Key fobs - HKC

minder2009

Just a quick observation.
With the keyfobs for hkc you can set/ unset - part set - and set panic. No doubt fierce handy to have.
One drawback tho... If your reversing for example out your drive and you set your alarm it will full set no problem ... Provided you have all zones closed ie all windows/ doors closed over. If you leave a window open with a dual sensor for example the alarm will not set and you have no way of knowing. I would have thought an easy solution would be to have either a signal from saab either light flash/ short emit of sound to confirm full set.
Did anyone ever come across such a thing ? I mean a tone or similar to confirm full set. Sorry for long pm! Thanks

Minder

altor

In the devices option menu for the keyfob you need to set up the armsquawk.
This will ring the internal bell and activate the strobe on arming of the system.

minder2009

Wow Jason your a man of fierce knowledge !!!! Thks again
Much obliged.
Minder

altor

Always try my best Minder

minder2009

Jason

I just downloaded the manual; from HKC
I cant seem to see the devices menu on the one i downloaded.

its the HKC1070 , it definately has the armsquawk option?

Definately dont doubt ya , but will be arguing with the guy who installed
it first thing in a.m.! Wanna have my facts right!!
......................................................................................................

ps!! Just googling this armsquawk!! I see one post (different alarm) he makes the valid point that if you arm the system at night the internal bell rings it will frighten the life out of the kids!Can you set it just for full arm , i mean when all leaving, thats fine , but if using fob inside when going to bed /getting up, i dont want the internal siren making a racket. If you cant disable the internal siren , can you at least have the saab light signal alarm on/off on full set for example when leaving house? Thanks again
Minder

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Jason

I just downloaded the manual; from HKC
I cant seem to see the devices menu on the one i downloaded.


its the HKC1070 , it definately has the armsquawk option?

Definately dont doubt ya , but will be arguing with the guy who installed
it first thing in a.m.! Wanna have my facts right!!
cheers

thks

Minder

Yes, you need to set this up in the engineer menu in the devices options for the keyfob. Your facts are correct

minder2009

see amended post!!!

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

ps!! Just googling this armsquawk!! I see one post (different alarm) he makes the valid point that if you arm the system at night the internal bell rings it will frighten the life out of the kids!Can you set it just for full arm , i mean when all leaving, thats fine , but if using fob inside when going to bed /getting up, i dont want the internal siren making a racket. If you cant disable the internal siren , can you at least have the saab light signal alarm on/off on full set for example when leaving house? Thanks again
Minder

That is only if the system is set using the keyfob. Entering your code to arm on the keypad will not give you the armsquawk. It is only a brief ring of the internal bell but it is understandable that it would put the frighteners up you
This is the only way it works.

KoolKid

Can you set the strobe to flash briefly?
You could then use an echo flash internally to give the same indication.

altor

KoolKid wrote: »

Can you set the strobe to flash briefly?
You could then use an echo flash internally to give the same indication.

The internal bell will still sound as this is the way it is set up.
If an echo flash was used it would do the same internally.

KoolKid

No option for a seperate strobe output????

C.TECH

Quick question: Is your Sabb wired or wireless?

If it's wired then we can do a Mcgyver on it, we're going to need to use the Arm/Disarm output, a third party timed relay and the moons gravitational pull..ok maybe not the last one but this can be done with a 10 euro timed relay and a little inventive wiring, if it's wired.

KoolKid

There should an easier way.

C.TECH

KoolKid wrote: »

There should an easier way.

I don't think there is, just a few more equally complicated ways

KoolKid

That's why I love Siemens;)

minder2009

wired saab. Tell me a little more about inventive wiring , in compliance with current regs of course
cheers

C.TECH wrote: »

Quick question: Is your Sabb wired or wireless?

If it's wired then we can do a Mcgyver on it, we're going to need to use the Arm/Disarm output, a third party timed relay and the moons gravitational pull..ok maybe not the last one but this can be done with a 10 euro timed relay and a little inventive wiring, if it's wired.

KoolKid

What he's thinking is programming an output as Arm/Disarm . Use that output to trigger a timed relay , which will send a negative to the strobe for the defined time. The output will switch back after the system is disarmed & will start the timer again the next time the system is armed.

PS C-Tech, are you sure there is no option on HKC for a strobe output timed on Full or Part set??
I'd have though that was pretty standard stuff.

altor

C.TECH wrote: »

Quick question: Is your Sabb wired or wireless?

If it's wired then we can do a Mcgyver on it, we're going to need to use the Arm/Disarm output, a third party timed relay and the moons gravitational pull..ok maybe not the last one but this can be done with a 10 euro timed relay and a little inventive wiring, if it's wired.

This is an option, there is no other way I can see in the programming of the 10/70 as the two outputs are linked together for the armsquawk.

C.TECH

@ Minder: What Koolkid said, it would definitely work.

@ Koolkid: There really is no strobe option for Arm/Disarm nor is there an option to have the Arm/Disarm Pulse. You could mess around with Smart lights, triggered by a zone, triggered by an Arm/Disarm, but it would all be very messy and the minimum of the timer is 1 minute, so no use really.

PartGuard B was gonna be an option, it can have an Exit time and you can set up one of the PGMs as a buzzer that mimics the keypad, unfortunately the Exit Timer isn't independent and is linked to the Full set Timer, so once again the strobe would be flashing for a long time and flash on unset too.

All HKC would have to do to resolve this is put a timer option on the Arm/Disarm or take the internal sounder off the squawk.

KoolKid

SPC has the strobe flash on set as a standalone option with timer programmable. Even without that mapping gates could do this & more in any number of different ways. Someone's playing catch up me thinks...;)

minder2009

CTECH.... Is it the case with the hkc arm squawk enabled that the internal bell sounds for a short time and the Saab flashes when you set/ unset with fob ? As Altor says... Both will operate by default ie. the Saab flash @ int. bell when fob is used? I hope that is the case. Hasn't be enabled yet.... Thks ps I know the squawk does not activate when keypad is used which is ideal. Thks

altor

That is correct Minder.
The two are connected together when the armsquawk is enabled that is why you can't have just one working without the other.

KoolKid

So is there any option for the strobe to continue after the 15 minutes for the bell cut out?

Stephen868

The arm squawk feature will toggle the strobe output and internal bell output for 2 seconds only on a full set of the system using the key fob.if you are at home you are part setting your panel and well not activate the arm squawk feature.no need for butchering a sabb and adding timers.

KoolKid

Is there a separate strobe output on that panel?

C.TECH

Stephen868 wrote: »

The arm squawk feature will toggle the strobe output and internal bell output for 2 seconds only on a full set of the system using the key fob.if you are at home you are part setting your panel and well not activate the arm squawk feature.no need for butchering a sabb and adding timers.

OP said he is full setting and the Squawk would wake people still in the home(yeah I dont know why not Partguard either). Arm/Disarm linked to a timed relay, linked to the strobe would suit just fine in either case,and it's hardly butchering.

C.TECH

KoolKid wrote: »

Is there a separate strobe output on that panel?

Yes

KoolKid

Then why HKC would not simply have the feature to fire bell or strobe for s definable time is strange. Its a fairly basic option .

Stephen868

KoolKid wrote: »

Then why HKC would not simply have the feature to fire bell or strobe for s definable time is strange. Its a fairly basic option .

Yes internal bell, and strobe output are separate internal bell is timed at 15 min by default were strobe is only turned off after a user unset.It is a basic option that just needs to be turned on by the installer.

KoolKid

But no option to time the strobe output on a panel action?

Stephen868

KoolKid wrote: »

But no option to time the strobe output on a panel action?

Yes that is possible using zone mapping. Trip a zone and an output will trip.latched or pulsed.

KoolKid

Still need a relay then. Arm disarm out put into a relay to open a tech zone to trip a strobe output timed.
Would that be the way to go?

Stephen868

KoolKid wrote: »

Still need a relay then. Arm disarm out put into a relay to open a tech zone to trip a strobe output timed.
Would that be the way to go?

If you only want a strobe flash and not internal bell sounding.you could do it that way. Arm disarm output opening a tech zone that is mapped to a panel output that will trip for X seconds. No need for a relay just using a second trigger to the strobe on the bell.

KoolKid

As ye already have the output types would you consider an option to programme this directly. Its something I get asked for a fair bit.

C.TECH

Zone mapping of course, well done.

KoolKid

It could be simplier...
Like this:

Thunderbird2

I don't think mines squaks when I set it for night time .. Just when setting it for away as it scared the crap outta me when I set it with the fob going out the door .. It was the first time I set it with the fob and I'd usually only use the fob for night set A .. But I could be wrong ...

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't think mines squaks when I set it for night time .. Just when setting it for away as it scared the crap outta me when I set it with the fob going out the door .. It was the first time I set it with the fob and I'd usually only use the fob for night set A .. But I could be wrong ...

It is not meant to as part set is mainly used when there are people in the house, It will for a full set only.

Thunderbird2

altor wrote: »

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

I don't think mines squaks when I set it for night time .. Just when setting it for away as it scared the crap outta me when I set it with the fob going out the door .. It was the first time I set it with the fob and I'd usually only use the fob for night set A .. But I could be wrong ...

It is not meant to as part set is mainly used when there are people in the house, It will for a full set only.

So wouldn't arm squawk work for OP since he was worried about it waking the kids at night?

altor

Thunderbird2 wrote: »

So wouldn't arm squawk work for OP since he was worried about it waking the kids at night?

Yep

Jnealon

KoolKid wrote: »

It could be simplier...
Like this:

+1 much easier this way
or have a fob that tells you the system is arming, similar to enforcer or visonic

KoolKid

The options with Siemens are far wider as well. With Mapping gates you could have individual actions for any setting or any user...

minder2009

Internal siren at back of house is there a small wireless siren you could place at location near to front of house to hear squawk as well as see Saab flash? Thks

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Internal siren at back of house is there a small wireless siren you could place at location near to front of house to hear squawk as well as see Saab flash? Thks

Yes, there is a wire free option available. It is an RF Echo.

minder2009

Ok that's great , it could perhaps be fitted beside the Saab ? Externally , and programmed on rkp. What sort of price roughly are they? Thks
Minder

KoolKid

minder2009 wrote: »

Ok that's great , it could perhaps be fitted beside the Saab ? Externally

They wouldn't be IP rated for outdoor.

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Ok that's great , it could perhaps be fitted beside the Saab ? Externally , and programmed on rkp. What sort of price roughly are they? Thks
Minder

No, they are only an internal Bell. It could be installed inside the front door. They are loud so it will be heard from outside. They cost about €40-€45.

minder2009

Re Hkc
Hi all
I see on part set the countdown starts. You are inside most likely in my case heading to bed. I cannot see any advantage having this? Can anyone else? It can be taken off off in settings if I recall correctly. Secondly I just notice the alarm light flashes continually when it does set. In old panel that used to indicate event.. Is this correct? Lastly alarm about 2 weeks old one fob flashing red continually , woke up earlier heard beeps from rkp then fob wouldn't unset alarm!! I see aug 2011 printed on rear of this fob , presume these beeps mean new battery required!? Me beginning to think supporting local business might not be best option!!! Thks
Minder

altor

minder2009 wrote: »

Re Hkc
Hi all
I see on part set the countdown starts. You are inside most likely in my case heading to bed. I cannot see any advantage having this? Can anyone else? It can be taken off off in settings if I recall correctly. Secondly I just notice the alarm light flashes continually when it does set. In old panel that used to indicate event.. Is this correct? Lastly alarm about 2 weeks old one fob flashing red continually , woke up earlier heard beeps from rkp then fob wouldn't unset alarm!! I see aug 2011 printed on rear of this fob , presume these beeps mean new battery required!? Me beginning to think supporting local business might not be best option!!! Thks
Minder

That is when the entry/exit is set up for part set. The advantage of this is if you want to leave the house but still part set the alarm if say some one is in bed. It can be changed in the part guard option menu. There was a change in the standard to allow an indication on the keypad of the alarm being set. This again can be changed in the part guard menu. The red light when you press the fob means it has not communicated properly with the control panel. If it was green then it has communicated correctly. Orange indicates you are out of range of the panel.

dahamsta

I was offered these when my alarm was set up but it struck me that from a security point of view they might defeat the purpose, that if you lost your keys you'd lose your 2nd factor. The HKC website mentions a "multi-button" approach, is this a (weak) equivalent of a PIN?

KoolKid

Key fobs are a risk if lost but the fobs can be easily deleted . Your bigger problem there will be replacing your locks & your keys. Regardless of code entry on the fob your still going to delete it anyway.