how do emergency services find you

tacofries

Im pretty sure there's not but is there any online database that you can go onto, find your house and attach your name to it so that when you ring emergency services you can say the general area or location of your house and then your name and then they can find your house through the database. It would be awful hard explaining were I live in an er situation.!

Cork24

GPS mainly..

The Emergency Services can lock onto a Mobile phone..

other then that no their is no DATABASE that they can search your name.

i had a cop flying up and down the road once looking for a house..

tacofries

Good to know about the phone tracking. I would find it awful hard explaining to them where I live and even with perfect directions they'd still probably get it wrong!!!!

Thanks Cork

Zambia

Put big house numbers on your house and have the council sign post your street

timmywex

Cork24 wrote: »

GPS mainly..

The Emergency Services can lock onto a Mobile phone..
.

Maybe in America/CSI yeh*....

Its local knowledge using landmarks etc & good old fashioned maps. Garda cars/ambulances/fire vehicles don't carry gps by the most part



*im aware this can be done, but not for emergency calls, phone providers have to be contacted etc

deadwood

Since the mid 1990's, fancy joined up writing and hearing in at least one ear (known in e.s. parlance as the "phone ear") is a requirement for most e.s.jobs. Only those who are proficient in both, simultaneously, are permitted to talk to the public for emergency matters. Some people watch a little too much 24.

Cork24

timmywex wrote: »

Maybe in America/CSI yeh*....

Its local knowledge using landmarks etc & good old fashioned maps. Garda cars/ambulances/fire vehicles don't carry gps by the most part



*im aware this can be done, but not for emergency calls, phone providers have to be contacted etc

Ambulances do carry GPS,, brother is an EMT,
the friend is a Garda i brought a nice GPS off him before

Delancey

When I worked as an Eircom 999 operator we could look up a phone number and in the case of landlines get an address from that.

What was really shocking were the number of calls from Emergency Companies by that I mean companies that organise a response to panic alarms , etc. They would give an address in some townland but had nil direction to offer - seems they were happy to take the money they were being paid but couldn't be bothered getting direction to their customers homes.
Unprofessional muppets for the most part.

audidiesel

suppose the electoral register would possibly be of some assistance.

but the reality is, local knowledge and/or directions.

theres no general use database in existance.

as said, ambulance and firebrigades usually have gps. with the guards, you just have to hope one of us has an iphone with google maps

BrianD

tacofries wrote: »

Im pretty sure there's not but is there any online database that you can go onto, find your house and attach your name to it so that when you ring emergency services you can say the general area or location of your house and then your name and then they can find your house through the database. It would be awful hard explaining were I live in an er situation.!

I presume that you have an address?? That's what you use

Assuming that you are in a rural area...

Just like having an evacuation plan for your house, now would be a good time to find the road number that you live - it will be an N, R or L

Have a good concise direction to give the emergency from a local landmark. keep it simply - Irish people are notorious for giving out complex directions.

Hightower21

Cork24 wrote: »

Ambulances do carry GPS,, brother is an EMT,
the friend is a Garda i brought a nice GPS off him before

eh.... no they dont.
Mind you I have a smart phone. that sometimes helps. some of my paramedic friends carry there own gps. and half the time the address wont work on them.

999nobody

audidiesel wrote: »

suppose the electoral register would possibly be of some assistance.

but the reality is, local knowledge and/or directions.

theres no general use database in existance.

as said, ambulance and firebrigades usually have gps. with the guards, you just have to hope one of us has an iphone with google maps

No they don't, some off us bring our own sat nav to work with us or the trusty iphone.
Normally we're looking for the red bungalow after the left hand bend just before the hill

langdang

Invest in a massive spotlight OP

Not so good on a clear night but that's rare enough...

Hightower21

or the 4th bunglow on the left after the pump,
or the house not facing the road!

JuliusCaesar

Zambia wrote: »

Put big house numbers on your house and have the council sign post your street

I have been looking for ages for numbers in silouette which I can paste to the inside of the porch glass, so that they can be easily seen from the outside, especially visible at night when I have the hall light on. Can't find any, except ones which stick to the outside of the glass and thus are exposed to all the dirt.
I'm not an EM person, I seem to have to go - often enough- to people's houses for parties and end up driving up and down roads trying to see house numbers from the car.

This kind of thing but not so fancy, in case anyone can point me to the right retailler!

coolmoose

Cork24 wrote: »

Ambulances do carry GPS,, brother is an EMT,
the friend is a Garda i brought a nice GPS off him before

audidiesel wrote: »

as said, ambulance and firebrigades usually have gps

No they don't - some RRVs do, but ambulance's don't unless crew bring their own - or use Google maps - good ol' Google maps, if it wasn't for it the ambulance service would be driving around in circles half the time!

Best thing anyone can do is BIG letters or numbers on door and pillar of house, lights on, door open, and stand someone outside waving/with a torch at night. Or better yet, meet us somewhere obvious in a car if the directions are complicated and we'll follow you home!

coolmoose

Cork24 wrote: »

GPS mainly..

The Emergency Services can lock onto a Mobile phone..

Afraid this is wrong too in real-life Emergency Services land!

A2LUE42

Know of one instance where an ambulance had to wait at a location they were aware of(a health centre) while someone in the house where they were supposed to be going to had to drive to there and then have the ambulance follow them to the correct location. Same thing happened with a burglary in the same area, where the Gardai had to have someone do the same to get them to the house, as they couldn't find it, in the middle of the night.

A2LUE42

It was one of the main reasons that NAMA agreed to put up the missing signposts..

BrianD

A2LUE42 wrote: »

It was one of the main reasons that NAMA agreed to put up the missing signposts..

What missing sign posts?

All the post codes in the world won't help an emergency vehicle driving down lane ways in the dark of night.

Everybody should have a clear and concise address and directions to get there from a major route or landmark.

As the other poster says, if the situation allows it is a good idea to send an advance party out to meet the emergency services and guide them.

BTW what sort of maps do emergency vehicles carry?

ratracer

BrianD wrote: »

What missing sign posts?

All the post codes in the world won't help an emergency vehicle driving down lane ways in the dark of night.

Everybody should have a clear and concise address and directions to get there from a major route or landmark.

As the other poster says, if the situation allows it is a good idea to send an advance party out to meet the emergency services and guide them.

BTW what sort of maps do emergency vehicles carry?

Last night i went to a call in an urban area. The householder decided to come out of the estate to meet us. He parked his car on the road facing us with his headlights on. He was dressed in dark clothes and stood between us and his car. Hardly saw him in the glare of his lights. He may have thought he was helping us, but damn near got himself run over. Don't dazzle oncoming vehicles with headlights.!!

A2LUE42

BrianD wrote: »

What missing sign posts?

All the post codes in the world won't help an emergency vehicle driving down lane ways in the dark of night.

Everybody should have a clear and concise address and directions to get there from a major route or landmark.

As the other poster says, if the situation allows it is a good idea to send an advance party out to meet the emergency services and guide them.

BTW what sort of maps do emergency vehicles carry?

large estate with some of the internal link roads missing. Thank you Ger O'Rourke :rolleyes:

999nobody

BrianD wrote: »

What missing sign posts?

All the post codes in the world won't help an emergency vehicle driving down lane ways in the dark of night.

Everybody should have a clear and concise address and directions to get there from a major route or landmark.

As the other poster says, if the situation allows it is a good idea to send an advance party out to meet the emergency services and guide them.

BTW what sort of maps do emergency vehicles carry?

Ambulances are not supplied with any maps !!!!!

coolmoose

999nobody wrote: »

Ambulances are not supplied with any maps !!!!!

This is true, most crews will have their own book of maps, sometimes the local taxi companies will have a fast-finder type directions booklet that can be bought, otherwise it's a paper map of the city, Google Maps on your phone, hopefully some kind of directions and hope for the best!

Eru

Cork24 wrote: »

The Emergency Services can lock onto a Mobile phone..

Cork24 wrote: »

Ambulances do carry GPS,, brother is an EMT,
the friend is a Garda i brought a nice GPS off him before

Proof indeed that people who have friends who have a next door neighbour who once met a Garda cannot be relied upon for information

Mind you, I have a car to sell but that doesn't mean I took home a patrol car.

FGR

All the more reason to introduce post codes!

Imagine the ease of it all by asking the caller to give you their post code..bang it into a GPS and there's the house..!

irishrgr

They passed a law over here linking the phone lines to a physical address for emergency purposes. When you ring 911, they get the physical address of the phone line. Law was ammended to require the GPS tracking on mobiles, that took a few years to get the telecoms to do it, but it's more or less going well right now. If you have a VOIP phone, you have to register with the phone company, who are SUPPOSED to digitally link you to 911, but not always the case. All phone bills (land, mobile & VIOP) pay a monthly surcharge of $2.00 to fund this.

This worked well in cities, but the rural area was still very much a case of "down the road, over the hill and past the white shed..." So, law was ammended AGAIN requiring all local authorities to devise a physical address for all residents outside cities and start putting street signs up, even in the country. This has helped the ES, but the signs are still along way coming as it was not funded.

Our emergency vehicles are linked to the 911 system, so we have the GPS and moving map display. Once assigned to the call we get directions to the location even if it is just a GPS coordinate. When all this high tech kit goes down, we revert back to the map book and doing it the old fashioned way. Write the address down and look it up in the map and off you go.

A

Zambia

This is a Melways



Almost every Service from Security to Posties to Paramedics carry one in the car.

If in Delancys case you sign up to a Security service your Melway reference is established. If you call 000 the call taker will narrow down your Melway by referencing cross streets.

You always get to roughly the right spot then its down to house numbers.

That said its a back up now as all police cars have GPS.

BrianD

Zambia wrote: »

This is a Melways



Almost every Service from Security to Posties to Paramedics carry one in the car.

If in Delancys case you sign up to a Security service your Melway reference is established. If you call 000 the call taker will narrow down your Melway by referencing cross streets.

You always get to roughly the right spot then its down to house numbers.

That said its a back up now as all police cars have GPS.

Unfortunately, that map comes from a country that has a strong tradition of creating accurate addressing. Melways in Melbourne and the A-Z in London are bibles. Take a look at a Melways map and you'll see the exact borders of areas e.g. Carlton North and post code areas. In outback Australia, even remote addresses will have a street numbers. In Ireland have of south Dublin is in Dalkey and in west of Dublin a big chunk of Clondalkin is in Lucan. People are allowed make up addresses as they like.

Postcodes aren't really that useful for direction or location finding in Australia. However, the strong tradition of "good addressing" benefits everyone including the emergency services.

d3exile

maybe some sort of bat signal on the roof?

working in an area that has urban and rural aspects to it, the rural ones can be very hard to find, not helped by the caller "ah sure it's about a mile down the road passed mickeys house, you know mickey?"

people knowing the code for their road is a start, the R/L___whatever and house numbers or name clearly visible from the road! if we have those two it's 90% of the battle won!

deaglan169

as far as i know when you ring 999 they know what phone mast the call is being routed through so at least they can have a rough area if call drops

coolmoose

deaglan169 wrote: »

as far as i know when you ring 999 they know what phone mast the call is being routed through so at least they can have a rough area if call drops

nope, not as a matter of routine!

999nobody

deaglan169 wrote: »

as far as i know when you ring 999 they know what phone mast the call is being routed through so at least they can have a rough area if call drops

So we'll respond to the rough area of your house?

savagecabbages

999nobody wrote: »

So we'll respond to the rough area of your house?

I'd imagine having a rough idea of where someone is would be very useful for search and rescue type emergencies, or car accidents where passengers may not know where they are.

Hightower21

savagecabbages wrote: »

I'd imagine having a rough idea of where someone is would be very useful for search and rescue type emergencies, or car accidents where passengers may not know where they are.

from Wikipedia:

Range
The working range of a cell site - the range within which mobile devices can connect to it reliably - is not a fixed figure. It will depend on a number of factors,

In practice, cell sites are grouped in areas of high population density, with the most potential users. Cell phone traffic through a single cell mast is limited by the mast's capacity; there is a finite number of calls or data traffic that a mast can handle at once. This limitation is another factor affecting the spacing of cell mast sites. In suburban areas, masts are commonly spaced 1–2 miles (2–3 km) apart and in dense urban areas, masts may be as close as ¼-½ mile (400–800 m) apart. Cell masts always reserve part of their available bandwidth for emergency calls.
The maximum range of a mast (where it is not limited by interference with other masts nearby) depends on the same circumstances. Some technologies, such as GSM, normally have a fixed maximum range of 35 kilometres (22 mi), which is imposed by technical limitations. CDMA and IDEN have no built-in limit, but the limiting factor is the ability of a low-powered personal cell phone to transmit back to the mast. As a rough guide, based on a tall mast and flat terrain, it is possible to get between 50 to 70 km (30–45 miles). When the terrain is hilly, the maximum distance can vary from as little as 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) to 8 kilometres (5.0 mi) due to encroachment of intermediate objects into the wide center fresnel zone of the signal.[3] Depending on terrain and other circumstances, a GSM Tower can replace between 2 and 50 miles (80 km) of cabling for fixed wireless networks.[4]


So anywhere from 2 km to 50km!
Hello Garda 1, This is Bravo... Head out to Tullamore for that call. Its in or around the midlands are.

coolmoose

Even when we get the correct address anyway it can still be difficult. Hypothetical - 3am, someone calls for an ambulance - you would think that they would make themselves highly visible, after all they have just rang 999 for an ambulance!?

No way! Lights out, curtains pulled, front door closed, no number on house, nobody standing outside, while two lads in a van search in vain for a house number on adjoining houses. Shur that's our job isn't it! Only to be greeted by "Ye took yer time"...ah the good ol' public!

/sarcasm

savagecabbages

Hightower21 wrote: »

So anywhere from 2 km to 50km!
Hello Garda 1, This is Bravo... Head out to Tullamore for that call. Its in or around the midlands are.

I'll take the 2km when I've woken up in a crushed car on the side of a dark road. Also you'll have trouble finding one 50km cell tower in Ireland...

Information like this would certainly be more helpful than less helpful in many situations

RiderOnTheStorm

For your home, as mentioned already, I imagine the best thing to do is:

=have clear house number / name on door / pillar / gate etc.

=have pre-prepared directions . this should not be new to folk, as you must have had to give them to friends / relatives over the years. My advice is give directions that are the clearest & easiest to follow, not necessarly the fastest route or the rat-run short cut you take to get home.

=Loc8 code . If the ES use these, then go their site (http://www.myloc8ion.com) and find your house and register the Loc8 code. Then write it down and place it by the phone or door or wherever you will find it when under pressure!

=wait outside with house lights on, and wave like you are attracting a taxi, not like you are trying to give the odds at a horse race.

If you have to give directions to somewhere other than your home, eg you are in the middle of nowhere and come across a car crash / fire / accident / etc, then my advice (as a non-ES pro) would be name the town you last passed thru, and name the next town on the road. That will narrow it down quite a bit. If ES have to drive from A to B, they will surely find you. If you are off the road from A to B, then wait at the junction and tell them you will be there.

source

savagecabbages wrote: »

Hightower21 wrote: »

So anywhere from 2 km to 50km!
Hello Garda 1, This is Bravo... Head out to Tullamore for that call. Its in or around the midlands are.

I'll take the 2km when I've woken up in a crushed car on the side of a dark road. Also you'll have trouble finding one 50km cell tower in Ireland...

Information like this would certainly be more helpful than less helpful in many situations

I dealt with a case where a woman had driven from the midlands to Limerick to kill herself, family found note and called Gardai, we rang the woman and got BT to run a trace on the number, got a grid reference based on the cell tower which put her in one part of the city.

Dispatched a car and the woman was no place to be found. Through talking to the woman we figured out where she was, it was the other side of the city to the grid reference.

Relying on the phone masts isn't a good idea, it was only through local knowledge that we found the woman before she could do anything.

Edit: some details changed from original incident.

TylerIE

tacofries wrote: »

Good to know about the phone tracking. I would find it awful hard explaining to them where I live and even with perfect directions they'd still probably get it wrong!!!!

Thanks Cork

Bit late but just for anybody reading this in future or in case your relying on it...

If your mobile is your only way of calling the emergency services at home, or if you have children who may have to call 999 / 112 for you please have pre-prepared directions written down where you and all others, including kids, can easily get them.

We recently took a call where a person was driving in a rural area they hadnt been in before and crashed. Long story short they were lost in a field in the middle of nowhere, and while they were only 10 minutes from two large towns it took over 90 minutes to find the incident, as it was on a local road connecting two regional roads, and had limited coverage. The phone tracing gave us an area that really only confirmed that they were somewhere between the last village they left and the main road they were aiming for - which was a warren of roads.

Seperate but a pet peeve from medical calls - if you live in a gated complex or have coded doors or gates either give the Service Operator the code for the gates or get someone to got to the exit with a "Buzzer" for the gates and/or to open the door - or preferably both. If an incident is serious enough to warrant calling 999, and an Ambulance/Fire/Garda crew are after risking their safety in an emergency response the least you can do is make sure they are not sitting waiting at the gates / door for 5 - 10 minutes while they ring back for a code or wait for someone.

savagecabbages

source wrote: »

Relying on the phone masts isn't a good idea, it was only through local knowledge that we found the woman before she could do anything.

I know what you mean and you're dead right. I'm not saying we should rely solely on phone tracking, but it could/can? still help.
An example would be where a call was received reporting "someone in the water..." in Ballina was recieved, and fire&rescue were alerted in Ballina Co. Mayo. Locating the phone to even the 50km radius would have helped here.

drunkmonkey

Do the Breitling Emergency watches work here, if you set it off would somebody get the emergency signal, it broadcasts on 121.5Mhz in the states I think, its more for avaitors but could the ordinary man in street have one, is there a fine here for setting it off.

http://www.breitling.com/en/models/professional/emergency/presentation/index.php

Anything cheaper that could be used?

d3exile

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Do the Breitling Emergency watches work here, if you set it off would somebody get the emergency signal, it broadcasts on 121.5Mhz in the states I think, its more for avaitors but could the ordinary man in street have one, is there a fine here for setting it off.

http://www.breitling.com/en/models/professional/emergency/presentation/index.php

Anything cheaper that could be used?

Most smartphones have apps for maps and gps, would be great to see some way of sending that location to the dispatcher, like sending your location via whatsapp, afaik It can be correct to 15m or so, depending on your signal strength, but never seen it more than 100m off....

We're very slow here at adapting technology, it could be a very easy thing to set up, and useful given how many smartphones are around now...

Mr Simpson

d3exile wrote: »

Most smartphones have apps for maps and gps, would be great to see some way of sending that location to the dispatcher, like sending your location via whatsapp, afaik It can be correct to 15m or so, depending on your signal strength, but never seen it more than 100m off....

We're very slow here at adapting technology, it could be a very easy thing to set up, and useful given how many smartphones are around now...

In the states they use a system call E911 (Enhanced), simply put, Emergency dispatchers put in a request to mobile company for location. Mobile phone company must provide location, accurate to 300 metres within 6 minutes. It also has other requirements.

Wiki Link

999/112

Have a look at this. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056510625

deaglan169

Hightower21 wrote: »

from Wikipedia:

Range
The working range of a cell site - the range within which mobile devices can connect to it reliably - is not a fixed figure. It will depend on a number of factors,

In practice, cell sites are grouped in areas of high population density, with the most potential users. Cell phone traffic through a single cell mast is limited by the mast's capacity; there is a finite number of calls or data traffic that a mast can handle at once. This limitation is another factor affecting the spacing of cell mast sites. In suburban areas, masts are commonly spaced 1–2 miles (2–3 km) apart and in dense urban areas, masts may be as close as ¼-½ mile (400–800 m) apart. Cell masts always reserve part of their available bandwidth for emergency calls.
The maximum range of a mast (where it is not limited by interference with other masts nearby) depends on the same circumstances. Some technologies, such as GSM, normally have a fixed maximum range of 35 kilometres (22 mi), which is imposed by technical limitations. CDMA and IDEN have no built-in limit, but the limiting factor is the ability of a low-powered personal cell phone to transmit back to the mast. As a rough guide, based on a tall mast and flat terrain, it is possible to get between 50 to 70 km (30–45 miles). When the terrain is hilly, the maximum distance can vary from as little as 5 kilometres (3.1 mi) to 8 kilometres (5.0 mi) due to encroachment of intermediate objects into the wide center fresnel zone of the signal.[3] Depending on terrain and other circumstances, a GSM Tower can replace between 2 and 50 miles (80 km) of cabling for fixed wireless networks.[4]


So anywhere from 2 km to 50km!
Hello Garda 1, This is Bravo... Head out to Tullamore for that call. Its in or around the midlands are.

as some of the other posters have said i think it has an advantage, if i ring up and say " 3 vehicle rta multiple casualties" and battery dies, or they can at least go ok the call was routed off the mast outside monaghan town and they could dispatch gardai etc... last time i called for an ambulance the dispatcher said go ahead caller in monaghan and i was on my northern work mobile at the time with no roaming but knew i could make an emergency call.

elhal

I believe that the gardai in Kinsale have started using loc8 codes on the satnav to locate houses. no need for someone to be outside the house or providing directions
http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/community-group-donates-sat-navs-to-gardai-in-bid-to-stave-off-gangs-191719.html

anyone_local

speaking for the fire service in Munster only appliances with Mobile Data Terminals have GPS. And at that only some towns have maps unploaded to the system in Control which can give accurate locations. As for the sticks im afraid a Fire Icon just pops up in the townland and we are reliant on the directions given by the caller. It is therefore vital clear directions are given along with a phone number to the controller taking the call.

Potential-Monke

The other thing to note with GPS is that not all systems are the same, ie: the GPS on the Tetra handsets does not correspond with Google Maps coordinates, and i'm sure TomTom and Garmin have their own maps too which would be different to the rest.

999nobody

The main thing to note is that ambulance crews have to buy their own Sat nav, we're not even supplied with an old fashioned map.

elhal

I* have seen in emergency services forums alot of serving members are crying out for a postcode system such as the ones in use on Garmin satnavs. These bring a user within 5m of the house... excellent idea which, I believe, would save many lives and help the emergency services immensely.