out ritual/workings, not to mention that many Masons prefer to keep their membership private for personal reasons - mainly because of idiots thinking they're associated with the Orange Order/Satan/Devil Worshiping. It's far too easy for anyone on Boards to be linked with their real life persona.

The thinking behind the FB page is exactly the same as the thinking behind being a Mason. To join, you have to ask one. Not be invited, but ask yourself. You should know that

I'll be leaving Masonry this year personally, I've been a member for a very long time and the lack of proactiveness would be one of the reasons incidentally.

Owen

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

There are NO Catholic Freemasons- by joining the Freemasons you are automatically ex-communicated and only the Pope himself can lift such after repentance.

Meh, there's lots actually despite the papal nonsense. And in the states, there's a few thousand.

There's also a substantial number of Christian, not necessarily Catholic Masons, especially Clergy.

Owen

gimmebroadband wrote: »

An extract from a testimony of an Ex-Mason.

What a crock of sh1t. None of that goes on. Props from linking to a conspirary site too. That makes it very legitimate.

HamletOrHecuba

Owen wrote: »

TBH an open forum wouldn't work. It's impossible to have any sort of discussion where we have to leave out ritual/workings, not to mention that many Masons prefer to keep their membership private for personal reasons - mainly because of idiots thinking they're associated with the Orange Order/Satan/Devil Worshiping. It's far too easy for anyone on Boards to be linked with their real life persona.
.

Personally I have much more time for the Orange Order than I do for Freemasons.

And where did such idiots get the idea about it involving devil worship?

“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy.”

‘Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ page 48, Manley P Hall 33rd degree.


"Lucifer, the Light-bearer ! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual or selfish souls? Doubt it not!"
Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff

HamletOrHecuba

Owen wrote: »

Meh, there's lots actually despite the papal nonsense. And in the states, there's a few thousand.

There's also a substantial number of Christian, not necessarily Catholic Masons, especially Clergy.

They may consider themselves Catholic, but the fact is that they are not-they are excommunicated and in perdition, only a Pope has the human authority to lift them from this state. Maybe Christ forgives some on their death beds, but we will never know.

Owen

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Personally I have much more time for the Orange Order than I do for Freemasons.

And where did such idiots get the idea about it involving devil worship?

“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the mystery of his craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onwards and upwards he must prove his ability to properly apply (this) energy.”

‘Lost Keys of Freemasonry’ page 48, Manley P Hall 33rd degree.


"Lucifer, the Light-bearer ! Strange and mysterious name to give to the Spirit of darkness! Lucifer, the Son of the Morning! It is he who bears the Light, and with its splendors intolerable, blinds feeble, sensual or selfish souls? Doubt it not!"
Albert Pike, Morals and Dogma of the ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry, p321, 19th Degree of Grand Pontiff

Ah, Albert Pike. The last bastion of a scounrel - you're aware no doubt that the Albert Pike stuff's been debunked quite a bit, and that generally people with only half a clue think there's any sense to it?

See Hiram - ^^ Sh1t like this is why there isn't an open forum, because the abuse and bigotry above would be impossible to stop.

This is exactly the reason I resigned my Moderatorship on here. It's not acceptable on boards to tar all Priests as Paedos, it's not acceptable to talk poorly about a sports club/charity/organisation, but somehow - which really f*cking eludes me - it's quite alright to call Masons (From previous threads) :

Child Molestors
Illumunati
Devil Worshipers
Coverup groups for Murders
New World Order leaders
Sexist
Racist
Orange Order members
And so on ....

People's arrogance and ignorance never fail to impress me. There's no point in me even discussing this further, as every point Hamlet is making, or will make has already been made on here before, and debunked before, but that won't stop him or others, and I'm not going typing essays again on what's already been done if they were inclined to search - rather than assail.

HamletOrHecuba

http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18840420_humanum-genus_en.html

I strongly recommend Pope Leo XIII's statement on this matter.

The blood curdling oaths and the secrecy tell us something do they not?

Owen

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

The blood curdling oaths and the secrecy tell us something do they not?

No, not really. Do a search on boards please, all your points have been made several times before, and answered before, and you're dragging this thread off topic on your quest. If you have an issue, there's already a Freemasons thread you can contribute to - this isn't it.

fasttalkerchat

Owen wrote: »

Yes, yes they are. Now please stop, it's insulting to members to have someone associate us with the OO. It's the equivilant of calling all priests Paedos.

It's great to hear that you find the idea so abhorrent. I don't know much about freemasons and I look forward to having my preconceptions put right.




The ones you see regularly are the skull and cross bones, the ladder, the cross and crown, the eye, the orange and purple wheel barrow.

Owen

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

It's great to hear that you find the idea so abhorrent. I don't know much about freemasons and I look forward to having my preconceptions put right.

Your question has been asked (ad nauseum) and answered before in the Freemasons discussion thread. Do a search and stop taking this thread off topic.

Keylem

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

They may consider themselves Catholic, but the fact is that they are not-they are excommunicated and in perdition, only a Pope has the human authority to lift them from this state. Maybe Christ forgives some on their death beds, but we will never know.

Exactly!

8 Popes have forbade membership in the lodge.

Catholics who join the Masonic sect are automatically excommunicated. Except at the point of death only the pope or his delegated representative can lift this excommunication in the external forum. Such a "Catholic" Mason deprives himself of the spiritual benefits of the Church, may not receive the sacraments, and cannot be given Christian burial nor be interred in consecrated ground. A Mason who desires to enter the Church must cut all ties with the lodge. A Mason who wishes to marry a Catholic woman must reveal his lodge affiliation in signing the pre-nuptial questionnaire.

more.....

fasttalkerchat

Owen wrote: »

Your question has been asked (ad nauseum) and answered before in the Freemasons discussion thread. Do a search and stop taking this thread off topic.

Which thread?
http://www.boards.ie/search/?q=freemasons
AH and Conspiracies are full of them but I don't think I will find any freemasons their like the OP. He is willing to set the record straight so lets hear what he has to say. We can all learn something new.

HamletOrHecuba

Believing Protestants are not fond of them either.

http://opc.org/GA/masonry.html

http://www.orlutheran.com/masoniclodge.html

There are also statements of Orthodox synods damning Freemasons to eternal hell.

Owen

Those threads in the conspiracy theory forum have many Masons answering questions. If you have questions about the validity of the Order, or what it stands for, that's where you should ask them, and where you'll get answers.

This is a thread about asking if it would be viable to have a Freemasons forum. It's an entirely different question, and you're dragging it off topic along with everyone else.

Owen

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Believing Protestants are not fond of them either.

http://opc.org/GA/masonry.html

Really? A lot of Protestant Clergy would disagree with you as they're members, Bishops included.

HamletOrHecuba

Owen wrote: »

Really? A lot of Protestant Clergy would disagree with you as they're members, Bishops included.

I said Believing Protestants, mate. I realize that most "Liberal Protestants" dont have a problem with Freemasonry, but than again that crowd is pretty far removed from historical Christianity, they dont have a problem with gay or women Bishops either for instance.

Brer Fox

Hold on a minute. This is the Christianity forum, and here we have Freemasons calling for a sub-forum on the Christianity board(???) or else their own forum. But this isn't the feedback forum. Not only that, but Freemasonry itself claims not to be a religion. So... here we are.

HamletOrHecuba

Brer Fox wrote: »

Hold on a minute. This is the Christianity forum, and here we have Freemasons calling for a sub-forum on the Christianity board(???) or else their own forum. But this isn't the feedback forum. Not only that, but Freemasonry itself claims not to be a religion. So... here we are.

Claims being the operative word.

But your main point still stands.

fasttalkerchat

Owen wrote: »

Those threads in the conspiracy theory forum have many Masons answering questions. If you have questions about the validity of the Order, or what it stands for, that's where you should ask them, and where you'll get answers.

This is a thread about asking if it would be viable to have a Freemasons forum. It's an entirely different question, and you're dragging it off topic along with everyone else.

I'll refer you back to the original post. He asked if their were any masons his age and if their were any catholic ones (shock horror, their are some).

He then got a few questions about being a mason from people, like myself who are interested to know more.
You are constantly clogging the thread up. If you have anything positive to contribute or have found anything useful from these other threads then feel free to share some links.


As for making a Freemason Forum, their is a procedure to making a forum: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

Owen

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

I said Believing Protestants, mate. I realize that most "Liberal Protestants" dont have a problem with Freemasonry, but than again that crowd is pretty far removed from historical Christianity, they dont have a problem with gay or women Bishops either for instance.

ROFL, how is a Bishop a 'liberal protestant' by definition? You're digging a hole with your ignorance, and it's hilarious to watch.

Right, as this thread has gone wildly off topic, I'm out. It's one thing to be a nutjob, but it's a different thing to try and debate with a few. If you'd like to continue the discussion, try the appropriate threads, but this isn't one of them. Have the respect for the OP to at least discuss the topic at hand, or are you one of those people with no respect for anything?

HamletOrHecuba

Owen wrote: »

ROFL, how is a Bishop a 'liberal protestant' by definition? You're digging a hole with your ignorance, and it's hilarious to watch.

A "liberal Protestant" by defination does not believe that the Bible is the Divinely inspired Word of God which should be obeyed, in order to be a Freemason you have to go against the Authority of the Bible- hence a Protestant Bishop who is a Freemason is a "Liberal Protestant" by definition.

Owen

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

He then got a few questions about being a mason from people

Off topic questions. And actually, a lot more off topic accusations.

fasttalkerchat wrote:

You are constantly clogging the thread up.

No, quite the opposite. I've tried to bring the thread back on topic. I'm entitled as a member to defend the organisation I'm part of. If I starting talking about your workplace, or golf club, or scout camp as a group of child groomers for Paedos, wouldn't you do the same?

As for making a Freemason Forum, their is a procedure to making a forum: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=461

There certainly is. As I'm around here a lot longer than you, and previously been a moderator, I'm well used to the procedure. This thread is to gauge if there would be significant interest before beginning that procedure, which is the correct and right step to take. At least allow the guy the courtesy of investigating that rather than further taking the thread off topic.

F12

Owen wrote: »

Really? A lot of Protestant Clergy would disagree with you as they're members, Bishops included.

Indeed, and as the present Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England is Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, first cousin of the queen, - he has held that position since 1967, so the Queen, God's chief representative in Great Britain, has no issue with her cousin being a member of the Brotherhood, what's the problem? If God hasn't smitten him with emerods or other such biblical wrath, he must be cool with it all.

HamletOrHecuba

Owen wrote: »

As I'm around here a lot longer than you, and previously been a moderator, I'm well used to the procedure. This thread is to gauge if there would be significant interest before beginning that procedure, which is the correct and right step to take. At least allow the guy the courtesy of investigating that rather than further taking the thread off topic.

Why not gauge it in the Lesbian and Gay section? Why here in the Christian section?

I suspect that this is a troll thread to watch Christians get worked up given that Freemasons are probably the greatest enemy of our God in the world today.

HamletOrHecuba

F12 wrote: »

Anyone know why it is supposed to be a 'sin'?

Worship of a false god is number one...Have you time to go into the rest?

philologos

Freemasonry has nothing to do with Jesus or the Gospel, why is this thread here?

F12

HamletOrHecuba wrote: »

Worship of a false god is number one...Have you time to go into the rest?

Huh...'false' gods? How could any god be false? Are they not all equal if God made them, as nothing exists outside of what God made? What 'false god' do they worship? How can you worship something that doesn't exist? It makes no sense at all.

gimmebroadband

F12 wrote: »

Indeed, and as the present Grand Master of the United Grand Lodge of England is Prince Edward, Duke of Kent, first cousin of the queen, - he has held that position since 1967, so the Queen, God's chief representative in Great Britain, has no issue with her cousin being a member of the Brotherhood, what's the problem? If God hasn't smitten him with emerods or other such biblical wrath, he must be cool with it all.

God is just being patient, and waiting for him to see the light!

F12

philologos wrote: »

Freemasonry has nothing to do with Jesus or the Gospel, why is this thread here?

Because many Fremasons are practicing and decent Christians? Was Jesus not a member of the Brotherhood of Twelve and One?

F12

gimmebroadband wrote: »

God is just being patient, and waiting for him to see the light!

Hard to see the light if you're hiding the light bulb...;) 'Light' is knowledge, and that's the only way to become enlightened and come out of the darkness of lack of knowing. Otherwise, you stay 'in the dark'.

philologos

F12 wrote: »

Because many Fremasons are practicing and decent Christians? Was Jesus not a member of the Brotherhood of Twelve and One?

Christianity has to do with Jesus and striving to follow Him in daily existence. Not a private gentleman's club. I don't see any reason for this thread here.

HamletOrHecuba

philologos wrote: »

Christianity has to do with Jesus and striving to follow Him in daily existence. Not a private gentleman's club. I don't see any reason for this thread here.

What is more Christianity is about salvation through Grace that was merited for us by Christ who in his Personhood is the Second member of the Holy Trinity- the One True God.