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Steyr Upgrade

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13

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    #62
    neilled
    Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭neilled


    KickstartHeart wrote: »
    Hard to know whats going to happen in the next few years so. Do they need to replace the Steyr AUG A1? I'm not exactly a weapons expert but it seams to be a fine rifle. I'm looking from opinions from soldiers and reservists here. Is there anything that would suggest that the Steyr isn't up for the job?

    I don't see the need to replace the system in the immediate future. There's nothing out there in the immediate pipline that gives a quantum jump in performance that would justify replacing the entire weapons system. When you replace a rifle, you have to change racks, spares, retrain an army etc - its not just the unit cost per weapon.

    An incremental upgrade as has been planned is probably most appropriate for the df's needs. Even the "cool" weapons drooled at by those who feverishly read industry publications have been having problems - m4's, m16's, g36's have all reported reliability issues in recent years - there is no perfect system and stoppages don't occur in MW or COD! Also, the F90 upgraded Austeyr (and its a very radical upgrade) manufactured in australia stands a realistic chance of replacing the FAMAS in french service. Their ability to produce a new rifle from scratch is gone, however the aussie arms factory was bought by Thales - a french company and they were showing it at eurosatory this year showing there's life in the platform yet.

    The aug platform is robust, reliable and modular enough (with the proposed upgrades) to soldier on for another few decades as the DF's service rifle imho. Reservists don't need the upgrade - in its present configuration its almost perfect for what they do.


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    #63
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    KickstartHeart wrote: »
    Hard to know whats going to happen in the next few years so. Do they need to replace the Steyr AUG A1? I'm not exactly a weapons expert but it seams to be a fine rifle. I'm looking from opinions from soldiers and reservists here. Is there anything that would suggest that the Steyr isn't up for the job?


    In my opinion, the Steyr is fine. I have had no problems with it other than the obvious stoppages with blank ammo. Lightweight, compact, great in and out of Mowags/Heli's. The sling is **** though, upgrade that!

    One of the DF's considerations now with trying to source a replacement for the Steyr was............wait for it............ceremonial arms drill. What weapon would work and how would the AD have to change. Jesus H Christ like!


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    #64
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    benwavner wrote: »
    He does deal with procurement, along with a Col and a Comdt. He is the SNCO in his office who does the donkey work, meetings, costings, spending forecasts. There are NCO's that work in the office and handle the mundane work.

    Im not saying he makes the decisions or has any say in the matters, but he works in the office and is privy to all the information.

    Im not looking for a "who knows better" argument with you, im just simply stating that:

    "A guy I know, who works in procurement, has knowledge that there is no weapon upgrade in the near future".

    I can also tell you that the Gallil and Colt M16 or variant were considered as a replacement before an upgrade was sought. Apparently a buy 1 get 1 free was offered on the M16.

    Now you are getting confused with the initial procurement I'd say. The Galil and M16 were considered as FN replacements in 1986.


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    #65
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    benwavner wrote: »
    In my opinion, the Steyr is fine. I have had no problems with it other than the obvious stoppages with blank ammo. Lightweight, compact, great in and out of Mowags/Heli's. The sling is **** though, upgrade that!

    One of the DF's considerations now with trying to source a replacement for the Steyr was............wait for it............ceremonial arms drill. What weapon would work and how would the AD have to change. Jesus H Christ like!

    There should be no stoppages with blank ammo if you set the gas properly.
    The sling is one of the better ones in use, and was the only weapon available at the time with a "combat" sling, that allowed the weapon to be fired slung.


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    #66
    KickstartHeart
    Registered Users Posts: 311 ✭✭KickstartHeart


    Would soldiers and reservists be aloud to use a 3 point sling that they purchased on their own accord with their weapon on operations or exercises? You can get some that would easily be attached to the rear sling swivel on the Steyrs that the Defence Forces use.


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    #67
    neilled
    Registered Users Posts: 1,232 ✭✭✭neilled


    goldie fish wrote: »
    There should be no stoppages with blank ammo if you set the gas properly.
    The sling is one of the better ones in use, and was the only weapon available at the time with a "combat" sling, that allowed the weapon to be fired slung.

    Goldie, should and what actually happens are two different things. There are frequent stoppages with blank particularly on the more heavily used weapons that changing gas settings will not solve.


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    #68
    DipStick McSwindler
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,460 ✭✭✭DipStick McSwindler


    This post has been deleted.


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    #69
    Donny5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    goldie fish wrote: »
    There should be no stoppages with blank ammo if you set the gas properly.

    Have you ever fired a blank? Blanks are forever causing stoppages in any gas-operated weapon, because there's no bullet to clear carbon and the gas port aperture gets clogged in no time. There is nothing short of cleaning that you can do to stop it, no magical gas port setting that solves it. This isn't an issue with the AUG - all rifles foul like nobodies business with blanks.


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    #70
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Donny5 wrote: »
    Have you ever fired a blank? Blanks are forever causing stoppages in any gas-operated weapon, because there's no bullet to clear carbon and the gas port aperture gets clogged in no time. There is nothing short of cleaning that you can do to stop it, no magical gas port setting that solves it. This isn't an issue with the AUG - all rifles foul like nobodies business with blanks.


    I have fired thousands of blanks from FN, GPMG and Steyr. Never had a stoppage.
    Clean your weapon properly before and after firing and it won't happen.


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    #71
    Donny5
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,827 ✭✭✭Donny5


    goldie fish wrote: »
    Donny5 wrote: »
    Have you ever fired a blank? Blanks are forever causing stoppages in any gas-operated weapon, because there's no bullet to clear carbon and the gas port aperture gets clogged in no time. There is nothing short of cleaning that you can do to stop it, no magical gas port setting that solves it. This isn't an issue with the AUG - all rifles foul like nobodies business with blanks.


    I have fired thousands of blanks from FN, GPMG and Steyr. Never had a stoppage.
    Clean your weapon properly before and after firing and it won't happen.

    Bull. I'm beginning to think you're the biggest Walt of all, goldie.


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    #72
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Donny5 wrote: »
    Bull. I'm beginning to think you're the biggest Walt of all, goldie.

    I'm thinking the same of you.


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    #73
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    goldie fish wrote: »
    Now you are getting confused with the initial procurement I'd say. The Galil and M16 were considered as FN replacements in 1986.

    I am aware of that, it's quite possible that he ran 2 conversations into one.
    I myself was only 5 in 1986.

    goldie fish wrote: »
    There should be no stoppages with blank ammo if you set the gas properly.
    The sling is one of the better ones in use, and was the only weapon available at the time with a "combat" sling, that allowed the weapon to be fired slung.

    LOL, no stoppages with blank ammo. When is the last time you used it? There have been some exercises that I have been on where (particularly with the GPMG) that it was not worth firing. At least 1 stoppage per belt and at least 5 per magazine. I have heard it mentioned that the quality of the blank ammo bought in the last few years was of a poor grade.

    I hate the sling, I would ideally like to see it changes. Irrespective of how innovative it was in the 70's / 80's.
    KickstartHeart wrote: »
    Would soldiers and reservists be aloud to use a 3 point sling that they purchased on their own accord with their weapon on operations or exercises? You can get some that would easily be attached to the rear sling swivel on the Steyrs that the Defence Forces use.

    First of all, reservists are soldiers. I have used a 3 point sling overseas and on exercises. Some PDF units dont mind you swapping small bits of kit like that as long as it is functional and doesnt particularly stand out. Some units insist on using issued kit only.
    goldie fish wrote: »
    I have fired thousands of blanks from FN, GPMG and Steyr. Never had a stoppage.
    Clean your weapon properly before and after firing and it won't happen.

    Come on Goldie, we all know how to care for a weapon but do you honestly think that we are going to believe that you are immune from stoppages directly relating to blank ammo? Some gas plugs that I have used would also contribute to stoppages, the state of them, but we all get stoppages. You could be a very rare exception though.


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    #74
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    I have to be completely honest here, any stoppage I got with Blanks was from overfilled magazines. Maybe the quality of the current blanks are poorer than what I used,(last fired a blank in 2008) but I even remember firing the Black Plastic blanks without issue from the FN. And they were ****e.


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    #75
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    goldie fish wrote: »
    I have to be completely honest here, any stoppage I got with Blanks was from overfilled magazines. Maybe the quality of the current blanks are poorer than what I used,(last fired a blank in 2008) but I even remember firing the Black Plastic blanks without issue from the FN. And they were ****e.


    Thats a strange one alright.


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    #76
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    In fairness, the FN is a bad-ass weapon which will probably fire ammunition which was made in Olga's basement using melted pewter metal soldiers and propelled by powdered vodka without any stoppages.


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    #77
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    In fairness, the FN is a bad-ass weapon which will probably fire ammunition which was made in Olga's basement using melted pewter metal soldiers and propelled by powdered vodka without any stoppages.


    I miss the FN :(:(

    I used it while in the FCA, some kick out of it. Feckin nearly crapped myself the first time I used it.


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    #78
    Midnight Oil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭Midnight Oil


    i spoke to 2 members of the board today. Still at the RFT stage but this upgrade is definitely going ahead


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    #79
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Midnight Oil wrote: »
    i spoke to 2 members of the board today. Still at the RFT stage but this upgrade is definitely going ahead

    Thats grand so, any indication of timeframe?


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    #80
    Midnight Oil
    Closed Accounts Posts: 114 ✭✭Midnight Oil


    yes :D


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    #81
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Midnight Oil wrote: »
    yes :D


    LOL


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    #82
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    I miss the FN

    Brought mine to the range yesterday.. :P

    NTM


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    #83
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Brought mine to the range yesterday.. :P

    NTM


    You fecker!!!!.........I hate you :P


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    #84
    Teangalad
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Teangalad


    benwavner wrote: »
    I miss the FN :(:(

    I used it while in the FCA, some kick out of it. Feckin nearly crapped myself the first time I used it.

    Same here, savage weapon, never got a chance to fire the steyr, had a go with every other small arm in the DF at the time, any one rmember the old Carl Gustav? and the BAP?? them were the Days..


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    #85
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    Oddly, I took my BAP to the range Sunday as well...


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    #86
    Teangalad
    Registered Users Posts: 111 ✭✭Teangalad


    lucky you...


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    #87
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Manic Moran wrote: »
    Oddly, I took my BAP to the range Sunday as well...

    Manic, you are making me manic now! I love the BAP, Im much better with that than that new thing.


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    #88
    Maoltuile
    Registered Users Posts: 634 ✭✭✭Maoltuile


    benwavner wrote: »
    I miss the FN :(:(

    I used it while in the FCA, some kick out of it. Feckin nearly crapped myself the first time I used it.

    I first fired it as a recruit with the .22 adaptor on sunny evenings in the gallery range in Castlebar Bks. Magic :) I don't like the Steyr. Less robust that the FN. I miss the Bren Gun, but not the ancient .303 ammo it fired.

    Managed to TOET but never fire the Gustaf for years. Finally ended up lashing out magazines of blanks on my Pots :p


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    #89
    Praetorian Saighdiuir
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,968 ✭✭✭✭Praetorian Saighdiuir


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    I first fired it as a recruit with the .22 adaptor on sunny evenings in the gallery range in Castlebar Bks. Magic :) I don't like the Steyr. Less robust that the FN. I miss the Bren Gun, but not the ancient .303 ammo it fired.

    Managed to TOET but never fire the Gustaf for years. Finally ended up lashing out magazines of blanks on my Pots :p

    Ah the Steyr is grand but I really felt like a soldier when I fired the FN, just the power our of it.

    Loved the Bren too, I did a falling plates comp with the Bren on Kilpedder range back in 1998...great craic.


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    #90
    goldie fish
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,195 ✭✭✭goldie fish


    Maoltuile wrote: »
    I first fired it as a recruit with the .22 adaptor on sunny evenings in the gallery range in Castlebar Bks. Magic :) I don't like the Steyr. Less robust that the FN. I miss the Bren Gun, but not the ancient .303 ammo it fired.

    Managed to TOET but never fire the Gustaf for years. Finally ended up lashing out magazines of blanks on my Pots :p


    Me too. Great fun seeing how quickly you can clear a magazine, as brass makes a neat arc through the air, just like in the movies.


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    #91
    Manic Moran
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    benwavner wrote: »
    Ah the Steyr is grand

    You'll never guess what else I brought to the range on Sunday...


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