Pre-built machine; am I stuck with it?

Alactric

Hey lads, new guy here. I was wondering if you could give me some advice on an ancient pre built dell machine I have.

I have the XPS 420. It's got 375 watt power supply, core 2 Q6600 2.4ghz processor and 2 gigs of RAM. It's also got a PCIs 2.0 x16 video card slot with a pre-historic 2600XT 1gb in it, and it's all running on 32bit Vista.

So I'm wondering realistically what my options are as of now. Obviously the most I can do is 4gb or ram (or 3. something, I know it can't use all of it) and the card slot and PSU gives me an even more limited selection. However I did find out that the 420 doesn't use a proprietary power supply so i guess that gives me a lot of room? But considering I've never messed around with a PC's guts this much the thought of screwing with the power supply bugs me. That said I'm happy with the CPU.

I'm having great difficulty finding a 375 watt gpu, I just keep getting the 4670 and 8800? If the upgrade is so incremental is it really worth the hassle of upgrading this piece of junk?

Eboggles

What exactly do you want do do with it? The 7750 would fit in that PSU I'd say if you wanted to lean towards gaming. Otherwise fill out these questions if you want to get a new build.

Tij da feen

You could put a 6870 in there. Shadowhearth ran a 6870 on pretty much the same machine AFAIK. You could then upgrade the RAM. I'm not sure it's really worth investing much into the system but the 6870 and the RAM increase would give a nice boost.

Alactric

I'm aware of the template, I chose not to use it as I don't think it accurately reflects what I'm trying to do. I don't want to rebuild whole portions of the machine. I want to know how easily can I update the the machine to semi-modern standards. If I could meet recommended specs on a newer game and reach 30-45fps by simply swapping out the GPU and RAM I'd be delighted. But as I posted, I have some serious bottlenecks. I'm simply asking what I can realistically do with such severe restrictions.

Alactric

Tij da feen wrote: »

You could put a 6870 in there. Shadowhearth ran a 6870 on pretty much the same machine AFAIK. You could then upgrade the RAM. I'm not sure it's really worth investing much into the system but the 6870 and the RAM increase would give a nice boost.

Is Shadowhearth still on Boards?

uncle_sam_ie

Alactric wrote: »

Is Shadowhearth still on Boards?

He's everywhere :D

Tij da feen

Found ShadowHearth's original post:

q6600 2.4ghz
3gb ram
8800GT
640gb
dells 375 PSU

He stuck a 6870 into that and was able to play BF3 on 1680x1050 on med-high settings I think. Upgrade with RAM from adverts on top of that you should be able to breath some life into the system.

Alactric

Tij da feen wrote: »

Found ShadowHearth's original post:

q6600 2.4ghz
3gb ram
8800GT
640gb
dells 375 PSU

He stuck a 6870 into that and was able to play BF3 on 1680x1050 on med-high settings I think. Upgrade with RAM from adverts on top of that you should be able to breath some life into the system.

Whoah, that sounds amazing. :cool:

ShadowHearth

uncle_sam_ie wrote: »

He's everywhere :D

on topic:

i have same spec dell too, its now hooked to my telly in bedroom. you know for all porn and stuff.

so its xps 420 3gb ram and it had 8800GT in it. i was looking in to what gpu i can fit in there on that 375w and the best solution after a bit of research - 6870. i got club 3D one.
375w is more then enough for that card. dells psu are quite damn good. in fact best things from dell are - Monitors and PSUs.

now i did that upgrade around august last year, so no 7 series out by then.
by the looks of it, now you could fit in 7850, which will be faster and use waaaaaaaaaaay less power too.

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/24.html

so just food for thought: 6870 eats about 169w max load, 7850 is at 101w. so you got a headroom for OCING too.
depending on your budget 6870 and 7850 will be best bet.

Alactric

So you've had no problem running anything in the last year? BF3, Arkham City, Deus Ex, Skyrim? What type of FPS do you get on high?

ShadowHearth

Alactric wrote: »

So you've had no problem running anything in the last year? BF3, Arkham City, Deus Ex, Skyrim? What type of FPS do you get on high?

now BF3 at 1650x1050 with everything high, motion blur off, SSAO AA lowered a bit, but not turned off. i had a constant 40++ fps. i did not tried much on 1080p though, because when i got my new Rig, i havent played much on the old PC.

MW3 maxed out at 1080p, havent seen any difference between my 2500k gtx 570/gtx680

WOW - maxed out with **** loads of fps.

witcher 2 - all maxed out, but no uber sampling. had huge fps at 1650x1050. uber sampling brings to its knees even my new machine.

cant remember other games.

Alactric

ShadowHearth wrote: »

now BF3 at 1650x1050 with everything high, motion blur off, SSAO AA lowered a bit, but not turned off. i had a constant 40++ fps. i did not tried much on 1080p though, because when i got my new Rig, i havent played much on the old PC.

MW3 maxed out at 1080p, havent seen any difference between my 2500k gtx 570/gtx680

WOW - maxed out with **** loads of fps.

witcher 2 - all maxed out, but no uber sampling. had huge fps at 1650x1050. uber sampling brings to its knees even my new machine.

cant remember other games.

Witcher 2 maxed? Wow. Well this is something else, I didn't think I could do anything with this PC. Gotta do some shopping, btw when you say 6870 you mean Radeon and not Sapphire right?

Tij da feen

Alactric wrote: »

Witcher 2 maxed? Wow. Well this is something else, I didn't think I could do anything with this PC. Gotta do some shopping, btw when you say 6870 you mean Radeon and not Sapphire right?

Sapphire is just a vendor. Sapphire is quite a good brand, if you get a good price go with them.

ShadowHearth

Alactric wrote: »

Witcher 2 maxed? Wow. Well this is something else, I didn't think I could do anything with this PC. Gotta do some shopping, btw when you say 6870 you mean Radeon and not Sapphire right?

Yup. Witcher 2 was the reason I went for upgrade. My 8800gt was barely able to run witcher 2 on med settings. Playing game like witcher 2 on anything, but max is a sin and should be looked at like criminal offence.

Look at any 6870 with aftermarket cooling solution.those should be around 150eu. Btw 7850 would be even more performance m8.

SpannerMonkey

I have the exact same PC dell xps 420 I have upgraded mine to 4gb of RAM and stuck in a Sapphire HD6870 Vapor-X graphics card ( its a great card cool and quiet )and updated to windows 7 and it's well able for modern applications I'm able to run battlefield 3 on a mix of high and ultra setting without any problem total cost of upgrading would be quite low maybe 200-250 at the absolute max paying max retail prices , well worth doing if you don't have cash for a new PC , and u coul possible get graphics card second hand etc

ShadowHearth

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

I have the exact same PC dell xps 420 I have upgraded mine to 4gb of RAM and stuck in a Sapphire HD6870 Vapor-X graphics card ( its a great card cool and quiet )and updated to windows 7 and it's well able for modern applications I'm able to run battlefield 3 on a mix of high and ultra setting without any problem total cost of upgrading would be quite low maybe 200-250 at the absolute max paying max retail prices , well worth doing if you don't have cash for a new PC , and u coul possible get graphics card second hand etc

It's quite shocking how good these q6600 4gb ram and 6870 5 year pcs can be. 5 year old pc with updated gpu for 150 transfers old ceappy pc to a modern gaming machine

Alactric

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Yup. Witcher 2 was the reason I went for upgrade. My 8800gt was barely able to run witcher 2 on med settings. Playing game like witcher 2 on anything, but max is a sin and should be looked at like criminal offence.

Look at any 6870 with aftermarket cooling solution.those should be around 150eu. Btw 7850 would be even more performance m8.

Just one last clarification, the 7850 is a part of a whole new series no? I'd be good to for power consumption and space within the case if I went for it?

ShadowHearth

Alactric wrote: »

Just one last clarification, the 7850 is a part of a whole new series no? I'd be good to for power consumption and space within the case if I went for it?

did you even checked the link i gave you? :pac:

here look at this m8:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/23.html

7850 performance is higher then 6870 and it draws way less power then 6870.

6870 is safe bet for around 150eu, 7850 is a good, but it will be around 240eu

Alactric

ShadowHearth wrote: »

did you even checked the link i gave you? :pac:

here look at this m8:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_7850_HD_7870/23.html

7850 performance is higher then 6870 and it draws way less power then 6870.

6870 is safe bet for around 150eu, 7850 is a good, but it will be around 240eu

I meant if a 6870 fits will a 7850?

Skerries

6870 here for €139.90
but if delivery is more than €20 then here will be cheaper as they do free delivery
7850 for around €236 from here, which should have free delivery

Skylinehead

Should do yeah.

Alactric

Would 7850 not be massive overkill though? Seeing as my Ram will maxed at 3gb unless you switch up to Win 7, and I only have Q6600? GPU performance can't be that divorced from everything else can it?

ShadowHearth

Alactric wrote: »

Would 7850 not be massive overkill though? Seeing as my Ram will maxed at 3gb unless you switch up to Win 7?

thats a good point. he wount be able to have 3gb ram. 4gb ram is max. so 2gb ram +2gb gpu.

well 6870 would be the best so. cheap and cheerful, save the rest of the money for next built then.

Alactric

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

I have the exact same PC dell xps 420 I have upgraded mine to 4gb of RAM and stuck in a Sapphire HD6870 Vapor-X graphics card ( its a great card cool and quiet )and updated to windows 7 and it's well able for modern applications I'm able to run battlefield 3 on a mix of high and ultra setting without any problem total cost of upgrading would be quite low maybe 200-250 at the absolute max paying max retail prices , well worth doing if you don't have cash for a new PC , and u coul possible get graphics card second hand etc

I'm not sure if you're still reading this thread, but you said you upgraded you're ram to 4gb. I assume it was ddr 2 800mhz right? Unless there's newer model that uses ddr3 that I don't know about.

ShadowHearth

Alactric wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're still reading this thread, but you said you upgraded you're ram to 4gb. I assume it was ddr 2 800mhz right? Unless there's newer model that uses ddr3 that I don't know about.

dont worry about 667 or 800 ram. you wont feel a damn thing. xps 420 only ddr2 too.

SpannerMonkey

Alactric wrote: »

I'm not sure if you're still reading this thread, but you said you upgraded you're ram to 4gb. I assume it was ddr 2 800mhz right? Unless there's newer model that uses ddr3 that I don't know about.

as shadow hearth said no huge differance and the XPS 420 only supports DDR2 , this is the one i went for
http://www.crucial.com/eu/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=3C984BE5A5CA7304
it did make a huge differance for 50 quid in fairness
4gb is the most you can use so dont bother getting any more
but get matching pairs of ram , thats why i got a fresh 4GB instead of just topping up with an extra 2 GB
.
.
.

Alactric

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

as shadow hearth said no huge differance and the XPS 420 only supports DDR2 , this is the one i went for
http://www.crucial.com/eu/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=3C984BE5A5CA7304
it did make a huge differance for 50 quid in fairness
4gb is the most you can use so dont bother getting any more
but get matching pairs of ram , thats why i got a fresh 4GB instead of just topping up with an extra 2 GB
.
.
.

Yup, I'm ready to go now. Got the 4gb kit and the 6870 on order, all for a cool 170 quid. Thanks Spanner / Shadow and you other lads, you've made a PC gamer outta me again

I think this thread can be locked or something?

ShadowHearth

Nah. Thread can stay. Let us know how will you get on, when stuff arrives and you have a go at it. It is always nice to see how it all ends.

SpannerMonkey

Alactric wrote: »

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

as shadow hearth said no huge differance and the XPS 420 only supports DDR2 , this is the one i went for
http://www.crucial.com/eu/store/mpartspecs.aspx?mtbpoid=3C984BE5A5CA7304
it did make a huge differance for 50 quid in fairness
4gb is the most you can use so dont bother getting any more
but get matching pairs of ram , thats why i got a fresh 4GB instead of just topping up with an extra 2 GB
.
.
.

Yup, I'm ready to go now. Got the 4gb kit and the 6870 on order, all for a cool 170 quid. Thanks Spanner / Shadow and you other lads, you've made a PC gamer outta me again

I think this thread can be locked or something?

Nah leave it open and let us know how u get on , for the 6870 you may need to get an adaptor for the cable to power the GPU as the new card has 2 x 6 pinn power plugs and your old card only has 1 , my one came in the box with the card so u might be ok .

It is a bargain upgrade alright , will transform the pc :-) , if u can get one cheap consider an upgrade to windows 7 as well it runs much better ,

ShadowHearth

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

Nah leave it open and let us know how u get on , for the 6870 you may need to get an adaptor for the cable to power the GPU as the new card has 2 x 6 pinn power plugs and your old card only has 1 , my one came in the box with the card so u might be ok .

It is a bargain upgrade alright , will transform the pc :-) , if u can get one cheap consider an upgrade to windows 7 as well it runs much better ,

Feck! That's right! I remembered about this in bed last night, I wanted to say that!!!

OP, newer 6870 all need 2x6 pin connections. Xps 420 has only 1. You can make 1 more 6 pin from 2xsata or 2x molex. I am stupid fecker. So I went hard way: 2xadaptera from sata to molex and then adapter from 2x molex in to 6 pin.

2x molex in to 6 pin Ussually comes with gpu, but not all. You can get those adapters in local maplins for few quid.

Alactric

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Feck! That's right! I remembered about this in bed last night, I wanted to say that!!!

OP, newer 6870 all need 2x6 pin connections. Xps 420 has only 1. You can make 1 more 6 pin from 2xsata or 2x molex. I am stupid fecker. So I went hard way: 2xadaptera from sata to molex and then adapter from 2x molex in to 6 pin.

2x molex in to 6 pin Ussually comes with gpu, but not all. You can get those adapters in local maplins for few quid.

No worries mate, order won't ship till monday, I'll just stick in with the rest.

Is this the one your on about? http://www.amazon.co.uk/Molex-to-2-SATA-Internal-Power-Splitter-Cable/dp/B0002GRUV4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1336827756&sr=8-1

ShadowHearth

Nope. You need 2x molex to 6 pin cable.

And sata to molex adapter, just to be on a safe side.

Alactric

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Nope. You need 2x molex to 6 pin cable.

And sata to molex adapter, just to be on a safe side.

I'm a bit hopeless with the terminology but I seem to be getting some mixed results with "molex to six pin" is there a more official name like Pci express "something something"

ShadowHearth

This is what you need

2x molex in to 6 pin

Alactric

Will these be okay?


6pin

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CB4-6-cable-adapter/dp/B00118EWLS/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1336846649&sr=8-8

sata to molex:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Akasa-AK-CBPW03-15-Power-Connector-Adaptor/dp/B003VYB768/ref=sr_1_1?s=computers&ie=UTF8&qid=1336846818&sr=1-1

SpannerMonkey

Alactric wrote: »

ShadowHearth wrote: »

Nope. You need 2x molex to 6 pin cable.

And sata to molex adapter, just to be on a safe side.

I'm a bit hopeless with the terminology but I seem to be getting some mixed results with "molex to six pin" is there a more official name like Pci express "something something"

This
http://www.google.ie/search?tbm=isch&source=mog&hl=en-GB&gl=ie&client=safari&tab=wi&q=molex%20to%206%20pin&sa=N&biw=320&bih=416#i=0

SpannerMonkey

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CB-033-OK

Alactric

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CB-033-OK

Thanks for that, amazon had a really lousy selection.

Their adapters are good too?

http://www.overclockers.co.uk/showproduct.php?prodid=CB-037-OK

Effluo

Why are you linking molex to sata?

If you want to go with amazon and their free delivery(when you spend over £25) then you can get this one.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00118EWLS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

As other's have said, you may actually get one in the box with your GPU so I would call the retailer before you order, it may save you a few quid.

Alactric

Effluo wrote: »

Why are you linking molex to sata?

If you want to go with amazon and their free delivery(when you spend over £25) then you can get this one.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00118EWLS/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE

As other's have said, you may actually get one in the box with your GPU so I would call the retailer before you order, it may save you a few quid.

Not sure, I'm kind of filling out a shopping list here and it got brought up, it'll allow me to split off some more Sata points? which I may or may not need more of?

Effluo

Regarding the molex to pci 6 pin connector. If you got the card someone linked earlier from Komplett the molex to pci 6 pin will be included or at least it says it will on it's product page.
http://www.sapphiretech.com/presentation/product/?cid=1&gid=3&sgid=1037&pid=1270&psn=&lid=1&leg=0

I can't find the specific information regarding the product linked from pixmania, but I reckon it will also include a molex to pci connector.


I see now why you were looking at the sata to molex cables.

I'm supposing the guy is saying you could get it in case there isn't 2 spare molex connectors on your PSU.
The easiest way to find out if you have 2 free molex connectors in your PC right now is to just open it up and have a goo. (you're going to have to open it sometime might as well do it now and potentially save yourself a few bob or maybe put the money saved to the charity in my sig )

You will hopefully find two of these coming from your PSU(doesn't matter if they're on the same cable).
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/31/Molex_female_connector.jpg

If you've got em, then you'll be set when your new card comes

Alactric

So I had a look see inside and I have 1 white free (female) and 2 black (male?)

So I guess I should get an adapter?

ShadowHearth

So 1 molex and 2 sata. This was the reason I got sata to molex adapters. I got two, so I could use bouth on same cable.

ShadowHearth

Alactric wrote: »

You got two adapters?

yup, molex was on one cable and satas were on other cable. so it was more tidy to make 2 molex out of satas and then make 6 pin out of those 2 new molex.

sounds very confusing, but it is easyer then it sounds

Alactric

ShadowHearth wrote: »

yup, molex was on one cable and satas were on other cable. so it was more tidy to make 2 molex out of satas and then make 6 pin out of those 2 new molex.

sounds very confusing, but it is easyer then it sounds

So the card and the ram arrived today. It actually had a 6 pin in the box so I'm good to go on that front. But you were right about the adapter, but they should arrive tomorrow, so no worries there.

While I'm biding my time maybe you could tell me about some of the more practical performance aspects? Things like temp and noise?

btw I emptied out the box only have a code for Dirt 3 fall out, how crazy is that? I know what I'll be testing with.

SpannerMonkey

Sapphire run really quiet you won't even hear it ram makes no differance .
As for temps il check when I get home but graphics card with me on battlefield 3 at high settings for 3 hours it's about 60 degrees I think il check when I get home later

SpannerMonkey

Did u check the room you have to spare , I had to remove a network card to fit the graphics card , didnt matter as I wasnt using it anyway but check out what room you have in there it will be a fair bit bigger than your old card

Alactric

SpannerMonkey wrote: »

Did u check the room you have to spare , I had to remove a network card to fit the graphics card , didnt matter as I wasnt using it anyway but check out what room you have in there it will be a fair bit bigger than your old card

So I actually have everything ready to go, just waiting on the f-ing molex to sata adapter in the post. I fitted the card just to see what it was like and it fits like a glove. Did a lot of stuff while I was inside there too. Gave the processing fan and the airflow shroud a good clean and tidied up some wires. I also installed the ram, it registered immediately, no problem. It only shows 3.3gb on Dxdiag, though I guess that was to be expected with the OS.

Alactric

Forgot to check in here in the last few days. So I got everything set up and it runs everything I've thrown at it really well. It auto detects everything on high and runs at a solid 30-40 fps.

This whole upgrading lark has got my mind racing though. Saw a 750w PSU about the same size as my current one in town the other day and the thought of overclocking my q6600 to 3.2ghz is very tempting

Anyway thanks for all the help over the last week, really got me motivated.

ShadowHearth

Alactric wrote: »

Forgot to check in here in the last few days. So I got everything set up and it runs everything I've thrown at it really well. It auto detects everything on high and runs at a solid 30-40 fps.

This whole upgrading lark has got my mind racing though. Saw a 750w PSU about the same size as my current one in town the other day and the thought of overclocking my q6600 to 3.2ghz is very tempting

Anyway thanks for all the help over the last week, really got me motivated.

if you need more help, then you knowwhere to find us.

Alactric

ShadowHearth wrote: »

if you need more help, then you knowwhere to find us.

So, here's another part of the ongoing saga of my XPS 420. In my ignorance I was unaware that like, 95% of Dell mobos are a no go when it comes to OC'ing. So I start looking at the possibility of getting a used Asus or something and I come across this crackpot post.

http://forums.nvidia.com/index.php?showtopic=58361

So I follow all the instructions thinking "BSOD ahoy!" and ye know what? It actually worked. 3.0 ghz easy. All cores running between 20C idle and 40 max load. So a piece of black electrical tape spared me a new mother board and cooler, and going through the whole process of OCing just to get like, what? 3.2ghz? Madness altogether. :pac: