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#12M15M Global Day of Action

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13

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    #62
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    No where did I say that.

    I wish more Irish people would get involved in politics and their communities whatever form that might take. Even libertarians :)


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    #63
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    20Cent wrote: »
    To quote Margaret Mead: “Never doubt that a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world; indeed, it's the only thing that ever does”
    The key word in that sentence is “thoughtful”.
    20Cent wrote: »
    Very funny that those who do nothing mock them!
    I’m not doing nothing – I’m busy working. From my perspective, the people doing nothing are those sitting in tents.


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    #64
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    But they are getting off their backsides and doing something. Trying to make their country a better place for everyone a good goal imo. Taking part in the political process is not whining its the opposite actually its taking positive action to improve everyone's lot. Making your voice heard is very admirable fair play to them.


    And if the referendum is passed, will they fold up their tents and go away and leave the rest of us hard-working people to get on with saving our country through working hard and paying taxes?


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    #65
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    djpbarry wrote: »
    The key word in that sentence is “thoughtful”.
    Yep they are thoughtful, thinking of their fellow citizens very good of them.
    djpbarry wrote: »
    I’m not doing nothing – I’m busy working. From my perspective, the people doing nothing are those sitting in tents.

    Who's sitting in tents?
    You're talking about Occupy Dame Street that got knocked down by the Gardai in the middle of the night weeks ago. Lots of people work and campaign for what they believe in the two are not mutually exclusive.


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    #66
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Godge wrote: »
    And if the referendum is passed, will they fold up their tents and go away and leave the rest of us hard-working people to get on with saving our country through working hard and paying taxes?

    Tents are gone weeks ago. Is the referendum going to end corruption in politics and a more transparent inclusive system?
    As in the post above working hard and campaigning are not mutually exclusive many people can do both.


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    #67
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    Tents are gone weeks ago. Is the referendum going to end corruption in politics and a more transparent inclusive system?
    As in the post above working hard and campaigning are not mutually exclusive many people can do both.


    After the referendum, if it is passed, we will have had a general election electing a FG/Lab coalition and a plebiscite within eighteen months on their policies, what more do you need to tell you that the Irish people have spoken?

    Unless of course you are Dev looking into your heart to know what the Irish people really think or a fascist who thinks he knows better than the electorate.


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    #68
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Godge wrote: »
    After the referendum, if it is passed, we will have had a general election electing a FG/Lab coalition and a plebiscite within eighteen months on their policies, what more do you need to tell you that the Irish people have spoken?

    Unless of course you are Dev looking into your heart to know what the Irish people really think or a fascist who thinks he knows better than the electorate.

    Citizens exercising their democratic rights is fascist now :rolleyes:


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    #69
    Jululan
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Jululan


    Godge wrote: »
    And if the referendum is passed, will they fold up their tents and go away and leave the rest of us hard-working people to get on with saving our country through working hard and paying taxes?

    Thanks for the tip. Didn't realise the only way to save our country is to work hard and pay taxes.
    It is working really well.
    How people dare to protest!


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    #70
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Jululan wrote: »
    How people dare to protest!

    Would you back people who were protesting bad weather just because its "protesting"? The answer is no.

    Sorry to be harsh, but if people are moronic enough to protest making impossible demands such as "full employment" or the "right to work", then they aren't exactly going to get much support, except by other morons who equally don't understand life.


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    #71
    Jululan
    Registered Users Posts: 31 ✭Jululan


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Would you back people who were protesting bad weather just because its "protesting"? The answer is no.

    Sorry to be harsh, but if people are moronic enough to protest making impossible demands such as "full employment" or the "right to work", then they aren't exactly going to get much support, except by other morons who equally don't understand life.

    I won't be protesting to demand "full employment" or "right to work". Please, use common sense and look a bit further. Irish Constitution recognises, as well, the right to work and it doesn't mean that you can go tomorrow to your local government to claim your job.


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    #72
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    Ah, but I read the manifesto and the first few posts in this thread, so I have a fairly good idea of the IQ that will turn out for this

    Better hurry, it starts soon! remember leave your iPhone's, Levi's and other evil corporate bourgeois goods at home, and if you get peckish after try to avoid BK and McDonald's.


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    #73
    sarumite
    Registered Users Posts: 2,909 ✭✭✭sarumite


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    Ah, but I read the manifesto and the first few posts in this thread, so I have a fairly good idea of the IQ that will turn out for this

    Better hurry, it starts soon! remember leave your iPhone's, Levi's and other evil corporate bourgeois goods at home, and if you get peckish after try to avoid BK and McDonald's

    Thats just sound advice regardless of what you are doing.


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    #74
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,334 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    No but using your wealth to bet against the state and bring ruin upon normal people is fine.

    As long as you wear a suit and stick to the agenda, pb has no problem with you being an "activist"


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    #75
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    20Cent wrote: »
    Yep they are thoughtful, thinking of their fellow citizens...
    I doubt it. I really do. If they were thinking about their fellow citizens, they’d be doing something constructive.
    20Cent wrote: »
    Who's sitting in tents?
    Oh sorry – no tents this time? So they’ll just be sitting on their arses, sans tents? Well, summer is coming I suppose...
    20Cent wrote: »
    Is the referendum going to end corruption in politics and a more transparent inclusive system?
    How do you propose we end corruption in politics? Bear in mind that zero corruption is a completely unattainable goal.


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    #76
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #77
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    djpbarry wrote: »
    I doubt it. I really do. If they were thinking about their fellow citizens, they’d be doing something constructive.
    Protesting for more democracy, transparency, freedom and against corruption isn't constructive?
    djpbarry wrote: »
    Oh sorry – no tents this time? So they’ll just be sitting on their arses, sans tents? Well, summer is coming I suppose...
    They are marches not occupations.
    djpbarry wrote: »
    How do you propose we end corruption in politics? Bear in mind that zero corruption is a completely unattainable goal.


    Agree it is probably impossible to have zero corruption but a reduction is certainly a good goal.


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    #78
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    100's of thousands of people marched in cities all over the world sending the message to politicians that citizens are more important than failed financial institutions. All over Europe there is a backlash against austerity measures and the tide is turning thanks to people power.

    Correction hundreds of thousands not tens.


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    #79
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    20Cent wrote: »
    100's of thousands of people marched in cities all over the world sending the message to politicians that citizens are more important than failed financial institutions. All over Europe there is a backlash against austerity measures and the tide is turning thanks to people power.

    Correction hundreds of thousands not tens.

    Except in Ireland it seems. First the report on RTE about the protests:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0512/thousands-protest-in-spain-against-austerity.html

    No mention of any protest in Dublin. Did it happen?

    Now the referendum.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0512/gilmore-issues-warning-over-treaty-no-vote.html

    It seems the SF/ULA axis of ignorance is failing, support for the Treaty continues to rise.


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    #80
    RobitTV
    Registered Users Posts: 4,517 ✭✭✭RobitTV


    seems to be over 100,000 setting up camp in central madrid - http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/breaking-news/march-in-spain-over-austerity/story-e6frf7jx-1226353957938


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    #81
    edanto
    Registered Users Posts: 2,809 ✭✭✭edanto


    Permabear wrote: »
    This post had been deleted.

    Well, some of them (the ones that are more than a little cynical) sat at home and waited for their chance to be cynical online.

    Others, like me, did little or nothing related to the protests, and worked on other things that had to be done. I came to the forum here to see if people were talking about what I'd heard was happening overseas..

    And then in Spain, a whole group of people expressed their dissatisfaction. Do you think the debts of their banks will be foisted on the public?

    This is Madrid's Puerta del Sol earlier this evening (photo - Reuters/Paul Hanna)

    indignados-puerta-del-sol.jpg

    Permabear - you're a clever chap. Do you think the concentration of wealth in the hands of a few is a good thing for our society? Are you more interested in maintaining the status quo or changing it?


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    #82
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    20Cent wrote: »
    Protesting for more democracy, transparency, freedom and against corruption isn't constructive?
    Not unless you've got specific goals in mind.
    20Cent wrote: »
    All over Europe there is a backlash against austerity measures...
    I presume by "backlash against austerity" you mean "backlash against governments trying not to spend more than their revenue permits"?

    Oh wait, I know the answer - we plug the gap by taxing the bejesus out of anyone who earns more than some arbitrary amount, right?

    What's that? Ireland already does that? Oh noes!!!! But the government still don't take in nearly enough to fund welfare and public services!

    Whatever shall we do 20Cent? What do the protesters want?


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    #83
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Godge wrote: »
    Except in Ireland it seems. First the report on RTE about the protests:

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0512/thousands-protest-in-spain-against-austerity.html

    No mention of any protest in Dublin. Did it happen?

    Now the referendum.

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0512/gilmore-issues-warning-over-treaty-no-vote.html

    It seems the SF/ULA axis of ignorance is failing, support for the Treaty continues to rise.

    Yes the protest went ahead in Dublin. 100,000 people in Spain didn't make the RTE news on tv doubt the Dublin protest would be mentioned. JP Morgan losing 2billion gambling didn't make the news either, neither do most of the big unsecured bond payments. Wouldn't take RTE news as a barometer for whats important.


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    #84
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Not unless you've got specific goals in mind.
    I presume by "backlash against austerity" you mean "backlash against governments trying not to spend more than their revenue permits"?

    Oh wait, I know the answer - we plug the gap by taxing the bejesus out of anyone who earns more than some arbitrary amount, right?

    What's that? Ireland already does that? Oh noes!!!! But the government still don't take in nearly enough to fund welfare and public services!

    Whatever shall we do 20Cent? What do the protesters want?

    The demands are on the first page of this thread.
    France, Greece, Holland, Spain all turning against the failed "solutions" that are being hoisted on the people of Europe. Even the Germans have postponed ratifying the fiscal treaty. Change is in the air!


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    #85
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    20Cent wrote: »
    The demands are on the first page of this thread.
    No, a bunch of wishy-washy ideals are listed at the beginning of the thread - I've yet to read anything about how any of it is to be achieved?
    20Cent wrote: »
    France, Greece, Holland, Spain all turning against the failed "solutions" that are being hoisted on the people of Europe.
    Surely what has failed is the idea that governments can spend more than they can afford indefinitely?
    20Cent wrote: »
    Change is in the air!
    What's going to change exactly? Are the protesters going to form some sort of credit company that will refinance government debt at a low, low rate, permitting European states to continue splashing the cash on public servants and welfare recipients?


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    #86
    Permabear
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39,022 ✭✭✭✭Permabear


    This post has been deleted.


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    #87
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    20Cent wrote: »
    The demands are on the first page of this thread.
    France, Greece, Holland, Spain all turning against the failed "solutions" that are being hoisted on the people of Europe. Even the Germans have postponed ratifying the fiscal treaty. Change is in the air!

    I don't think the main parties disagree that austerity is needed in France, Holland and even Spain, the issue is growth and investing wisely to create growth. Hollande basically said that yesterday. Greece as we all know is a completely different kettle of fish.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #88
    Jonny7
    Registered Users Posts: 6,696 ✭✭✭Jonny7


    20Cent wrote: »
    Yes the protest went ahead in Dublin. 100,000 people in Spain didn't make the RTE news on tv doubt the Dublin protest would be mentioned. JP Morgan losing 2billion gambling didn't make the news either, neither do most of the big unsecured bond payments. Wouldn't take RTE news as a barometer for whats important.

    The Spanish protests are front-page news around the world, as was the JPM story.

    I think hardly a soul turned up in Dublin today and reading the beginning of this thread I can see why.


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    #89
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    K-9 wrote: »
    I don't think the main parties disagree that austerity is needed in France, Holland and even Spain, the issue is growth and investing wisely to create growth. Hollande basically said that yesterday. Greece as we all know is a completely different kettle of fish.

    So far the solution has been austerity only, now it looks like a growth package will be part of the fiscal treaty a good move in the right direction.


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    #90
    The Waltzing Consumer
    Registered Users Posts: 1,949 ✭✭✭The Waltzing Consumer


    20Cent wrote: »
    So far the solution has been austerity only, now it looks like a growth package will be part of the fiscal treaty a good move in the right direction.

    Eh, yeah, but a growth package has nothing to do with occupy or these protests. And to say austerity has been the only solution to these issues is nonsense.

    20cent, it's pretty clear that no one actually turned up for this protest in Dublin as even you have not mentioned any numbers, it was probably the handful of occupy guys and maybe that millionaire property couple who got evicted that they are best friends with.


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    #91
    20Cent
    Registered Users Posts: 8,934 ✭✭✭20Cent


    Jonny7 wrote: »
    The Spanish protests are front-page news around the world, as was the JPM story.

    I think hardly a soul turned up in Dublin today and reading the beginning of this thread I can see why.

    No its not. Nothing on any of the Irish frontpages about Spanish protests or JPM. Have the sunday times and the Sindo nothing anywhere about Spain and only one small article about JPM in the business section.
    Which papers are you talking about?

    I hear there was about 100 or so at the Dublin protest was working myself couldn't go.


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