Post Season thoughts

etloveslsd

As the post season is winding up and the trade deadline is fast approaching, I want to share some thoughts I had on the BFL off season:


Things that grinded my gears about post-season

“Elite”

This was my number one bug bearer. The word elite was bandied about so much. Let’s look at the word elite: “the choice or best of anything considered collectively, as of a group or class of persons”
In some respects every player in the NFL is elite, as there are approx. 2,000 players in the league and there are 6,840,507,003 people on planet Earth. In other respects there are only a very few players who are truly elite.

Some examples are:Troy Polamalu (SS) - 99 overall. The next best strong safety is Eric Berry who is 95 and then Chris Harris 91. Troy truly is elite as he is the best in his position and there is a significant drop off to the next player.


Take middle linebacker, no doubt an important part of the team. There were some eyebrows raised when Heli traded Timmons and Bush for MJD. Part of it was over Timmons “Eliteness”. Timmons is an excellent player and a beast, yes but elite? No. Look at the players who are better than him. Patrick Willis (98) and Jon Beason (97), even The Landshark who is 94 cannot be considered elite anymore. Timmons is 92, which makes him the 5th best MLB in the BFL, but not elite.




I’ll trade you him, but only if you replace him.
We have all had these trades where you ask about a player and the other person comes back and says he will only let the guy go if YOU replace him with a player in the same position. I’m sorry, am I looking after your teams too? I have enough trouble GMing my own team without having to stress over yours too. It is your responsibility to source you own players! Sure you can ask for a replacement but it should not be a deal breaker if it’s not there!!


Last off season I traded with Paddy for Drew Brees. Paddy offered Brees on his block looking for a QB and a DT. I offered him that and were sealed a deal very quickly. It left me with a gap at DT, but I went back into the market and traded for DT and do you know what? The guy I got in a later trade was better than the guy I sent to Paddy. Bi-Wining!!


I will concede that there are some instances where it should be necessary to look for a replacement. This past off season DangerDave traded his man crush Troy Polamalu (2nd mention, maybe I man crush him too, must be the hair). I think in that instance it is fair to look for a replacement, as Troy is elite.


In real terms could you imagine negotiations between The Patriots and The Cowboys like this?


Cowboys: - We want Wes Welker, what will it take for him?


Patriots: -We do like DeMarcus Ware, but you will have to replace Welker so you will have to include Miles Austin or Dez Bryant too, either would be fine.


No? Me either.

What is a Trade Block?
For this one I will compare to soccer. If you put someone on your trade block it is like transfer listing them. You should expect to take a loss on them.



I’m not suggesting for a moment that Haloti Ngata should be traded for Bernard Berrian, not that much of a loss. By placing someone on your trading block you are announcing that you are willing to part company with them. This also goes around when you offer for someone who is not on a trade block; you should expect to pay a little more.



Soccer example: Chelsea enquire about the availability of Fernando Torres who is not available, they pay £50million. Celtic asked about Shaun Maloney from Aston Villa, Villa wanted rid so he went for a million.

Danger_dave1

I agree ! With the elite business ! Some crazy things !

For me this off season that annoyed me was one people offering crazy trades to new people in the league. I'd take the Falcons as an example. Cullen Jenkins OVR 89 POT A before progression and the trades offered to him were unbalanced and largely unfavorable. ( I could use numerous other examples of new to newish coaches being offered horrible trades by people) I also think if i hadn't pmed some of the coaches a lot of those trades would have went ahead.

Another problem for me and it should be addressed for Madden 13. Making a trade for a player and then trading him away a in the post season. We strive for a sim league here. Thats not it !

From Madden 13 i think we need to put in a rule if you trade and get a player he needs to stay on your roster till the following off season.

matthew8

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

I agree ! With the elite business ! Some crazy things !

For me this off season that annoyed me was one people offering crazy trades to new people in the league. I'd take the Falcons as an example. Cullen Jenkins OVR 89 POT A before progression and the trades offered to him were unbalanced and largely unfavorable. ( I could use numerous other examples of new to newish coaches being offered horrible trades by people) I also think if i hadn't pmed some of the coaches a lot of those trades would have went ahead.

Another problem for me and it should be addressed for Madden 13. Making a trade for a player and then trading him away a in the post season. We strive for a sim league here. Thats not it !

From Madden 13 i think we need to put in a rule if you trade and get a player he needs to stay on your roster till the following off season.

If we are going to attach that to being a sim league then the trade commission thingy should go out the window, as well as rules for running up the score.

I actually disagree with all the things that annoyed you. Anyone can define elite however they want. And as for wanting a replacement, where's the problem with that? It's very rare that teams trade one player for another anyway in the real NFL, and of course you'd want a replacement if your backup is 20 points below.

etloveslsd

matthew8 wrote: »

If we are going to attach that to being a sim league then the trade commission thingy should go out the window, as well as rules for running up the score.

I actually disagree with all the things that annoyed you. Anyone can define elite however they want. And as for wanting a replacement, where's the problem with that? It's very rare that teams trade one player for another anyway in the real NFL, and of course you'd want a replacement if your backup is 20 points below.

The point I was making is people calling off deals because a replacement wasn't part of it. It's not up to me to source your team for you.

matthew8

etloveslsd wrote: »

The point I was making is people calling off deals because a replacement wasn't part of it. It's not up to me to source your team for you.

The guy who is wanting a replacement is nearly always the guy sending the better player, so that guy is the boss in the trade and he can decide whatever he wants in the trade.

etloveslsd

matthew8 wrote: »

The guy who is wanting a replacement is nearly always the guy sending the better player, so that guy is the boss in the trade and he can decide whatever he wants in the trade.

Then why trade him? If you are trading a 90 plus player to upgrade other areas of your team then accpet the loss or keep the superstar

Danger_dave1

matthew8 wrote: »

If we are going to attach that to being a sim league then the trade commission thingy should go out the window, as well as rules for running up the score.

Not really man. We strive to get a sim league as much as possible, but running up the score is just not cool, we all know that. The Trade commission hasn't even been created its still be created. Plus there's plenty of time before we look at what we need.

A possibility would be a trade advisory board or a full on trade commission (Thats a separate issue)

I still think the trading of players you've just gotten in a different trade is crazy and shouldnt be allowed. We may want to consider the cap for next year.

BigBadRob83

If you don't like what someone is looking for in a trade or how they value a player, then don't deal with that person or try to trade for that player.
People place different values on different players. People define "elite" and many other subjective words differently. That's why these things are subjective.

I think a trade commission and other things like that are a good idea if its to promote fairness in the league, as long as it doesn't prevent someone from doing something they want to.

Dave - I'm wondering why you think someone has to stay on a roster all season long? I know I've traded guys in and out, and I don't see the issue with it, what negative effect it is having?

I know I personally enjoy the trading aspect of this league and I know a lot of other guys do too. And it is meant to be enjoyable at the end of the day.
Apart from the issue that people brought up with the Peppers trade (which I have explained elsewhere, and NekoChan was happy with, including after I offered to undo it), I don't remember anything too contentious.
I'd be wary of limiting actions in the league, unless they are having a definite negative/unfair effect.

helimachoptor

Agreed on the trading of new players dave(in saying that I did it this year to get an "elite" player!)

matthew8

etloveslsd wrote: »

Then why trade him? If you are trading a 90 plus player to upgrade other areas of your team then accpet the loss or keep the superstar

Again, the guy trading the best player can ask for what he wants, it's just negotiation.

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

Not really man. We strive to get a sim league as much as possible, but running up the score is just not cool, we all know that. The Trade commission hasn't even been created its still be created. Plus there's plenty of time before we look at what we need.

A possibility would be a trade advisory board or a full on trade commission (Thats a separate issue)

I still think the trading of players you've just gotten in a different trade is crazy and shouldnt be allowed. We may want to consider the cap for next year.

We are trying to push this sim league too far. Trading is fun. End of. More trading, more fun.

The_Gatsby

Is there anyway we can take the salary cap into account? This would force people to have to release star players. In the NFL, the Eagles were forced to release Asante Samuel because they couldn't afford him. They only got a 7th round pick but had to accept because they couldn't afford to keep him. A salary cap would lead to more stars being traded and I think an overall improvement to weaker teams in the league who have more cap space. I also think cap space would add another dimension to being a GM as players would actually have to think about which free agents they go for and would have to manage the team in order to try and leave the most cap space.

I do think players asking for a replacement player in a trade is a bit ridiculous. It means that players can only really afford to trade at certain positions, making it quite hard to upgrade. Saying that, I did it this year but I think it was necessary in that trade. Some players just ask for a replacement because they don't want too much of a downgrade at one position but then, why are they trading?

I don't think "rules" should be put in place because it kind of makes the league a bit strict but maybe we could use "guidelines", everybody on here would have the common sense to try and work to those guidelines.

helimachoptor

I think one of the rumours is to have a salary cap for Madden 13... I think!

but luke you're right it would defintely add an extra dimension to being in the league and would be great experience!

Danger_dave1

It wouldnt happen in the NFL( I know its a video game ) . A defensive tackle would not be traded from the Chargers and then traded straight away to the redskins. Your not trading players for your team your trading players to trade them again, This isnt baseball card trading.

If we do go with the Cap next year, Trading would be much more rare. With the Cap penalties.

Paully D

A salary cap would certainly be very interesting.

Pudsy33

If its implemented in the game, I'm happy with a cap.

BigBadRob83

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

It wouldnt happen in the NFL( I know its a video game ) . A defensive tackle would not be traded from the Chargers and then traded straight away to the redskins. Your not trading players for your team your trading players to trade them again, This isnt baseball card trading.

If we do go with the Cap next year, Trading would be much more rare. With the Cap penalties.

There's lots of things that happen in Madden that don't happen in the real NFL. If we compare every action in the game to the real-life version we would be constantly disappointed.

The one thing it is similar to is a three-team-trade, which happens in the real NFL but not in Madden.
If it's something that people want to do, and adds to the enjoyment and interest level (which I think it does, especially when people are sitting around waiting for two weeks to play during the playoffs and lead up to the draft), then why not? What is the harm in it?

SantryRed

A salary cap would be an absolute nightmare for a fantasy league if it's not implemented in Madden 13. There's no way we'd be able to use it through LM. It'd be a nightmare to use.

helimachoptor

Agreed Ben, if its not in Madden then we cant use it or you would be up til all hours working out teams cap space, cap penalties etc !

BigBadRob83

Salary cap for a fantasy draft would be almost impossible to manage. Only realistic way to do would probably be to take over the actual teams. Fantasy draft definitely my preferred choice

Berty44

I absolutely agree, a fantasy draft franchise setup and salary cap are virtually mutually exclusive. You could do the draft and then find you are over the salary cap immediately. I think it would only work using real rosters.

As for Dave's recommondation on not trading-on players. In the Madden PFL franchise we found a lot of antagonism towards certain coaches arising from trading, antagonism is not good for any league to have. Basically some guys were well known trade sharks and had no qualms about raping other coaches in trades simply because they knew better. The majority of guys did not want to see this. So a rule was introduced that if you traded for a player then that player had to stay on your roster for that season. While everyone here may not agree it is accepted to be an excellent rule in that it protects newbies somewhat.

BigBadRob83

If the rule is there to protect rookies, is it not superfluous when there's a trade commission?
Besides the fact that it's not done in the NFL, what is the actual harm in someone trading a player onwards?

For instance, Team A has no need for their second DT but needs a TE. Team B has an extra TE but no need for a DT.
Why should Team B be prohibited from trading their TE for the DT, with the hopes of trading him onwards?

Berty44

There were a couple of reasons for it Rob. Firstly as you say it rarely happens in the NFL.

There currently is no Trade Commission as such but one is being instituted for the next Madden. That being said there were trades stopped because guys saw obvious one sided trades and kicked up with guys being taken advantage of.

The real reason was to prevent the trade sharks from going mad trading their way to get the best team because they knew more about the value of playerss / picks that guys new to the game or who trade very little. Not saying thats either right or wrong but the general consensus of the whole league was they did not want to see that. There was a vote and overwhelmingly this was decided. I think the few who voted against it were ......probably the sharks :pac:

BigBadRob83

I can see the cause for it alright Berty in that situation. If we do have a trade commission though, I wouldn't see a need for it personally. I am a free marketeer myself (and as anyone can see from the forum, an active trader). My reasoning for keeping trades open isn't to fleece anyone, see it as an enjoyable part of the game. Though that's probably because I'm a better GM than a Madden player.

Anyway, think with things like this and other issues could be a good idea to have a poll on any issues before Madden 13. That way the whole league can decide what we do and don't want

etloveslsd

matthew8 wrote: »

Anyone can define elite however they want.

You can't really define elite how you want. Elite means the best of the best! There is a difference between elite and favourite.

I have Mercedes Lewis at TE, he is 95 overall, I really like him and he is very very good, but he is not elite. Antonio Gates is elite. Another argument would be the OLB Berty got 34 sacks with. Would he have got that production in someone elses team? Becuase he had 34 sacks, and is 71 overall does that make elite? No

mikemac1

I traded Mario Williams to the Giants last season
It was a long tough negoitation but we got a deal done

As Super Mario is a top player I got two players in return
Like the Raiders said, if you're trading the better player you have the stronger negotiation situation

And now one season later I'm finding the Giants are unhappy with two for one deals and lots of aspects of trading

What changed?
Am I going to offend people if I start making offers to other GM's

etloveslsd

mikemac1 wrote: »

I traded Mario Williams to the Giants last season
It was a long tough negoitation but we got a deal done

As Super Mario is a top player I got two players in return
Like the Raiders said, if you're trading the better player you have the stronger negotiation situation

And now one season later I'm finding the Giants are unhappy with two for one deals and lots of aspects of trading

What changed?
Am I going to offend people if I start making offers to other GM's

I never said I don't like 2 for 1 deals

mikemac1

I was looking at this post

etloveslsd wrote: »

Then why trade him? If you are trading a 90 plus player to upgrade other areas of your team then accpet the loss or keep the superstar

BigBadRob83

etloveslsd wrote: »

You can't really define elite how you want. Elite means the best of the best! There is a difference between elite and favourite.

I have Mercedes Lewis at TE, he is 95 overall, I really like him and he is very very good, but he is not elite. Antonio Gates is elite. Another argument would be the OLB Berty got 34 sacks with. Would he have got that production in someone elses team? Becuase he had 34 sacks, and is 71 overall does that make elite? No

Just because you personally don't define someone (e.g. Marcedes Lewis) as elite, doesn't make it so.
Elite is a subjective term, it does not mean only 'X'% of a population are elite. Seriously dude, this a really small thing to be getting yourself exercised over.

ELITE (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elite)
a. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: "In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them" (Times Literary Supplement).
b. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.

etloveslsd

BigBadRob83 wrote: »

Just because you personally don't define someone (e.g. Marcedes Lewis) as elite, doesn't make it so.
Elite is a subjective term, it does not mean only 'X'% of a population are elite. Seriously dude, this a really small thing to be getting yourself exercised over.

ELITE (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elite)
a. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: "In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them" (Times Literary Supplement).
b. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.

I'm not really that exercised over it, I posted my opinion and I'm respoinding to comments.

Danger_dave1

BigBadRob83 wrote: »

Just because you personally don't define someone (e.g. Marcedes Lewis) as elite, doesn't make it so.
Elite is a subjective term, it does not mean only 'X'% of a population are elite. Seriously dude, this a really small thing to be getting yourself exercised over.

ELITE (http://www.thefreedictionary.com/elite)
a. A group or class of persons or a member of such a group or class, enjoying superior intellectual, social, or economic status: "In addition to notions of social equality there was much emphasis on the role of elites and of heroes within them" (Times Literary Supplement).
b. The best or most skilled members of a group: the football team's elite.

Read is original post. Troy Polamalu is the best SS in the game there's a drop off in skill after him. He's truly elite.

Vonta Leach is the best full back in the game. He's the only elite Full back in the game. Others can be considered excellent players but cannot be considered in the same league as him.

The term elite was branded around a fair bit in the post season. don't think it got under my bonnet like etloveslsd. But a good tight end or a good linebacker can't be labelled elite when theres players significantly above them in skill level at the same position.

How can they be considered elite ?

---

On the Trade part. I can see why you want to keep it open BigBadRob, you benefited massively from this post season. I still maintain you took advantage of a new player ,they accepted the trade and decided to "live and learn " from it. Thats done we need to move on and learn from it.

The off season trading needs to be addressed for madden 13

mikemac1

My players are elite when I trade them away
Their players are scrubs when I trade for them

ibmax

I think the point of the thread has been lost somewhere between the first post and the top of page 3 - my post not included

I think ETlovesLSD is merely observing the frustrations a lot of players seemed to encounter when trading.

- "Elite" IS in the eye of the beholder but the word has been bandied around so much it has lost its meaning/value.
- 2 for 1 deals are not a bad thing at all. Neither are 2 for 2 or 3 for 3 and so on. However, requiring 1 trade partner to ensure both parties are not left short at a trade position should not be as much of a deciding factor as it appears to be.
- The trade blocks in general do seem to be pretty irrelevant. It'd be interesting to see if players on blocks were traded more or less than players not on blocks. I know from my own team; i traded 8 players who weren't on my trade block. I put 11 players on my trade block - 1 was traded :eek: .....Anyone want to volunteer their time and get the league wide numbers

Also, on the topic of "rookie/rookieish" coaches receiving ridiculous offers which both Dave and Berty have touched on (not like that ) I have received offers from several teams telling me i am "weak" in a particular area and offering me a player in this "weak" position in exchange for a "backup" of mine. I would consider myself to have a decent knowledge of the NFL and the scheme fit of certain players so i can spot that these offers are not fair/balanced in any way. However, someone who maybe wouldn't have the same understanding but enjoys the game of Madden none-the-less could easily be caught out by one of these. After all, one man's OLB is another's DE and so on...

There are a lot of calls for a trade commission and some rules bouncing about at the moment. I'm not sure how any trade commission would work going forward as trading by it's nature is opinionated, with each party having their own thoughts on where value lies. I do think some sort of protection is needed to ensure no-one is getting tricked into losing players that hold more value than they are unaware of.

Perhaps instead of a trade commission there would be a player/few players who will let each new GM know; the value of their team, how best to line up, which positions needs upgrading, and which positions are strong. This means each GM is educated when they go to trade and it's down to their own negotiation skills and what they deem valuable when trying to get the best deal from a trade. I thinking combining this with Luke's suggested "trade guidelines" would remove the need for an actual commission and could encourage more trading which everyone obviously enjoys.

You never know... we might even see a trade where an "elite player" is moved in a "2 for 1" deal with the 2 players going the other way both coming from a "trade block" and not being referred to as "backups" :cool:

etloveslsd

mikemac1 wrote: »

I was looking at this post

That was in reference to Mathew saying that if you are trading a high value player you should get a replacement.

The point I was making was it annoyed me when players drop the trade because there wasn't a replacement on offer. If you want to upgrade a certain aspect of your team you have to be willing to pay for it.

The trade between us you mentioned for Super Mario. If I remember correctly I gave you Jacob Bell, a left guard and someone else. As a result of the trade I was down a quality left guard. I didn't demand a replacement, cause I wanted Mario. I went out this season and traded Revis to Berty to get Mike Iupati.

I'm sure someone will also point out that I got a corner as part of the Revis deal and I am contradicting myself. I would also point you to the post I made on Berty's trade block, saying there doesn't have to be a corner involved. To be honest, when I decided to trade Revis I wanted A lineman and a MLB. Berty's MLBs didn't really fit, so I accepted his corner.

BigBadRob83

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

Read is original post.

Troy Polamalu is the best SS in the game there's a drop off in skill after him. He's truly elite.

Vonta Leach is the best full back in the game. He's the only elite Full back in the game. Others can be considered excellent players but cannot be considered in the same league as him.

The term elite was branded around a fair bit in the post season. don't think it got under my bonnet like etloveslsd. But a good tight end or a good linebacker can't be labelled elite when theres players significantly above them in skill level at the same position.

How can they be considered elite ?

Have read his post, thanks. I think you're missing my point Dave, Elite is a subjective word. Neither ET, you or any of us can draw a line and say "these players are elite, these are not".
My main point is; I don't see how someone labelling someone elite or crap anything should affect anyone else. People are entitled to their opinions and how they value different players. If you don't agree with them, so what, get over it.

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

On the Trade part. I can see why you want to keep it open BigBadRob, you benefited massively from this post season. I still maintain you took advantage of a new player ,they accepted the trade and decided to "live and learn " from it. Thats done we need to move on and learn from it.

I think anyone who makes a trade thinks that they benefited from it, otherwise why would you do it. Again, it's another opinion.
If you're going to bring up the Peppers trade again, a lot has gone on in PM's etc. that you haven't seen Dave, so I will just go through what happened:
1. I PM'd NekoChan chatting about trades, advised to put a trade block and some players that others might be interested in. I also said I had some players available that might be fit the Seahawks needs (DT's, WR's, CB's), and that I would be interested in Peppers if they wanted to trade, I could offer Osi + other player(s). I did not make any trade offer.
2. Got a reply, thanking me for the msg, and proposing the trade: Peppers -for- Osi + Sims
3. I accepted the trade.
4. You complained, said I took advantage of someone.
5. I said I would undo the trade if NekoChan wanted to. Also PM'd this to NekoChan and send all the PM's to Raoul after your complaint.

Ultimately, myself and NekoChan made a deal and NekoChan had the opportunity to undo it and chose not to.

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

The off season trading needs to be addressed for madden 13

Needs to be addressed? Or, you want it to be addressed.

The_Gatsby

I was previously for a trade commission but having thought about it, I don't really see how it would be put into practice. It could get quite complicated when peoples opinions differ. For instance, in my trading Gates I feel like I got, what would normally be, a fairly bad offer from Rob. However I wanted Gates gone and was willing to drop my price so I had no problem with it. Some people may have PM'd me telling me this was a bad trade if it was done publicly and I would have felt as if people were judging me on what I wanted to do with my team.

At the end of the day, I think most people would have the common sense to see if they are getting ripped off and if they weren't sure, it's easy enough to PM one of the more experienced members, like I did with Dave. It was helpful to hear his opinion but at the same time I think sometimes players just want to get on with it.

I think when a new member joins they should be PM'd all the details about how the league works and in that PM maybe a point should be made about trades and if they feel they need advice then to PM one of the more experienced players. I don't see the need to overly democratize the league and make it too strict with various rules etc.

etloveslsd

matthew8 wrote: »

If we are going to attach that to being a sim league then the trade commission thingy should go out the window, as well as rules for running up the score.

The rule about running up the score is more about sportmanship. The whole point of this league is people were tired of lobby games and the antics that follow there. But if a player is being beaten by 40+ point a game they won't stick around too long.

I seem to remember alot of people kicking up a fuss with the Boards overloards talking about how we want to grow this community.

Running up scores will cause people to leave and goes against the effort that was put in to get this forum and grow the league

Berty44

What I would like to see rather than a Trade Commission is 1 or 2 people nominated as Trade Advisors as such. These guys would be available for new members to the league to pm regarding any trades they are making to get advice. In fact anyone making a trade who was not sure could pm them to see what they think.

Danger_dave1

BigBadRob83 wrote: »

Needs to be addressed? Or, you want it to be addressed.

Need , want, addressed all the above. Your telling me we should just have left the trading and set up no help for new people ?

I know trading needs to be addressed and I wanted to bring it to the league and start a dialogue on it.

I've no problem with a coach going out and getting the value in trades but not to the detriment of the leagues members , new and old.

I also have a big problem with "shark" traders trading crazily and re using people in new trades, its not good for the previous person who you traded for and as Berty said it can create animosity.

BigBadRob83

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

Your telling me we should just have left the trading and set up no help for new people ?

If you read my posts elsewhere, you'd see that I'm in favour of the trade commission to help people who aren't sure of things. If people want advice, then they can ask for it. If people want to make a trade, then they should go for it. I'm mainly in favour of people doing what they want and not a fan of the nanny-state approach.

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

I know trading needs to be addressed and I wanted to bring it to the league and start a dialogue on it.

You think trading needs to be addressed. I've yet to see anyone who was actually involved in a trade complain. Just people outside of the trade who disagree. If they did, then maybe your point-of-view might have more weight.

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

I've no problem with a coach going out and getting the value in trades but not to the detriment of the leagues members , new and old.

Again, it's your opinion what is to someone's detriment. I think anyone (on both sides of a trade) who makes a trade does so trying to improve their roster.

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

I also have a big problem with "shark" traders trading crazily

Insult taken, received. If you think I'm a shark, then so be it.

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

re using people in new trades, its not good for the previous person who you traded for and as Berty said it can create animosity.

The only animosity I'm sensing is coming from you, which I wouldn't have thought about before and am not keen to continue. We (and others on either side I'm sure) obviously have different opinions on this, and as I said in a previous post (which I think would be a good point to leave this discussion at, for the league to decide):

BigBadRob83 wrote: »

Anyway, think with things like this and other issues could be a good idea to have a poll on any issues before Madden 13. That way the whole league can decide what we do and don't want

Danger_dave1

BigBadRob83 wrote: »

Insult taken, received. If you think I'm a shark, then so be it.


The only animosity I'm sensing is coming from you, which I wouldn't have thought about before and am not keen to continue. We (and others on either side I'm sure) obviously have different opinions on this, and as I said in a previous post (which I think would be a good point to leave this discussion at, for the league to decide):

Rob I'm not trying to insult you, were are still part of the same community. I'm more concerned with the community as a whole. I haven't been affected by your trades. I've talked to people in pm which you havent seen and eye brows have been more than raised with the level of trading that has gone on league wide.

Realistically I doubt for Madden 13 we'll see as much trading just for the fact most of us will be there to draft are teams for the start now. So it will only really effect new people coming into the league.

---

Rob im not trying to insult. We AFCers should stick together

matthew8

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

Vonta Leach is the best full back in the game. He's the only elite Full back in the game. Others can be considered excellent players but cannot be considered in the same league as him.

Elite, yet he can't power through the line for a yard. He sucks. Sammy Morris is better.

helimachoptor

Rob I think you are taking this too personally.

Trades will always be weighted to one side or another, I think dave felt that the trade was too in favour of you.
Now in saying that.. 1 "elite :pac:" player for 2 good players is not always a bad deal if those 2 players are going to be upgrades on what the other coach already has.

Also Rob you're not a shark.. you're a tiger

I would also go on and say I love trading, at the end of the season I have a list of people I want to trade and then a couple of people I'd be willing to trade if a really good offer came in.



Willis for example, I had an offer of 4 players for him from one coach.
Willis rated at 98 was getting traded for a player rated 92, 90, 89 and 89.
The coach was keen to get him and the coach was a little more experienced than Neko, but if i had accepted that trade I would say a lot of people wouldnt have been happy including Dave

BigBadRob83

Danger_dave1 wrote: »

Rob I'm not trying to insult you, were are still part of the same community. I'm more concerned with the community as a whole. I haven't been affected by your trades. I've talked to people in pm which you havent seen and eye brows have been more than raised with the level of trading that has gone on league wide.

Realistically I doubt for Madden 13 we'll see as much trading just for the fact most of us will be there to draft are teams for the start now. So it will only really effect new people coming into the league.

---

Rob im not trying to insult. We AFCers should stick together

Fair enough Dave. Think enough has been said on this for now. Would be interested to see what changes people would suggest for operation of the community for Madden 13.
Take your point on the trades for M13. Missed the draft for this league and have been trying to adjust my team ever since as the balance of roster was nothing like what I wanted

SantryRed

helimachoptor wrote: »

Rob I think you are taking this too personally.

Trades will always be weighted to one side or another, I think dave felt that the trade was too in favour of you.
Now in saying that.. 1 "elite :pac:" player for 2 good players is not always a bad deal if those 2 players are going to be upgrades on what the other coach already has.

Also Rob you're not a shark.. you're a tiger

I would also go on and say I love trading, at the end of the season I have a list of people I want to trade and then a couple of people I'd be willing to trade if a really good offer came in.



Willis for example, I had an offer of 4 players for him from one coach.
Willis rated at 98 was getting traded for a player rated 92, 90, 89 and 89.
The coach was keen to get him and the coach was a little more experienced than Neko, but if i had accepted that trade I would say a lot of people wouldnt have been happy including Dave

Why on earth didn't you accept that? Holy crap I'd have been all over it :pac:

ibmax

helimachoptor wrote: »

Willis rated at 98 was getting traded for a player rated 92, 90, 89 and 89.

SantryRed wrote: »

Why on earth didn't you accept that? Holy crap I'd have been all over it :pac:

The players were a kicker, punter, long snapper and a white corner back

helimachoptor

SantryRed wrote: »

Why on earth didn't you accept that? Holy crap I'd have been all over it :pac:

1) It wasnt a fair offer for the other coach but i wasnt prepared to let him go for anything less (catch 22!)
2) I really like Willis

helimachoptor

@ibmax, yours was a good offer.. but not as good as the one i described

SantryRed

helimachoptor wrote: »

1) It wasnt a fair offer for the other coach but i wasnt prepared to let him go for anything less (catch 22!)
2) I really like Willis

If someone is willing to give up that much for Willis, the trade commission would not get involved. I honestly think the commission shouldn't exist upon further thinking. And rather a couple of advisors who I would reference new players to.

helimachoptor

Feel free to make me an offer ben

matthew8

Did these players all have good key stats too?

helimachoptor

matthew8 wrote: »

Did these players all have good key stats too?

Yes.. I received some very good offers for Willis a couple from new-ish guys and a couple from other players all were very good offers.