Gas Bills averages - Charlesland

d31b0y

Hi, just wondering if anyone is willing to share their average gas bills of late? I have been finding mine to be higher than I would have expected.

I know this is probably more suited to the electrical forums or even the EI Talk to forum but I was just trying to get a like for like from house that I know are the same.

Anyway, so long as it's OK, here is what I come out at.

Average usage per day -
Gas boiler fires for 1 & 1/2 hours in the morning. Heats one rad and the water tank.
Gas boiler fires for 1 hour in the evening. Heats one rad and the water tank.
Gas cooker, not used during the week but on average, maybe 1/2 hour usage a day.
Gas fire, not used at all during the day. Sometimes used for up to 2 hours in the evening. An average of (at most) 1 hour a day.

My new bill ran to €158.42 for the 65 days between 6th March and 9th May. Approx €2.43 a day. The bill was taken from the meter and not an estimate.

I am in a terraced 2 bedroom house in Charlesland.

wardie214

I'm exactly the same and it's crippling. I hardly use it during the day and only an hour in the morning and a few hours in the evening and during the winter my bill was over €230

Jimjay

We use it for the same amount of time as you and get the same bill. We too just can't work it out, we thought the reading must have been estimated wrong but when we read it we actually owed a little bit more.

We are also in 2 bed terrace.

mirekb

Who's your provider? I am with flogas:

Usage: boiler 1hr in morning and 1hr in evening for hot tank and bathroom rad
I only put one rad (sitting room) on if it's freezing cold so maybe average half an hour a week
Half an hour a day for cooking

I don't use the gas fire at all, and have a North facing sitting room so it gets a bit chilly in the evening but am ok with a dressing gown on or blanket over me.

My bill was €76.60 for the period of 5th March til 9th May which is managable. It's a two-bed terrace.

How about electricity? My last was €115 with Electric Ireland.

eleMental

I just got mine, same terraced house, roughly the same useage (though I use the immersion in the morning) and mine was just over €60 for the 2 month time period.

Did you check the thermostat at the top of the stairs? I'm not exactly sure how it all works, but I have mine down below 20 on that and I was told before that that might make a difference?

d31b0y

It's bizarre that it can be so different. I'll try turning the thermostat down below 20 although I think it's set to roughly 20 at the moment (I never actually noticed any difference in temp when changing the thermostat so not sure what it does ).

I won't be putting the fire on for the foreseeable future, so will see what the kind of usage will be after that. Maybe we had been using it more than I averaged.

Actually, I forgot, the OH left on one of the gas rings on the cooker for about 8 hours one day so I imagine that added a few quid to the bill.

pixbyjohn

Using the gas fire usually bumbs up the charges as I believe the fire uses a lot more gas than the boiler, maybe up to 6 times as much.

ryecatcher

I'm with Airtricity and in 2bed as well. My combined gas and elec bill is usually 220 for 2 months. I keep the thermostat at 18C max and never use the gas fire. But I cook a lot, am usually home during the day, so the heat/water goes on all the house (including the attic conversion) for approx 3hrs a day.

IanL

one gas bill was around €170 over winter but got one yesterday for €70 for two months. Find if you hit the one hour button for house rather than leave heat on can work well that way. Gas fire avoid using unless its really cold. Though I'm not home till late two nights a week and my wife works late a lot so possibly a lot to do with it too.

That's with Bord Gais, we do use gas all year round also to heat water as immersion eats your electriciity so has never been even turned on in seven years in house.

Hope that helps but try the hour button and see how long heat maintains before needing to turn it on again.

wardie214

pixbyjohn wrote: »

Using the gas fire usually bumbs up the charges as I believe the fire uses a lot more gas than the boiler, maybe up to 6 times as much.

Wow, I didn't realise that. I don't like using it but sometimes it's needed to heat the front room. Is a blow heater any more efficient?

Thanks John

Sparks115

Holy Crap I really use FAR too much Gas and Electricity!!! I am with Electric Ireland and am in a 3 bed End of terrece. My last Electric bill for 2 months was €199!! and my Gas is due in a few weeks and is €120...so combined €300 every 2 months. I have been told to change my gas to FLOGAS as they are supposed to be cheaper and then my electric to Bord Gas. I am in the house all day with 2 kids and boost my heating 3 times a day for 1 hour and use my tumble dryer once a day to dry off clothes for 15mins. I also use my gas cooker a lot too, but all my lights are energy savers and we switch everything off at night or during the day if we are out.....I know its that damn Tumble dryer...but with 3 kids non stop washing and drying is a must!!:D

postmanpat69

We're in a 2 bed terraced, both gas and electricity are with Airtricity the past couple of years. The Average bill is around the €200 mark every two months, €60-70 on gas and €140-160 on electricity. We’d have the boiler on for an hour morning and evening for hotwater and use the cooker every evening. On the electric side, I use some power hungry PC’s which are on most of time and I’ve a large fish tank that is constantly being heated so these would drive it up a bit. I rang Airtricity about 2 months ago and just asked them what I could do to reduce the bill and they applied a 16% discount for the next 12months….always worth asking!

LifeBeginsAt40

Slightly off topic...as we have no mains gas but...

Electricity with ESB is about €70 a month after 11% online billing / Direct Debit discount.

Night storage heating only, on 3 days a week max, electric power shower, so only heat the water we use. AA rated white goods.

Gas cooking is via bottle, €33 flogas lasts for months and months!
Detached well insulated bungalow, 2 adults, 2 kids. No tumble drier. Energy saving bulbs everywhere!!

Clothes airers outside when ever the sky is dry!
If you're not using it, unplug it! It's the only way to save money

matt-dublin

we had a whopper bill from bord gais this month as well... 180. disgusted because it used to be always around 100-120 in the winter.

I know we've had a cold march and april. but seriously!

think ill have to get onto the missus and housemate about how much they use the heating!

LifeBeginsAt40

think ill have to get onto the missus and housemate about how much they use the heating!

Yep, I've become a boring old fart telling the kids and girlfriend to turn lights off, close doors blah blah.

TV is now off until most evenings now. Reading books is free!

matt-dublin

remember when we were kids and the old fella was giving out about lights being on and doors being open.

we're becoming the old fella

Maudi

postmanpat69 wrote: »

We're in a 2 bed terraced, both gas and electricity are with Airtricity the past couple of years. The Average bill is around the €200 mark every two months, €60-70 on gas and €140-160 on electricity. We’d have the boiler on for an hour morning and evening for hotwater and use the cooker every evening. On the electric side, I use some power hungry PC’s which are on most of time and I’ve a large fish tank that is constantly being heated so these would drive it up a bit. I rang Airtricity about 2 months ago and just asked them what I could do to reduce the bill and they applied a 16% discount for the next 12months….always worth asking!

try bonkers.ie the comparison website.

Jimjay

We have a tap in the hot press upstairs (two bed terrace) with numbers 1-6 I think. It is set to 3.5. What does everyone else have this set to?
We have a thermostat downstairs in the middle hall which is usually set to 18-20 so that shouldn't be a problem. Some on here have said the thermostat upstairs should be on 20 but we don't have one with temp numbers on upstairs.
Cheers

ciaran67

Ive moved into a new flat here in Canada and ive got a gas fire and cooker. Its actually free for the gas, unbelievable eh?

Sorry Derek, wasn't boasting

Charleslando

I just checked out my gas bills online with Bord Gais, all my bills for this year are in and around the €145 mark?? This is double what it was last year, since March the gas is only on for 1.5 hours in the morning and hardly ever outside this, it doesn't make any sense to me that the bill has doubled, surely the price increases aren't that much? Like why would it be more expensive this summer than last winter when the gas would has been used much more??
I called customer service but got no satisfaction? I was just wondering if anyone else in the area has been recieving extremely large gas bills of late?

tp25

Charleslando wrote: »

I just checked out my gas bills online with Bord Gais, all my bills for this year are in and around the €145 mark?? This is double what it was last year, since March the gas is only on for 1.5 hours in the morning and hardly ever outside this, it doesn't make any sense to me that the bill has doubled, surely the price increases aren't that much? Like why would it be more expensive this summer than last winter when the gas would has been used much more??
I called customer service but got no satisfaction? I was just wondering if anyone else in the area has been recieving extremely large gas bills of late?

mine was less than EUR50 for two months. I have switched off the heating for the summer. Hot water - electric heat (immersion), esb bill EUR70 for two months. - I'm working person so i'm home in the evenings mainly.

tp25

Jimjay wrote: »

We have a tap in the hot press upstairs (two bed terrace) with numbers 1-6 I think. It is set to 3.5. What does everyone else have this set to?
We have a thermostat downstairs in the middle hall which is usually set to 18-20 so that shouldn't be a problem. Some on here have said the thermostat upstairs should be on 20 but we don't have one with temp numbers on upstairs.
Cheers

one plumber advised me to set the tap to 6 and then to remove it (unscrew the nut which holds is in place) along with the (sensor) metal pencil shaped wire. I have removed these altogether - so when I turn the heating the full power goes to the cylinder. Our boiler is not moderated so it goes Full 23KWh regardless if its's low or high.

recedite

tp25 wrote: »

I have removed these altogether - so when I turn the heating the full power goes to the cylinder.

Correct, all that (thermostatic valve) does is to restrict the flow into the cylinder coil as the cylinder gets hotter. The only problem you might have now is scalding water in the taps. You can actually control the temp of the water coming out of the boiler though; its the second dial in if its the usual Vokera mynute model, so turn that down low for the summer when you're not heating the rads.
BTW people should be aware that they should turn the room stat on the wall (downstairs usually) down to the minimum in summer. This has the effect of bypassing the rads altogether so they don't heat up at all; it activates the motorised valve attached to the pipework in the hot press. The electric immersion switch should be off all the year round, because electricity is a lot dearer as a fuel than gas. A timed hour of the gas boiler a day will heat the cylinder.

Jimjay

recedite wrote: »

Correct, all that (thermostatic valve) does is to restrict the flow into the cylinder coil as the cylinder gets hotter. The only problem you might have now is scalding water in the taps. You can actually control the temp of the water coming out of the boiler though; its the second dial in if its the usual Vokera mynute model, so turn that down low for the summer when you're not heating the rads.
BTW people should be aware that they should turn the room stat on the wall (downstairs usually) down to the minimum in summer. This has the effect of bypassing the rads altogether so they don't heat up at all; it activates the motorised valve attached to the pipework in the hot press. The electric immersion switch should be off all the year round, because electricity is a lot dearer as a fuel than gas. A timed hour of the gas boiler a day will heat the cylinder.

Sorry guys, what does it actually do? Mine was on 3.5 I turned it down to 2 and can't tell any difference so thought I was saving money. What will turning it to six do?

recedite

Provided the immersion is switched off, it sets the maximum temperature of the cylinder. If you turn it down the water in the taps will never be really scalding. You probably won't save any money though. The way to do that is to have the boiler running for a short time only.

tp25

Jimjay wrote: »

Sorry guys, what does it actually do? Mine was on 3.5 I turned it down to 2 and can't tell any difference so thought I was saving money. What will turning it to six do?

the houses in CL operates system boilers, these heats up our radiators (qty. 6 - 9) in our houses, the Hot Water cylinder is a sort of radiator, considering it has a spiral inside which heat up the hot water between the tank and the spiral.

So, the spiral effectively works as the radiator. Now imagine you keep your rad on 3.5 versus 6, you will have much lower water flow into the spiral, thus much lower energy will release into the water, as you will bypass most of the hot water by setting to 3.5, so hot water will run into the other radiators or (if you have turned your room thermostat to 0) this water will return back to the boiler. Leaving it completely open releases as much heat to heat up hot water as possible. Hot water cylinders in CL are poor, insulation is only about 5mm, where present copper cylinders have 35mm insulation on it. We have 3-4 spirals in our cylinders, where present new cylinders have 6-12 spirals, thus much more heat releases into the hot water.

Our system boilers run non stop on full power, they are old type and not the moderating type boilers so constantly drawing 23Kwh of power, these were only 76% effective when New.

tp25

recedite wrote: »

Correct, all that (thermostatic valve) does is to restrict the flow into the cylinder coil as the cylinder gets hotter. The only problem you might have now is scalding water in the taps. You can actually control the temp of the water coming out of the boiler though; its the second dial in if its the usual Vokera mynute model, so turn that down low for the summer when you're not heating the rads.
BTW people should be aware that they should turn the room stat on the wall (downstairs usually) down to the minimum in summer. This has the effect of bypassing the rads altogether so they don't heat up at all; it activates the motorised valve attached to the pipework in the hot press. The electric immersion switch should be off all the year round, because electricity is a lot dearer as a fuel than gas. A timed hour of the gas boiler a day will heat the cylinder.

I underlined where I have slightly different observations.

The electricity units might be cheaper, this is as far as I agree. But it doesn't necessary mean that the ''machines'' you use to heat your hot water are energy efficient. Let me explain:

Summer situation (no need for a full house of radiators being heated)

A)Vokera or GlowWorm boilers are old type, 23Kwh (76% effective when new) system, non moderating boilers.

B)Hot water cylinders in CL are fitted mainly with 2/3Kwh (sink 2Kwh/bath 3Kwh) immersion heaters, these are inside the hot water cylinders.

Now, consider this exercise:

For how long do you need to turn on your A)Vokera/Glow Worm, to achieve full tank of hot water at 60C?

For how long do you need to turn on your immersion heater at the tank, to achieve full tank of hot water at 60C?

Now, most important question:

What would be the energy use / final cost to heat up 85L-100L cylinder to 60C-65C water temperature?

Important Additional Notes:
A) Vokera/Glow worm takes (burns) always 23Kwh of (Gas units) energy to run
Immersion heater takes (burns) maximum 3Kwh of (Electricity units) energy to run

To me the answers are obvious, in the summer it's much cheaper to run only immersion rather than our old style energy inefficient boilers. If you wish you may post your answers below.

To gain the ''control'' over the electricity used when I press hot water, I installed this booster (30min/1h/2h with electronic 7day a week 24h timer- can be set to heat hot water during off peak hours availing of the nightsaver cheap electricity units):

Location: upstairs between the doors to bathroom and doors to the hot press.

http://www.sangamo.co.uk/shop/Images/Products/Large/PSW.jpg (available eurosales, esb online show website and sangamo.co.uk)

When I press 30min cycle, I have enough hot water to take a shower (second switch (inside the hot press) is sometimes set to sink, sometimes to bath- regardless it's still enough water for one shower).

My electricity bill (two working adults in the house) was about EUR70 for two months. We cook on gas and the gas was about EUR50(maybe less) for two months. No heating used during the summer.

Lighting changed to SMD leds all-around the house to maximize the savings.

recedite

tp25 wrote: »

For how long do you need to turn on your A)Vokera/Glow Worm, to achieve full tank of hot water at 60C?

Lets say you had it timed for an hour, but as the cylinder heated up and the circulation water was returning hot to the boiler, the boiler would cut out at times, especially if you turned down the internal thermostat as I was suggesting earlier. So lets say its actually firing for 45 minutes, or 0.75 of an hour.

tp25 wrote: »

For how long do you need to turn on your immersion heater at the tank, to achieve full tank of hot water at 60C?

Not sure, I don't use one lets say 3 hours.

tp25 wrote: »

Now, most important question:

What would be the energy use / final cost to heat up 85L-100L cylinder to 60C-65C water temperature?

Gas @ 6 cent /KWhr with 79% as the boiler efficiency (X 1.26) , burning 20Kw;
0.06 X 1.26 X 20 X 0.75 = €1.13
Electricity @ 19 cent /KWhr with 100% as the immersion element efficiency, 3Kw;
0.19 X 3 X 3 = €1.71

But there are a lot of variables as well. I'm using 20Kw for the boiler; you had 23Kw. There is a 12KW "Vokera 12e" around and an 18KW "Glow Worm 18si".
Using 12Kw we get;
0.06 X 1.26 X 12 X 0.75 = €0.68

Or, as you have night rate electricity, it makes sense for you to use the immersion;
0.09 X 3 X 3 = €0.81

But you would have to be using washing machine/dishwasher at night too for it to be worth paying the extra standing charge.

Where did you get the SMD LED's and what do you think of them?
I'm interested in following your LEAD

tp25

recedite wrote: »

Lets say you had it timed for an hour, but as the cylinder heated up and the circulation water was returning hot to the boiler, the boiler would cut out at times, especially if you turned down the internal thermostat as I was suggesting earlier. So lets say its actually firing for 45 minutes, or 0.75 of an hour.


Not sure, I don't use one lets say 3 hours.


Gas @ 6 cent /KWhr with 79% as the boiler efficiency (X 1.26) , burning 20Kw;
0.06 X 1.26 X 20 X 0.75 = €1.13
Electricity @ 19 cent /KWhr with 100% as the immersion element efficiency, 3Kw;
0.19 X 3 X 3 = €1.71

But there are a lot of variables as well. I'm using 20Kw for the boiler; you had 23Kw. There is a 12KW "Vokera 12e" around and an 18KW "Glow Worm 18si".
Using 12Kw we get;
0.06 X 1.26 X 12 X 0.75 = €0.68

Or, as you have night rate electricity, it makes sense for you to use the immersion;
0.09 X 3 X 3 = €0.81

But you would have to be using washing machine/dishwasher at night too for it to be worth paying the extra standing charge.

Where did you get the SMD LED's and what do you think of them?
I'm interested in following your LEAD

appreciate calculations, I tried for 4-5 years to save with gas boiler - always as a result I had high bi-monthly bills.

I found that heating hot water with my gas boiler doesn't give me as hot water as heating it with immersion, giving the same amount of time.

Great control over the electricity once I started to use sangamo booster, this booster features auto switch-off after 30m or 1h or 2 h.

LED's:

I got first batch from www.amazon.co.uk, bulb looks like a standard bulb (with matte glass) it has a screw in type thread (E26/E27), I purchased 2 initially in COLD temperature and 7W model. I found that these are too cold color temperature for kitchen so (after 1 broke/ full refund from amazon marketplace) I was left with one- it went to upstairs bathroom and it's perfectly bright, giving correct color temperature for the bathroom environment. So defo COLD type for the bathrooms.

Next I got a batch of 10 bulbs directly from asia, all in WARM color temperature, all 7.5W, smd led made by LG Innotek Co, Ltd. All are E26/E27 thread type (in some asian countries E26 is a standard -so I gave a chance and got these) they fit perfectly as replacement over E27 type bulbs. I purchased number of adaptors Bayonet type to E27 (just to retain same type of lamps) I got these for about EUR1.5 at eurosales in Dublin, amazon.co.uk sells them for EUR2 each, it may charge extra for the delivery.

I got these (20 years warranty)

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=LG+7.5W+led+E26+&_sacat=0&_odkw=LLBSC6B-08D103A&_osacat=0

amazon sells currently on ''offer'' the philips (slightly higher Wattage as 9W):
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Philips-MyVision-929000188701-Watt-Bulb/dp/B005OYW64K/ref=sr_1_2?s=lighting&ie=UTF8&qid=1341935582&sr=1-2

I have night-saver electricireland account with online discount for D/D and online billing.

My washing machine is connected to the timer under the counter and the timer only operates between 00:00HRS AM and 06:00AM, so once the program is set on the washing machine, then it's kicks in at midnight and let the program run until whatever time overnight.

My dishwasher is not as smart as washingmachine and still refuses to turn itself after midnight, so it's the only one that I need to switch on manually.

tp25

recedite wrote: »

Not sure, I don't use one lets say 3 hours.

0.5hour / 30minutes for perfectly hot water in our present h/w cylinders (tested with Sangamo booster) used over past 2 months with great results.

amended electricity usage with 30min of controlled usage of immersion heater in 2 bed house in CL (85L cyliner 3Kwh immersion heater):

Electricity @ 19 cent /KWhr with 100% as the immersion element efficiency, 3Kw (Day Rate);
half an hour cycle:
0.19 X 3 X 0.5 = €0.285

using it for one hour:
0.19 X 3 X 1.0 = €0.57

Electricity ( Nightsaver )
half an hour cycle:
0.09 X 3 X 0.5 = €0.135

using it for one hour:
0.09 X 3 X 1.0 = €0.27

Gas

Gas @ 6 cent /KWhr with 79% as the boiler efficiency (X 1.26) , burning 20Kw;
0.06 X 1.26 X 20 X 0.75 = €1.13


Gas @ 6 cent /KWhr with 79% as the boiler efficiency (X 1.26) , burning 12Kw;
0.06 X 1.26 X 20 X 0.75 = €0.68

recedite

I'm surprised your cylinder heats up in only half an hour. Maybe you are not using much hot water and it's still warm from the previous day. (You can improve the insulation on the cylinder by wrapping blankets around it)

Anyway, your system is obviously working well with those measly bills;

tp25 wrote: »

My electricity bill (two working adults in the house) was about EUR70 for two months. We cook on gas and the gas was about EUR50(maybe less) for two months.

tp25

this is how installed sangamo controller looks like:

Mullie

tp25 wrote: »

My washing machine is connected to the timer under the counter and the timer only operates between 00:00HRS AM and 06:00AM, so once the program is set on the washing machine, then it's kicks in at midnight and let the program run until whatever time overnight.

I'd say the neighbours love that!

tp25

Mullie wrote: »

I'd say the neighbours love that!

I don't see any link, they don't sleep here and I don't hear it, how could they hear it?

They don't pay my bills - I do.

Mullie

We're in a 2 bed beside the end of terrace 3 bed and when their washing machine goes into a spin its like its in our house! Sound proofing not great in Charlesland, but thats another topic!

recedite

tp25 wrote: »

My dishwasher is not as smart as washingmachine and still refuses to turn itself after midnight, so it's the only one that I need to switch on manually.

Just looking at ours; its a "Tricity Bendix" machine from DID just off the N11 at Bray. It has a button for "3 hour delay start". So you could turn it on at 9pm for midnight. Or else have it on a timer, but it would have to have the timeswitch override power on as you press the (delay) start button (the buttons don't work at all if the timer is in the off mode)

Wineman

tp25 wrote: »

this is how installed sangamo controller looks like:

Was thinking of putting something like this in myself, was it difficult to install?

tp25

Wineman wrote: »

Was thinking of putting something like this in myself, was it difficult to install?

yes - if you don't know about electricity and the safety

no - if you know about electricity and the safety

Needed:

- sangamo controller
- small electrical box (on the wall slim type)
- 1.5square grounded electrical cable at 150cm length (actually two pieces of 75cm will do fine)
- electrical terminal block connector (up to 16A type)

Tools:

- flat screwdriver (5mm), small flat screwdriver (3mm)
- sharp knife
- drill with long 8mm-12mm

1) switch off the fuse at the board (I did switch off the main fuse as I do not have trust in this installation), so big Grey fuse on the top left of the board goes way down to switch off.

2) unscrew present switch from the wall (inside hot press), switch with ON/OFF, BATH/SINK on it

3) drill/cut the 3.5-4 cm hole in the wall (place where you want the controller)

4) mark one of the two 75cm cables (using color marker), i.e. WHITE tipex will do, it will help to identify the cables at LOAD and the one between sangamo and the switch

5) run both new cables from the wall into the hot press.

6) follow the wiring instructions

Total time 1hour job.

*** IF YOU ARE NOT FAMILIAR WITH ELECTRICITY HIRE ELECTRICIAN ***

I do not accept any responsibility for any actions taken by any party/parties following above guideline.